Match up disagreements: Wolf!

[Infern Angelis]

Snake vs Pit is a close matchup, but it is definetly in Snake's favor, no doubt about it

 

[napZzz]

I dont see how me being inconsistent has anything to do with a matchup ratio but I guess if your just gonna throw a fit if anyone posts anything negative about you theres no point in discussing anything.

btw, your diddy is terribellllllllleelele.

OHS ****IHSHS ON

I quit diddy a long time ago

you lost 2 matches to a ganon, how is that being inconsistent. And thats not a fit, its simply a few of my reasons for thinking ic's vs. snake is even goodness.

 

[6Mizu]

Why you guys still talking about Pit? It's even.

 

[Turbo Ether]

Are most of us willing to agree to Pit vs Snake being 54:45 in Snake's favor? Would be nice to finalize the ratio.

 

[napZzz]

I'd put it as 5/5 or 55/45 pits favor

 

[6Mizu]

I'd put it as 5/5 or 55/45 pits favor

Nappy's right. Tiugh Heretiv think....it's EVEN.

 

[PUNK9]

The Piakchu:Snake Match-up it's 60:40. haha, you guys are inhaling to much of those fumes from teh explosives. xD

Its more like 50:50. Or 55:45 Snake, if the Snake is a very Campy one,

And the CG. You can't just blow you'reself up to get out of it, any good pikachu knows, to get Snake to the end of the stage THEN start the d-throw CG, that way, when you guys drop the nades, it just falls right down.

I can see how it can be snakes adv. of 55 because if you force Pika to approch, you guys have f-tilt, grabs, DACUS, f-tilt, etc, we have f-air and t-jolts, to approch,

Personally, I love this match-up, but honestly, it's not 60:40 xD

~punk9

 

[Berserker.]

I don't know the pikachu MU that much. All I know is that we can pull out a nade while in it (If this fact is wrong, blame Susa T_T)

That CG sucks and is overrated. Just blow yourself up, he has nothing on you..unless he planks. lawl

 

[Turbo Ether]

I've noticed that a very large number of character boards think their character goes even with Snake, or only loses 45:55.

 

[Berserker.]

They take Snake easily because of his air games. They're forgetting a lot about Snake

 

[.decoy]

And the CG. You can't just blow you'reself up to get out of it, any good pikachu knows, to get Snake to the end of the stage THEN start the d-throw CG, that way, when you guys drop the nades, it just falls right down.
~punk9

I don't know the pikachu MU that much. All I know is that we can pull out a nade while in it (If this fact is wrong, blame Susa T_T)

i think im going to go with punk9 here.

 

[Berserker.]

Wow Susa is wrong O_O

But I still think it's a 55:45 Snake or 50:50

 

[gallax]

its in snakes favor or even fo sho. i can see it going either way.

 

[Berserker.]

It's pika's favor if your in FD I think.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

I don't really have much to add, but if you guys wait till there are vids of me vs Ally we can use those I guess

You can Nade out of the D-throw CG if it isn't near the edge (getting it near the edge is hard as ****). Also, if the pikachu isn't perfect you can nade out of F-throw CG. The match kinda depends on CG and edgeguarding for pikachu. If we can get a good 90% CG off and decent edgeguards, consider the game pikachu's. If we can't because of good nade placement/spacing, consider the game snakes. Its a battle of the wits more than anything else.

 

[PUNK9]

Ok, here's how I see it

55:45 Snake, if the snake is EXTERALLY CAMPY, and knows how to PS t-jolt's, while placing mines, and f-tilting and doing what snakes do

55:45 Pikachu, If the snake gets hit with more than 60% of the t-jolt's sent out, and gets at least 50% on snake with the CG.

50:50 If the snake PS 70% of all teh t-jolts. but the pika gets a fair amount of percent from teh CG.

Althogh Sanke lives FOREVER, his recovery, is easily gimpable by Pika, Since we are greeat at gimping./ egde guarding.
Now Snake can kill us at like what 115 with perfect DI? but Pika is sooo small, it's pretty hard to hit us with kill moves. Now a good pikachu, after he gets the percent lead, he won't get anywere close to snake if he's in kill percent, What would be the point in approching when you have the % led, and in kill range. hell no. xD

Now tht's what I think the MU should be. -----> 48:52 snake, 53:47 pika at best.

