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Matchup Thread: WHAT TIME IS IT?
- Thread starter itsthebigfoot
- Start date
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ook
Smash Lord
whew, sorry bout that one.
Edit: 350th post
what a way to spend it....
Edit: 350th post
what a way to spend it....
blakinola
Constantly Delicious
BACK TO BUSINESS.
Let's get on topic.
Let's get on topic.
itsthebigfoot
Smash Lord
anyone have an obscure matchup that they know inside out? we need a new character
Ripple
ᗣᗣᗣᗣ ᗧ·····•·····
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- 9,632
L2 SDI and you should have this match up in the bag
Four Leaf
Smash Journeyman
it does that to everyone.
itsthebigfoot
Smash Lord
ftilt those
![[FBC] ESAM](/data/avatars/l/92/92614.jpg?1365783210){kind=avatar}
[FBC] ESAM
Smash Legend
So...are we on bowser or pikachu?
itsthebigfoot
Smash Lord
ending bowser, i guess we're going to pika soon, if anyone knows the matchup
ripple, you know it?
ripple, you know it?
i am completely clueless about the pika matchup.
the only good pika i've played was Anther (when i used to play online a loooooooong time ago). I recall going evenish with him, on the first occasion...and on a later date we was simply comboing the **** out of me.
i'm probably gonna sit this one out, and just try to learn from anyone who actually knows this matchup better.
the only good pika i've played was Anther (when i used to play online a loooooooong time ago). I recall going evenish with him, on the first occasion...and on a later date we was simply comboing the **** out of me.
i'm probably gonna sit this one out, and just try to learn from anyone who actually knows this matchup better.
itsthebigfoot
Smash Lord
everyone look awkwardly at ripple, cause nobody else knows this
and if ripple doesn't, everyone bug ook till he goes to michigan
and if ripple doesn't, everyone bug ook till he goes to michigan
ook
Smash Lord
Well Anther is gonna be at the tourney in Chicago this weekend (MI always comes to those), so I'll try to play him there and see how it goes
umm... is there any reason why you should ftilt the thunderjolts instead of powershielding them? I played a few pikas before and I was ftilting, and it seemed kinda slow.
Is it just because you can, and it's badass?
umm... is there any reason why you should ftilt the thunderjolts instead of powershielding them? I played a few pikas before and I was ftilting, and it seemed kinda slow.
Is it just because you can, and it's badass?
itsthebigfoot
Smash Lord
mostly for badass points
[FBC] ESAM
Smash Legend
Uh...i main pikachu so i know what i do in the MU, so i can say waht to watch out for.
Ripple
ᗣᗣᗣᗣ ᗧ·····•·····
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don't f tilt thunder jolts, trust me. it adds lag to the f tilt and if they are doing it offensively they can attack before you can recover from the lag. just power shield them or jump over them if you need to.
Don't up b them either because if they don't hit the SA part of it then it just stops up b for some reason and adds even more lag.
as for the match up if you can SDI and you can pivot grab then will will help alot. I'll write more later
Don't up b them either because if they don't hit the SA part of it then it just stops up b for some reason and adds even more lag.
as for the match up if you can SDI and you can pivot grab then will will help alot. I'll write more later
itsthebigfoot
Smash Lord
whose favor?
[FBC] ESAM
Smash Legend
60-40 or 55-45 in pikas favor.
Pikachu is a nuisance for DK. He is small, fast, and can kill fairly early considering his size. He also has a devastating 0-~50% CG on DK, which is inescapable. Flat levels will encourage this, and pikachu will take advantage of it. After this, he will probably try to get you off the cliff and use T-jolts to gimp your fairly mediocre recovery. Beware for a thunder off the cliff, especially since DK's vertical recovery is one of the worst ones in the game. I would say get hit by them so that you are higher up and have more options to recover, even if you take 6%. However, beware of the part that actually hits pikachu, for it will kill you at probably around 75% at the ledge of FD.
