crifer
Smash Lord
btw Zelda boards are discussing DK now,
so give it a input^^
so give it a input^^
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Matchup Thread: WHAT TIME IS IT?
- Thread starter itsthebigfoot
- Start date
- Status
itsthebigfoot
Smash Lord
^ i got this
55-45 pika adv sound good for now?
55-45 pika adv sound good for now?
itsthebigfoot
Smash Lord
anyone have a preferred matchup they want to talk about?
crifer
Smash Lord
Luigi? ZSS?
ook
Smash Lord
Luigi :D
10weegees
10weegees
powuh_of_PIE
Smash Journeyman
Seconding weegee. I wanna learn just how bad we trash him on his own mansion lol
itsthebigfoot
Smash Lord
fear the weeg
cause he scares me, ko's too quick
cause he scares me, ko's too quick
ook
Smash Lord
Yeah, and he combos you
From 0-60% it's really in his favor cause of the combos... but after you get 60, he can't do as much.
don't get shoryuken'd
From 0-60% it's really in his favor cause of the combos... but after you get 60, he can't do as much.
don't get shoryuken'd
OmniOstrich
Smash Lord
I play luigi in friendlies a decent amount so heres my thoughts.
What to Expect
-Nair is an amazing sex kick and it leads into utilts/aerials
-Luigi's air dodge cancels on the ground really fast, and empty aerials can bait you in, while he quickly air dodges and does w/e
-Jab cancels air the staple of luigi's ground game
-Don't get stage spiked by the tornado during his recovery
-Fireballs aren't the greatest projectile, but luigi's air dodge cancel on the ground lets him follow up fireballs very effectively
-Luigi has a very good grab game
Kill Moves
-Shoryuken (grounded, the aerial one doesn't kill for a while)
-Upward fsmash
-Jab cancels into shoryuken Dsmash and Usmash, be careful
What to Punch
-Nair
-Tornado
50-50
What to Expect
-Nair is an amazing sex kick and it leads into utilts/aerials
-Luigi's air dodge cancels on the ground really fast, and empty aerials can bait you in, while he quickly air dodges and does w/e
-Jab cancels air the staple of luigi's ground game
-Don't get stage spiked by the tornado during his recovery
-Fireballs aren't the greatest projectile, but luigi's air dodge cancel on the ground lets him follow up fireballs very effectively
-Luigi has a very good grab game
Kill Moves
-Shoryuken (grounded, the aerial one doesn't kill for a while)
-Upward fsmash
-Jab cancels into shoryuken Dsmash and Usmash, be careful
What to Punch
-Nair
-Tornado
50-50
In my opinion is a 40-60 (45-55) for luigi. He can easily combo DK and he can stop each Dk combo with his nair (stupid nair...it stops our 3 utilt moves at the beginning). Luigi combo us easily until 65% and he shouryuken easily too (fat target).
But well, our bair can **** him and we can aproach him with tilts. We have too many range.
But well, our bair can **** him and we can aproach him with tilts. We have too many range.
crifer
Smash Lord
I lack of luigi matchup experience,
when I play a Luigi i try tp space good with bair and to gimp or spike him...
other than that he combos us to hell and back, and kills ridicously low,
upangled fsmash is broken >.< ok not broken but overpowered...
when I play a Luigi i try tp space good with bair and to gimp or spike him...
other than that he combos us to hell and back, and kills ridicously low,
upangled fsmash is broken >.< ok not broken but overpowered...
Drizzt6195
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Nov 1, 2008
- Messages
- 117
Yeah, need to be careful of Jab>UpB or Jab>Jab>Upb but his recovery is quite predictable
i've always felt Dk has an advantage on luigi, iunno. DK udderly ***** him in range, and its hard for luigi to punish cuz of his sliding nature. dk edgeguards lu pretty well (or at least can rack up damage off stage before he gets back) Luigi is floaty and i find pretty easy to land GiantPunches once u catch on to his SH mix ups.
granted luigi can combo dk up w/ sex-uptilts-aerial, or like d.throw-upsmash at low %, etc...Dk shouldn't have a hard time avoiding his f.smash or his less-than-par edgeguarding.
granted luigi can combo dk up w/ sex-uptilts-aerial, or like d.throw-upsmash at low %, etc...Dk shouldn't have a hard time avoiding his f.smash or his less-than-par edgeguarding.
Kalm
Smash Journeyman
Luigi can get into your danger zone easier than some characters can with crazy Fireball and Cyclone manuvers. If he does and he get's a grab or Utilt off, you're probably going to get combo'd until 60%. This really sucks for DK because Luigi can KO very easily. His shoryuken jab combo is much easier to get off on DK thanks to the heaviness and large size, don't be surprised if a great Luigi get's you with it once per match. Fsmash is easier to avoid but still a bit of a fear game.
