MC's Wario guide. + matchups

[Jim Morrison]

Thanks for this guide :O
I liked it, it helped me.
Also, the Wario head shooped on the chars is ****ing awesome. Do it with every char <_<

 

[MorphedChaos]

Thanks for this guide :O
I liked it, it helped me.
Also, the Wario head shooped on the chars is ****ing awesome. Do it with every char <_<

Trying, but its hard. Put ZSS up, or attempted to. I SOO need help with that one, since my old way of approaching the matchup is pretty old.

 

[Jim Morrison]

Well, let's see how I can help. I don't play neither characters really good, but I'll just do some summing up.

ZZS has one major kill move, which is B-air. Wario needs to space safely in the air and stay in front of her. I'm sure Wario can do that. Other than that she can kill with U-air, but there's few grounded moves that have killing capabilities (apart from side-B). You should be killing her earlier, due to weight/power. Getting grabbed in this matchup is pretty hard because it also is hard to get hit by D-smash. She has a slow grab with a lot of ending lag so try to bait them.
Wario's recovery is obviously better than ZSS but don't underestimate it. If ZSS knows how to recover decently she won't get gimped. Harass her with short hops. When she goes aerial, stay on the ground, when she stays on the ground, go aerial. Her SH jumps too high to do anything to you.
I don't know that much about her other than that. ZZS has long range, try to work around.
60:40 IMO. But then again, I started posting here 1 hour ago.

EDIT: OH **** I MISSED MY 3000TH POST.

 

[PhantomX]

Pikachu's love to hit people into the air and then punish people who DI correctly. It's a habit of mine to dair as soon as possible after I'm hit by usmash/dsmash/whatever, and that often leaves me vulnerable for thunders, so be wary of that, it's better to not DI his upward moves (as they don't really kill) so you have the freedom to airdodge the followup. If he starts QAC for damage or randomly, just throw out a fsmash or a nair and it should hit him out of it. Watch out for early footstool locks.

Kirby - you are underestimating his grab game (he can grab us out of standing bites) and his utilt. His uptilt is really fast and really good, and it's disjointed (like a lot of his moves are, actually, which you said wrong... b/c he has super legs) and will block many of our approaches. While he can't get anything guaranteed after fthrow > utilt at low percents, they have the option to tech/read your actions, so it's not surprising to eat up to 40% for his shenanigans. Be very careful with your fsmash, b/c his is disjointed, so unless you are lucky and superarmor, you will lose, and if he shields or powershields, you will die to it, it kills as early as 110 or something like that. He has a pretty quick and solid roll as well, so bite isn't as easy to land as it could be, especially if they spam that bair. DON'T GET SWALLOWCIDED.

DK - his upair is amazing, be careful for upair OOS or just chasing... he can hit you with it after you airdodge b/c it's fast enough. Bite will only beat out his moves if you are near him... if he spaces or hits you in the legs while you're falling you will die.

ICs - Don't nair, they can grab you when you land during your landing lag, don't bair frequently, as I've been grabbed out of it before :\ Make sure your dair autocanceling and spacing is on point, don't upsmash or DACUS as they are laggy enough to be grabbed. You'll be doing a lot of fairing and dairing, and then waiting for desynchs. We WANT them to desynch, as that way it's easier for us to punish nana and harder for us to get ***** by grabs if we do get grabbed. As soon as they desynch, focus in on nana like a porn star on a rich guy. She has terrible DI, so abuse whatever you want, just make sure she doesn't come back. Their smashes are really quick and have deceptive range, so make sure to learn the timing/spacing.

 

[Panix]

So let me get this straight, according to your match-ups. You don't have any bad match-up's at all?

Theres something wrong here.

If that was all true then why is wario not 2nd or 3rd?

 

[PhantomX]

Give it 2 more days

 

[MorphedChaos]

Doing upto and including Peach tomorrow.

Phantom, I know we're screwed in that one, but is she worse the Marth?

 

[PhantomX]

Nah. I honestly think it's 50:50, maybe 55:45 in her favor (she's extremely vulnerable if she is high above us). It's just an incredibly boring/frustrating/annoying matchup, along with D3 and Falco.

 

[MorphedChaos]

Ah, ok. So that CG she had on us doesn't work then? Boy some of my info is outdated! But then, I've only fought a peach today since forever, and kinda owned them.

 

[PhantomX]

The CG works, but is hard to pull off and with good SDI and DI it will only chain like 3 times max, which means measly damage.

 

[MorphedChaos]

Ok, need proofreading Phantom, got Pit and Peach up.

