Match-Up Discussion #7! Diddy Kong

[Xisin]

Guess I'll bite.

Match up is about momentum, if diddy gets it and your in a nana lock odds are you will have issues getting out, but thats really the only time he will have an upper hand on marth though out the game. Glide tossing isnt worthless imo its just that.. you shouldnt glide toss into a naner... thats silly, glide toss to DB or glide toss to SB and mix it up with empty glidetossing as well as glide toss to throw said nana up at times. Marths glide toss is really just too good not to use and it sets up tremendously well.

while spacing with fairs you can catch the bananas, Something ive noticed as of late is diddy will really rack up damage on you by beaning you with bananas if you're not too careful. You can DI out of diddy's fsmash (hit by the first fold not by the second fold.) his up smash isnt anything too troublesome, that leaves his dsmash... which i think is his most annoying move, as players tend to use it in such a manner they roll behind you and hit dsmash... such habits gets on my nerves.

Diddy has a really good grab game, and i get grabbed alot by diddy's more so than most characters. He will try to throw you off the stage frequently, then relentlessly spam you with left over monkey food so you take chip damage and/or die from gimp. Occasionally diddy will get brave and chase you off stage with bairs a spike or if you're particualarly predicatable a rocket pack spike.

Marth plays the game by preventing diddy from his banana control, then spacing with fairs and dtilts.Punish stupid mistakes with kill moves, if he dash attacks to pick up a banana (and he will.) block it and up-b. or shield grab, whatever your fancy is. nair pretty much beats out his over b options if you space it correctly. Both marth and diddy are easy ledgehogs, if you see a diddy chargin up rockets wait til it launches, ledge hog and watch as he helplessly bounces off the stage.

still 60:40 Marth, unless the marth cant keep nanas out of diddy's hands... which can be reasonably done at any level.

 

[legion598]

so does marths Fair increase his banana grab range? cuz it looks like it does, also marths glide toss is made of delicious cake

 

[Pr0phetic]

so does marths Fair increase his banana grab range? cuz it looks like it does, also marths glide toss is made of delicious cake

Marth's glide toss is like a steam roller that has a sticker on the wheel that says sex. Anyway, I don't know how to explain it right now (tired johns) but any aerial has a certain area where Marth will grab it, and it is able to grab farther then an on ground pick up.

 

[Pierce7d]

65-35 in marth's favor. Marth catches everything, he catches them alot if you keep spamming SH aerials. Diddy cannot compete with marth's zoning and spacing, so he has to take risks at poking attacks against it constantly. Marth gimps diddy with the counter stage spike and just fairs to push diddy away from the stage and then bair his rocket barrels. Glide tossing is useless in this matchup, good diddys are expecting it. Just watch out for diddy's bairs, fairs, and ftilt and you're good.

This. If you're glide tossing, you're doing it wrong noobs. Chrome Pirate is a top level Diddy player, and I'm able to beat him pretty consistently WITHOUT Glide tossing. Diddy loses to Marth without bananas, so most of the time, just get rid of them. Also, most Diddy players will try and hit you with a rocket barrel for throwing bananas at them. Pay attention, and don't always throw bananas immediate.

I USED TO GET WRECKED BY DIDDY BECAUSE I USED TO THINK THAT IF I HAD A BANANA I COULD HIDE IN MY SHIELD AND THEN GLIDETOSS AWAY AND IT WAS OMGSONORCALPRO.

This is a lie. You lose the ability to aerial. You want to catch bananas to gain control of them, but you rarely want to glide toss them, and you want to have your sword handy more often than a stupid banana peel. What are you, a monkey? Play smart. Course, if you're pro, I think you can hold down the attack button, and when you use a different attack button, you'll attack instead of throwing the banana. I'm not sure though, I'll try to remember to check later.

Marth's toss animation is pitifully slow, so please get rid of the bananas intelligently. Utoss is advised only if you aren't close.

Remember on Diddy you have TWO fthrows to Fsmash at 0. You also have fthrow, fthrow, Dair on him like Falco, but any Diddy worth his weight in salt will recover from that, so stick to fsmash for the damage.

