Hahaha, and the best part is half of the stages look like they have ideal platform heights for tippers.
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Marth's stupidly powerful tipper is back
- Thread starter RyokoYaksa
- Start date
TheMexicanMuffinMan
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Jan 27, 2008
- Messages
- 10
SCORE! This is all the confirmation I need, Marth will continue to be my main man.
But hey... I'll agree with you guys that he's a bit broken to show that I'm not totally ignorant... Agreed?
But hey... I'll agree with you guys that he's a bit broken to show that I'm not totally ignorant... Agreed?
Vortok
Smash Journeyman
The first tipper may've been on the Flying form of Pokemon Stadium. However, there's a second match in the video on Corneria, where Marth displays more god tier, broken character behaviour. At 6:59 he kills Pikachu off the left side at 46% with a nair, though granted the side of the stage is pretty close. At 5:31 Marth tippers Pikachu on the Right side, bounces Pika off the ship, for a KO on the right side.
So... broken. And Marth was one of my best characters in Melee, so no bias from me.
So... broken. And Marth was one of my best characters in Melee, so no bias from me.
JonBeBonanza
Smash Lord
his f-amnash has changed though, correct?
L2space nub nubs.
Marth requires spacing skill. If you have good spacing skill you can avoid the tip and punish him on his lag frames.
He wasn't "broken" in Melee. They reduced his horizontal recovery and took away the power of reverse Dolphin Slash. His standar B move is tougher to use as an edgeguard now as well. He got a little worse, which is exactly what he needed.
Marth requires spacing skill. If you have good spacing skill you can avoid the tip and punish him on his lag frames.
He wasn't "broken" in Melee. They reduced his horizontal recovery and took away the power of reverse Dolphin Slash. His standar B move is tougher to use as an edgeguard now as well. He got a little worse, which is exactly what he needed.
Warlock*G
Banned via Warnings
You seem to know Marth better than I do, so I hope you're right. I'm hoping for as much balance as possible...
... which is why I find some FS to be unfair (GDorf's, Marth's, Falcon's...)... but hey, all those are just for kicks, so I guess I'll have fun running people over with the Blue Falcon. :D
WhiteOblv
Smash Ace
Iplayed it extensively 2day and i hafta say it. Marth is broken now, hes better then he was in melee. Also if ther are any ike mains in the marth forum. Heed my words.
DO NOT use ike against marth.
DO NOT use ike against marth.
Dark Sonic
Smash Hero
^^WhiteOblv-Please write in english next time. This may be the internet, but nobody really enjoys reading stuff like that.
pyroroth
Smash Journeyman
They also reduced lag on his moves.
chimpxstyle
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Feb 3, 2008
- Messages
- 32
He is not broken. He is still very good. It is easier to double Fair but a bit harder to Ken combo (I believe you have to be fast falling for the Dair.) He still has nice throws and tipping. Still a very solid character. Most likely in the top teir.
Gea
Smash Master
LOL. He has an aerial kill move, a spike, reduced lag (which, ironically, is only further speeded up by other characters being slower), a retardedly strong tipper (which, if you played Melee much, isn't that hard to space) and can STILL chainthrow some characters with downthrow.
Yeah, he doesn't seem broken in the least bit. lololol. Even if he turns out to be not quite as bad as we think, he is still around the same kind of broken Sheik was when Melee first came out. She didn't exactly sink in the tiers.
The ONLY two pluses about Marth are now he falls fairly quickly, so he looks like combo fodder, and that his range was slightly reduced. The range thing though isn't as much of a change as you make it appear because horizontal movement was also gimped.
sirmackerel
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Jul 6, 2007
- Messages
- 86
We are. Marth's tipper gives him Ike-like power without the horrendous lag. Fast characters were supposed to have trouble killing people at low percents in Brawl (Fox's upsmash and uair got nerfed, Sheik's fair got nerfed, etc.), but Marth clearly doesn't have this problem, so he getsto enjoy overhwhelming speed AND power yet again.
Witchking_of_Angmar
Smash Lord
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60WWR1by7Qo
1:10
Pit dies at the edge of battlefield with 85%, before the tipper he has 67%.
With good DI, I think he could have lived.
1:10
Pit dies at the edge of battlefield with 85%, before the tipper he has 67%.
With good DI, I think he could have lived.
JonBeBonanza
Smash Lord
so yay nor nay?
marth;s f-smash changed right?
marth;s f-smash changed right?
Neemo
Smash Apprentice
Hee hee... "Ike Like"
Well, it's probably changed a bit, but on a fundamental level all of Marth's moves seem to have made the transition into Brawl intact. I was so sure that Sakurai was going to over-react and nerf him into oblivion, a la Kirby and Pika from ssb64. Go Marth!
Short answer: nay.
Of course, this raises the question: is it possible that Marth wasn't nerfed enough? It seems that Fox and Sheik are weaker but still good, but Marth has hardly been touched at all and may just be too dominant over the competition. Of course, it's too early to say for sure.
Is it possible? Yes. I don't think that anyone would deny that. Is it likely? I'm not sure, but I'm inclined to think not. Marth will still be powerful, perhaps more powerful than any other character in Melee's Big Four, although Falco may give him competition.