If pikachu is ducking or crawling, a SH immediate bair will NOT hit pikachu, so you have to use your tilts more than bair in this MU. However, most pikachu's like to be in the air, so you have to adgust according to how the pikachu plays. At the beginning, pikachu's will ALWAYS T-jolt, so be ready to Power Shield them, and just keep approaching. Although DK doesn't have a projectile, it is still rather hard to camp him with pikachu, since you can power shield/ftilt/dtilt (i think) the jolts. Your killing potential GREATLY exceeds pikachu's, so pikachu shouldn't really be surviving past 105%. At about that %, you will most likely kill with a D-smash, which is your weakest smash.
Against pikachu, castle siege is a dangerous stage. The transformations and 2nd part all haev walk-offs, so if you get grabbed, you will be in a world of trouble. If a pikachu is off the level and charges a skull bash, you can go out and intercept with either a fair or dair. IDK how well grounded up-bs do against pikachu, since i don't really use them myself...which is a habit i need to fix. Ripple can give more specific info.
Pikachu is a nuisance for DK. He is small, fast, and can kill fairly early considering his size. He also has a devastating 0-~50% CG on DK, which is inescapable. Flat levels will encourage this, and pikachu will take advantage of it. After this, he will probably try to get you off the cliff and use T-jolts to gimp your fairly mediocre recovery. Beware for a thunder off the cliff, especially since DK's vertical recovery is one of the worst ones in the game. I would say get hit by them so that you are higher up and have more options to recover, even if you take 6%. However, beware of the part that actually hits pikachu, for it will kill you at probably around 75% at the ledge of FD.
If pikachu is ducking or crawling, a SH immediate bair will NOT hit pikachu, so you have to use your tilts more than bair in this MU. However, most pikachu's like to be in the air, so you have to adgust according to how the pikachu plays. At the beginning, pikachu's will ALWAYS T-jolt, so be ready to Power Shield them, and just keep approaching. Although DK doesn't have a projectile, it is still rather hard to camp him with pikachu, since you can power shield/ftilt/dtilt (i think) the jolts. Your killing potential GREATLY exceeds pikachu's, so pikachu shouldn't really be surviving past 105%. At about that %, you will most likely kill with a D-smash, which is your weakest smash.
Against pikachu, castle siege is a dangerous stage. The transformations and 2nd part all haev walk-offs, so if you get grabbed, you will be in a world of trouble. If a pikachu is off the level and charges a skull bash, you can go out and intercept with either a fair or dair. IDK how well grounded up-bs do against pikachu, since i don't really use them myself...which is a habit i need to fix. Ripple can give more specific info.
ook
Smash Lord
Ok most of what you said was good, but that's just not right. DK has a great recovery. Pretty much the only way to gimp it is with a spike or a footstool, but Pika doesn't have a spike (as far as I know...) and you can't footstool DK out of his spinning kong.
So... I think Pika is gonna have to rely on his KO power (upsmash, thunder, fsmash), not gimping offstage.
but other than that
[FBC] ESAM
Smash Legend
I mean it can gimp your jump and its a rather predictable recovery so pikachu can punish. Sorry, i was rushing and didn't put the right wording.
Ussi
Smash Legend
Adding to Esam:
DK is easy to hit with thunder due to his size. Yes he can avoid them, but he has a harder time than other characters. But he also takes longer to get to the usmash > thunder %.
Oh and this video is just funny: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6boOKl674kI (Anther vs SamuraiPanda) It says QAC > DK
DK is easy to hit with thunder due to his size. Yes he can avoid them, but he has a harder time than other characters. But he also takes longer to get to the usmash > thunder %.
Oh and this video is just funny: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6boOKl674kI (Anther vs SamuraiPanda) It says QAC > DK
Ripple
ᗣᗣᗣᗣ ᗧ·····•·····
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that video is old and panda is not that good of a DK
magikguy
Smash Lord
i think that was panda first week using dk
gantrain05
Smash Master
lmao, anthers crazy showoff pikachu, panda needs to learn2shield lol.
just as a heads up, the DK boards may be getting its own personal mod soon. not that all cleaning responsibility should be for this, say, mod, but it'd be nice for at least someone to have some power w/ sticky/unsticky, closing horribad threads, etc.
