Marth's chaingrabs on spacies, fair game?

[Powered-By-Sex]

I've been playing Melee for roughly 3 yrs now and have made Marth my main. No matter if it's tournament or friendly, I never sandbag unless I'm too tired to care.

There's certain people I play with that have been complaining about chaingrabs with Marth. They play spacies so I feel inclined to chaingrab them. I get the typical comment like "your Marth is so gay, etc.." a few of my friends though have no problem with the chaingrab as they see that if you're playing to win, do whatever it takes.

I argue that Fox vs. Marth is even and that Falco vs. Marth is in favor against Falco, but it is overall not that bad, but it doesn't matter. I just get the "your Marth is gay, ****ing chaingrabs/gimps"

I really don't know how to argue my case. I feel that the chaingrabs make it fair. The way I see it is:

against Fox: a shine can kill you at way lower %'s compared to chaingrabs and he's a lot faster too than Marth, can't shieldgrab L-cancelled aerials if shined out of.

against Falco: same as Fox, cept you have lasers that are hard to get by, and a spike that can kill you at relatively low %'s potentially.

I feel that the grabs and gimps are necessary for the matchup.

So in closing, umm... how can I argue my case, or should I just play the people that don't care about the grabs (they're actually better players)?

 

[soap]

play better people if u wana get better

 

[ihavespaceblondes]

Anything that ****s up spacies is fair game.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

Yeah seriously, the spacies have so much other **** going for them, people who play as them shouldnt ***** about marth's cg.

 

[Teczer0]

Yea its really not that devastating because there are a lot of ways to avoid it. Plus its only 0-death on FD anyway.

They are just being sore sports imo.

 

[soap]

marth is cheap 2

keep it real

 

[The Irish Mafia]

Is marth v falco in marth's favor? w/e
I think people actually wouldn't john as much about the CG if he had a once - per stock 35 damage grab. The real pisser is how long it lasts, at least that's how I feel when I get CG'd.
Just tell them to not get grabbed, and shield smarter. they shouldn't be getting cg'd if they know how to DI properly

 

[Fletch]

As a Fox main, I say that this is totally cheap and you should absolutely never chaingrab Fox or Falco, it's not like they have cheap **** to abuse you back with.

 

[soap]

As a Fox main, I say that this is totally cheap and you should absolutely never chaingrab Fox or Falco, it's not like they have cheap **** to abuse you back with.

they have comboooooooos

 

[ArcNatural]

Good Foxes and Falcos will never give Marth a break. CG isn't absolutely necessary (see Cactuar) but it definitely helps balance them out in my opinion.

 

[j00t]

All 3 are gay, including Sheik. Main Falcon.

/thread >:3

In all seriousness, chaingrabbing w/ Marth makes the matchups even. Use it. You're playing to win, so next time you see them tell them to start learning how to avoid it (It isn't that hard on non-FD stages). They might even figure out to ban FD against Marths in tournament.

 

[SpongeBathBill]

"Your Marth is so gay" is actually a compliment.

...

A few ways to make your case - in all seriousness - are to point out the fact that you're beating them, encourage them to find ways to beat the CG, or tel them "don't get grabbed." That's what anybody on SWF would tell them if they came whining here

 

[Powered-By-Sex]

"Your Marth is so gay" is actually a compliment.

...

A few ways to make your case - in all seriousness - are to point out the fact that you're beating them, encourage them to find ways to beat the CG, or tel them "don't get grabbed." That's what anybody on SWF would tell them if they came whining here

It doesn't matter if I'm beating them, they'll just say "so gay, no way out of that." It's not just the CG they complain about. For example, like.. if I'm playing against a Falco they'll be like "Falco gets gimped too easily" if I jab and/or dtilt their side B/upB, fsmash, or drop fair from the stage. Same thing applies to Fox. Some times I'll dthrow them off the ledge, then immediately spike, and they'll be like "that's so gay."

Oh and don't get me started about their comments about Sheik (my secondary).

 

[Strong Badam]

how about you tell them to expand their ****ing vocabulary

and then say "no johns"

 

[j00t]

...they'll be like "Falco gets gimped too easily"...

