MC's Wario guide. + matchups

[MorphedChaos]

Sorry Phantom, Copy/pasted your quote, I'm tired as heck. I'll edit it later if you want, or do you want me to keep it as is?

 

[PhantomX]

It's your guide, so it's your choice XD

I'm liking it a lot so far, btw.

 

[Ace55]

This is starting to look nice. Good work.

 

[PK-ow!]

So I herd u don't have a matsup guyd.

>_>

Yeah, so... the Ganondorfs are discussing Wario.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=202473&page=74

Please don't make me regret taking the initiative to invite you. You know... some character boards have taken cheap shots at Ganon in the past, etc.

I believe we could profit from your input on just what part your CG plays in this match (i.e., an analysis of how the match would work without it, then a consideration that 'adds' it in).

 

[PhantomX]

After the last time this matchup was discussed, I promised myself I wouldn't discuss with the Ganon boards anymore. Yet again I see people in there mentioning dtilt as if it were ever going to hit Wario :\ All I know is that I sandbag every Ganon I vs and still win :\

 

[MorphedChaos]

I need more for Marth, I don't fight him too often so I'm not sure if I missed something or not.

 

[PhantomX]

Credit to Kit for this picture, to show just how ridiculous jab's range is, and why it's not less than 8 frames.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3644/3405767186_2fe608f632.jpg?v=0

Figured you could resize it and stick it in there somewhee. I'll try to give your Marth matchup a onceover in a bit.

Marth:

Marth writeup seems pretty good, only things I wanted to let you know is that you can't hit Marth OOS if he dtilts it b/c it's a frame trap, his upair is great against us too. Spacing dairs or powershielding into grabs is key here. Don't try to follow up on grabs b/c he's sorta floaty so he can wreck you if you try. His weakspot is below him, so try to get him above you. Edgeguard with ftilts or dsmashes, depending on which move they like to use to get back on stage. If you're quick, you can also drop a bike on their recovery, which is a ton of damage and a possible edgehog. Don't ftilt if he's already on the ground, b/c his tipper just barely outspaces it, so he'll hit you with it if you miss.

Land those farts, they're crucial. Your fair trades hits with his if you're quick, and he can actually hit you out of backairs, so don't use them predictably.

 

[MorphedChaos]

Need A LOT more for the Diddy matchup. There are 0 diddies in my aria, so I only have online experience.

 

[stnapknah]

Diddy:

This match-up is more like 60-40, wario's advantage. Basically, if you really want to mess with diddy, you can leave your bike in the middle of the stage and this will completely take away his banana-follow up game since the bananas will be stopped by the bike. Other than that, make sure you make good use of the platforms. Diddy likes flatness, so don't give him that. If he's going to beat you, make sure he does it without his bananas. In addition, since Wario is floaty, it's pretty easy to grab bananas off the floor using nair/shield/z. In my experience, I believe it's more useful to just get the banana as far away from diddy as possible. Sure, you can throw it at him, but he'll probably shield it half the time, and if he doesn't, Wario doesn't have any great follow ups anyway. Therefore, either throw the banana out or toss it far away where he won't be able to dash attack over it so easily. Also, use bite wisely in this match-up, since it can really help. Dealing with 1 banana is A LOT easier than dealing with 2. If it's safe, go ahead and eat a banana as Diddy is pulling them out or eat them if he throws it at you and you're a safe distance away. Also, if you're going to be leaving your bike in the middle of the stage, you're going to get tires. Be very careful with these because Diddy can pick them up very easily, as if they were bananas. Also, watch out for his aerials--they'll beat yours. Basically, take away his banana game, then play very patiently and carefully. You should be living to 170% (at least) and killing him as early as 100%. If you land a waft before 100% and kill him, he's going to have a hard time catching up. I prefer levels like SV over BF against Diddy, since on BF he'll have an easier time landing his aerials on you, while SV still has a platform but allows you to keep your distance better.