the UNsticky List: DK 101 primer, Frame Data. (just go to DK Info for links)
also, we need to not have so many useless threads. Lets upgrade the "DK Q &A" thread to "DK Q&A/General Discussion"- a place we can casually discuss ideas, without making a new thread for everything like "final smash timing" and "side B to B combooooo!", so pointless threads can be closed.
so i'm optimistic about this forum becoming one of the better character-specific, but i know we're always gonna keep this place a casual and lax place...cuz...thats just how we DKs roll. =]
the UNsticky List: DK 101 primer, Frame Data. (just go to DK Info for links)
also, we need to not have so many useless threads. Lets upgrade the "DK Q &A" thread to "DK Q&A/General Discussion"- a place we can casually discuss ideas, without making a new thread for everything like "final smash timing" and "side B to B combooooo!", so pointless threads can be closed.
so i'm optimistic about this forum becoming one of the better character-specific, but i know we're always gonna keep this place a casual and lax place...cuz...thats just how we DKs roll. =]
daisho
Smash Lord
Can't pickachu gimp DK really easily with thunder off stage? I don't know anything about the matchup since i never played against a pickachu, but it seems like it would be easy since once DK is in spinning Kong he can't do much to avoid it.
crifer
Smash Lord
actually I feel like its pretty balanced...
yeah pikachu has his tjolts but we have a shield and a jump button
but yeah it pressures DK... thunder is easily seen coming...
ftilt and bair are very important, you can even try to gimp pika with bair, dair or fair...
somehow I land a lot of sideB on pikas, but I guess thats bc of the players I play...
upB works good once u knocked them away with ftilt and punsh is really important,
if this little rat is jumping around u like it´s on drugs...
DK´s Kill power makes it even,
sorry for my bad english...
50:50
yeah pikachu has his tjolts but we have a shield and a jump button
but yeah it pressures DK... thunder is easily seen coming...
ftilt and bair are very important, you can even try to gimp pika with bair, dair or fair...
somehow I land a lot of sideB on pikas, but I guess thats bc of the players I play...
upB works good once u knocked them away with ftilt and punsh is really important,
if this little rat is jumping around u like it´s on drugs...
DK´s Kill power makes it even,
sorry for my bad english...
50:50
blakinola
Constantly Delicious
I've never had problems playing against a pikachu tbh. But I haven't played any pika's that are similar to Anther's.
The chain grab is def. nasty. And pika can chain at the ledge, racking up damage really quickly. DK can match that damage in like 3 attacks. I think the only attack that truly owns DK is thunder when DK is in the air, and when it's used to gimp, but that's it. Pika dies at like 80 from like fsmash, africa punch, prolly even dsmash. You can ftilt and bair thunderjolts.
For pika to win, he's gotta keep spamming and never stop moving. QAC keeps DK off guard. I think if you take pika to a level with platforms, you have the advantage. But I don't have pro pika experience so I can't call it anything but even.
The chain grab is def. nasty. And pika can chain at the ledge, racking up damage really quickly. DK can match that damage in like 3 attacks. I think the only attack that truly owns DK is thunder when DK is in the air, and when it's used to gimp, but that's it. Pika dies at like 80 from like fsmash, africa punch, prolly even dsmash. You can ftilt and bair thunderjolts.
For pika to win, he's gotta keep spamming and never stop moving. QAC keeps DK off guard. I think if you take pika to a level with platforms, you have the advantage. But I don't have pro pika experience so I can't call it anything but even.
Ussi
Smash Legend
dsmash won't kill Pikachu at 80% more likely 105%, with anther's crazy DI lol.. And the video I posted up was a joke 
I only see thunder gimping if it sends you into the the stage for a stage spike cause otherwise thunder sends everyone upwards. Sure Pikachu can do some damage with thunder though. I say tjolt does better for "gimping" purposes.
Don't forget Pikachu can combo fairly easy on anyone and DK is one of the easiest ones due to his big size. Pika's fair will rip through DK's shield since it shield pokes fairly well, with DK's bad shield he'll get shield poked harder making him even more open to combos since fair is a starting combo move for pika. Course DK is the heaviest character for a reason, he's made to tank all this. But if the stage permits it, DK might be starting off at 60% at worse due to the CG.