If Diddy drops from the edge and SideB's away to pluck bananas, please drop and gimp him with Fair, and then edgeguard. There's no reason to leave this idiotic action unpunished, and top Diddy players like Ninjalink do it all the time, so pay attention. Make sure you're edgeguarding properly as well (I'm not going to go over edgeguarding with Marth in a match-up thread.

If you have a banana and Diddy is off stage, you can combo throw to Fair. If they're recovering from low and you have a banana, throw it near the ledge to try and gimp, then grab the ledge. I gimp Diddy as I do spacies, with Side B a lot. Also, he's fairly easy to Meteor Smash once you get some experience under your belt.

Be wary of Diddy's Fair. It's stupidly fast and has awesome priority and range. Treat Diddy's ftilt like Wario's (don't get hit by it.)

Don't get ***** by Peanut Spam. Perfect shield or catch and throw. THESE are good for glide tossing sometimes, because it's more unexpected.

TL;DR - Stop acting dumb and worshipping Glide Toss. You're going to get *****. I only lide toss maybe 2-5 times a match. I think it's 60-40.

 

[Inui]

65/35 my balls. Diddy is too good to have a match-up that bad. 60/40 is as far as I'd go.

Chrome, if it was that bad, NEO would have threestocked you instead of the set being so close.

 

[Pierce7d]

65/35 my balls. Diddy is too good to have a match-up that bad. 60/40 is as far as I'd go.

Chrome, if it was that bad, NEO would have threestocked you instead of the set being so close.

qft

I wouldn't lose to you (Chrome Pirate) ever after the first 5 games if it was 65-35. Considering our skill level is probably equal, with you probably being slightly more technical, and me being slightly smarter, if it was 65-35, you wouldn't be able to beat me with Diddy, which you have done before.

Though, in all fairness, I probably won around 65% of our matches . . . but there were lots of times you could have played smarter, as I depicted to you before you left.

 

[_Kadaj_]

it's 65:35

on a side note don't try to counter his up b it will only get you ***** in the end.
(to the ones saying up b is good)

 

[Nitrix]

It is 60-40. 65-35 is way too crazy.


I've played and beaten decent Marths. Diddy has to work much harder than usual, but it is possible.

Against most diddy's running start at them from the get-go is extremely useful. This puts them on the defense first, and that is to your advantage. Not to say Diddy is bad at defense but his offense is a quicker route to connecting to a streak as such eliminate that option. Running right at them also prevents them from pulling out both bananas without risk. Against Diddy the difference between one banana and two is enormous.

Rushing against a Diddy isn't always smart. Diddy Kongs know that you want to interrupt them. Sometimes we won't even pull out bananas at the beginning and attack your bad approach instad. Sometimes we will jump off the stage and spawn bananas so they land on the stage. Sometimes we will turn around + double jump in the air while spawning bananas so they land on top of the rusher.

My point is that there are tons of possibilities and rushing is a very predictable and anticipated tactic.

 

[Odigo]

My point is that there are tons of possibilities and rushing is a very predictable and anticipated tactic.

Likewise for Marth, especially since he's a character with an answer to every situation.

Diddy might get rushed to see how he would react and to try to bait out the nanerz. Sometimes Diddy's get rushed just so they can't setup nanerz how they want to; whether or not the nanerz are out on the field doesn't matter as much as whether there's control. And control is really important in this match up.

It's really about keeping your sword in Diddy's face and not giving him any breathing room or time to relax.

60-40 doesn't sound unreasonable though.

 

[ADHD]

>_< marth is the only matchup along with luigi that gives me as much trouble.

 

[ChaosKnight]

i love facing diddys i destroy most :o

 

[Doomblaze]

If you want to hold a banana when your doing an aerial all you have to do it press Z to drop it before you Fair then you'll pick it up again when you fair, -you have to use A to fair though- basically you drop and then pick up the banana while your doing an aerial which makes you potentially deadlier (although much more predictable) since you are safer from the bottom because of the banana, and if you space your fair in the first place predictability should not be your prime concern.