 

[Berserker.]

Well we would obviously increase our capabilities of camping ability if that's the case

 

[Yumewomiteru]

Snake can't actually nade out of f-throw cg, even if he pulls a nade out it wont explode because pikachu's fthrow hitbox wont hit it. Your best option is to spotdodge/roll.

 

[Berserker.]

How do you even deal with SH T-jolts O_o? It's kinda hard to deal with

 

[Yumewomiteru]

Ummmm SH? thats easy, powershield and punish the lag, Pikachu can only cancel Tjolts if he full hops or double jumps them.

 

[Esca]

A little late, but against Pit, put your c4 on one edge of the stage, it limits his flying under it. It helps alot.

Also, you don't really want to ftilt as much. Jabs are the most useful ground move. Stay ducked for arrows, it's better than being completely open.

Recover high. You just beat Pit!

 

[ScAtt77]

Im pretty sure Snake's jab clanks with t-jolts, so camping pikachu is less of a problem if you do use that method.

Also, leaving a c4 by a ledge seems to be a pretty effective way of reducing pikachu's chance to rack up 90%
on Snake. I'm not saying its foolproof, but it's helped me out in some situations. :O

 

[xLeafybug =D]

Or you can blow yourself up out of CG %.

 

[PUNK9]

Or you can blow yourself up out of CG %.

Liek we said before, You can't blwo you're self out of the f-throw cg, only the d-throw, and 90% of pika's will f-throw to the end of teh stage and d-throw when both are near teh end, so when you pull a nade, it just flls right down, and doesn't affect teh CG

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

He means you can double nade + C4 to get to like 40% and we can't CG him after.

 

[xMPDx]

Ok, here's how I see it

55:45 Snake, if the snake is EXTERALLY CAMPY, and knows how to PS t-jolt's, while placing mines, and f-tilting and doing what snakes do

55:45 Pikachu, If the snake gets hit with more than 60% of the t-jolt's sent out, and gets at least 50% on snake with the CG.

50:50 If the snake PS 70% of all teh t-jolts. but the pika gets a fair amount of percent from teh CG.

Althogh Sanke lives FOREVER, his recovery, is easily gimpable by Pika, Since we are greeat at gimping./ egde guarding.
Now Snake can kill us at like what 115 with perfect DI? but Pika is sooo small, it's pretty hard to hit us with kill moves. Now a good pikachu, after he gets the percent lead, he won't get anywere close to snake if he's in kill percent, What would be the point in approching when you have the % led, and in kill range. hell no. xD

Now tht's what I think the MU should be. -----> 48:52 snake, 53:47 pika at best.

I still think Snake has the advantage on this match, but not by much.

Like you stated Snake can live like forever, and pikachu will have a hard time killing him. The only option its to try a kill snake while he is recovering, which i think since its to obvious the snake user will prevent that from happening. Pikachu cant go close combat on snake, its ******** to even think about it.

Pikachu CG its really good but, think about it. A good Snake vs a Good pikachu, there will be times that snake will get CG but its not going to be easy grabbing him, for that you have to aproach snake up close & snake tilts have tremendous range so thats not going to be easy and most snake will have a grenade so even if you manage to grab him, you'll end up getting damage as well.

Its a pretty hard match up for pikachu unless he gets the kill first, only then i can see it difficult for snake.

 

[Black_Heretic]

Pikachu is one of the characters who actually can kill Snake earlier because he stops Snake's ability to momentum cancel vertical hits via Thunder. If the Snake uairs or bairs out of hitstun during the match, Pikachu gets a free top kill during one of Snake's 40 frame aerials. Of course this isn't the easiest position to get Snake in, its still something that needs to be taken into account by the Snake player.

 

[xMPDx]

Pikachu is one of the characters who actually can kill Snake earlier because he stops Snake's ability to momentum cancel vertical hits via Thunder. If the Snake uairs or bairs out of hitstun during the match, Pikachu gets a free top kill during one of Snake's 40 frame aerials. Of course this isn't the easiest position to get Snake in, its still something that needs to be taken into account by the Snake player.

Very true.

