Emblem Lord
The Legendary Lord
- Joined
- Aug 11, 2005
- Messages
- 9,720
- Location
- Scotch Plains, NJ
- NNID
- ShinEmblemLord
- 3DS FC
- 3926-6895-0574
- Switch FC
- SW-0793-4091-6136
Let me start off by saying that Marth has the weakest throws out of the entire cast.
Yes...I know...it sucks. It sucks hard. But just because his throws are weak doesn't mean they are useless. He actually has a great grab, and it gives him what he needs and that's positioning advantage. Marth's throws put his opponent right where he needs them to be to set up his spacing/control game. As a community we need to talk about Marth's grab game and what he can do off of his grabs. Grabs are the best way to deal with shielding so we all have to know how to utilize them to their full potential. We all know what his grabs aren't capable of, but how many in our community know what they ARE capable of? This write-up will serve as an outline of Marth's grabs and how they can used. Hopefully it will give people in this community some ideas and maybe even change the way they see Marth's grab game. I'll talk about each throw, their uses, their damage, set-ups and guessing games as well. I'll also talk about a little something I have been messing around with lately.
F-throw - Marth throws his enemy forward and twist his body around when he does it. Does 4% damage. Doesn't send your opponent far at all. Especially at lower percents. From 0% to 5% you can do f-throw to f-smash. And it's pretty much guaranteed. Tested it in practice mode vs lvl 9's who dodge perfectly. They also DI throws. From 0% to 5% it always hit. So I'm calling it a grab combo from my observations. Does 23% damage altogether since the f-smash will tip. If this can be escaped then I'm guessing the window is pretty small and even if they airdodged, if you expect this then you get a free hit anyway. Which brings me to my next point. People will airdodge throws on reaction, so capitalize on this. Wait for that airdodge then punish with Dancing Blade or re-grab and throw again. Also at lower percents, this puts an opponent at perfect range for Marth's spacing game. From there he can zone with tilts and fairs. So this really helps him in terms of spacing. At higher percents they can DI farther away, so be sure to chase them down. From there I would just zone since it's safer but if you know they will shield then you can grab gain.
D-throw - Marth smashes his opponent into the ground, sending them backwards and takes a little bit more time turning around then he did with his f-throw. Does 5% damage. His opponent doesn't even go that far at higher percents. You may find yourself relying on this more at higher percents, since it has very little knockback. This throw is the perfect spacing/guessing game set-up. At low percents you can also follow-up with an f-smash if they screw up their DI. Usually though you can just wait for that airdodge and then punish or wait for the shield and grab. Again, the safest route is just to go for spaced fairs and tilts, since you can control the pace of the match that way, but if you are feeling like you want to push the advantage then you will want to wait for a reaction usually and then punish it.
B-throw - Marth leans back and tosses his opponent backwards. Does 4% damage. This has the same trajectory as Marth's d-throw. Since Marth takes a little bit longer to recover from this, I see no reason why to use this over d-throw since it's a bit worse.
U-throw - Marth uses his sword arm to throw his opponent into the air. Does 4% damage. Now this is one throw I need to use more. This throw is good for juggling of course. Once your opponent is in the air you want to either wait for that airdodge then retaliate or draw out the airdodge with a fast attack that has little recovery time and then punish. Sounds simple enough, but it takes alot of practice. This throw would be better to use on large opponents who are bigger targets, so it's easier for you to juggle.
So, by looking at this we can see that Marth's throw game is really just about augmenting his control game and giving him an easy way to set-up his zoning. Get the most out of that positioning advantage in his throws to maximize their effectiveness.
Now I'm going to tell you about that little trick I was working on. As you may or may not know, when a character is being pummeled by another character repeatedly, they will get out of the grab and land on their feet on front of their opponent. From there both combatants are at neutral with each other and neither character has frame advantage. Well of course, this works out well for Marth. Since when an opponent gets out of the pummel grab, they will usually be at the distance of a tipper fair or Marth can re-grab if they don't expect it. So he may not get frame advantage. But he gets an advantage in spacing.
So with this little trick. Marth can do one of several things. If your opponent didn't expect to break the grab you can re-grab. If you want to play safe and or just play a spacing game, then proceed to zone with tilts and fairs. Usually a d-tilt since you are both on the ground. If your opponent hesitates or shields just grab. If your opponent is used to this tactic and you notice that they roll, start waiting for that roll and then punish. Usually you will want to play the zoning game or re-grab. Those are usually your best bet. Alot of what you do will just be based on reading your opponents habits, so watch your opponent and pay close attention.
Also let me just give a few tips in regards to Marth's grabs. Marth's standing grab has good range, but his dash grab, not so much. So when you are running be sure to hit shield and then grab when you want to grab. This way you can use his standing grab from a run. Less lag and you get to use that good standing grab range.
Another thing to keep in mind is pivot grabbing. Just dash past your opponent and then hit grab and the analog stick in the direction of your opponent. Marth will wheel around and grab. You can also do this in the initial dash animation. It's very tricky looking when done at very close range and can catch your opponent off guard.
And remember to get in those grab hits before you throw someone. Get that extra damage in and make that grab count. Also grab hits regenerate your moves so that's a plus.
