Match-Up Chart (Outdated); please refer to the new chart.

[rhan]

I wouldn't know **** about that match-up...







Only that Young Link beats them both.

 

[KAOSTAR]

I will not rest until Zelda>Mewtwo is accepted

hey I know how you feel cuz I had a similar problem. fortunately I took care of it already.

 

[Merkuri]

At this point Cosmo is the only one who could get Zelda > Mewtwo accepted. But he appears to be silent on the topic.

 

[Dark Hart]

Zelda = Y. Link...

 

[KAOSTAR]

At this point Cosmo is the only one who could get Zelda > Mewtwo accepted. But he appears to be silent on the topic.

he couldn't do it on boards tho. he would have to **** taj in order for it to change.

the topic is over. join my group if you want to re live it.

 

[Merkuri]

Nah, it's not like Taj is arguing that the match up is in Mewtwo's favor. But I'd be willing bet both of them have little to no experience in that match up so whatever.

 

[Divinokage]

The only experience you really need vs Zelda, is watch out for lightning kicks.. gg you win.

 

[The Good Doctor]

The only experience you really need vs Zelda, is watch out for lightning kicks.. gg you win.

Tell that to Kels and Tink...
Oh ****, name drop no jutsu!

 

[Druggedfox]

Maybe if he told them that... they wouldn't have lost?

 

[KAOSTAR]

kage knows the MU lol. thats literally it. gg win.

Nah, it's not like Taj is arguing that the match up is in Mewtwo's favor. But I'd be willing bet both of them have little to no experience in that match up so whatever.

how are you always sooo wrong except that 1 time when I said gosu.

taj, myself, vectorman, and umbreon all said mewtwo's favor a long time ago.

vman just quoted like 5 posts ago taj where he says in mewtwo's favor post apex.

 

[Laijin]

Zelda = Y. Link...

Young Link destroys Zelda.

She is waaay too slow to keep up with his speed and he can EASILY outcamp her. He edge guards her pretty easily too and since shes floaty she is easy to combo. Its not an even match up by any means

Oh. And Young Link RAAAAPES mewtwo even harder.
Its almost literally an unwinnable match up for Mewtwo(+2 over M2 IMO).
Mewtwo is way too big and way too slow to keep up with YL. Plus he combos him easily and can effectively out camp him. On smaller stages like FoD and YS however, the match up is more like a +1 in YL's favor.

 

[JPOBS]

Tell that to Kels and Tink...
Oh ****, name drop no jutsu!

lmfao

 

[Divinokage]

Tell that to Kels and Tink...
Oh ****, name drop no jutsu!

No johns, L2 play the game!

 

[Archangel]

The only experience you really need vs Zelda, is watch out for lightning kicks.. gg you win.

Pretty much. If you get grabbed by zelda you deserve to be slapped. You can actually learn to fight against Zelda vs lvl9 Zeldas Except for Cosmo. That guy is good *dickrides*

 

[KAOSTAR]

Young Link destroys Zelda.

She is waaay too slow to keep up with his speed and he can EASILY outcamp her. He edge guards her pretty easily too and since shes floaty she is easy to combo. Its not an even match up by any means

Oh. And Young Link RAAAAPES mewtwo even harder.
Its almost literally an unwinnable match up for Mewtwo(+2 over M2 IMO).
Mewtwo is way too big and way too slow to keep up with YL. Plus he combos him easily and can effectively out camp him. On smaller stages like FoD and YS however, the match up is more like a +1 in YL's favor.

na. + 1 tho.

 

[Merkuri]

kage knows the MU lol. thats literally it. gg win.

how are you always sooo wrong except that 1 time when I said gosu.

taj, myself, vectorman, and umbreon all said mewtwo's favor a long time ago.

vman just quoted like 5 posts ago taj where he says in mewtwo's favor post apex.

What is this? Read posts next time.

At no point in that post does Taj say Mewtwo wins the match up. He says Mewtwo > Zelda as in Mewtwo's a better character.

He said he beats The Lake and Umbreon a lot, right after he mentions how he tore Lucky and Thorn apart. If you think Taj thinks that his match ups vs Spacies in in Mewtwo's favor then you're an idiot lol.

I don't know why you brought up Taj, Vectorman and you(lol) saying Mewtwo wins the match up. I never said they didn't.

 

[rhan]

Zelda = Y. Link...

Nope.

MM me and prove me wrong.

Young Link destroys Zelda.

