Match-Up Discussion #34! Ness

[VietGeek]

Before anyone asks, I did not read this whole topic. I only read some of it. So this match up is obviously bad on Ness' part but not impossible. So instead of making myself look more like a moron, I'll ask you people this.

1. Have you fought a good Ness?
2. Does this Ness main have a name that is recognized by many?
3. Are you recognized by many as Marth main?
4. What were his strengths and weaknesses?
5. What was your strengths and weaknesses?
6. Did you use your deathgrab in order to win?

Questions one and two, though may not seem relevant, they are. Anyone can whoop a n00b.

1. I fought a Ness user that has the Brawl tag Duch/Duchock, and another one by the name RENTALINE (but he browses AiB). Both are pretty solid.

2. Umm, yes? I think only the random people on Youtube think I main Toon Link or something.

3. Both had PK Fire "mindgames," excellent use of PK Thunder to juggle Marth at his weak point (below him), both played defensively using Fair walls. Both of them know how to recovery, as well as stall using Down+B. Duchock also has a handmade hat resembling Ness's (this is very relevant).

4. Err...not sucking? That one is pretty tough to answer. But I won to Duchock after losing on Norfair. Rental beat me up, but that was my first tournament. I overused my kills moves on that one and couldn't kill him at 134% before dying to Bthrow.

My best asset is probably my mastery of pressing side + B x4. <_<

5. Yes, I used deathgrabs to win if I saw the opportunity.

 

[thesage]

I regularly play against levitas. Is he a good Ness with a name that is recognized by many?

I didn't know he played Ness. I thought he played Lucas lol.

Really does it matter? It's a disadvantageous matchup you probably won't experience that often cuz almost all of the Marth mains switched to gay(er) characters (at least in my area).

 

[_Kadaj_]

75:25 let's just leave it at that

 

[PKNintendo]

Actually, Ness isn't even infinited. I think it's a 7-3. I mean, SBG...

No? WTH, 7-3 or 75-25 isn't that much of a dif.

 

[illinialex24]

This is a fun matchup... Its a lot of fun.

 

[Zankoku]

btw if you feel like being risky/suicidal/flashy you can actually spike Ness out of his PKT2. And by that I mean land a tipped dair as he's barreling at you at wtf miles per hour.

 

[illinialex24]

btw if you feel like being risky/suicidal/flashy you can actually spike Ness out of his PKT2. And by that I mean land a tipped dair as he's barreling at you at wtf miles per hour.

Thats pimp. I mean pimp.

 

[yummynbeefy]

now this is just my opinion

but i think this matchup would be like 60-40 or possibly even 55-45 marth favor no chaingrab and something like 75-25 with cg ness has a great air game and can combo with his pk fire marth is probably got a slight edge in the air

on the ground marth wins with grab release tipper d-smash (if they eidi) i think smashes are about even but marth has him at tilts and grab releases ness has him on grabs

so yea thats my input

 

[Steel]

yeah well

ur opinions wrong

 

[Doomblaze]

ness cant combo with PK fire, sorry

^what steel said

On topic---> has the ness boards made and groundbreaking discoveries that could tilt the matchup more in their favor?

and more importantly, can the new awesome AT 3xSwords and co just found help us against them because it stops them from sweetspotting the edge when they recover?
I can see it working very situationally... but i want your guys input
*sad attempt to revive a dead thread*

 

[Shaya]

65-35 by the way.

 

[Dynomite]

infinate.. nuf said.

 

[KO M]

That really isn't fair.... I mean us Marth users have alot of advantage over Ness, and Lucas as is.. why do we need more.(infinite NinjaLinks Lucas) just kidding

 

[Bakithi]

infinate.. nuf said.

*Infinite. 'Nuff said.

I played a Ness recently... he was good, but with a little spacing, I punished all his attempts to kill me with PK Thunder (Rocketing). I normally just used Counter, but on the last kill, I hit him with an fsmash. Good times, gooooood times...