The pressure will be on thanks to Fireballs and he can punish just about anything you do with a well timed Cyclone. The match feels similar to Toon Link, in that you have to constantly have to worry about getting hit by whatever and it feel like the opponent may never leave himself open, and you have to squeeze in momentum to get ahead instead of just waiting for for individual chances to punish.
DK has the usual advantages though. His Punch is just about if not slightly more effective here, same with Spinning Kong. Baiting a Cyclone approach and gretting it with SA will help a lot. So will Ftilt and Hand Slap. Only problem is that after a match or so a great Luigi will see through most of this, and you could end up with much less to work with when he starts playing more safely.
Even still, a few things will always be good. Back Luigi up to a ledge and you can predict what he does for success. Be very defensive and don't rush in without being sure of what you're doing, force him to slowly work damage in on you, don't let him get that huge 0-60ish combo in even if it means eating a fireball or two. When he's off the ledge you have a lot of chances to edgeguard, Luigi can't afford much when trying to get back. Most Luigi's recover like this.
Green Missle (uncharged or slightly charged, watch out for misfires), double jump, Cyclone for verticle recovery, another Green Missle or Jump Punch depending.
During Green Missle Luigi is very vulnerable to a Dair Spike, during Cyclone Luigi is vulnerable to a Fair spike. Work those in because spikes will rock his socks off. Also, while he's doing his double jump you can try to hit him with pretty much anything, Bair probably being the best attack. If he loses his upward momentum by having to airdodge at the peak of his jump, he loses his Cyclone recovery and can be gimped so easily its not even funny, same goes for when he just gets hit. He has to use Cyclone after peaking his double jump keep his recovery good, and if he gets hit after the jump his only hope is probably going to be a misfire missle.
Overall this isn't a great matchup, but it should certainly be in Luigi's advantage. I don't think anymore than 60-40 though.
As far as stages, I would be against platform stages like Battlefield and Delfino due to his comboness. I would want to take him to either Mansion, Japes, or Norfair to counterpick.
The pressure will be on thanks to Fireballs and he can punish just about anything you do with a well timed Cyclone. The match feels similar to Toon Link, in that you have to constantly have to worry about getting hit by whatever and it feel like the opponent may never leave himself open, and you have to squeeze in momentum to get ahead instead of just waiting for for individual chances to punish.
DK has the usual advantages though. His Punch is just about if not slightly more effective here, same with Spinning Kong. Baiting a Cyclone approach and gretting it with SA will help a lot. So will Ftilt and Hand Slap. Only problem is that after a match or so a great Luigi will see through most of this, and you could end up with much less to work with when he starts playing more safely.
Even still, a few things will always be good. Back Luigi up to a ledge and you can predict what he does for success. Be very defensive and don't rush in without being sure of what you're doing, force him to slowly work damage in on you, don't let him get that huge 0-60ish combo in even if it means eating a fireball or two. When he's off the ledge you have a lot of chances to edgeguard, Luigi can't afford much when trying to get back. Most Luigi's recover like this.
Green Missle (uncharged or slightly charged, watch out for misfires), double jump, Cyclone for verticle recovery, another Green Missle or Jump Punch depending.
During Green Missle Luigi is very vulnerable to a Dair Spike, during Cyclone Luigi is vulnerable to a Fair spike. Work those in because spikes will rock his socks off. Also, while he's doing his double jump you can try to hit him with pretty much anything, Bair probably being the best attack. If he loses his upward momentum by having to airdodge at the peak of his jump, he loses his Cyclone recovery and can be gimped so easily its not even funny, same goes for when he just gets hit. He has to use Cyclone after peaking his double jump keep his recovery good, and if he gets hit after the jump his only hope is probably going to be a misfire missle.
Overall this isn't a great matchup, but it should certainly be in Luigi's advantage. I don't think anymore than 60-40 though.
As far as stages, I would be against platform stages like Battlefield and Delfino due to his comboness. I would want to take him to either Mansion, Japes, or Norfair to counterpick.
itsthebigfoot
Smash Lord
cyphus, on almost every dk advantage, you argue the other way, on one of the matchups i know dk is not good in, you suddenly say advantage... ****
I have found this to be a rather even match. Luigi's recovery is highly predictable and easily gimped but DK can be combo'd to hell and back by the incredibly floaty Luigi. His jab, up B is ridiculous as well since DK is so heavy and large.
My personal opinion is that it is 50:50
DK can gimp Luigi farely easily and kill at low percentages with his insanely strong smashes.