Im just putting it out there, its what link players i face do when they have a bomb and they want to Uair me or something and it works fine with marth. This does not mean that holding onto a banana is the best option, it just gives you another option if you're feeling like holding onto the banana so they cant use it.

 

[t3h n00b]

I thought you could C-stick aerial, but maybe I'm wrong. Also, if you hold down A after catching a banana, you can smash with the C-stick without dropping it, but it's awkward. Like someone said before, you're usually better off just throwing the banana immediately.

 

[Kishin]

He ***** you in the face if you're not careful. You better hope to fight him in a stage with platforms. Although, since Marth has the longest backwards glide toss, if you manage to get a banana then you can glide toss it into a tipped F-smash combo at whatever percent(s). Bananas are gay.

 

[BBoyindo]

I thought you could C-stick aerial, but maybe I'm wrong. Also, if you hold down A after catching a banana, you can smash with the C-stick without dropping it, but it's awkward. Like someone said before, you're usually better off just throwing the banana immediately.

I thought of this as well, after seeing that link video from izaw again, but there's one thing. Marth's smashers WILL get punishes when shield or misspaced, and spacing it while holding a is a *****.

But now i think of it i know a great trick actually.
You know when Diddy is holding a banana, and you tilt the control stick diagonally downward and press A, you will use a down-tilt instead of a throw. Imagine that with Marth. With Diddy, it's just a gimmick, but Marth's D-tilt is one of his best moves.
You D-tilt, he spotdodges, you throw the banana and you have a free move of choice. He rolls away, banana throw. He rolls towards, Dancing blade, or throw your banana downwards. You get the point.
And what if we combine this with short-hop aerials with a banana in your hand, and still all your special moves. If you're good enough, you could basically play your usual game, but then with the banana still in your hand. Being able to throw it at the best moment possible. Where you would normally dancing blade where a smash would not be safe, you can simply throw the banana to a safe smash!
And also, Marth has a big variety of Glide tosses.

 

[t3h n00b]

One thing with that though, every time you do an A button/C stick move, you would have to drop the banana and hold A again, or hold A down while firing the peanut gun, it's explained way better on the Diddy forums. Basically, you have to reset the holding action every time or something like that. Those ideas would still likely work well, but it would be tough to do (for me at least).

 

[KramCAKEs]

i like glidetoss banana to tip lol

 

[Nefarious B]

Just mix up with DB or shield breaker for a couple hits and then throw the bananna into a tipper... works well for me.

 

[Pr0phetic]

(8:18:39 PM): well people always forget that Diddy is so well played, he telegraphs himself now
(8:19:13 PM): if he has two nanas its obvious its a temp trap, bait it out. when he is not set up, trap him back. dont full on aerial rush unless its a trap
(8:19:24 PM): diddy actually is DB and fair bait once you ahve the flow
(8:19:38 PM): if you dont do not be afraid to sit back and wait
(8:20:16 PM): nana into grabs and DB catch Diddy alot, but if you strike shiled you put yoruself back into a trap
(8:20:35 PM): only press on when yu have the advantage
(8:20:45 PM): ima go rewatch my matches and ill tell you more as I remember
(8:21:08 PM): oh one more thing
(8:21:16 PM): you HAVE to remember Diddy is never flawless
he just has better punishments, mistajkes must be capitilized on, your playign a human so the more fancy a Diddy is the easier it actually is to trao them
(8:21:18 PM): cause Diddy is all about flow

(8:23:52 PM): one nana is actually fair ground
(8:23:52 PM): you can easily catch that nana and turn it against diddy
(8:24:11 PM): plus your getup options can get you around any traps
(8:24:17 PM): oh and UPBBBBB lol
(8:27:09 PM): thats why I always press the offense when theres one nana
(8:27:15 PM): Diddy cant do much
(8:27:22 PM): that you wont be able to know anyway

Thought this would be helpful, just some stuff I learned after playing GDX

 

[Blacknight99923]

good stuff but i would rather we make a new thread then post this in there

 

[Pr0phetic]

Right now this is the best place to put it as this stuff is cumulative.