 

[Gichan]

Diddy:

This match-up is more like 60-40, wario's advantage. Basically, if you really want to mess with diddy, you can leave your bike in the middle of the stage and this will completely take away his banana-follow up game since the bananas will be stopped by the bike. Other than that, make sure you make good use of the platforms. Diddy likes flatness, so don't give him that. If he's going to beat you, make sure he does it without his bananas. In addition, since Wario is floaty, it's pretty easy to grab bananas off the floor using nair/shield/z. In my experience, I believe it's more useful to just get the banana as far away from diddy as possible. Sure, you can throw it at him, but he'll probably shield it half the time, and if he doesn't, Wario doesn't have any great follow ups anyway. Therefore, either throw the banana out or toss it far away where he won't be able to dash attack over it so easily. Also, use bite wisely in this match-up, since it can really help. Dealing with 1 banana is A LOT easier than dealing with 2. If it's safe, go ahead and eat a banana as Diddy is pulling them out or eat them if he throws it at you and you're a safe distance away. Also, if you're going to be leaving your bike in the middle of the stage, you're going to get tires. Be very careful with these because Diddy can pick them up very easily, as if they were bananas. Also, watch out for his aerials--they'll beat yours. Basically, take away his banana game, then play very patiently and carefully. You should be living to 170% (at least) and killing him as early as 100%. If you land a waft before 100% and kill him, he's going to have a hard time catching up. I prefer levels like SV over BF against Diddy, since on BF he'll have an easier time landing his aerials on you, while SV still has a platform but allows you to keep your distance better.

dayum, sexy analysis, that's the **** I look for. but I heard that Wario also has a great banana game, think it was phantom that said that. but limiting the banana usage or separating him from his bananas sounds like a great option as well. Gonna definitely try this next time.

 

[Corrupted]

Well the match-up is way too stage dependent to give one number. Its basically the same as Dedede but add 10 points to Wario in the ratios. Learning their dirty tricks makes the match-up a lot easier.

 

[smashkng]

Wario has match-ups with the top characters! I believe Wario's best stages are those where it's harder to chain grab + Wario has great air mobility.

 

[VietGeek]

This seems like the right place for this...

So it has been a while and I believe a rediscussion with this shady man versus the little boy would not be so bad (sounded kinda interesting...err..but anyway!)

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=229513

^ Oh yeah, little boy = Toon Link.

A lot more little boys in this game huh? <_<

 

[MorphedChaos]

Done with ROB, now onto the next... anyone got a good ROB picture?

 

[PhantomX]

I'd lower Marth to 40:60, Diddy to 55:45, and lower rob to 60:40. Rob is definitely not one of our easiest matchups, and can space us really well with his huge tilts and big grab range. He's also quite heavy so he takes a while to kill.

Here's a ROB picture:

http://omegaro.deviantart.com/art/Lost-Soul-s-Gyromite-89675730

 

[MorphedChaos]

Alright, updated it for you Phantom, and that picture squishes the screen too much, but I found another. Thanks for the info, now for Lucario...

 

[Meganimal]

Nice thread but i really believe Snake/Wario matchup is even and no 60/40 Wario favor.
You should see the matchup thread in Snake board if you need it to be explain.

Like you said he is second of the tier list and i saw that many people underate him in matchups thread, i laughed to wolf or fox 50/50 with snake for example 8D

 

[PhantomX]

I used to say even, but the Snake players in TX, who are good, believe it's 60:40 for Wario, and I could believe that.

 

[smashkng]

Which characters Wario don't need to worry about grab releases? And can Ganondorf infinite Wario?

 

[MorphedChaos]

Diddy, Olimar, and a few others.

 

[kirbywizard]

Olimar Boards talking about wario match up

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=172222&page=104

 

[MorphedChaos]

Lucario is done, I'll wait for the Oli boards to finish their discussion, because I jsut hate how easily Oli can grab you if your not on your game.

 

[PhantomX]

A little random tip/combo that seems to work quite well, either for baiting or at low percents. Backair > pivot bite lands a LOT.