She is waaay too slow to keep up with his speed and he can EASILY outcamp her. He edge guards her pretty easily too and since shes floaty she is easy to combo. Its not an even match up by any means

Oh. And Young Link RAAAAPES mewtwo even harder.
Its almost literally an unwinnable match up for Mewtwo(+2 over M2 IMO).
Mewtwo is way too big and way too slow to keep up with YL. Plus he combos him easily and can effectively out camp him. On smaller stages like FoD and YS however, the match up is more like a +1 in YL's favor.

*Co-Signs*

 

[KAOSTAR]

My final post about mewto zelda(serious topic)

Nah, it's not like Taj is arguing that the match up is in Mewtwo's favor. But I'd be willing bet both of them have little to no experience in that match up so whatever.

This is you saying taj is not in favor of mewtwo having the advantage in the zelda MU. Im assuming you are a complete idiot at this point so I have to make sure you know what you said.

What is this? Read posts next time.

At no point in that post does Taj say Mewtwo wins the match up. He says Mewtwo > Zelda as in Mewtwo's a better character.

He said he beats The Lake and Umbreon a lot, right after he mentions how he tore Lucky and Thorn apart. If you think Taj thinks that his match ups vs Spacies in in Mewtwo's favor then you're an idiot lol.


I don't know why you brought up Taj, Vectorman and you(lol) saying Mewtwo wins the match up. I never said they didn't.

I tried to help you out using color. But I think at this point you are confirmed to either, not read good, not read well, do not posses the ability to read, or are ****ing stupid.

Yes, he does overall say that mewtwo is a better character than zelda and possibly roy. Previously it was agreed mewtwo won the MU but wasnt as solid of a character as zelda.
But...

Zelda doesn't have what it takes to close out on camping like many other characters above her, and she suffers for it. She benefits a lot from players being reckless though. I played against Epsilon and The Lake with both mentalities in mind and found that I still won regardless of what style I chose to use. I could play reckless and barely win, or I could completely pick them apart and **** them with Mewtwo.

That sounds like him assessing the MU. you apparently dont have any higher level skills of interpretation. Why dont you tell me what you think this means....Based on the actual discussion that occurred way back when those are very specific references. The patient mewtwo is the part about picking them apart and ****** while the aggressive m2 was the one that was suppose to lose when playing vs zelda. Which was also determined to be the wrong way to play the MU. He was showing that he was able to win using both styles.

The entire debate if you arent too embarassed to post anymore is in here- http://www.smashboards.com/group.php?groupid=2232 seriously, you arent obligated to post ever again.

Pulled from the discussion:

Cosmo: don't know anything about mewtwo, but I'm agreeing with kage @ ganon >> zelda. MAYBE > but likely >>

Taj278^: If Mewtwo forces Zelda to take a platform from shadow balls, Mewtwo is in great shape for winning the match. Mewtwo has better horizontal mobility than Zelda's already decent mobility. If M2 gets under Zelda it's over. Patient M2 > Zelda, impatient overly offensive M2 < Zelda. Kaos is right about most of the match-up, but Zelda can legitimately force M2 out most of the match. But it isn't impossible for M2 to get inside Zelda's aerials/ground game, it just takes a while. Zelda basically needs to run out of stage or be approaching.

Any mistakes on Mewtwo's part from getting kicked usually set him back a bit so it can even out depending on the way the match unfolds.

Oh well, if I start playing again I'll $match the Zelda players.

this is umbreon on my fiancee's laptop, allow me to intervene. I have played this matchup surprisingly few times. I did play Tony @ both mewtwo dittos (1-1) and zelda vs mewtwo (tiebreaker, 1-0) at one of the *pound* events forever ago. We discussed the match briefly and concluded that the match was decently close. However, any respectable Mewtwo player knows that so long as the opposing character does not have a single tactic to shut Mewtwo down, Mewtwo can do well against that character. As such Mewtwo, is an excellent choice against, say, ICs even if ICs are significantly higher on the tier list. I also got the opportunity to play mookierah in zelda vs mewtwo (2-0) and mikey lenetia in mewtwo vs zelda (2-0) at FC3, both of which I considered to be my relative equals for each character at the given time (forever and ever ago, july 2005).

me and tony also concluded that the match-up depends HEAVILY on the ability of the mewtwo player, but that zelda's role remains static as that character often does. This means that, in theory and at higher level play, mewtwo controls the tempo of the match and should be able to offset what we both considered to be a fairly close match, putting the match in mewtwo's favor.

I do largely agree that mewtwo wins this match if that player makes note to abuse that level of control. of course, if any of you mewtwo players want to try my zelda, I'll **** you up.

 

[Merkuri]

This is you saying taj is not in favor of mewtwo having the advantage in the zelda MU. Im assuming you are a complete idiot at this point so I have to make sure you know what you said.I tried to help you out using color. But I think at this point you are confirmed to either, not read good, not read well, do not posses the ability to read, or are ****ing stupid.