 

[PhantomX]

I'll edit this as I get around to it.

Pit's upsmash sweeps above him, and his uptilt has almost no startup so it's a very good GTFO move, and can at least trade hits with our dair. They are more likely to use Fair to wall as it has more range and more consistent knockback (sourspot bair sets them up to be punished a lot), and they want the bair fresh for killing.

While gimping Pit is SIMPLE it is by no means EASY. Even if they run out of jumps, their Up B lasts long enough for them to go all the way underneath pretty much every stage in the game. Abuse ledge invincibility to keep them off the stage/edge (particularly with bairs), it works wonders against Pit. You can pressure him further by using an instant wipeout and having the bike bounce near the edge. Everything else seems fine.

 

[BSP]

great guide

 

[MorphedChaos]

New tier list, its time to organize my list. and WARIO IS NO. 3! Now to have him take the 2 spot!

 

[toshus2]

great wario guide
oh, and congratulations to Wario!
He is simply... awesome!

 

[Noypi_GjD]

Hahah, I've left the community for a while and I come back to find Wario is 3rd on the tier list. =) Hooray for Wario =).

 

[Admiral Pit]

After doing research during 5 matches vs Oli, a good Wario, I have discovered something new among the Pit/Wario matchup.

Now u know Pit has a hard time killing, and you'd probably wont die til around say 180%, maybe 200 if you got DI and if u were lucky. But here's what I finally have adapted to after testing it out during those Wario matches.
As u stated in the front, Pit doesnt have a grab release on u. Well, now I state this:

"Pit NOW has a Grab Release Option on you!"

When u r released into the air, Pit has just enough time to run and D-air you, which is almost always a sure kill at 170% depending on how far u r from the ledge. Even though it is hard for Pit to grab a Wario flying around the place, still be cautious of this.
You can avoid this if you land on a stage platform above you, like BF's, SV's. You're not safe when you're on FD.
This has been also tested on a Lv9 CPU to make sure this was right.
And you're welcome for me finding this out.

PS: Because the Pit community is dying down and is filled with mostly AT-addicted Pits (im an exception), as well as non-contributing Pits, I may ask for your help and tell those Pits about the matchup, and why Wario has the advantage.

PSS: We are currently discussing how well Pit does with Wario as his partner, located here, starting at post 36.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=233854&page=3

Why is it that Im the Pit that's like contributing the most stuff from their boards? Those other lazy good for nothings -_-ll

EDIT: I've been testing the grab release thing again, and have more options discovered.
1: The D-air as I mentioned before
2: Pit can walk over slightly til he's under u completely and Usmash u.
3: Pit can use Fsmash, but he MUST do it ASAP after Wario is released in the air. The first slash of Pit's Fsmash wont hit, but the 2nd hit will be fast enough to hit Wario before Wario can do anything.
4: Pit can just jump and F-air
5: Pit can F-tilt u, but he must use it ASAP after Wario's release in the air.
5: Pit can quickly do a reverse B-air sweetspot when timed right and quickly.

Special Thanks:
-Oli, the Wario user for playing me yesterday, started getting me curious after the Grab release to D-air I done to him, and for recording our matches with the replay hack.
-The Lv9 Wairo who was a brave Guinea Pig, No offense Wario Mains, for I second ur character. <3
-Phantom and Kown for starting a conversation concerning this matchup in the Pit area, further making me curious.
-The broken down Pit boards for not contributing much, so i have to provide more information to most of your dim minds, YET AGAIN! And yes, I'm mad at part of the Pit community, or do we even have a community, seeing how I contribute more than most of them combined?

 

[Metatitan]

^
That's a wifi wario he fought btw

 

[PhantomX]

Yeaaaah... Pit doesn't have a grab release. Just b/c you get one on a scrub Wario that's mashing out, doesn't mean it's universal.

 

[BMX]

Go ahead and try it against a Wario in tourney. ^_^

 

[Admiral Pit]

^
That's a wifi wario he fought btw

Im really tired of this guy trolling arond.... At least i TRIED to help is what counts, unlike those that dont help at all.

Well, Sorry about it, Wario Boards, for that guy up there trolls me often. I would request testing this in some manner to make sure I'm wrong, so I wont tell them lazy Pit boards, and ruin their minds further.
But at least I tried to help, u know.