 

[Player-3]

you can also up b after the side b kick you if you're at mid-low %s, even if they do the lagless version

 

[Pr0phetic]

true, and pardon the spelling in that, my keyboard is lame lol

 

[Blacknight99923]

would brinstar be the best stage to CP diddy on? assuming he won't MK cp us

 

[Pr0phetic]

Yup, you can really gay him there. I still like BF and Lylat though, feel free to interchange them.

 

[Blacknight99923]

of the three which is your personal CP?

 

[Pr0phetic]

Hmm, debating between Lylat and BF.

 

[Blacknight99923]

I would think he is more likely to ban BF
so i would probably have to say lylat is the way to go here

 

[Shaya]

BF is hardly a bad stage for diddy.
Its probably the most neutral stage between the two characters in the game.

 

[Pr0phetic]

But BF is so comfortable to me (especially as Marth). Your probably right though lol

 

[Shaya]

Oh, Im not saying dont pick it or anything, and its definitely still good for Marth.
More of a reply to... why would diddy ban BF...

When Brinstar, Lylat and YI hinder him.
Its a shame how the stage list is being reduced in ways that make this match up harder to win. LOL.

Imagine if Distant Planet was still standard legal? Match up would be so cash.

 

[Blacknight99923]

I think luigis is probably worse for him
camp behind a pillar and he just lost his entire approuch on you

 

[Punishment Divine]

I think luigis is probably worse for him
camp behind a pillar and he just lost his entire approuch on you

luigi's is banned always and forever lmao

Castle Siege is actually a decent pick in this matchup, although I don't really get to play it too much, and kinda suck against Diddy -_-

 

[Pr0phetic]

luigi's is banned always and forever lmao

Castle Siege is actually a decent pick in this matchup, although I don't really get to play it too much, and kinda suck against Diddy -_-

^^^^ Use my notes to Kev Seriously find a Diddy and get good cause they are popping up more and more..

 

[Player-3]

castile siege is really gay to cp agaisnt diddy

if he hits you with a naner while the stage is changing it auto-fastfalls you when it gets out of the transformation, and then diddy can easily edgehog you b/c you get up in midair while falling or some ****


tbh just CP him to rainbow cruise, almost no diddys know the stage and his naner game isn't deadly on it since it is only good on the boat/going back to the boat from the top

you just have to platform camp him on the top part, **** him on the pendulum, and keep him from setting up on the boat

 

[Punishment Divine]

^^^^ Use my notes to Kev Seriously find a Diddy and get good cause they are popping up more and more..

word ima hit him up for those. I'm giving the matchup one more try with Marth, but if it doesn't work I'ma start trying ICs probz

 

[xxmoosexx]

Is norfair banned stage yet? Just recently got back into competitive brawl and it wasn't banned when I did play so....seems pretty viable to me. You outdo him in the air and on ground, and the platforms take away his bananadvantage.

 

[Pr0phetic]

Is norfair banned stage yet? Just recently got back into competitive brawl and it wasn't banned when I did play so....seems pretty viable to me. You outdo him in the air and on ground, and the platforms take away his bananadvantage.

Norfair is banned depending on where you are. On the EC it's banned.

 

[xxmoosexx]

Norfair is banned depending on where you are. On the EC it's banned.

Yeah, that's how I remember it. Well what do you think about taking diddy there? Let's discuss as if it wasn't banned anywhere.

Platforms is good for marth

Controlling center and bottom with marth is insane

Takes away Diddy's banana use seeing as how its platforms.

Overall, seems like a good counterpick against Diddy. Please point out anything or better CP's against him.


As far as I'm concerned, use his bananas to get close via glidetossing and knock him off the edge. Then proceed to **** him till his next stock. If you are above him be prepared to catch bananas in the air with airdodging. If your in the middle of Diddy and his momentum, the best way to stop him his to take his banana.
Diddy isn't a top tier character, BANANAS are.

 

[Remzi]

A lot of tourneys are using MLG rules now, in which Norfair is legal. I agree that it's a good cp against Diddy, except that it takes away your ability to effectively edgeguard him.