Yes, he does overall say that mewtwo is a better character than zelda and possibly roy. Previously it was agreed mewtwo won the MU but wasnt as solid of a character as zelda.
But...

Zelda doesn't have what it takes to close out on camping like many other characters above her, and she suffers for it. She benefits a lot from players being reckless though. I played against Epsilon and The Lake with both mentalities in mind and found that I still won regardless of what style I chose to use. I could play reckless and barely win, or I could completely pick them apart and **** them with Mewtwo. [/QUOTE]That sounds like him assessing the MU. you apparently dont have any higher level skills of interpretation. Why dont you tell me what you think this means....Based on the actual discussion that occurred way back when those are very specific references. The patient mewtwo is the part about picking them apart and ****** while the aggressive m2 was the one that was suppose to lose when playing vs zelda. Which was also determined to be the wrong way to play the MU. He was showing that he was able to win using both styles.

The entire debate if you arent too embarassed to post anymore is in here- http://www.smashboards.com/group.php?groupid=2232 seriously, you arent obligated to post ever again.

Pulled from the discussion:

Again what is this?

I don't have the patience to respond to everything you said point for point so I'll just say my response and I'll leave to assume where they plug in.

Taj is saying Zelda is a bad character. Not that Mewtwo wins the match up, whether or not Taj thinks Mewtwo wins the match up is irrelevant here, as I'm basing everything off of that single post.

And you're a *******. What Taj was getting at about him ****** Zelda players is not so much that Mewtwo wins the match up as Zelda is a bad character. Mewtwo could be replaced with any suck character, Taj's point is that both styles are effective and winning strategies against Zelda because she is a limited character with no counter offenses for these strategies. Hence unlike Pikachu or Mewtwo she shouldn't be considered for moving up the tier list.

Honestly for someone who has the nerve to criticize me and act as if he has some superior insight you are shockingly dense. I can't imagine why you took the time to find these quotes, as I never supported the notion that Mewtwo loses the match up or that the pros think otherwise. You seem to be arguing something completely unrelated to my original point.

You're dumb, don't respond to my posts again.

 

[Laijin]

I love this topic.
Mewtwo vs Zelda.

YES

 

[KAOSTAR]

not actually about zelda vs m2. merkuri is dumb

I will not rest until Zelda>Mewtwo is accepted

hey I know how you feel cuz I had a similar problem. fortunately I took care of it already.

At this point Cosmo is the only one who could get Zelda > Mewtwo accepted. But he appears to be silent on the topic.

sooo which topic did you mean, the one where ppl are talking about m2 roy zelda yl and which one is an overall better character.... or more commonly that m2>zelda that stems from this thread and apparently continues to live on because of a bunch of ****ing idiots.

(nobody take offense to that except merkuri plz)

he couldn't do it on boards tho. he would have to **** taj in order for it to change.

the topic is over. join my group if you want to re live it.

Nah, it's not like Taj is arguing that the match up is in Mewtwo's favor. But I'd be willing bet both of them have little to no experience in that match up so whatever.

Not to mention this is the MATCHUP THREAD.

not to MENTION DARK HART CONSTANTLY "trolls me lol <3" ABOUT ZELDA BEATING M2.

If there was a miscommunication somewhere it was on your part because you dont know how to interpret/read/understand/comprehend other ppls posts.

Look at how we got to that discussion. WHY ARE YOU ALWAYS TALKING ABOUT SOMETHING DIFFERENT THEN WHATS ON THE TABLE?

and WTF does ******* mean

 

[Laijin]

Kaostar.
You are the most serious poster on swf ever. I have never seen so many colors in one post before

 

[KAOSTAR]

I love arguing about stupid ****.lol

but that dude tried to disrespect me lol....low key.

he was just full of ****. he does it often.

I think most non-merkuri's read around the post they are responding to for context. I try to read deep into the discussion or flat out tell you I could be wrong because ive only read a small amount. its like coming to class prepared.

and I already have the whole zelda thing in that group. very easy to get any of the posts from that whole mess.

 

[Merkuri]

sooo which topic did you mean, the one where ppl are talking about m2 roy zelda yl and which one is an overall better character.... or more commonly that m2>zelda that stems from this thread and apparently continues to live on because of a bunch of ****ing idiots.

(nobody take offense to that except merkuri plz)

I hope ''idiots'' is inclusive of you. Because you are the one who made an argument out of it, not me.

Not to mention this is the MATCHUP THREAD.

not to MENTION DARK HART CONSTANTLY "trolls me lol <3" ABOUT ZELDA BEATING M2.