 

[Levitas]

Marth doesn't have an infinite against ness. Also, I haven't seen sufficient reason to believe that EIDI works/exists.

 

[Dynomite]

Marth doesn't have an infinite against ness. Also, I haven't seen sufficient reason to believe that EIDI works/exists.

uh, kinda he does, keep grabing and reliseing.. it works. some ness's, if good, can get out of it when marth is standing still but if marth dash grabs over and over ness cant get out of it till he is off the stage.

 

[ark-angel]

sidestep pk fire/thunder

i think its possible to sidestep fire but what about thunder? idk if i am doing it right but can you sidestep it or do the tail to it still get you?

 

[BBoyindo]

i think its possible to sidestep fire but what about thunder? idk if i am doing it right but can you sidestep it or do the tail to it still get you?

You can better just shield it.

 

[Levitas]

uh, kinda he does, keep grabing and reliseing.. it works. some ness's, if good, can get out of it when marth is standing still but if marth dash grabs over and over ness cant get out of it till he is off the stage.

That cannot be repeated indefinitely. Marth moves across the stage, meaning it has to end at some point.

Therefore, it is not an infinite.

 

[Dynomite]

That cannot be repeated indefinitely. Marth moves across the stage, meaning it has to end at some point.

Therefore, it is not an infinite.

eh, i guess u got me there. but still it kinda is u know? and thats only if they know how to get out if it.

 

[Uffe]

btw if you feel like being risky/suicidal/flashy you can actually spike Ness out of his PKT2. And by that I mean land a tipped dair as he's barreling at you at wtf miles per hour.

But really, what'd be the point of making Ness' recovery so obvious? Anyway, I have to agree with a lot of what ColinJF and Ref wrote. I'd say this match up in my opinion is either 65:35 or 60:40 without the chain grab. I believe he's got a better chance in Brawl than he did in Melee.

 

[cutter]

eh, i guess u got me there. but still it kinda is u know? and thats only if they know how to get out if it.

No, it is not an infinite.

It is a finite chaingrab.

 

[HADOOKEN]

But really, what'd be the point of making Ness' recovery so obvious? Anyway, I have to agree with a lot of what ColinJF and Ref wrote. I'd say this match up in my opinion is either 65:35 or 60:40 without the chain grab. I believe he's got a better chance in Brawl than he did in Melee.

all marf's air moves beat out nesster's recovery, HAHA

 

[Uffe]

all marf's air moves beat out nesster's recovery, HAHA

That's fine. As long as I'm still on the stage it's not game over.

 

[VietGeek]

eh, i guess u got me there. but still it kinda is u know? and thats only if they know how to get out if it.

Even then, it's just a longass chaingrab.

Why do you even play Marth. We only know of one man who plays BARLW MARTH in GA.

Full Me-

oh wait he hates this game.

 

[Steel]

viet ur vietnamese

 

[VietGeek]

viet ur vietnamese

 

[Steel]

k, you win the thread.

 

[_Kadaj_]

That cannot be repeated indefinitely. Marth moves across the stage, meaning it has to end at some point.

Therefore, it is not an infinite.

Dude you can be f-air'd or possibly d-air'd once you get to the edge, so your pretty much gonna die anyway

 

[ZHMT]

People need to just forget the chaingrab nonsense. Marth doesnt even need it to **** Ness.

Also for the people saying its not an infinite...w/e lol. Its 0-death if they don't do that extra DI stuff (I forgot the name), which is just as good.

I never used the release grab on a Ness or Lucas as a 0-death in tournament...ever...why? Because I still want to learn the matchup. If I rely on this "chaingrab" I will be hurting myself in the end because its not even allowed in all tounaments. Marth just doesn't need it and it shouldnt even be considered in a matchup discussion.

