Marth Q&A-Ask your questions here!!

[FrostByte]

Japanese DI is only useful against a small amount of moves (sheild breaker, low % ko moves) and under extreme conditions (low sheild). It requires crouch cancelling the attack then SDI-ing in the perpendicular direction when you can just shield it.

 

[Dark Sonic]

Actually you have your sticks backwards. You use the c-stick the SDI and ASDI while using the control stick to input the DI you would need to survive the hit. That way you ASDI into the ground to try to tech, but if you miss the tech you still survive the hit because you also input the survival DI with the control stick.

Quarter Circle DI is what it sounds like. You move the control stick or c-stick in a quarter motion along the area where the best DI for trying to tech would be as you are getting hit by a move. As long as the stick is in motion when you enter the hit lag of the attack, you'll get at least one SDI. The SDI will be the same as the position of the control during the individual frames of hit lag. Try it out with a mine in training mode. Put your damage at max, lay the mine at the edge and when you up B continue moving the control stick along the path you would use to angle your up B (though the motion itself will be a little slower.)

 

[Andrew Ott]

Sonic about your ledgeteching question a few pages back, I think people ub+B instead of airdodge because, for one, it's harder, and two, if you can sweetspot the ledge with Dolphin Slash it's much safer than airdodging, which lags you. Most of the time you see repeated Up+Bs it's the person missing sweetspots.

I wonder, do you have to use both shoulder buttons to do that or just one?

 

[JesiahTEG]

Ok, I guess I was wrong. Thanks for clearing that up though guys.

 

[knightpraetor]

umm, sonic, shouldn't it be

C-stick: asdi only (overwrites control stick)
control stick: smash di and regular di as well as asdi when C-stick is at neutral

there's a post on DI somewhere, that's what i remember off the top of my head though.

anyways, i use the control stick and quarter circle it too. but i definitely find marth's harder to tech with than other characters

 

[Salaad]

I'm getting better every hour, chain grabs, Pivoting consistently(learning), SHFFLing, Edguarding a lot better...But with Ken combos, I Fair them off the stage, then when I go to Fair again, it hits them too far...

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Sweet, thanks Sonic Wave, I'll be sure to try out the quarter circle.

Salaad, I'm pretty sure the Ken Combo is fair to dair... at certain percentages they will go too far to be dair'd. You can try soft...spotting the fair, or waiting a moment before rejumping to the dair, since Marth is floaty enough so that your opponent will fall faster than you, usually. If that makes sense.

 

[Takeshi245]

I've read that Yoshi has some advantage over Marth. Is it true?

 

[elvenarrow3000]

I really really doubt that. Yoshi's strong points are his Crouch Cancel and his double jump resistance. The first is counterable by a shffl'd dair or good spacing, and the second can be beaten by waiting for him to stop making that weird... moaning sound.

 

[Salaad]

Would it be good to < B them once and then go for the spike?

 

[Aesir]

Or you know you can just use your minds eye and fsmash. >.>;

 

[Salaad]

Fsmash...I've been using it too much lately (Along with Dtilt, Ledgehopped Bair, Shield Breaker) So I'm looking to use something new xD

 

[Aesir]

just use your minds eye, you don't need anything new. >.>;

 

[elvenarrow3000]

...minds eye? You'll have to teach me that one.

Just wait for them to hit the peak of their jump and fsmash. That's a good edgeguard.

 

[knightpraetor]

dude, once i gain a splinter of the mind's eye i'll be unstoppable...

I hear with that technique you can tech into wavedashes..i mean how hot is that

 

[Andrew Ott]

If you mean ledge tech > double jump > reverse waveland, then that would be awesome.

*goes to try it*

 

[FrostByte]

I've read that Yoshi has some advantage over Marth. Is it true?

Yoshi does away with Marth's strong point because he is one of the most difficult characters to edgeguard, and won't die until higher percents (While edgeguarding Marth as Yoshi isn't so hard with reverse egghogs and dtilts). On another note, he's hard to space against since his head sticks out slightly and usually gets knocked further when tippered, making him harder to combo.

 

[Dark Sonic]

Sonic about your ledgeteching question a few pages back, I think people ub+B instead of airdodge because, for one, it's harder, and two, if you can sweetspot the ledge with Dolphin Slash it's much safer than airdodging, which lags you. Most of the time you see repeated Up+Bs it's the person missing sweetspots.

I wonder, do you have to use both shoulder buttons to do that or just one?

But, it's really not that laggy. You saw the Ken vs. Azen match, right? Ken did several ledgetechs in a row and yes sweet spotting would've helped, but he could've also airdodged onto the stage after any one of those foward smashes. He might've even been able to get a grab on Azen during the f-smash's lag, which would've gotten a lot of pressure off of him.

