Mass Effect series discussion

[Archangel]

I like how your complaints about the ending were because some of your choices you made in the game, and misunderstandings of the end.

Spoiler

Like if you were worried about the genophage then why did you cure it?

He never destroyed all organic life, he made them immortal and elevated them to a higher plain of existence so they could join him.

It didn't destroy all AI it destroys all Reaper tech, aka the Geth after the events of 3 and EDI.

There's your complaints nullified, though the fact you never knew all of that above, despite it happening/being explained during the events of the game, makes me think you're just one of those people on metacritic giving the game 0 out of 10 despite not actually having played the game.

Ah I see

Spoiler

if you have a bias toward the ending do to it aligning with your religious views then I can understand how you like it but.

my point is curing the genophage or not doesn't matter.

nothing you do makes a difference is the whole problem. I can make every possible choice in all 3 games rather it's stupid or smart and in the end the only choice I have is over the color of the explosion.

and as far as ascending to a higher plain...that is just a stupid way to end the ME series on some eastern religious bull****. Did the Collectors look like they ascended to a higher plain? Even if you did end it on a religious note, none of that was touched on at all at any point until the end. Perhaps potheads who engage in 'what if philosophy' may be able to see how the ending comes together but those with a functioning brain/don't accept ____god's will or god did it are left with nothing. They should at least have 1 ending choice for people who like stories that sync together or make sense....

What if in the end of the godfather part 2 you find out that the don's family is actually a part of an alien humanoid race. Does it make since according to the story? No it's too far fetch for the story.

http://social.bioware.com/forum/Mas...ffect-3-Endings-Poll-With-Pics-9762561-1.html

look for yourself around the forum as well. Take a good look at the trouble bioware has got themselves into.

 

[Pluvia]

If you've actually played the games

Spoiler

literally one of the first things Soverign says to you is "We are your salvation through destruction", which makes little sense until the events of 2 in which you learn that what he is saying is literally true, they are turning you into Reapers (aka making you immortal) by "destroying" you. In the 3rd one you learn their reason for doing it, which is to save all races from destroying themselves, while at the same time saving themselves from being challenged by another AI.

And I don't know where you're getting the different colour explosion thing being the only difference seeing as though each ending does something different.

There's nothing religious about it. How can you say none of your choices mattered when the only way for that to be possible is if the Reapers win?

 

[O D I N]

http://arkis.deviantart.com/art/Mass-Effect-3-Alternate-Endings-SPOILERS-289902125

Written by a fan.

Better than Bioware.

Spoiler

Not making a choice is still a choice. And I feel that should have been an option from the start.

I'm in the "I didn't like the endings" boat.

 

[Pluvia]

ODIN, that's just the normal ending but instead of making a choice that Shepard decides to do nothing and doom the galaxy.

 

[sakuraZaKi]

http://arkis.deviantart.com/art/Mass-Effect-3-Alternate-Endings-SPOILERS-289902125

Written by a fan.

Better than Bioware.

Spoiler

Not making a choice is still a choice. And I feel that should have been an option from the start.

I'm in the "I didn't like the endings" boat.

Kind of funny how the fan-writer put this in the description:

[collapse=little spoiler/lore info]**SECOND EDIT** I just want to say that I don't think Bioware should change their endings. If you guys haven't heard or seen the 'Indoctrination' theory, I suggest you look it up. Essentially the idea is that once Harbringer zaps you while running for the Conduit, from that point on, it's all a dream/indoctrination. It's really cool, and if it had been properly revealed, would have been amazing. People are theorizing that additional details will be revealed soon. If it's true, I don't think it was a good plan by Bioware, but an awesome idea nonetheless. And yes, this piece below was written with some fanservice in mind.

Ok, so first off, let me say that I liked what Bioware TRIED to do with the ending, I just think it was handled soul-crushingly poorly. SO, I decided while I was bored this morning at breakfast I wanted to try rewriting it to flesh it out some/ try and make sense of it/ give it one other add-on. I know alot of people demand a happy ending, and I don't need that. I'm fine with sad, it made me sad. I just want it to make more sense.[/collapse]
The execution was the problem for me.