This is a fact for Falco against every character, it's one of his basic weaknesses. Why do they say it like it's a surprising new discovery or something?

 

[SNG]

they can spam/camp all they want if they choose. an i would say a shine spike is just as gay, if not gayer than cg-ing

 

[Rubyiris]

Anyone who complains about Marth is bad.

/Thread.

*Edit*

Post 666. Beastly.

 

[Brightside6382]

no your friend is right cg'ing is teh cheapz. If you want to play fair you can only use mindgrains to win.

 

[Cactuar]

My main reason for not chaingrabbing isn't because I really find it all that cheap. I just think it's really ****ing boring, and is counterproductive in the long run if you don't spend the time learning other aspects of the matchup. Marth can do so many things, and the first thing I see almost every Marth main do vs spacies is "OOOOO GRAB!!!! GRAB GRAB GRAB! UPTHROWGRABGRABGRABGRABGRAB!!!". And then, when they run into a Fox or Falco that knows how to avoid getting grabbed, they complain about how cheap spacies are because they never learned how to actually fight vs them.

I feel like the only times I ever really CG'd spacies earlier in my smash career, I ended up beating players who were considered better than I was. This was mostly because I have always been pretty against CGing, and in those specific situations, M2K asked me to win, so combining my knowledge of actually knowing how to fight in those matchups with a very limited knowledge of how to chaingrab, it temporarily put my ability at a level higher than theirs, and I won. CG is easymode and doesn't really take all that much practice to learn imo, but I don't really find it all that cheap given the nature of the matchups and the advantages held by the spacies.

Edit: If you watch the third match of me vs Forward at Evo, it's pretty obvious that I have no idea how to chaingrab. Everything I did there, I just copied from taking note of what M2K did the day before and that morning, and I pretty much immediately forgot how to cg after that tournament. I didn't practice the chaingrabs before playing that day.

 

[Cosmo!]

My main reason for not chaingrabbing isn't because I really find it all that cheap. I just think it's really ****ing boring, and is counterproductive in the long run if you don't spend the time learning other aspects of the matchup. Marth can do so many things, and the first thing I see almost every Marth main do vs spacies is "OOOOO GRAB!!!! GRAB GRAB GRAB! UPTHROWGRABGRABGRABGRABGRAB!!!". And then, when they run into a Fox or Falco that knows how to avoid getting grabbed, they complain about how cheap spacies are because they never learned how to actually fight vs them.

I feel like the only times I ever really CG'd spacies earlier in my smash career, I ended up beating players who were considered better than I was. This was mostly because I have always been pretty against CGing, and in those specific situations, M2K asked me to win, so combining my knowledge of actually knowing how to fight in those matchups with a very limited knowledge of how to chaingrab, it temporarily put my ability at a level higher than theirs, and I won. CG is easymode and doesn't really take all that much practice to learn imo, but I don't really find it all that cheap given the nature of the matchups and the advantages held by the spacies.

Edit: If you watch the third match of me vs Forward at Evo, it's pretty obvious that I have no idea how to chaingrab. Everything I did there, I just copied from taking note of what M2K did the day before and that morning, and I pretty much immediately forgot how to cg after that tournament. I didn't practice the chaingrabs before playing that day.

I like this post

lol

I'm *** at chaingrabbing and love doin combos, but at low% sometimes i do a couple upthrows cause utilt won't tip and I can't follow up. dthrow is pretty hot **** though depending on where I am when I grab them.

 

[soap]

what happened to the everchanging sig?

for real that one is so gross and disgusting

 

[xLeafybug =D]

Chaingrabbing is fair game. They just can't stand losing.

 

[soap]

i would just wobble your friends until they shut up about marth

 

[Oracle]

Gimps and CG's are huge parts of the game, not just those matchups

Tell your friends to stop whining

 

[bladeofapollo]

As long as you know how to do well w/o chain-grabbing, you're set. The reason I don't like to chain-grab in friendlies is because it's mad easy and there isn't much to learn by practicing it. I'd rather try new things and practice other, more difficult aspects of the game.

That, and chain-grabbing becomes kinda useless at higher percents.