Using it for a nice safe ko move is potent enough. (Oh and it gets Ness users mad as **** too :D)

 

[_Kadaj_]

People need to just forget the chaingrab nonsense. Marth doesnt even need it to **** Ness.

Using it for a nice safe ko move is potent enough.

That's pretty much all I ever use it for lol

Not to mention the pummeling refreshes your other moves.

 

[ZHMT]

That's pretty much all I ever use it for lol

Not to mention the pummeling refreshes your other moves.

That too, you get 3-4 grabs (I use the c-stick to pummel here right into the smash attack).

The smash attack is usually always fully fresh...too good. I wish Marth had this on everyone <_<

 

[_Kadaj_]

Bowser does except with F-tilt

 

[milesg2g]

Marths Ariels out range Ness.
But a good Ness Rely's on spacing like an ok Marth does.
And any good Ness will know that they have to space out even more since that's their MU.

Marths Fair only has more range.
Ness' Fair has more priority. As does his Nair's Knockback.


Also the CG doesn't do much it's the grab release follow ups.
I've brawled Marths that CG'd the entire time. I just DI'd out and racked up more then their cg pulled of with just 2 tails of pkt. PKT can actually be the most mindraping projectile in the game (Which it is) for marth. Because marth starts to focus on hitting the head of the pkt mindlessly swinging his sword while Ness just stuns w/ the tail and then punishes w/ the head. If I were a Marth I'd watch out for the tail because a debuffed Bthrow is scary

 

[feardragon64]

How does one disjointed aerial hitbox have more priority than another?
Who is advocating the cg over the grab release follow ups?
Aren't you assuming it's a bad marth when you say they're mindlessly swinging at the head of the pk thunder?
Why did you bump a 10 month old topic?
Why do I care that you bumped a 10 month old topic to say nothing new?

 

[Albert.]

 

[Shaya]

Marth ***** Ness.

Sorry it's true.
Marth doesn't just gay ness,
he counters his entire game.
Ness only has backthrow, fair and dash attack (lol not really even this), his nair is rare thing to be hitting Marth with, for any nair you could hit us with, we'd use our better aerial mobility and fast fall speed to uair you, or to shield then grab you, gg.

Ness' fair outranges/disjoints Marths. But who cares.
Pixel pixel, smash di, ff uair.

 

[milesg2g]

Marth ***** Ness.

Sorry it's true.
Marth doesn't just gay ness,
he counters his entire game.
Ness only has backthrow, fair and dash attack (lol not really even this), his nair is rare thing to be hitting Marth with, for any nair you could hit us with, we'd use our better aerial mobility and fast fall speed to uair you, or to shield then grab you, gg.

Ness' fair outranges/disjoints Marths. But who cares.
Pixel pixel, smash di, ff uair.

How does one disjointed aerial hitbox have more priority than another?
Who is advocating the cg over the grab release follow ups?
Aren't you assuming it's a bad marth when you say they're mindlessly swinging at the head of the pk thunder?
Why did you bump a 10 month old topic?
Why do I care that you bumped a 10 month old topic to say nothing new?

I didn't realize how old this thread was I'm sorry.
But after looking I felt like leaving input.
Bad marth or good marth hitting the head of pkt stops it. and any smart brawler would just hit the pkt. like others said before me a good ness won't get grabbed easily and pick up on marth not having a projectile. Because Ness and only a few other characters can control their projectiles this gives him the option of mindraping but your right you win gg

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

This isn't really a discussion Marth just ***** Ness 1 grab = 1 stock counter can easily punish pkt plus Marth out ranges Ness's fair with his own fair.

 

[∫unk]

i disagree shaya

mintyflesh' blog on aib covered marth vs ness as of recent (including top ness/marth's opinions) so look there for the detailed arguments

above average marth ***** above average ness. no marth will be fow easily.

the matchup is 60:40 (completely winnable for ness) even with the grab release

on wifi it's probably like 90:10 cause it's near impossible to break out correctly in lag