If there was a miscommunication somewhere it was on your part because you dont know how to interpret/read/understand/comprehend other ppls posts.

Look at how we got to that discussion. WHY ARE YOU ALWAYS TALKING ABOUT SOMETHING DIFFERENT THEN WHATS ON THE TABLE?

and WTF does ******* mean

Who gives a **** about Darkheart trolling you. That does not give you license to act like an idiot and put words in my mouth. I was talking about Taj's post, it was posted recently therefore it's up for discussion.

You see your problem is that you over complicate really simple matters and in the end you come off as a ******* because of it.

******* is d.u.m.b.a.s.s.

 

[KAOSTAR]

lmao sorry guys- im actually an *** hole

get that sensitive **** outta here.
T
address the part about you being a little *****.
R
I addressed that post, but do you not realize that a single post or quote from another thread is often out of context. taj didn't just post that based on a recent discussion.
O
I can actually understand how you were talking about tier list and cosmo doing well would put zelda above m2. but then I make a post about him having to beat taj (cuz im talking about MU, which admittedly is an assumption) but your response specifically refers to MUs.
L
you said its not like he is saying mewtwo> zelda. you meant that posts it seems, but your next sentence doesn't support that thought about the single post.
L
I addressed the fact he does mean zelda below mewtwo on tier, but he was also referring to the MU. I pointed out to you with color where those came from. I gave you the context. MU specific **** he was referring to "proving" that mewtwo also has the MU advantage. we all know zelda and mewtwo are bad. why would he have to play m2 vs zelda to confirm that. that piece about if he had beaten a fox didn't support your argument. also it says zelda befits from aggressive reckless play which is the opposite of being effective. that was a result of him being a better player. yes zelda is limited but imo she is still better than where she is currently on the tier list. logical conclusion leads more towards MU info vs her not moving up which would be a slap in cosmo's face.
I
context context context
N
stop assuming **** because its quoted in front of you. realize that post is taken from another discussion or set of events that can have entirely different or additional assumptions or facts that led up to that post.
!
******* <««---actually just 7 asterisks
!
you got defensive instead of really analyzing what I said. after all that color it should have been clear what was meant by everyone.
!
then I explained why somebody would logically think you meant MU and not tier placement.
Motha
now im explaining that because I have to explain so much you are a
Fukka!
*******. <««--no asterisks

edit: lmao so you also missed the discussion where shadow ball 2/good doctor/dark hart/kaos specifically reference the zelda vs mewtwo MU. I think that was the very next group of posts right after vman's. talk about relevance.

just quit life.

Ahh **** dont even post anymore. This is right b4(like 10 posts) that single post you were referencing alone without quoting or making direct reference to.

Hey guys.
So I think Zelda vs Mewtwo is in Zelda's favor.

Zelda totally outmatches him in every which way.

LOL Oh yeah lesss do this again!

Seriously guys. Zelda destroys Mewtwo. It should be AT LEAST +2 Zelda.
Theres no way Mewtwo stands a chance

*a single teardrop*

Ahh**** here we goo!!

This is right after that post:

mewtwo philosophy thread + 1.

too bad Zelda > Mewtwo, or else that would've been a brilliant post

agreed, it really does

Zelda > MewSuck

KK, your avatar looks like a... baby angel... Mewtwo is a baby angel, but your avatar doesn't look like Mewtwo... does that mean Taj is a baby angel? ... but Taj plays Marth too... baby angel

yay zelda vs m2!

okay. it's an even match-up. zelda is more capable of beating Mewtwo on a small stage (YS for e.g.), and Mewtwo wins more easily on bigger stages bcause he can almost completely control the match with sufficiant room.

to the Zelda people... the toe is not the KNEE, Zelda is not Falcon and she has not the mobility to keep up with Mewtwo on a stage where he can teleport anywhere he wants to and land with 4 frames of lag (Which is the same amout of lag as the much loved Float cancel btw) and then use his HUGE rolls to get away from a toe spammer. Neither character ***** the other though. a SLIGHT advantange to Mewtwo, not enough to warrent a >. it's basically even.

/MU discussion.

how about those IC's huh?

Nope =)
Just saying

^^ believe what you want its a free country. just because you beat scrubby Mewtwos with Zelda doesn't make her better however.

why not get back on the MU's being discussed people?

I hope you didn't type that with a straight face....
Oh, I see you edited your post.

lmao yeah right after i posted the original i looked at it again. >_<;

BTW what MUs are actually being discussed? are there any left for ganon?

you guys are trolls.