I know its not the right thread for me to ask this but is there any good pikachu user who's going to Pound 4? I would surely like to meet them and play with them, im a snake user and there arent any good pikachu were im from. Anyway just contact me through PM i dont wanna change the subject here, there if you like i can give you the link to some videos i have.

anyway.

back on subject

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

I really want my Ally videos to come out so I can show you guys a good pikachu vs a good snake.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLdACxrNzMg

Here is one against an OK snake.

 

[PUNK9]

But think about it, In my option, Pika, is a better Camper then snake,

Snake can have 2 nades out ar a time correct?
Well, I'n the time you can pull and throw 2 nades, Pika has sent out 2 T-jolt's already,
Now you have to wait for one of the nades to blow up to pull another one, And in that time, Pika can send 1-2 more t-jolts.
And I know, T-jotls can be a pain to deal with, Just all this electicitity everywere when you're trying to pull out nades, and BAM look at that, Pika's got the percent led. Now SNAKE has to approach. That is when teh MU Slightly goes to Pika's favor, Since he can just sheild Snakes titls, and Sheild grab him, and Bam CG, 70< percent on snake right there.

But getting the percent led isn't that easy for Pikachu, with the Snakes that actully appraoch with F-tilt, and jab, and nades and etc,

Now if Pika gets teh percent led, and snake is still camping, That's when it goes to Sanke Adv. Since pika already has a slight problem arrpoaching, not to mention, approaching snake is like stupid.
That is when the Pika has to play smart and bait alot of his attacks.

So honestly this Match-up all depends on how to Snake plays.

Snake=Campy-55:45 Sanke
Snake=Campy then with Pika's Percent lead Approaches-55:45 Pika
Sanke=Not very campy but is a smart snake not to do anything stupid(lol)-50:50

Honestly this match-up can go ether way.

Watching ESAM's video, Do you guys think that the ability to Glide toss might have something to do with this Match-up?

 

[DMG]

It's not hard for Snake to pull a grenade, PS a Thunder Jolt, then throw the grenade. Or toss it, PS, etc.

Basically the window of opportunity Pikachu has to "outcamp" Snake is either really small, or it isn't there. Part of the problem with trying to outcamp Snake as Pika is that his projectile fades away once you shield/PS it. Snake can throw a grenade at you and even if you PS it, you still have to worry about it exploding. That combined with the fact that Snake can travel quite a distance with a grenade while still being able to choose when he tosses it and how fast he tosses it/what angle he chooses, makes me think that Pika probably can't outcamp Snake.

Now, if we are talking about platform camping/running away kind of camping, then in that area I see Pikachu doing quite fine against Snake. In fact on some stages, I think Pika beats Snake because of how well he can run away from him.

I think Wario/Snake is either even or slight Wario's favor depending on the stage selection allowed. Neutrals only, pretty even. Slightly liberal, pretty even still. Really liberal, slight Wario advantage.

 

[xMPDx]

It's not hard for Snake to pull a grenade, PS a Thunder Jolt, then throw the grenade. Or toss it, PS, etc.

Basically the window of opportunity Pikachu has to "outcamp" Snake is either really small, or it isn't there. Part of the problem with trying to outcamp Snake as Pika is that his projectile fades away once you shield/PS it. Snake can throw a grenade at you and even if you PS it, you still have to worry about it exploding. That combined with the fact that Snake can travel quite a distance with a grenade while still being able to choose when he tosses it and how fast he tosses it/what angle he chooses, makes me think that Pika probably can't outcamp Snake.

Now, if we are talking about platform camping/running away kind of camping, then in that area I see Pikachu doing quite fine against Snake. In fact on some stages, I think Pika beats Snake because of how well he can run away from him.

I think Wario/Snake is either even or slight Wario's favor depending on the stage selection allowed. Neutrals only, pretty even. Slightly liberal, pretty even still. Really liberal, slight Wario advantage.

Even with plataforms i still see it hard on Pika, you can still do pressure with C4 and land mines, plus Grenades. It will be lots of things the Pika user need's to watch out for. Also remember pikachu cant aproach snake, it just cant.. so Snake will be doing the aproach for the kill and he has more than 1 way to aproach pika + he has God Send Atk(U-Tilt) witch kills Pika really fast and unless you gimp snake you wont see him dead in quite a while.