Luigi can combo and kill surprisingly easily.
those are just my thoughts.
My personal opinion is that it is 50:50
DK can gimp Luigi farely easily and kill at low percentages with his insanely strong smashes.
Luigi can combo and kill surprisingly easily.
those are just my thoughts.
MasterCheeze
Smash Journeyman
Is there anyway to get out of a Jab Lock > Shoryuken? I die of that too easily. T_T
OmniOstrich
Smash Lord
That's seriously all you can do, sorry dude.Don't get jabbed.
itsthebigfoot
Smash Lord
you can SDI out at certain %
which ones?
Emperor Time
Smash Lord
Mid-High %'s? Anyway, I think it's best to play it safe with Luigi. Screwing up can lead to a world of pain since DK is easily combo'd/stringed by Luigi. Then again, DK completely outranges him
Can't call it....
Can't call it....
LuigiKing
Smash Lord
I just happened upon this, but you guys should probably ask the Luigi boards for input... you know... just saying
I play against this pretty awesome DK from Washington on occasions and have money matched him a couple times so just throwing it out there early, I only have experience playing Mr. Bojangles.
I think the matchup is pretty even for the most part, but unless DK counterpicks properly he is in for some big trouble. Bair is your best friend, seriously. Don't get happy with it on stage though, you're going to have to gimp Luigi (which isn't bad) to pull this one off. Bair ***** Luigi off stage due to predictable recovery, so abuse it. Don't use laggy moves or you'll die at 60%.
Luigi is going to camp you with fireballs and tornado when you get close on flat stages. This is what I mean with counterpicking. Fireball -> Nado is almost impossible for DK to catch up with, so you have to get wigi offstage. Hes going to combo you easily to get into kill %, then camp and wait for UpB or Fsmash.
To win this matchup you have to make very, very good use of your time above ~60% when he can't combo, and gimp well or you'll lose. 55:45 Luigi IMHO.
I play against this pretty awesome DK from Washington on occasions and have money matched him a couple times so just throwing it out there early, I only have experience playing Mr. Bojangles.
I think the matchup is pretty even for the most part, but unless DK counterpicks properly he is in for some big trouble. Bair is your best friend, seriously. Don't get happy with it on stage though, you're going to have to gimp Luigi (which isn't bad) to pull this one off. Bair ***** Luigi off stage due to predictable recovery, so abuse it. Don't use laggy moves or you'll die at 60%.
Luigi is going to camp you with fireballs and tornado when you get close on flat stages. This is what I mean with counterpicking. Fireball -> Nado is almost impossible for DK to catch up with, so you have to get wigi offstage. Hes going to combo you easily to get into kill %, then camp and wait for UpB or Fsmash.
To win this matchup you have to make very, very good use of your time above ~60% when he can't combo, and gimp well or you'll lose. 55:45 Luigi IMHO.
gameplayerj9
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Nov 11, 2008
- Messages
- 4
I agree with LuigiKing. I haven't had a whole lot of experience vs DK in the tourney I go to, but the few I have were not pleasent. Why? I wasn't prepared for the bair WOP off stage. It's terribly difficult for us to get around it with our recovery options.
Just a note, at least a few of us LOVE to punish any opening we can with a resounding Shoryuken, so I highly advise against a giant punch on the ground unless you know it will land. I mean KNOW. Also, I'm not sure on this, if you find a Luigi spamming the nado and you can see it coming, I think down b would probably trip him up.
Just a note, at least a few of us LOVE to punish any opening we can with a resounding Shoryuken, so I highly advise against a giant punch on the ground unless you know it will land. I mean KNOW. Also, I'm not sure on this, if you find a Luigi spamming the nado and you can see it coming, I think down b would probably trip him up.
daisho
Smash Lord
Down b is usually too slow.
DK punch does not have enough lag... but your point is valid with wiffed Fsmashes or headbutts.
DK punch does not have enough lag... but your point is valid with wiffed Fsmashes or headbutts.
gantrain05
Smash Master
smash DI backwards when weegee jabs, his shoryuken won't hit then, and if he tries it its a free smash of your choosing.
ZxChrono
Smash Journeyman
the weegee is too dangerous, i have a hard time with him everytime i play one and its most definetely in weegee's favor. the jab to shoryuken is one way to get you but be more aware of spot dodge to shoryuken which i have seen kill a lot more easier than jab(x2) to shoryuken. if he puts you in the air hes going to combo you very easily and the first time i ever fought a luigi i did not expect that out of him and lost a stock very quickly. the nado approach gets predictable depending on how your opponent uses it and i have seldomely shield grabbed them while they were doing it. i am not sure if i caught them in the middle of it or at the end of it but its something someone to try out. i would refrain from using down b and side b since those leave you wide open for a shoryuken. i find spinning kong not as effective on him, seems like he doesnt get hit by all of it and floats above you giving him a free hit on you. our shield is to small for our body so a high angled f smash would poke over our shield and hit us and that thing hurts.... 60-40 luigi i would say.