Edit:
Brinstar and Luigi's mansion are your friend against Pikachu. Pikachu fails at Luigi's mansion and Brinstar does not compliment Pikachu but compliments DK.
I only see thunder gimping if it sends you into the the stage for a stage spike cause otherwise thunder sends everyone upwards. Sure Pikachu can do some damage with thunder though. I say tjolt does better for "gimping" purposes.
Don't forget Pikachu can combo fairly easy on anyone and DK is one of the easiest ones due to his big size. Pika's fair will rip through DK's shield since it shield pokes fairly well, with DK's bad shield he'll get shield poked harder making him even more open to combos since fair is a starting combo move for pika. Course DK is the heaviest character for a reason, he's made to tank all this. But if the stage permits it, DK might be starting off at 60% at worse due to the CG.
Edit:
Brinstar and Luigi's mansion are your friend against Pikachu. Pikachu fails at Luigi's mansion and Brinstar does not compliment Pikachu but compliments DK.
MasterCheeze
Smash Journeyman
I know a bit about the Pikachu-DK matchup since I used to main Pikachu, and I did some test matches with Stealth Raptor when the Pika boards were discussing DK. I'd put the matchup at 50-50 or 55-45 Pikachu because Pikachu has a lot of nasty combos and DK's pretty much Thunder fodder. I'll give a list of random things to take note of during the match:
1.) Punish Skull Bash with spiking or a 10-Punch if he's charging at you, and be ready if he's using it to grab the ledge because sometimes Pikachu goes past it which results in about the only time a Skull Bash will connect.
2.) Pikachu has an inescapable Fthrow CG on DK, but I think his Dthrow CG can be SDI'd out of or maybe Up-B'd out of. Pikachu has a lot of other combos though like Dthrow>Utilt>Utilt>some Uairs or an Nair. That one's basic one but I'm sure a lot of other stuff can be done with QAC and whatnot.
3.) Watch out for Dair! It usually shield pokes when it releases that little shock wave on its second hit. Also SDI out of DSmash to thwart it's random trajectoriness. Oh yeah, FF Fairs are pretty nasty too, and I'm not sure if it's semi-punishable like Fox's Dair.
4.) Thunder is mean and DK's bane in this matchup. If you get knocked in the air, you can usually get hit even if you know it's coming because you're still stunned or you get seen through your Air Dodging. Also getting hit by Pikachu when the Thunder strikes his body can lead to very early KO's (maybe around 80% near the ledge which is BS for DK). I'm not sure if a 10 Punch would beat this though.
5.) Pikachu has no spikes (Uair doesn't spike like in Melee, and I don't think it has a tipper effect like Ganon's Uair). TJolts beat grounded Up-B's when they hit DK's head and cancel it when the two meet, so either shield them or Ftilt/Dtilt.
6.) I guess Brinstar would be more in DK's favor, but Luigi's Mansion is the place to be since it greatly hinders the TJolt. Watch out for Pikachu's jab lock though which can be initiated very easily with a Uthrow on the first floor (not many people know about it but if done perfectly it can take you to the edge for an Fsmash). Japes might also suck a bit since Tjolts can travel around the platforms.
1.) Punish Skull Bash with spiking or a 10-Punch if he's charging at you, and be ready if he's using it to grab the ledge because sometimes Pikachu goes past it which results in about the only time a Skull Bash will connect.
2.) Pikachu has an inescapable Fthrow CG on DK, but I think his Dthrow CG can be SDI'd out of or maybe Up-B'd out of. Pikachu has a lot of other combos though like Dthrow>Utilt>Utilt>some Uairs or an Nair. That one's basic one but I'm sure a lot of other stuff can be done with QAC and whatnot.
3.) Watch out for Dair! It usually shield pokes when it releases that little shock wave on its second hit. Also SDI out of DSmash to thwart it's random trajectoriness. Oh yeah, FF Fairs are pretty nasty too, and I'm not sure if it's semi-punishable like Fox's Dair.