I dont know... thats just My opinion i think this match up is 60:40snake

Against Wario i see it slightly snake favors i say 55:45snake. its that or even.

 

[Nic64]

Pikachu can't projectile camp Snake, his projectile is really bad at this. I agree that he's good at running away though, and if you take the "I blew myself up to 40% where's your chain grab now" route, you have to be aware that he could just get planky with you.

 

[PUNK9]

Pikachu can't projectile camp Snake, his projectile is really bad at this. I agree that he's good at running away though, and if you take the "I blew myself up to 40% where's your chain grab now" route, you have to be aware that he could just get planky with you.

That may be true,
But the MU isn't all about the CG, Most of it is the fact that Pika can gimp snake fairly easy.
and just FYI, A good Pikachu will know how to avoid all teh expolsives.
That's not really a provblem, The problem is, Then they expolde on their own, I can't really keep up with that.

I really see this MU as 50:50. Pikachus Airels>Snakes Airels, So pika's got him thre.
Ground game Snake>Pikachu By far.

If pika goes to the air, when snake is Approaching, Pika>Snake.
CG or not, A good pikachu will know how to get snake off the stage and gimp, with Thunder, N-air, and if the snake is stupid,. Grab snake while he's cyfering/

 

[6Mizu]

That may be true,
But the MU isn't all about the CG, Most of it is the fact that Pika can gimp snake fairly easy.
and just FYI, A good Pikachu will know how to avoid all teh expolsives.
That's not really a provblem, The problem is, Then they expolde on their own, I can't really keep up with that.

I really see this MU as 50:50. Pikachus Airels>Snakes Airels, So pika's got him thre.
Ground game Snake>Pikachu By far.

If pika goes to the air, when snake is Approaching, Pika>Snake.
CG or not, A good pikachu will know how to get snake off the stage and gimp, with Thunder, N-air, and if the snake is stupid,. Grab snake while he's cyfering/

This is accurate.
It's either 55:45 Pika's fav. or 5:5 even.

 

[Turbo Ether]

A good Pikachu will know how to avoid all teh expolsives.




A good pikachu will know how to get snake off the stage and gimp, with Thunder, N-air, and if the snake is stupid,. Grab snake while he's cyfering/

First of all, by talking about what a "good" Pikachu will do against a "stupid" Snake, you're already approaching the discussion from a biased point of view. In a matchup discussion, it's always assumed that both characters are being played at top level.

How does Pikachu "avoid all teh expolsives", get Snake offstage and gimp him "fairly easily"?

If Snake has a percent lead, how does Pikachu safely approach? We already know that Snake outcamps Pikachu, so Pikachu will have to approach if he's losing.

 

[GreenFox]

^ I agree with this guy but I still think its pikachus favor mainly due to CG's

 

[professor mgw]

Against wario: 55:45 (snakes favor)
Against pikachu: 50:50 even

 

[6Mizu]

First of all, by talking about what a "good" Pikachu will do against a "stupid" Snake, you're already approaching the discussion from a biased point of view. In a matchup discussion, it's always assumed that both characters are being played at top level.

How does Pikachu "avoid all teh expolsives", get Snake offstage and gimp him "fairly easily"?

If Snake has a percent lead, how does Pikachu safely approach? We already know that Snake outcamps Pikachu, so Pikachu will have to approach if he's losing.

^ I agree with this guy but I still think its pikachus favor mainly due to CG's

Yes, Turbo is right. And, no Pika CG isn't that why he has a favor in the MU. For that matter he's even w/ Snake.

Against wario: 55:45 (snakes favor)
Against pikachu: 50:50 even

^ right about Pika. But Wario is even w/ Snake.

 

[Berserker.]

Snake conquers the ground over Pikachu. Pika's air games are trouble for Snake though. Snake should stay away from Pika and camp Pika. Snake should play safe to avoid much damage. If he carelessly approaches Pikachu, he will eat lots of damage so camping is important here. Camp hard against Pikachu. Watch out for Pika's CGs.

I think it's 55:45 Snake or 50:50

The pikachu discussion is done. The MU is 50:50

TO FALCO!