Match up disagreements: Wolf!

[Sinz]

I will get a list of characters in a bit. I just know he can because Ken Neth jab locked my snake a few times. and a few other characters.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

If your discussing Link right now, I'm guessing based on the title, I can say most Link's think it's near even, but after playing multiple Snake and even tried figuring some things about against Ally.

After playing against all of these snakes I can't agree with a ratio of 55:45 anymore.

I do think this is Link's easiest top tier match-up even if it isn't 55:45. And it's not 3:7 Snake.

I'll give some more input on it later but I think the ratio is somewhere around 40:60 Snake.

 

[Purple]

This post has A LOT of errors in it. Snake beats both of these characters but not really because of anything you mentioned lol.

Gallax, no we don't live in FL.

you're going to have to explain to me then, because that's what i see from it, and playing some sheiks/zeldas, i've found it effective.

 

[Purple]

If your discussing Link right now, I'm guessing based on the title, I can say most Link's think it's near even, but after playing multiple Snake and even tried figuring some things about against Ally.

After playing against all of these snakes I can't agree with a ratio of 55:45 anymore.

I do think this is Link's easiest top tier match-up even if it isn't 55:45. And it's not 3:7 Snake.

I'll give some more input on it later but I think the ratio is somewhere around 40:60 Snake.

you're not giving any real insight into why the matchup should be changed. Snake's game doesn't revolve around gimping, so link does have the ability to get back to the stage, and since link is relatively heavy, he can rack damage, but not die. I can see this to effect the MU.

:edit: apologies for the double post.

 

[-Mars-]

Sheik has very few options against a good snake. Sheik's f-tilt can be countered by snake's so there's no reason unless you space wrong that sheik should be f-tilt locking you. IF you're spacing like that, it will take forever for you to die from sheik without an f-tilt lock. Sheik's pin damage is just a jump + plant c4 away from being dodged, which just puts you at an advantage. Snake is bad in the air, and sheik is great in it, but has no real tools to put you in the air either (once again if played correctly). Making her air game obsolete. Plus backing away and b-airing or n-airing depending on your position will outspace everything except her bair.
(bolding is just my opinion)

She can simply grab and throw you into the air. Sheik's ftilt clanks with Snake's. If you keep backing away and nairing i'll just throw a needle storm to cover your landing. Chain also outranges everything in Snake's moveset besides things like grenades and the like.

Remember, these matchups are played if both players are playing their character to the optimal ability. Not in your skill level, with all the options that snake has to stay grounded, i can see sheik's stocks going away extremely quickly, along with zelda's i call it 65:35snake's favor for sheik, 60:40 snake's favor for them together, 55:45 snake's favor zelda (just because she CAN potentially kill.)

The fact that you claimed Snake is 65-35 against Sheik but gave him an almost even matchup with Zelda shows how little you actually know about these matchups.

I would NEVER play Zelda against a competent Snake.

 

[Yumewomiteru]

I will get a list of characters in a bit. I just know he can because Ken Neth jab locked my snake a few times. and a few other characters.

I know of the jab reset to fsmash trick on the biggies, but i didnt know of the jab lock, that would be useful to learn.

 

[Berserker.]

Still discussing Shiek and Zelda huh?

I think it's a 55:45 Snake's favor against Link or 60:40 Snake. Link is still not to be underestimated. Be careful of his bombs and boomerangs. His boomerangs can bounce off Snake's nades.

As for Zelda, I say 60:50 or 65:35 Snake

Shiek, Not much experience

 

[Purple]

She can simply grab and throw you into the air. Sheik's ftilt clanks with Snake's. If you keep backing away and nairing i'll just throw a needle storm to cover your landing. Chain also outranges everything in Snake's moveset besides things like grenades and the like.



The fact that you claimed Snake is 65-35 against Sheik but gave him an almost even matchup with Zelda shows how little you actually know about these matchups.

I would NEVER play Zelda against a competent Snake.