You only have to use one shoulder button. I think it might be possible to waveland onto the stage after a wall tech jump if you time it and angle it right. It won't be a true waveland, but it can get pretty close to it.

umm, sonic, shouldn't it be

C-stick: asdi only (overwrites control stick)
control stick: smash di and regular di as well as asdi when C-stick is at neutral

there's a post on DI somewhere, that's what i remember off the top of my head though.

anyways, i use the control stick and quarter circle it too. but i definitely find marth's harder to tech with than other characters

Yes, your right. My bad.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=60218

If your not comfortable with moving the control stick slowly throught the whole up B you could just wait a little after the up B starts and then start moving the control stick right before you hit the wall.

 

[Andrew Ott]

Yeah that would've worked, maybe it's hard to think of stuff like that in tourney matches? I saw M2K do it once vs PC.

Also, when a Fox D-throws me facing away from edge, if I press the same controls for tech rolling the D-throw, I can ledge tech it and jump up and backwards over his head instantly (with the backfilp it looks awesome). I should be able to waveland after it seeing as I go almost as high as a short hop above the ground. Maybe holding diagonally up after the tech doesn't walljump but instead jumps?

 

[JesiahTEG]

Yoshi does away with Marth's strong point because he is one of the most difficult characters to edgeguard, and won't die until higher percents (While edgeguarding Marth as Yoshi isn't so hard with reverse egghogs and dtilts). On another note, he's hard to space against since his head sticks out slightly and usually gets knocked further when tippered, making him harder to combo.

Haha, Marth definitely has the advantage though, due to the fact that he's just by far an overall better character. It's kinda sad to see a yoshi double jump from under the stage and Marth Fsmash him and just watch Yoshi fall to his death. Poor yosh.

 

[Goodies]

I've played against a really good Yoshi with Marth and my Marth is above average. I would say that Marth has a slight advantage against a Yoshi of the same skill level; however, the Marth main has to be aware of Yoshi invunerable frames from his fsmash, his DJC aerials into between your combos, set knockdown from his dtilt and his good edgeguard game on Marth.

Marth has to build up damage in order to begin effective combos usually started from grabs and fairs. It's also possible to gimp Yoshi in between his DJC aerials and perform combo that are incredibly hard for Yoshi to escape. For instance, some Yoshi's like to Full a Bair and sneak in a Nair to add more pressure. You can sneak in a few fairs in between the Nair and start some juggles. A Fair -> weak hit Up air -> Nair (more knockback)/Fair(more combo options) are good starters. You may be able to end the weak hit Up Air with a Fsmash. If he's towards the edge, he's in big tourney and have few options to recover because you got rid of his second jump in between his Nair.

As mentioned earlier, Yoshi's edgeguard game against Marth is actually really good. He can set up a dtilt near the edge which has a set knockback no matter what percent you've accumulated and can DJ edgehog. It's really fast and you are left with low options in recovering back on stage. Good Yoshi's will position you will eggs if you are delaying your recovery and will smack you back off via dtilt, dsmash or fsmash (has leanback and usually performed if you try to fair them in between over B recovery).

Yoshi's combo ability on Marth is great too. Especially when he's directly below you. He'll string together a lot Up Air and will use eggs to rack up damage, continue juggles and make you whiff aerials.

Also note that Yoshi can not jump out of his shield which means that he wont be able to wavedash out of shield to punish missed fsmashes. So it's possible to Fsmash and tip his shield to cause a lot of shield stun to keep him on the defensive. Yoshi can DJC through some of your fsmash into an aerial, so be prudent about how you land the Fsmash.

As far as stage choices go, I think that Battlefield is one of the best against Yoshi because platform will help you with juggles and Yoshi will have a hard time manuevering around your aerials and landing his own. Because it's Battlefield, the Yoshi main will have more trepidation in DJ edgehogging and that will reduce his edgeguard options. PS and FD are great for Yoshi and on average you wont be killing Yoshi until really high percents (110-130%) with most of your kills being from up tilts, fairs combo into tippers, Ken combos and reverse Dolphin slash. This matchup definitely should not be overlooked. You will need to know how to play this matchup or you will get owned!