 

[O D I N]

ODIN, that's just the normal ending but instead of making a choice that Shepard decides to do nothing and doom the galaxy.

My quote/text whatever was in regards to the fan ending.

Spoiler

I'd rather take a gamble, and see MY efforts and MY choices play out. I want to see that curing the Genophage helped, and having Krogan and Turians fight side by side could make a difference. Ending the Quarian and Geth war should be an asset. I gathered FLEETS. Destroyers, frigates, the Destiny Ascension was SAVED because of me. And for what? So that I can make a total of 3 choices that will kill me (and possibly not), and strand my crew on some planet.

The problem, is that in the end, YOUR choices, DON'T. MATTER. You're left with another Red/Blue/neutral set of options. And the series built up too much to be given that kind of treatment.

I could have gone through the games, killing ALL of my crew, saving no one, not bothering with anything, and the problem is that it will STILL, come down to those three, pitiful choices.

You can try to argue that if you don't have a rating or readiness up, the Earth is still destroyed.

Big whoop.

There's too much that you as a player invested in from Mass Effect 1, to Mass Effect 2, and now into 3, to just have it mean nothing. And for a series based on choices, and having to build up so much to try and take back Earth, to just have it end like that?

The game feels rushed. There's pieces missing, and it doesn't make sense.

Why is the Normandy going through a relay, with your crew members who burned with you when Harbinger attacked? Why is Joker running, abandoning Shepard?

I still stand behind my theory that EA pushed the release date too hard, and Bioware was forced to make adjustments accordingly.

It's not that Shepard didn't have a happy ending.

WAR NEVER CHANGES.

It's that for a series where we made so many choices, the series is not getting what it deserves.

REAL closure.

Here's the best analogy I've seen.

"It's like Mass Effect 3 was this bowl of delicious Lucky Charms that I enjoyed right up until I found that turd at the bottom of the bowl..."

/RANT

 

[Pluvia]

Spoiler

But everything you do is to give you those choices. You are only given options depending on how well you do. If you did everything terribly then you're stuck with Earth being destroyed and the only option you get is destroy. If you don't bother with anything, get your crew killed and save no one, then Earth gets destroyed and you get no choice in anything. Your crewmates survived Harbringer only in your playthrough, when in mine for example they could die because of my choices.

All that fan ending added was Shepard dooming the galaxy. Yeah it's nice that it added in fan service, but it also goes out of it's way to point out that all that fanservice, everything you ever did, is completely and utterly pointless because everyone that has ever existed is dead and all of history will be forgotten. Is that really what people wanted from this game?

I think S4kura is right, people don't care about the story,

Spoiler

they'd rather have a short term "happy" ending that means nothing, than a short term sad ending that is ultimately happy.

 

[O D I N]

All that fan ending added was Shepard dooming the galaxy. Yeah it's nice that it added in fan service, but it also goes out of it's way to point out that all that fanservice, everything you ever did, is completely and utterly pointless because everyone that has ever existed is dead and all of history will be forgotten. Is that really what people wanted from this game?

Spoiler

You obviously were not reading when they mentioned this at the end of the "gambling everything" option.

Spoiler

*The battle that follows is the epic conclusion, as Shepard watches, broken and bleeding, as everything he has put into this unified force throws itself at the Reapers. This is where all those decisions come to fruition. We want to see those War Assets fighting. The Destiny Ascension obliterating a Reaper with it's main gun before being swarmed over by Destroyers, the Geth armada pulling along side to save her. The Salarian STG calling in a biotic artillery strike on cluster of Reaper troops. Wrex and Garrus, on the front sharing a stern moment in cover, before nodding to each other, brothers in arms, before charging over the barricade. Back to back, they face down hordes of husks, Wrex shouting defiantly, "You think you can take our future!? You think YOU CAN TAKE MY CHILDREN?!"
We want to see the Quarian flotilla scrambling, all guns blazing, trying desperately to form a battleline, as one of the admirals quietly turns to their crew, signalling his ship all ahead full. "For the homeworld. Keela..." their words cut off as the live-ship rams a Reaper, exploding spectacularly and damaging two others. We want to see the Normandy frantically weaving through the wreckage, Joker and EDI yelling warnings to one another as the fleets explode around them. We want Tali leading a charge of Geth Primes against a Cannibal gun line. Rachni drones swarming over a Reaper Destroyer by the thousands, pulling it apart from the inside. We want to see Grunt wrestle a brute to the ground and unload his shotgun into his head.