 

[Niko45]

CGing is the most efficient way to get fox to a % where you can start comboing him. It has an immense impact on the matchup, particularly on FD. So yes, learn it, and become proficient at it. Fox is one of marth's worst fights if you don't know how to do it.

 

[Brightside6382]

I like this post

lol

I'm *** at chaingrabbing and love doin combos, but at low% sometimes i do a couple upthrows cause utilt won't tip and I can't follow up. dthrow is pretty hot **** though depending on where I am when I grab them.

You think dthrow is hot? you don't know about Usmash!

 

[Rubyiris]

I personally prefer to grab - throw - tech chase.

 

[Powered-By-Sex]

I think I'm just gonna play Sheik against their spacies and leave Marth for like other characters. I mean, after all, what can you possibly argue is gay about sheik vs. spacies? Discuss?

 

[Rubyiris]

I think I'm just gonna play Sheik against their spacies and leave Marth for like other characters. I mean, after all, what can you possibly argue is gay about sheik vs. spacies? Discuss?

Crouch Cancelled downsmash.

Needles.

Tech chase.

Dash attack.

spacing F-tilts and F-airs on their shield.

Ledgehopped nair edgeguard.

There are plenty of things for scrub**** players to complain about.

I'm a decent player myself, and I usually only complain about my own mistakes, but I will admit that CC Downsmash on Shiek is gay, lol.

 

[Havokbringer]

I really don't know how to argue my case. I feel that the chaingrabs make it fair. The way I see it is:

against Fox: a shine can kill you at way lower %'s compared to chaingrabs and he's a lot faster too than Marth, can't shieldgrab L-cancelled aerials if shined out of.

against Falco: same as Fox, cept you have lasers that are hard to get by, and a spike that can kill you at relatively low %'s potentially.

I feel that the grabs and gimps are necessary for the matchup.

You already answered your question.

You knew it all along, I think you just needed our approval to satisfy your justification.

Teach your friends how to up throw> up air with fox and they'll stop complaining.

And if they do that already then tell them to practice more because it seems like they arent at a level to compete with you yet.

 

[EpicFear]

I mean...if it works it works.

enough said

 

[TPoint1BUA]

but I will admit that CC Downsmash on Shiek is gay, lol.

CC Rest is even better. Lol Dash Attacks. Also sometimes you can crouch under falcon's JC grab and then rest.

But related to marth, my favorite is tech chasing. My friend gets really angry.

 

[Rubyiris]

CC Rest is even better. Lol Dash Attacks. Also sometimes you can crouch under falcon's JC grab and then rest.

But related to marth, my favorite is tech chasing. My friend gets really angry.

CC rest is much more situational, and only applicable at really low percentages. =[

 

[AceDudeyeah]

I've always needed help vs spacies with Marth, NOT using chaingrabs.

It's just, their physics and that weird way they don't wanna fall over at early percents makes it hard to keep on 'em below high percents.

Maybe I should go watch cactuar vids, any other suggestions, people?

 

[Meneks]

no your friend is right cg'ing is teh cheapz. .

You chaingrab in friendlies.

 

[Brightside6382]

You chaingrab in friendlies.

I'm all business when I play.

 

[AlcyoNite]

no johns my friend.

Though cactuar may not agree, i think the whole premise behind marth>falco is because of the CG.

 

[Havokbringer]

Well I think what Cactuar meant by not CGing is that when you do it to spacies at early percents its to rack up damage and from around 40% and on its to set up up combos.

So CGing isnt the only way to Rack up damage thus making the CGing not totally nesessary.

But what it does do is keep them trapped for a certain amount of percent making the damage you take 0.

CGing is also one of the best ways to scare your opponent, if dont correctly, it will make them afraid of getting anywhere near you thus giving you control of the match.

Highly Advise you to learn how to CG.

 

[Rubyiris]

no johns my friend.

Though cactuar may not agree, i think the whole premise behind marth>falco is because of the CG.

Grab - Throw - Edgeguard.

Do this 4 times.

I know it's not exactly that simple, since I play both characters, but it sure feels that way. Falco is such an easy character to play against with Marth.