I will not rest until Zelda>Mewtwo is accepted

and back at the beginning of this whole mess^^^

Get *****!!! What are you thinking?

 

[john!]

i tried to warn you guys

 

[Dark Hart]

KAO, stop being selfish. I don't just troll you about Zelda>Mewtwo. I troll everyone!!!

 

[KAOSTAR]

I Apologize T_T, forgive me?

**** am I really this mean? I actually feel bad for posting that for multiple reasons. It was mean and Im not even a mean dude, but also its long as **** and nobody wants to read all that ****.

Sorry everyone T_T

Especially Merkuri, Ive never ***** anyone that hard in my life and I promise not to do it again. I took it way to far and its not that serious. Friends?

 

[TemPesT-]

ya srsly who gives a **** about either of the 2 characters in question anyhow.

 

[Archangel]

Yeah. I thought we were suppose to be talking about Ganon/IC's vs high/top tiers.....more.

Why don't we just talk about Samus and Doc and how they are Underrated, Underused, Underutilized, and Underneath top/high tier charcters lol. Maybe we should talk more about their Match-ups. I must say I don't completely agree with some of them.

 

[BigWenz]

btw in regards to taj's post about beating epislon and the lake are we not taking into account player skills ? cause im not sure bout the lake but im sure taj > epislon in terms of player skills no disrespect to epislon but this is just a fact so i dont know how u can say mewtwo > zelda based off a better player beating up on people not on his skill level. also do epislon and the lake have match up experience? cause i know epislon is from MD/VA and i have yet to see a mewtwo anywhere in our tournies not even in friendles lol so im pretty sure he doesnt have match up experience but i could be wrong


tl;dr taj is probably higher up in skill level then epislon and the lake so how can u say mewtwo > zelda because the best mewtwo player in the world beat up on decent zelda players with probably little to no match up experience no disrespect to epislon and the lake

 

[Merkuri]

btw in regards to taj's post about beating epislon and the lake are we not taking into account player skills ? cause im not sure bout the lake but im sure taj > epislon in terms of player skills no disrespect to epislon but this is just a fact so i dont know how u can say mewtwo > zelda based off a better player beating up on people not on his skill level. also do epislon and the lake have match up experience? cause i know epislon is from MD/VA and i have yet to see a mewtwo anywhere in our tournies not even in friendles lol so im pretty sure he doesnt have match up experience but i could be wrong


tl;dr taj is probably higher up in skill level then epislon and the lake so how can u say mewtwo > zelda because the best mewtwo player in the world beat up on decent zelda players with probably little to no match up experience no disrespect to epislon and the lake

Yeah, which is kinda why I was saying Taj needs to beat Cosmo to prove something.

@Kaostar: I was gonna write a long response to you. But after sleeping I don't care about it anymore.

 

[KAOSTAR]

yea but like I said taj beating cosmo proves mewtwo beats zelda in the MU.

like I said, not that mewtwo is a better character.

you just contradicted your entire argument.

you should be glad you didn't write a long post.

 

[rhan]

What a diq...

 

[Dark Hart]

KAO, I love you, but this has to stop. Your seriousness is completely disrespectful, demeaning, and offending towards my blatant trolling and I won't stand for it.

ZELDA > MEWTWO FOREVER!!!!

 

[Merkuri]

yea but like I said taj beating cosmo proves mewtwo beats zelda in the MU.

like I said, not that mewtwo is a better character.

you just contradicted your entire argument.

you should be glad you didn't write a long post.

What? You're being dumb again.

He said Taj beating The Lake/Umbreon, doesn't prove anything because Taj is better skillwise. Cosmo is closer to Taj skillwise therefore beating Cosmo may prove something in the match up. What is difficult to understand about that?

You're repeated inane responses to my posts makes me feel as I my posts are ambiguous or could be interpreted many ways, but after reading them again they seem fine so I guess you must just be stupid.

 

[rhan]

All this hate between the three characters that probably won't ever matter in this game..

All the YLink players say that they're better then the other two.

All the Zelda players say that they're better then the other two.

All the Mewtwo players say that they're better then the other two.

All of it truly is pointless though. xD

 

[Merkuri]

^ Well despite what Koastor insists on believing I wasn't arguing either character winning the match up at all.

However I have hard time understanding how Zelda players think she beats Y-Link.

 

[Dark Hart]

kick -> kick -> kick -> grab-edge -> win -> release mix-tape

 

[KAOSTAR]

im amazed you still have the balls to post. we all know you are virus blue mage.

we also know you can't read good. ive addresses every single point that you have made.

its like im psychic, ive addressed the points you just made already.

you fail to listen to reason. I should beat yo *** for being so dumb.