Only because of the fact that she has multiple kill moves. But then again playing zelda only her kill moves are quickly watered down.

 

[gallax]

zelda vs snake is a laughable fight. she literally cant do anything to us other than dtilt/jab us. sure we may get caught in a few usmashes and the fsmash might poke our shield every now and then but other than that this fight is in our favor 65:35

 

[Mister Cadaver]

Zelda can Din's fire camp (faster than your grenades) then fsmash to keep you from approaching. It's more annoying than you think. I wouldn't say it's 65:35, especially if the Zelda can fair correctly.
Mikey did fairly well against Ally's snake with Zelda at my place before Pound 4. (Granted, it was friendlies)

 

[Berserker.]

Back.

It's a 65:35, din's fire is easy to dodge

 

[thefonz21]

my Link could **** u lol.

 

[Sinz]

Looks at name. Looks at Join Date. Looks at post.


Disregards post above.

 

[Zatchiel]

my Link could **** u lol.

Hmm, do i smell a troll brewing?
*Looks for avatar*
Hmm.

Anyway!

 

[Berserker.]

my Link could **** u lol.

Troller
Stop saying ***t like that when your never battled me.

 

[6Mizu]

Zelda= 60:40
IMO

 

[Toneh]

you guys are underestimating zelda she is such a good character

 

[etecoon]

zelda is aight, and she's another one of those characters like olimar that is "my horrible recovery is normally a weakness but snake can't gimp at all!", but snake wins at least 6:4 IMO

 

[6Mizu]

Zelda= 60:40
IMO

you guys are underestimating zelda she is such a good character

zelda is aight, and she's another one of those characters like olimar that is "my horrible recovery is normally a weakness but snake can't gimp at all!", but snake wins at least 6:4 IMO

Berk I think we have a Ratio for Zelda. 60:40.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

you're not giving any real insight into why the matchup should be changed. Snake's game doesn't revolve around gimping, so link does have the ability to get back to the stage, and since link is relatively heavy, he can rack damage, but not die. I can see this to effect the MU.

:edit: apologies for the double post.

You know what, disregard that I was acting emo at the time.

I get into it later but the MU is depending on who you ask a 50:50-40:60 Snakes favor. I'm saying 45:55 for now.

Also Ally, Deva wants a rematch.

 

[AllyKnight]

You know what, disregard that I was acting emo at the time.

I get into it later but the MU is depending on who you ask a 50:50-40:60 Snakes favor. I'm saying 45:55 for now.

Also Ally, Deva wants a rematch.

ugh unno when im going to WC lol

 

[rPSIvysaur]

You guys underrate your Lucas MU

 

[Berserker.]

Bheeeerrr... What do you wanna do then?

 

[Sinz]

He wants to make it 70/30 at least O:

 

[B_J_]

ugh unno when im going to WC lol

TGWP? ;D

shud go *****

 

[Berserker.]

Okay, I'm putting all the ratios

 

[rPSIvysaur]

He wants to make it 70/30 at least O:

This. Lucas shouldn't win against a Snake in a tourney.

 

[So Fatal]

wolf vs snake is fun. lol I played jj wolf recently, too fackin good

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I think if both characters play at their absolut best possible it's pretty even.

But Snake is a broken piece of **** character, has infinte room for error and can win a game with one good read so it's 6/4 Snake favour.

 

[luke_atyeo]

matchups are suppossed to be made assuming both characters are playing at a high level/absoute best/whatever so given that the matchup really is 50/50, I have alot of experiance with one of the better wolf players around and if you want me and him can come in here and give you massive walls of text to convince you.

also jj is broken.

 

[Technodeath]

Ted is a mad wolf >_<

and i've only watched vids of him playing.

 

[napZzz]

vs. a bad wolf snake will **** wolf so bad

but a good one who knows what he's doing can really put on some pressure and avoid alot of snakes tricks and juggle him like a *****. I think its fairly even, and can go to a slight favor back and forth depending on stage.

 

[Berserker.]

^ what he said.