4.) Thunder is mean and DK's bane in this matchup. If you get knocked in the air, you can usually get hit even if you know it's coming because you're still stunned or you get seen through your Air Dodging. Also getting hit by Pikachu when the Thunder strikes his body can lead to very early KO's (maybe around 80% near the ledge which is BS for DK). I'm not sure if a 10 Punch would beat this though.
5.) Pikachu has no spikes (Uair doesn't spike like in Melee, and I don't think it has a tipper effect like Ganon's Uair). TJolts beat grounded Up-B's when they hit DK's head and cancel it when the two meet, so either shield them or Ftilt/Dtilt.
6.) I guess Brinstar would be more in DK's favor, but Luigi's Mansion is the place to be since it greatly hinders the TJolt. Watch out for Pikachu's jab lock though which can be initiated very easily with a Uthrow on the first floor (not many people know about it but if done perfectly it can take you to the edge for an Fsmash). Japes might also suck a bit since Tjolts can travel around the platforms.
Good **** this weekend, Cyphus. Getting killed in 30 seconds was jarring as hell XD
SamuraiPanda
Smash Hero
- Joined
- May 22, 2006
- Messages
- 6,924
Indeed, that was after a few days of using him, before I could play friendlies with Anther at my place to test the waters. Other videos from that tourney show that my DK could hold his own (I used straight DK for the hell of it until the last game against Anther).
Yeah, back in the day when I used DK all I did was Fsmash spam and people would get hit by it. I <3 his Fsmash.
Azuraith
Smash Apprentice
I think DK wins against pikachu probably 55-45 or 60-40, any comments?
daisho
Smash Lord
Random...
Id say it is 50 50.
DK can outrange any of pikachus move easily with his tilts which are fast strong and have good follow ups. He can also kill early with dsmash and punch, prob won't hit with fsmash unless hes stupid. I don't think Pickachu can really do anything on the ground. If he gets a grab at low percents then DK is screwed. Dthrow combos with pikachu pwn.
Airially DK ***** pickachu with his bair but if for some reason Pickachu is in front of DK pika can pretty much do anything he wants.
Gimping is by far Pika's favor. He can use thunder, thats enough. DK can get a gimp once in a while but id say its rare.
Azuraith
Smash Apprentice
yea was pretty random, lol. hmmm i agree in some ways but id say its more 55-45. the fact that pikachu doesnt have a spike helps dk alot on his recovery, because he might get gimped but many recover anyway with good reaction. DK does **** on the ground and probably shouldnt get grabed if you use down B properly.
even if pikachu is in front of DK for some reason i still think dk could at least do something to stop him. his Utilt can be good for a quick cancel of an air attack from pikachu and i guess his Nair is also good if Pikachu is in front of him.
daisho
Smash Lord
Down b doesnt help at all in avoiding grabs. Pika can just run and and grab you. By the time you recognize this and down b youve been grabbed. If you anticipate it and do down b early he will just jump and then nair or fair you.
Pika doesn't need a spike, his gimping game is still amazing. DK should almost never recover against a good Pika (if DK needs to use his up B).
Also forgot to mention, Pikas nair can kill at high percents and set up for gimps at lower percents.
Pika doesn't need a spike, his gimping game is still amazing. DK should almost never recover against a good Pika (if DK needs to use his up B).
Also forgot to mention, Pikas nair can kill at high percents and set up for gimps at lower percents.
Azuraith
Smash Apprentice
this is true but i still think down B can be used quite commonly to counter grabs and dash attack combos.
simply for that fact that if u use down b in prediction it will most likely hit, and if they use an air attack and you know they will(mind games) you can easily block and grab or block and do some sort of combo/ attack.
if anything pikachu vs DK is a 55-45 or 50-50 easily
simply for that fact that if u use down b in prediction it will most likely hit, and if they use an air attack and you know they will(mind games) you can easily block and grab or block and do some sort of combo/ attack.
if anything pikachu vs DK is a 55-45 or 50-50 easily
itsthebigfoot
Smash Lord
downb helps a lot in avoiding grabs, just time it well and space better
Azuraith
Smash Apprentice
yea, i agree with that. down B can be used in a lot of situations especially for mind games (forcing enemys into the air) so against pikachu it can be really good considering DK's weight he can be CG at low % against pikachu.
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