Happy or sad, we just want to see those decisions play out. We want to see that what we did mattered. And as the battle unfolds, you are left with the Choice. Do you think you have enough? As Shepard bleeds out, watching all he/she loved go up in flames, do you take the risk? Provided you have enough manpower, can you break the back of the Reaper fleet, though at horrendous cost? Once the battle is over, and the truth of what the Illusive Man discovered is revealed, the remaining survivors get the word out that there is a way to disrupt the Reaper signal, scatter the Reaper armies. Or something*

At no point in ANY of that, did it say we were doomed. It's a GAMBLE, based on what we DID.

 

[theeboredone]

So, while I haven't finished the game, I'm annoyed that most people are saying you can't get the best ending unless you participate in MP. The Galactic Readiness will stay at 50% otherwise, and you can't get the assets needed (with 50%, you need 10,000, which is impossible.) Good **** Bioware.

 

[Pluvia]

Spoiler

You obviously were not reading when they mentioned this at the end of the "gambling everything" option.

At no point in ANY of that, did it say we were doomed. It's a GAMBLE, based on what we DID.

Spoiler

But it's pointless, none of it matters because the Reapers will win. Maybe if there was like a hundred of them sure it might work, but there's tens of thousands in not hundreds of thousands judging by things. By doing nothing you make every decision pointless because none of it will matter, and everything everywhere will be destroyed and forgotten.

It's not a gamble. It's choosing to lose everything and make all your choices pointless.

 

[O D I N]

Spoiler

But it's pointless, none of it matters because the Reapers will win. Maybe if there was like a hundred of them sure it might work, but there's tens of thousands in not hundreds of thousands judging by things. By doing nothing you make every decision pointless because none of it will matter, and everything everywhere will be destroyed and forgotten.

It's not a gamble. It's choosing to lose everything and make all your choices pointless.

You don't know how to read, do you?

 

[LivewiresXe]

So, while I haven't finished the game, I'm annoyed that most people are saying you can't get the best ending unless you participate in MP. The Galactic Readiness will stay at 50% otherwise, and you can't get the assets needed (with 50%, you need 10,000, which is impossible.) Good **** Bioware.

It's not impossible, it's just you need to do like...literally every side quest in the game and a bunch of tricky stuff. You don't NEED to do Multiplayer, it's just that doing a bit here and there makes it easier.

Oh, and also Pluvia, I care about the story. The same way I care about the universe, and the people in it, which shows Bioware is good at making you care about the people in the game.

 

[theeboredone]

I don't know. I've done almost every side quest so far, and I've made sure of it by running through every civiilan on the Presidum and 100% the galaxies. Also, it's heavily influenced by what you do in ME2 and ME1. Given someone like me who had no chance to play ME1, I am a bit ticked.

I've heard how certain decisions will influence how many points you get, but it shouldn't be to the point where you need a huge chunk more to get to the possible best ending.

 

[O D I N]

Oh, and also Pluvia, I care about the story. The same way I care about the universe, and the people in it, which shows Bioware is good at making you care about the people in the game.

The beginning was good. The middle was good.

Spoiler

Everything until the end. It doesn't do the series justice.

I've always loved the story. I put it above Star Wars when it first came out (the original trilogy).

But this? What we got at the end?

Hardly worth tying it to the series.