EDIT: My mind has been changed about those grab releases, but will say that what I said will work ONLY if the Wario mashes out, or if the Pit somehow manages to grab Wario at the ledge or end of the platform (like that'll ever happen). If not, then Pit is doomed. Pit has difficulties grabbing Wario in the first place -_-

Pit still has that F-throw to Stutterstep Fsmash combo starting from ur 0% to 30% depending on how stale those moves are, and this one is guaranteed.

 

[Metatitan]

^
How was that trolling?

I simply stated that your "grab release" was a wifi thing and that your experience is on wifi.

 

[Admiral Pit]

^ Dont be fooled, he trolls and harrasses me for quite some time, about 6 months now, and again I apologize for him being around here.

So now Im concluding this to work only if the Wario struggles.

 

[Metatitan]

I haven't trolled you since December lol

 

[GOL | 482 | JSalt]

FLAME WAR!!! Just sayin...

 

[Metatitan]

lol na I'm not here to start anything. So yeah go to the puff boards and discuss nao

 

[MorphedChaos]

Please stop spamming now, this is a guide, not an argument. Take it over Visitor messages if you wanna argue.

Putting up the next matchup, does anyone have anymore pics of a character with Wario's face/head?

Phantom, need some "Do's" for Luigi, I only know the "Don'ts"

 

[Wobbles]

Should mention in the section on the bite that it's phenomenal for rising through platforms. Most people will expect the aerial and simply bring up the shield, or try to spot dodge. If you can get the guaranteed techchase hit you probably should (especially at KO'ing percents) but I find biting to be the best choice 75% of the time.

 

[Greg3527]

This guide is excellent. Helped alot thanks.

 

[MorphedChaos]

Good idea Wobbles. I'll also put up the next matchup later today.

 

[Steel]

hi rediscussing u

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=7708957

 

[Sushi3]

You wrote that Wario's bite is incredibly good. How does his bite compare to kirby's inhale? Kirby has more range, and is better for a succesful suicide. Although，I generally don't see kirbies use their b-move as much a warios do.

 

[Gindler]

Since this is a matchup thread I thought I'd share that I think squirtle is actually a wario "counter". Faster aerials with more range, being faster on the ground, and just his overall speed (actually seems faster than wario is). IDK just played a good squirtle and that's how it seemed, wario's just lucky he's heavier with better kill moves.

You wrote that Wario's bite is incredibly good. How does his bite compare to kirby's inhale? Kirby has more range, and is better for a succesful suicide. Although，I generally don't see kirbies use their b-move as much a warios do.

*sigh* not sure if this deserves a response. But any players above scrub level will not be getting suicided. Wario's bite is faster too.

 

[PhantomX]

Wario vs Squirtle is like 55:45 Wario. They will trade hits a lot if your spacing is on point, your aerial control is still superior to his (he can jump and fall faster though, probably why it seems that way), his dair is like Marios, and thus inferior to ours... and every time we grab him it's a guaranteed fsmash... and he dies at like 100 while we die at around 150.

 

[Masky]

..........

 

[Gindler]

Wario vs Squirtle is like 55:45 Wario. They will trade hits a lot if your spacing is on point, your aerial control is still superior to his (he can jump and fall faster though, probably why it seems that way), his dair is like Marios, and thus inferior to ours... and every time we grab him it's a guaranteed fsmash... and he dies at like 100 while we die at around 150.

Ah, I must be spacing it wrong. His Fair is just so amazingly fast. Ah, he jumps and falls faster plus he's faster on the ground so yeah that must be why it feels that way. Darn, i don't grab release when I play wario don't know why.

 

[PhantomX]

Squirtle shares the same weakness that Ness and Lucas does, meaning 10 frames of extra vulnerability on ground break, meaning free fsmashes out the wazoo. With our superior grab range and aerial speed it's not too hard to get 2-3 grabs per stock, which is basically most of their stock gone.

 

[Zigsta]

Squirtle shares the same weakness that Ness and Lucas does, meaning 10 frames of extra vulnerability on ground break, meaning free fsmashes out the wazoo. With our superior grab range and aerial speed it's not too hard to get 2-3 grabs per stock, which is basically most of their stock gone.

PX speaks the truth. He's done this to my poor Squirtle. XD

 

[Sushi3]

*sigh* not sure if this deserves a response. But any players above scrub level will not be getting suicided. Wario's bite is faster too.

It happens all right. Atomsk pulled one off at APEX, and Chu at COT4. It doesn`t happen often though, especially if the suicider is recovering to the edge. Situationally, it could be used as a pseudo-edgeguard by jumping off and attempting at high percents.

 

[toshus2]

Can wario regrab ness, lucas and squirtle out of a ground grab release?
I mean if a fsmash works...