Darknid
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Nov 14, 2008
- Messages
- 449
From my experiences, his killing power is great, but against DK it's kind of evened out. Shoryuken is still delicious..but other than that he's just got F smash which you can avoid almost as easily as the shoryuken. Luigi only has one way to close a gap, and that is by using his tornado. That's his only way to move at a respectable speed toward you. Everything else he does can be beaten by spaced F tilts and Dtilts or by simple shieldgrabs. His range is some of the worst in the game and his projectile does NOT make up for it.
You may think Luigi has a good recovery, and it is fantastic..when nobody's trying to stop him. Bair him repeatedly..once he loses that double jump you're practically facing a melee quality recovery there. Put him too far away from the stage and he's done. Bair WOP works as well as a dair spike here. Anything to destroy his second jump screws him. Gimp him as hard as you can.
I wouldn't say this matchup is anywhere far from even..maybe 5-5 or at worst 6-4 weegee but just keep your spacing sharp and he can't touch you. He also can't gimp you very easily either with anything but shoryuken so your weight will annoy him even with his great killing power. You can do all of your regular stuff to him, but keep your distance. also, if he makes the mistake of getting to close to you after he's expended his second jump, grab him and toss him offstage low then bair WOP, easy gimps.
So basically, his range is really crappy, space him well. Your attacks beat his, keep your distance and you'll be fine.
You may think Luigi has a good recovery, and it is fantastic..when nobody's trying to stop him. Bair him repeatedly..once he loses that double jump you're practically facing a melee quality recovery there. Put him too far away from the stage and he's done. Bair WOP works as well as a dair spike here. Anything to destroy his second jump screws him. Gimp him as hard as you can.
I wouldn't say this matchup is anywhere far from even..maybe 5-5 or at worst 6-4 weegee but just keep your spacing sharp and he can't touch you. He also can't gimp you very easily either with anything but shoryuken so your weight will annoy him even with his great killing power. You can do all of your regular stuff to him, but keep your distance. also, if he makes the mistake of getting to close to you after he's expended his second jump, grab him and toss him offstage low then bair WOP, easy gimps.
So basically, his range is really crappy, space him well. Your attacks beat his, keep your distance and you'll be fine.
lamugi
Smash Lord
I play against some really good luigi players. I usually just space ftilts,dtilts and bairs as much as possible. At low percents you can Dthrow-Dthrow-ftilt to downB. It usually gives them about 35-40%. Donkey punch beats tornado and downb stops nado. When luigi's off stage bair WOP him it's really good!
Donkey kongs uptilt kills at like 140% on stages with low ceilings. I'd say the match up is 50-50
Donkey kongs uptilt kills at like 140% on stages with low ceilings. I'd say the match up is 50-50
powuh_of_PIE
Smash Journeyman
Unless he's Boss... I've personally seen him use down+B without a jump to recover... I was watching his hands, that **** is insane.
Yeah boss is awesome, I wish I got the chance to play him at herb.
ScAtt77
Smash Journeyman
Im just throwing this out there, but I think that Weegee's nado clanks with your ftilt and (im not too sure, but you might want to test this out) your dtilt beats out our nado.
daisho
Smash Lord
You can get the down B after the ftilt? Cant they just tech away?
Ive never tried it, just a thought.
i was cofused as hell when people said luigi downB to recover is only good when he DJs, because thats just plain wrong. i can get him moving up, when when i'm falling down. I've had all the practice in the world, being a Doc main in melee. I average 11 presses a second.
anyway..i'm tired of Luigi....i say 60:40, some say its in lu's favor, and most say its pretty even.....i'm fine with 50:50...i just wanna talk about someone else, lol.
how about Pit or Kirby. Those are 2 of my least experienced matchups.
anyway..i'm tired of Luigi....i say 60:40, some say its in lu's favor, and most say its pretty even.....i'm fine with 50:50...i just wanna talk about someone else, lol.
how about Pit or Kirby. Those are 2 of my least experienced matchups.
daisho
Smash Lord
We already covered kirby... I nominate pit.
lamugi
Smash Lord
they can but i normally wait and see where they tech, also if you do it near the edge of a stage it should connect at low percents anyways
itsthebigfoot
Smash Lord
pit, kirbys been done, just get used to the fact that he's going to float over you and don't get grabbed @ low % and you should be fine
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