 

[LivewiresXe]

I don't know. I've done almost every side quest so far, and I've made sure of it by running through every civiilan on the Presidum and 100% the galaxies. Also, it's heavily influenced by what you do in ME2 and ME1. Given someone like me who had no chance to play ME1, I am a bit ticked.

I've heard how certain decisions will influence how many points you get, but it shouldn't be to the point where you need a huge chunk more to get to the possible best ending.

That's true, but you also get some bonus stuff from ME2 DLC. I didn't get to do ME1 either, remember.

 

[Pluvia]

You don't know how to read, do you?

It's you that doesn't understand.

Spoiler

They could show Grunt taking down 100 brutes, Garrus leading soldiers into battle, Jack taking down 3 banshee's in a dramatic fight, Tali whipping off her helmet and somehow perfecting all of the faces anyone has ever imagined.

But none of it would matter. Ultimately EVERYTHING that has ever happened, and will happen, would be completely and utterly pointless because the Reapers would win. It doesn't matter how much fanservice is involved, doing nothing at the end would doom the galaxy and make everything pointless.

 

[Archangel]

@Pluvia It's like you can't hear or something.

Spoiler

When the reapers kill you that is it, you are not immortal and you don't become a god of anykind you are dead. You are an empty zombie doing what the god AI commands your lifeless body to do. That's it, your actual life and everything you and your species are is gone for good.(unless you are at Javik's level...which we are not in this cycle).

save all races from destroying themselves, while at the same time saving themselves from being challenged by another AI

This logic is flawed at least it can be if you end the fight between geth an quarian....not to mention EDI (a completely unshackled AI) is working with you suggests a flaw in that logic. As far as being challenged by another AI. They don't have to be if they just stay in dark space. Besides, according to that alt story they explain they are more than AI but a Synthetic and Organic combination that would've actually made more sense and could've discussed.

How can you say none of your choices mattered when the only way for that to be possible is if the Reapers win?

Because they DON'T matter that's how I can say it. I can go through every choice from game 1-3 and mix every possible combination and it does not make a difference at all. I'd rather have the Reaper rip my Shepard to bits in the end if it meant that my ending would be different from the next guys. I should control the fate of my character not some glowing kid. The appeal of the game was the choices, if they were just going to stick you with the same choices in the end they might as well have just had the games play through with things happening like all other games.

They tried to steal the Matrix plot but it was badly written and badly implemented. In the end they assumed the fans were too stupid to figure out that your squadmates that got blown to hell with you as you charged the reaper were magically healed and placed on the Normandy....for that alone they've lost the respect of millions. Every hour that passes a new group of people complete the game and a new group of pissed of players emerge.

In the end it's a matter of opinion and everyone is entitled to it. Just as you are free to disagree with Einstein's theory of relativity.

 

[LivewiresXe]

Okay look. Can you guys just please stop this now? I don't even know what that 2nd of the 3 non-spoiler tagged quotes is talking about, but with ALL of these walls of spoiler tags, it's getting increasingly difficult NOT to highlight them. Can the hardcore discussion be over PMs for those of us that haven't beaten it yet, or get held off for a week? Pretty please?

 

[O D I N]

It's you that doesn't understand.

Spoiler

They could show Grunt taking down 100 brutes, Garrus leading soldiers into battle, Jack taking down 3 banshee's in a dramatic fight, Tali whipping off her helmet and somehow perfecting all of the faces anyone has ever imagined.

But none of it would matter. Ultimately EVERYTHING that has ever happened, and will happen, would be completely and utterly pointless because the Reapers would win. It doesn't matter how much fanservice is involved, doing nothing at the end would doom the galaxy and make everything pointless.

I've figured it out.

Spoiler

Not only do you not get it, nor can you entertain the notion of this giant fleet we've amassed to overcome these odds and PROVE THE REAPERS WRONG... WHICH IS THE WHOLE POINT I'm trying to make, and they were trying to make with the fan ending.

You're... YOU'RE...

You're one of them...

YOU'RE INDOCTRINATED!!!

No problem LiveWire.

