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Marth's chaingrabs on spacies, fair game?

Teczer0

Research Assistant
Premium
BRoomer
Joined
Mar 25, 2007
Messages
16,861
Location
Convex Cone, Positive Orthant
no johns my friend.

Though cactuar may not agree, i think the whole premise behind marth>falco is because of the CG.
Actually at a point I thought very similar. But I've recently been playing falco for fun and although CG does hurt its not the main reason for marth being generally good vs falco.

Marth has a lot of way to hurt Falco's laser game, and his throws can lead to very bad positions for falco other than the CG. In other words, I'm disagreeing with you that the CG is the reason why Marth > falco



My main reason for not chaingrabbing isn't because I really find it all that cheap. I just think it's really ****ing boring, and is counterproductive in the long run if you don't spend the time learning other aspects of the matchup. Marth can do so many things, and the first thing I see almost every Marth main do vs spacies is "OOOOO GRAB!!!! GRAB GRAB GRAB! UPTHROWGRABGRABGRABGRABGRAB!!!". And then, when they run into a Fox or Falco that knows how to avoid getting grabbed, they complain about how cheap spacies are because they never learned how to actually fight vs them.

I feel like the only times I ever really CG'd spacies earlier in my smash career, I ended up beating players who were considered better than I was. This was mostly because I have always been pretty against CGing, and in those specific situations, M2K asked me to win, so combining my knowledge of actually knowing how to fight in those matchups with a very limited knowledge of how to chaingrab, it temporarily put my ability at a level higher than theirs, and I won. CG is easymode and doesn't really take all that much practice to learn imo, but I don't really find it all that cheap given the nature of the matchups and the advantages held by the spacies.

Edit: If you watch the third match of me vs Forward at Evo, it's pretty obvious that I have no idea how to chaingrab. Everything I did there, I just copied from taking note of what M2K did the day before and that morning, and I pretty much immediately forgot how to cg after that tournament. I didn't practice the chaingrabs before playing that day.
For a second, I forgot you played marth. You been playing fox for so long its seems like you were always a fox player LOL.
 

MexicanBJ

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 24, 2008
Messages
211
ok, if i may offer my humble opinion....i am quite experienced in the ways of ****** johns, and it is quite evident that your friends have some good fcuking johns

basically, the way i see it, the best way to **** the sort of john your friends seem to be making is to beat/**** them at their own matchup, i.e. play fox/falco or w/e they're using and **** their marth/sheik (this is kinda taking for granted that you can actually accomplish this). if you cant....um...learn to cuz you clearly sound like the better player

once you have accomplished this....it kinda goes without saying that either one of two statements must be true: 1. the matchup isn't rigged (marth isn't cheap/gay/w/e) or 2. you're way better

either way, you win.

now with my extensive knowledge of johns, it seems that your noobs could potentially then go on to say a number of things:

"yea...well i dont know how to cg or gimp"
answer: you suck. learn it an ill still **** you

or "yea well im not experienced with marth/dont spend time learning his stuff"

answer: im not experienced with fox/falco and it's not my fault i spend time to get good at the game. also, you dont really need that long to learn cg'ing, so if you cant, you suck.

now these responses/strats may seem harsh at first, but who cares, it'll shut them up.

gg.
 

Stratford

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 22, 2008
Messages
2,470
Location
Malden, MA
Good ****, BJ.

As you pointed out, this will often be countered with "you forgot I don't actually play Marth."
 

KILLA.FOR.CASH.

Smash Champion
Joined
Apr 2, 2006
Messages
2,916
Location
Fullerton, Socal
the only stage u can really chaingrab efficiently at is FD... and spacies ban that **** against me anyways...

i havent done a decent chaingrab combo in such a long time =[ i just bthrow or dthrow techchase now
 

AlcyoNite

Smash Champion
Joined
May 1, 2007
Messages
2,332
Location
**** Triangle, NC
u could also try showing them videos of fox and falco destroying marths. as we all know, its legitimately possible.

"but those guys are pros and know how to do that"

"learn; get better; stop whining"

really, at this point, their excuses are worth nothing more than whining
 

Powered-By-Sex

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jun 7, 2008
Messages
117
Location
LA(213)/UCSD
you all make good points. Oh, a side note, I did an MM with one of the guys, it was a Marth ditto, best of 5.....


3-0'd him. Note: didn't get paid, but I'm ok with that.
 

Nø Ca$h

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 15, 2009
Messages
2,726
Location
Philadelphia PA
ill only cg spacies if im roy.

like cactuar said u learn NOTHING by chaingrabing, and ur skill doesnt increase.

but if u wanna stick w/ ur style, by all means do it. simply tell ur friends to get sheik as a secondary. teach them sheiks cg on marth (and others).
 

Cactuar

El Fuego
BRoomer
Joined
Mar 10, 2006
Messages
4,820
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Philadephia, PA
Lol. You don't learn nothing, you just don't spend as much time in the push and pull, so you don't learn the matchup as quickly imo. Chaingrabbing is still useful when you need to win, but I have never really felt like I need to practice it because its so easy... all you need is a rough idea of when to start utilting lol.
 

Havokbringer

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 21, 2006
Messages
1,328
Location
El Sobrante,CA
Yeah I agree with CG being useful when you need to win.

Its what makes spacies afraid of being grabbed by marth after all.(mostly)
 

XLII

Smash Cadet
Joined
Sep 13, 2008
Messages
28
Location
Greenville, SC
Try playing as Peach and using that chaingrab, since I started using Peach, my Marth doesn't get complained at at all by my spacies playing friends. XP
Other than that I recommend you either find something more annoying that will have them asking for the old to get back, or suck it up and take it. That or you can complain back until they get so sick of it that they stop bothering you so that you stop bothering them, but that puts strains on friendship
 
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