Alright, so that's it. I'll let everyone just talk about Marth's grab game and comment on anything that I said. I just really felt like the Marth community needed to talk about this since it's pretty much his greatest flaw.
Discuss.
Yes...I know...it sucks. It sucks hard. But just because his throws are weak doesn't mean they are useless. He actually has a great grab, and it gives him what he needs and that's positioning advantage. Marth's throws put his opponent right where he needs them to be to set up his spacing/control game. As a community we need to talk about Marth's grab game and what he can do off of his grabs. Grabs are the best way to deal with shielding so we all have to know how to utilize them to their full potential. We all know what his grabs aren't capable of, but how many in our community know what they ARE capable of? This write-up will serve as an outline of Marth's grabs and how they can used. Hopefully it will give people in this community some ideas and maybe even change the way they see Marth's grab game. I'll talk about each throw, their uses, their damage, set-ups and guessing games as well. I'll also talk about a little something I have been messing around with lately.
F-throw - Marth throws his enemy forward and twist his body around when he does it. Does 4% damage. Doesn't send your opponent far at all. Especially at lower percents. From 0% to 5% you can do f-throw to f-smash. And it's pretty much guaranteed. Tested it in practice mode vs lvl 9's who dodge perfectly. They also DI throws. From 0% to 5% it always hit. So I'm calling it a grab combo from my observations. Does 23% damage altogether since the f-smash will tip. If this can be escaped then I'm guessing the window is pretty small and even if they airdodged, if you expect this then you get a free hit anyway. Which brings me to my next point. People will airdodge throws on reaction, so capitalize on this. Wait for that airdodge then punish with Dancing Blade or re-grab and throw again. Also at lower percents, this puts an opponent at perfect range for Marth's spacing game. From there he can zone with tilts and fairs. So this really helps him in terms of spacing. At higher percents they can DI farther away, so be sure to chase them down. From there I would just zone since it's safer but if you know they will shield then you can grab gain.
D-throw - Marth smashes his opponent into the ground, sending them backwards and takes a little bit more time turning around then he did with his f-throw. Does 5% damage. His opponent doesn't even go that far at higher percents. You may find yourself relying on this more at higher percents, since it has very little knockback. This throw is the perfect spacing/guessing game set-up. At low percents you can also follow-up with an f-smash if they screw up their DI. Usually though you can just wait for that airdodge and then punish or wait for the shield and grab. Again, the safest route is just to go for spaced fairs and tilts, since you can control the pace of the match that way, but if you are feeling like you want to push the advantage then you will want to wait for a reaction usually and then punish it.
B-throw - Marth leans back and tosses his opponent backwards. Does 4% damage. This has the same trajectory as Marth's d-throw. Since Marth takes a little bit longer to recover from this, I see no reason why to use this over d-throw since it's a bit worse.
U-throw - Marth uses his sword arm to throw his opponent into the air. Does 4% damage. Now this is one throw I need to use more. This throw is good for juggling of course. Once your opponent is in the air you want to either wait for that airdodge then retaliate or draw out the airdodge with a fast attack that has little recovery time and then punish. Sounds simple enough, but it takes alot of practice. This throw would be better to use on large opponents who are bigger targets, so it's easier for you to juggle.
So, by looking at this we can see that Marth's throw game is really just about augmenting his control game and giving him an easy way to set-up his zoning. Get the most out of that positioning advantage in his throws to maximize their effectiveness.
Now I'm going to tell you about that little trick I was working on. As you may or may not know, when a character is being pummeled by another character repeatedly, they will get out of the grab and land on their feet on front of their opponent. From there both combatants are at neutral with each other and neither character has frame advantage. Well of course, this works out well for Marth. Since when an opponent gets out of the pummel grab, they will usually be at the distance of a tipper fair or Marth can re-grab if they don't expect it. So he may not get frame advantage. But he gets an advantage in spacing.
So with this little trick. Marth can do one of several things. If your opponent didn't expect to break the grab you can re-grab. If you want to play safe and or just play a spacing game, then proceed to zone with tilts and fairs. Usually a d-tilt since you are both on the ground. If your opponent hesitates or shields just grab. If your opponent is used to this tactic and you notice that they roll, start waiting for that roll and then punish. Usually you will want to play the zoning game or re-grab. Those are usually your best bet. Alot of what you do will just be based on reading your opponents habits, so watch your opponent and pay close attention.
Also let me just give a few tips in regards to Marth's grabs. Marth's standing grab has good range, but his dash grab, not so much. So when you are running be sure to hit shield and then grab when you want to grab. This way you can use his standing grab from a run. Less lag and you get to use that good standing grab range.
Another thing to keep in mind is pivot grabbing. Just dash past your opponent and then hit grab and the analog stick in the direction of your opponent. Marth will wheel around and grab. You can also do this in the initial dash animation. It's very tricky looking when done at very close range and can catch your opponent off guard.
And remember to get in those grab hits before you throw someone. Get that extra damage in and make that grab count. Also grab hits regenerate your moves so that's a plus.
Alright, so that's it. I'll let everyone just talk about Marth's grab game and comment on anything that I said. I just really felt like the Marth community needed to talk about this since it's pretty much his greatest flaw.
Discuss.