 

[LivewiresXe]

The hilarious thing is I know EXACTLY where that Shepard GIF is from and it made me laugh my butt off when it happened. Then again...I've laughed a lot playing this game. But they've been times it's been trying to be funny.

 

[Pluvia]

@Pluvia It's like you can't hear or something.

Spoiler

When the reapers kill you that is it, you are not immortal and you don't become a god of anykind you are dead. You are an empty zombie doing what the god AI commands your lifeless body to do. That's it, your actual life and everything you and your species are is gone for good.(unless you are at Javik's level...which we are not in this cycle).

This logic is flawed at least it can be if you end the fight between geth an quarian....not to mention EDI (a completely unshackled AI) is working with you suggests a flaw in that logic. As far as being challenged by another AI. They don't have to be if they just stay in dark space. Besides, according to that alt story they explain they are more than AI but a Synthetic and Organic combination that would've actually made more sense and could've discussed.

Spoiler

The Reapers believe you to be lower than them. They are elevating you to their level to save you from destruction. It doesn't matter what you think, the Reapers don't care, and that logic is sound. It's not a logic you agree with, hence the entire plot of the game, but it is logical. This isn't an opinion, this is explained in the games. The Reapers aren't going to listen to Shepard's opinion on the Geth or EDI, they have 37 million years of experience behind them and consider all other life to be below them.

The rest of what you said weirdly had very little to do with the ending so I never highlighted it, apart from the section about your crew which again can be different in other peoples games depending on their choices throughout the games.

 

[O D I N]

The hilarious thing is I know EXACTLY where that Shepard GIF is from and it made me laugh my butt off when it happened. Then again...I've laughed a lot playing this game. But they've been times it's been trying to be funny.

It was well placed. I did the same thing for a while.

There's lots of moments like that.

 

[Archangel]

Stupidity....

Spoiler

Alright fine I'll entertain your Idea. However....it still doesn't line up at all. If they truly believed what you say then why the hell did they hand over a kill me button to Shepard?

 

[sakuraZaKi]

I swear, you guys use some of the worst analogies I've heard of xD

Spoiler

Alright fine I'll entertain your Idea. However....it still doesn't line up at all. If they truly believed what you say then why the hell did they hand over a kill me button to Shepard?

Spoiler

Because the story of ME isn't the best thought out thing in the universe, I suppose. It's hard to think of futuristic sci-fi lore. Obv., there will be plotholes and failed attempts to convey situations. Which I felt BW didn't do as well with for the ending.

Spoiler

I really didn't like how they made you "OH, THE ONE MAN TO SAVE US ALL" character. I've seen enough of those.

I'm so sorry Livewire, lol.

 

[Pluvia]

I've figured it out.

Spoiler

Not only do you not get it, nor can you entertain the notion of this giant fleet we've amassed to overcome these odds and PROVE THE REAPERS WRONG... WHICH IS THE WHOLE POINT I'm trying to make, and they were trying to make with the fan ending.

Look ODIN, read this very carefully:

Spoiler

The games go out of their way to show that it's impossible to beat the Reapers by conventional means. Even by amassing the best of the best, which you can do, it still wouldn't be enough to destroy the Reapers. Something like 3 Reapers get destroyed during the game? Yet there's hundreds of thousands and they're winning, and can indoctrinate people to their side, and can learn and take their time. No matter what happened in the fight, not matter what small battles could be won, the galaxy will lose the war. That is made very clear.

If you lose, everything you have ever done, the entirety of history and the future of all the galactic races and every individual in them, and all the choices they have ever made, would be completely and utterly pointless. Everything you have ever done in the entire series would be moot.

How is that a good ending? What is good about the ending you want where everything you did didn't matter in the end?

 

[O D I N]

I'm not responding to your indoctrinated babble until next week, as per LiveWire's request.

 

[Archangel]

How is that a good ending? What is good about the ending of Mass Effect 3 where everything you did didn't matter in the end

Finally we are in agreement

 

[Pluvia]

Spoiler

Alright fine I'll entertain your Idea. However....it still doesn't line up at all. If they truly believed what you say then why the hell did they hand over a kill me button to Shepard?