 

[knightpraetor]

Also note that Yoshi can not jump out of his shield which means that he wont be able to wavedash out of shield to punish missed fsmashes. So it's possible to Fsmash and tip his shield to cause a lot of shield stun to keep him on the defensive. Yoshi can DJC through some of your fsmash into an aerial, so be prudent about how you land the Fsmash.

quoted for emphasis...abuse and punish not saying you can just fsmash spam, but you can certainly use it a lot more than usual..making this matchup a lot easier than most others

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Haha, Marth definitely has the advantage though, due to the fact that he's just by far an overall better character. It's kinda sad to see a yoshi double jump from under the stage and Marth Fsmash him and just watch Yoshi fall to his death. Poor yosh.

I LOVE doing that. Marth's sword just becomes a massive DENIED stamp.

 

[knightpraetor]

question: which moves hit below the stage..ie aren't sweetspottable? i heard the shieldbreaker hits below the stage unlike the fsmash..so sweetspotting doesn't help..is this true? i think dtilt and fsmash definitely only hit on stage though..does marth have any other options that hit below the stage?

 

[Aesir]

I'm pretty sure marths fsmash hits below, just use your minds eye.

 

[knightpraetor]

are you serious or not..i think you're kidding??

anyways, i'm also curious about fair as an edgeguard..i watched taj edgeguard marth by jumping over the up b and fastfalling the fair to hit the marth..does that hit the edge? is there any advantage over just spacing a fsmash besides the fact that it doens't require as much time to space?

 

[purekorea]

If you time it right you can pause the game and see that the fair does reach under the stage by a little bit.

I would think the advantage is that if they tech you can react faster or if they don't tech it might lead to a Ken combo or more fairs and the like.

As for hitting under the stage a Dair timed right is probably his lowest reaching attack from the stage

 

[elvenarrow3000]

I've seen Azen use the dair to anti-sweetspot, so it should work. Dunno about the fair, even if you could hit them with it, they could use it to get back on.

 

[ZIO]

I've got a question. I've got a decent marth, being able to do all the advanced techniques and whatnot. But I'm still losing to someone who I consider to be on the same skill level as me, and he uses mario/yoshi/link. I've been told I need to work on my mind games, so my question is what is Marth's most effective mind game?

 

[purekorea]

Being unpredictable... not having a pattern...

if you want something tangible dashdancing to grab might be one....WD back fsmash...

technically "everything" can be a mindgame.

 

[ZIO]

So there's no real way to fool an opponent. Darn . . . I've become too predictable, and I was just hoping there would be something to help me. I have tried to change things up, but I'm not doing it right.

Ah well, thanks for the help.

 

[TedBoosley]

You can't call a single thing a 'mindgame', since the 'mindgames' are the entire mental (non-technical) aspect of the game. Prediction, etc. Think of mindgames the same way you try to read your opponent in a game of chess, thinking x number of moves in advance when deciding what to do this move, while at the same time trying to disrupt your opponent's ability to predict you.

Basically, what PK said. Be erratic, while at the same time looking for patterns, weaknesses, etc in your opponent's style.

 

[purekorea]

ZIO it helps if you record yourself play and try to catch your own pattern. Helped me out alot, I have some new vids I'm watching right now a recent tourny I went to and I found about 3 or 4 things that I'm doing wrong leading me to be predicable.

I would say a good thing is Never stay still dashdancing in place for a extended period isn't good either. Just don't keep a pattern... Dashdance and fair; next time dashdance rush and WD back.

Once you get unpredictable you can spend time in game figuring out what your opponents habits are instead of thinking about what you are doing wrong. Pretty much Ted's last sentence as well.

a hint... try to catch a pattern to how they react at the start of each match. I have a friend as soon as the game says "go" he jumps or walks to the left side of the stage. So each start of the match is a free hit for me and you'll be in his head for the rest of the match =)

 

[ZIO]

That was alot of help, purekorea. I had never ever thought of watching me play. That can be very helpful. Thanks!

 

[Aesir]

You know what helps? awakening your minds eye so you can land tippers all the time like Emblem Lord.

 

[Shiri]

Hehehehe, nevermind. LOL!

 

[Dark Sonic]

I've seen Azen use the dair to anti-sweetspot, so it should work. Dunno about the fair, even if you could hit them with it, they could use it to get back on.

The fair has enough stun to let you hit them again if they don't tech it. Free spike if they don't DI it right or *random push away edgeguard* if they do. More edgeguarding if they tech and try to up B again. It's still a lose lose situation for the opponent, just not one you'd think of right away when you're edgeguarding.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Aesir: How in the world did you know about my ability to land tippers like 90% of the time when I throw out an f-smash? That's like... an NJ state secret. >_>

 

[pockyD]

wiggle the yellow stick and win

 

[Aesir]

Aesir: How in the world did you know about my ability to land tippers like 90% of the time when I throw out an f-smash? That's like... an NJ state secret. >_>

Inui likes to talk.......<.<