Also, there are two good edgeguards we have on Marth. If we bounce the bike straight up at the edge and grab it, and hit Marth with our ledge attack, it will actually send him back offstage, with or without the bike hits. Also, if they've already used up their second jump, and you space it correctly, you can run/jump off the stage and pivot bite, and since their sword has to face the stage to sweetspot, you MAY take damage, but you won't get hit out of bite, and you'll carry them down and gimp them, since they don't get hteir jump back.

 

[smashkng]

How huge is Wario's dtilt hitbox?

 

[PhantomX]

Can you get a screenshot of our dtilt beating out MK's dtilt? The few times I've tried it I have been under the impression that his dtilt has more range.

 

[Nefarious B]

A little random tip/combo that seems to work quite well, either for baiting or at low percents. Backair > pivot bite lands a LOT.

Also, there are two good edgeguards we have on Marth. If we bounce the bike straight up at the edge and grab it, and hit Marth with our ledge attack, it will actually send him back offstage, with or without the bike hits. Also, if they've already used up their second jump, and you space it correctly, you can run/jump off the stage and pivot bite, and since their sword has to face the stage to sweetspot, you MAY take damage, but you won't get hit out of bite, and you'll carry them down and gimp them, since they don't get hteir jump back.

Not really understanding the first one, the second one sounds super sexy

 

[MorphedChaos]

A little random tip/combo that seems to work quite well, either for baiting or at low percents. Backair > pivot bite lands a LOT.

For Oli or Lucario? Also, I'll try to get that MK screenshot when I can.

 

[PhantomX]

It works on any character at low percents, it's just another low percent combo/mixup to add to our arsenal. Backair won't knock them away almost at all at lower percents and we can fall straight into a pivot bite after it, and then followup with DACUS or whatever.

 

[MrEh]

How huge is Wario's dtilt hitbox?

Pretty darn big. lol

 

[PhantomX]

MrEh, hurry the fack up with our hitbox thread.

 

[MorphedChaos]

MrEh, hurry the fack up with our hitbox thread.

Take the Dtilt where it ends, cut Wario's finger in half, and add that to his model, thats about the length of the Dtilt, and his hurtbox is his foot.

Also added your tip about the Bair.

 

[PhantomX]

Ok, so here's how we get out of ZSS Grab Release Dsmash, tested and proven by the amazing KPrime.

Yep, it works. Simply holding back and mashing B should buffer it, no need to time anything. Just make sure you're biking away. If you bike towards her, you will end up falling off your bike and taking the damage but no stun.

 

[Nefarious B]

good **** but does this get you out of a pummel infinite? Like if they just grab pummel regrab. Seems like it should but I duno.

And this means that it won't get banned, so while the good warios won't get gayed I can still **** some newbies

 

[PhantomX]

No, it doesn't help you get out of pummel infinites (since grabs take Wario off the bike, even if he COULD pull it out you'd grab him off it), but those are hardly viable until above 50% anyway (or it would get mashed out of), not to mention incredibly difficult to time and can be botched by platforms.

 

[b0wzr!]

Ok, so here's how we get out of ZSS Grab Release Dsmash, tested and proven by the amazing KPrime.

Awesome.
One of my friends plays as her sometimes so this is grand.

 

[MorphedChaos]

Thank you VERY much Phantom, I put that in the AT section, and will put it in the ZSS section when I get there.

 

[BMX]

I was wondering on how to battle with Luigi due to the fact that I faced a guy named Boss and he is sick with him.

I lost, and I need advice. I consider this my worst matchup. lol

 

[ssbbFICTION]

I hate luigi..

 

[DMG]

You gotta be gay to Luigi.

 

[PhantomX]

I've never had that much trouble against Luigi :\

A lot of our moves will trade hits with his, but we kill him like 60-70% sooner. Just avoid the fsmash and you're pretty much golden (jab > up b doesn't work on Wario).