Spoiler

In the destroy ending he destroys it. He shoots it until it explodes. More likely they gave him the control or merge choices and Shepard refused both. I don't know what it says to you if you aren't given the control or merge choices.

Also don't troll I was responding to ODIN's want which was "I want nothing to matter, which isn't what the game gave me the option of choosing".

 

[sakuraZaKi]

You can always PM him, ODIN, lol.

 

[O D I N]

You can always PM him, ODIN, lol.

No, I don't want to be indoctrinated.

That's how they get ya...

 

[Pluvia]

You're on Xbox so plug in your mic.

 

[O D I N]

You're on Xbox so plug in your mic.

 

[Lore]

I spoiled myself on the ending with the wiki.

Pluvia,

Spoiler

are you forgetting the fact that the main reason the reapers always won was because of the Citadel? They always disrupted the center of civilization before attacking, and even after the Prothean empire was shattered, it still took them hundreds of years to finally finish the job. That all implies that a galaxy united would definitely give them trouble.

Also, where did it say that there are hundreds of thousands? Is that directly said in ME3?

I do like the fan ending idea MUCH better.

 

[Pluvia]

I spoiled myself on the ending with the wiki.

Pluvia,

Spoiler

are you forgetting the fact that the main reason the reapers always won was because of the Citadel? They always disrupted the center of civilization before attacking, and even after the Prothean empire was shattered, it still took them hundreds of years to finally finish the job. That all implies that a galaxy united would definitely give them trouble.

Also, where did it say that there are hundreds of thousands? Is that directly said in ME3?

I do like the fan ending idea MUCH better.

That is true but even without the citadel they're easily winning. All it does is remove the element of surprise. Even without it they can still indoctrinate people and blows dealt to the galactic society is much worse than the meager blows dealt to the Reapers because society can't really recover fast enough. It didn't take them hundreds of years to destroy the Protheans because it was a stuggle, it just took them hudreds of years because they're slow, but speed isn't really a factor seeing as though they'll eventually win. Like zombies, except super smart and almost immortal and can brainwash people to their side even when they're inert.

Hundreds of thousands possibly, but at least tens of thousands, judging by the fact they can attack every major planet (and even obscure ones like Noveria) and do enough damage to cripple them. If it was just a few hundred then they could pretty much only do one system at a time, but they're confident enough to be attacking everywhere. We know there's at least 300 from the end of ME2 (super geek moment lol) but judging from the events of ME3 there is FAR more than that. Read the codexes and look at where all the Reapers are and you'll see that tens of thousands is a reasonable guess.

Edit:

Spoiler

I'm pretty sure 90% of the people who were pissed with the ending wouldn't be if the Normandy didn't run away.

 

[O D I N]

Spoiler

I'm pretty sure 90% of the people who were pissed with the ending wouldn't be if the Normandy didn't run away.

That's just ONE of the problems.

 

[theeboredone]

Well I'm a moron. I forgot the usb cable needed to charge my PS3 controller back at campus, and none of my friends didn't bring their PS3s back or have a 360 -_-.

 

[mood4food77]

this game feels short

i'm 26 hours in and i've pretty much done everything when it took me longer to beat the stories of ME1 and ME2

 

[LivewiresXe]

this game feels short

i'm 26 hours in and i've pretty much done everything when it took me longer to beat the stories of ME1 and ME2

Funny. I'm 28-29 hours in and I don't feel more than half, 2/3 (tops) of the way though.

 

[mood4food77]

i either must have missed a lot of stuff or am just that good at this game

i'm going with the latter

or they buffed adepts to the point of brokenness (2 warp-throw combos kills a brute...it's stupid)

 

[LivewiresXe]

I should point out that it's oddly fun if you're a Soldier using "Slam" as your Bonus Power. Even if I was considering using Marksman (which is kind of like Adrenaline Rush, I guess, so it might be redundant), or Carnage.