I think that the physics engine changes will hit Marth harder than most of us have realized. In Melee, he relied on combos, particularly from shffling and grabs. He also was excellent in his edge game. In Brawl, shffling is effectively dead, or the merest shadow of its former (dominant, I admit self). Grabs are hard to combo out of. Everyone is much harder to edge guard, and because everyone has faster aerials Marth's edge guarding tricks will be available to more characters. I think that those are nerfs enough.
I think that the physics engine changes will hit Marth harder than most of us have realized. In Melee, he relied on combos, particularly from shffling and grabs. He also was excellent in his edge game. In Brawl, shffling is effectively dead, or the merest shadow of its former (dominant, I admit self). Grabs are hard to combo out of. Everyone is much harder to edge guard, and because everyone has faster aerials Marth's edge guarding tricks will be available to more characters. I think that those are nerfs enough.
MookieRah
Kinda Sorta OK at Smash
Everyone also seems to forget that Marth's biggest nerf is that edgeguarding pretty much doesn't exist anymore. That was a large reason why he was so high up on the tiers, cause he had ways to get you off the stage quickly and keep you off.
That said, he looks pretty beastly. Going on my impressions alone he would be in the top 5.
Witchking_of_Angmar
Smash Lord
Edgeguarding does exist, but only in its offstage form, more of an "air guard" as t!mmy calls it. Jigglypuff is amazing at it, as she can go far off stage and can attack without much risk, even with the new airdodge system, which is a huge plus for her. Characters with multiple jumps now get a big edgeguarding plus, and marth's options offstage are pretty predictable, so they can be airdodged easily. Still, I think he will be a medium edgeguarder. If they recover high, he still has the same options as in melee, and if they come low, well, he'll just have to edgehog and try to punish their lag from landing onstage.
In the end, it comes down to the same thing: Marth's EG is hugely nerfed.
Warlock*G
Banned via Warnings
I don't care if he's very good or not, I just don't want him to be broken, that's all.
O_O
*Finally*, a Marth nerf! We *might* be looking at a relatively balanced game! Duh duh duh!
*Does a backward flip and falls down the stairs*
MonsterCC
Smash Cadet
Seems like everyone is all worked up already, but most of us haven't played it.
Let's give it some time.
And if he is broken then you can say I TOLD YOU SO.
Let's give it some time.
And if he is broken then you can say I TOLD YOU SO.
Warlock*G
Banned via Warnings
And then I can say "I don't remember you ever said that", and laugh.
super-7
Smash Journeyman
wow oh no!!!
Superninjabreadman
Smash Lord
Yeah, This guys reasons to support his statment are so good, I may not main marth [/sarcastic]
Marths Edgeguard is worse, his Air Combos are the same if not better, so.. I lose about half 1/4 of my current gameplay. meh, I'll come up with somthing new.
lildude
Smash Rookie
his air combos are not the same. the knockback on his fair was increased to the point where it is nearly impossible to do the ken combo
Pierce7d
Wise Hermit
- Joined
- Dec 20, 2006
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- 1993-9028-0439
(Read only the first page, and this is the second time I've seen the vid)
Well, I'm glad. Between Marth and Meta-Knight, my brawl line-up is done. Back on that high-tier list!
Well, I'm glad. Between Marth and Meta-Knight, my brawl line-up is done. Back on that high-tier list!
Grow some balls.
His range is pathetic, and the doods tipper isn't as strong as it was in melee. So shut up.
Witchking_of_Angmar
Smash Lord
This made me lol. His range is reduced, but it's still one of the biggest in the game (DDD probably has better range with that accursed hammer of his).
Eternal Yoshi
I've covered ban wars, you know
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His FS is a KO, but it can be avoided. If Marth misses, he will SD. Here's proof:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJy7XTySmr8
Emblem Lord
The Legendary Lord
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lol. Even King said Marth is number one right now.
Just accept it. The nerf bat hit all the other top tiers worse then it hit him.
For that alone he is still top tier.
Just accept it. The nerf bat hit all the other top tiers worse then it hit him.
For that alone he is still top tier.
If he uses it on a ledge and misses he will stop at the edge (some one posted a video of it earlier). The potential automatic death is a good addition; makes Marth a little more wary about using it without repercussions.
And yes, Marth didn't get nerfed as much as the other top tiers. But as Mookie said, one of his main advantages is almost completely taken away: edgeguarding. With sweetspotting the edge being automatic and having a range longer than Marth's hitbox goes beneath the stage and having characters float and have higher recoveries, it will be much, much harder for you to edgeguard some one. Does it even it out? No. It's still Marth with his tipper, speed and reach. But it is not as if he on a pedestal preposterously high above every one else; the game has been out for a little over a week. We really know very little about this game right now. Let's just wait and see.
Takeshi245
Smash Champion
All the more reason to main Marth all over again.
Superninjabreadman
Smash Lord
Agreed, although I dont use Marth's tip as much as I do his Aerial game which is hard to keep a combo with if you use the tip every hit.All the more reason to main Marth all over again.
rageagainst
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Oct 23, 2007
- Messages
- 257
ugh i really hate people who use the most broken character in the game or use a character just because some tier sheet (or someone on smashboards) says they are better than other characters. Sure they may have a point, but it destroys the competitive spirit, making the match decided more on char selection than skill. Sure a really good pichu player can kill a fox of lower skill, but if they are ANYWHERE near the same skill level, pichu is owned.All the more reason to main Marth all over again.
Dark Sonic
Smash Hero
Many of us actually like Marth you know. Some like him for his FE game, some like him because of his swift feel, some like him because they just like blue hair or something.