Also, wolf obviously has better air games than Snake. Wolf's d-smash is a beast killer.

I'm thinking it's 50:50, if not 50:50 then 55:45 Snake's favor then.

I'm having the weird feeling that when shmot comes here in this thread, he might give a very long accurate input of Snake VS wolf being 60:40 Snake's favor like what he did when we discussed the IC's match up.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Do you guys even know what you are saying? If both character are playing without making a mistake Wolf wins every match-up 100/0 because he can shine through every move without ever getting hit. If your match-up discussion are supposed to be realistic then Snake wins because he outlives Wolf and kills him earlier. He has an absurd margin of error whereas a single mistake of Wolf is half a stock. Even a perfectly played Wolf can't do anything about it.

 

[napZzz]

Do you guys even know what you are saying? If both character are playing without making a mistake Wolf wins every match-up 100/0 because he can shine through every move without ever getting hit. If your match-up discussion are supposed to be realistic then Snake wins because he outlives Wolf and kills him earlier. He has an absurd margin of error whereas a single mistake of Wolf is half a stock. Even a perfectly played Wolf can't do anything about it.

your logic alone doesn't even make sense though :/ and why wouldn't you factor in humans when considering a matchup? Dont dereail this topic into something it shouldn't be though, I'm just confused as to why you would come in saying something so stupid.

What I was trying to say was that it seems that wolf vs. snake is a matchup you need to be alot more knowledged in to be able to make the difference compared to something standard, and that when played correctly its very very even when you factor in everything standard :/

 

[etecoon]

Do you guys even know what you are saying? If both character are playing without making a mistake Wolf wins every match-up 100/0 because he can shine through every move without ever getting hit.

wolf isn't the only character with an invincibility attack and he definitely isn't the only one to have a strategy that could theoretically be broken if employed by a robot

Wolf wins every match-up 100/0 because he can shine through every move without ever getting hit.

Even a perfectly played Wolf can't do anything about it.

contradiction.

snake's "margin of error" is also grossly over hyped, he pays for his weight class by getting combod and juggled as if he were a melee character. one hit or throw to put snake off the stage or in the air and you should be tacking on a significant amount of additional damage most of the time, his options are so predictable and bad.

snake does obviously win this matchup, but I think you overhype him a lot, he has some rather glaring weaknesses

snake's dthrow on wolf is pretty sexy, very easy to cover most of his options

 

[Berserker.]

We can't camp Wolf at our best because of his reflector/shine but we still have ways on getting around Wolf's reflector.

snake's "margin of error" is also grossly over hyped, he pays for his weight class by getting combod and juggled as if he were a melee character. one hit or throw to put snake off the stage or in the air and you should be tacking on a significant amount of additional damage most of the time, his options are so predictable and bad.

Snake isn't flawless or "has small disadvantages" gheb. I agree with etecoon except for the predictable option thing.

Oh btw: Wolf's recovery is bad-overall so take advantage of that. Snake's recovery is fairly easy to edgeguard but Wolf's lasers can't spike him since they damage 5% only so Wolf might as well jump then spike Snake manually but it seems unsafe since Wolf's recovery ain't that good.

 

[cenel]

I have played with T like last weekend. He is probably the best if not one of the best wolfs in europe. And i think it's 60-40 for snake. I feel like snake's groundgame can deal very well with all of wolf's aproaches. Spaced bair's of wolf aren't as safe as they usualy are, because of snake's broken ftilt/uptilt range. Everything wolf does is kind of punishable with snake. Snake's damage output is just broken. Wolf also has a pretty bad recovery, that snake can take advantage of. Wolf is a beast though when snake's in the air. I might be a bit biased though, because of my matches with him.

 

[luke_atyeo]

wolf breaks alot of snakes usual tricks and approachs, and he juggles snake about as well as marth does, plus he's absurdly good at punishing characters on their landing lag, which is one of snakes biggest weak points, plus wolf gets good kill setups if he plays the matchup right.