Mario Questions and Answers; Ask here first!

[ThatGuy]

Oh, I get what you mean now. Basically, you mean its like your definition of b-reversal but you're still facing the same direction, but you're still bouncing backwards. I've seen Snakes and Pikachus do it with their DownB moves. I don't know if thats even possible for Mario, I never ever seen it happen. I always thought both those terms meant the same thing. ((and still kinda do.))


EDIT: Caleb! You have 999 post count! Be sure to make your next post in the Mario boards :D

It's what I was trying to do at Kingkong's smashfest. B-Reverse is easy. Wavebounce is very technical with Neutral B. Wavebounce cape is easier and is also practical for positioning, but takes a good amount of practice to do it naturally. If Falco can do it with lasers then Mario can surely do it with Fireballs.

I'm actually going to try practicing these a bit more now while I still have the Wii .

EDIT: Okay, here are some steps to practice how to do it:

1) First you must RAR fireball. We all hopefully know how to RAR Bair so this is the same concept. If you do not turn around before the jump you will not get the desired effect. Practice doing just RAR fireballs for awhile to get as close timing of the fireball right after the jump a possible. The fireball in this instance should be traveling opposite of where you were running towards.

2) As soon as the fireball is coming out, input the opposite direction (this is the direction you were running towards). You should have a funny bounce effect where you bounce back a bit and then keep moving forward. Keep trying to replicate this bounce effect. The fireball in this instance should be traveling in the direction you were running towards.

3) Once you can achieve this bounce effect, input the opposite direction again, to force your momentum backwards. This will use the bounce effect as a complete momentum changer, allowing you to fire the fireball forward while going backward at full speed. The fireball in this instance should be traveling in the direction you were running towards.

The final input sequence is:
-> (To run forward)...<-, Jump, B, ->, <-

 

[fromundaman]

Thanks Thatguy.

I can actually do it semi-consistently with Wolf Kirby and Mario as long as I don't try to figure out what I'm doing. As soon as I try to figure it out and explain, I fail again.

 

[A2ZOMG]

We marios need to talk about the "Wavebounce" fireballz tech. Anyone here knows to do it?

I implement these every so often.

The thing that ThatGuy mentioned, it's really good especially when you have people conditioned to defend against B-air approaches. What I'm trying to work on is doing these in a short hop, which is retardedly hard, although doing it in a fullhop usually is pretty good.

 

[ThatGuy]

Really? I can only do it in shorthops! Fullhop is even more difficult for me lol.

One application for this is to force the opponent to halt to gain some breathing room. I can picture using this to open some space for a SH B-Reverse fireball approach.

 

[A2ZOMG]

I dunno, when you fullhop, you have more time to input each individual turnaround while maintaining full horizontal momentum. That's the problem I have with the shorthop wavebounce fireball. I can't easily input all the turnarounds in time and I just end up shooting fireballs forward in a really unsafe manner.

Either way, I know it's pretty legit when mixing up your approaches.

 

[Calebyte]

Guys, how do I punish rolls with Mario? I was playing my little bro over break. He's decent, plays Fox. Anyway, the kid loves to spam forward roll. I can't figure out how to punish it. Only thing I could think of was to try and read the roll and f-tilt, but that didn't really work all the time.

 

[ThatGuy]

You can only punish them on prediction, not reflex (for the most part). Force the roll and punish within the frames that they are left vulnerable coming out of the roll. Long lasting hitbox moves like Nair, Dair, and Usmash work well.

 

[Inferno3044]

You can only punish them on prediction, not reflex (for the most part). Force the roll and punish within the frames that they are left vulnerable coming out of the roll. Long lasting hitbox moves like Nair, Dair, and Usmash work well.

Basically this. Either what you were doing or Dsmash.

 

[fromundaman]

Really? I can only do it in shorthops! Fullhop is even more difficult for me lol.

Same here, I can't do it out of full hops. Pretty much only able to do it out of shorthops and knockback.



When people roll through me, I either punish with Usmash, or if it's a bad roll (lol@G&W) just jab as they roll through you when their invul frames disappear. If you play a character with a ridiculously good roll like Lucario, you pretty much have to predict that ****.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Punishing rolls...firstoff make sure you're not playing wifi. Secondly, just have good reactions, and make sure you don't commit heavily on your poke game. Be good at baiting as well, since you'll need it to make up for Mario's relatively low range.

Reacting to the roll and punishing isn't the hard part. The tricky part is baiting effectively.

I run backwards and pivot grab here and there when I expect forward rolls. It's virtually safe (only punishable on a hard read, or by Sheik pretty much).

imo, it's more important to know how to punish back rolls with Mario, since it's a slightly weaker area for Mario.

 

[Coolwhip]

I feel dumb. I already knew how to "wavebounce" fireballz, been doing it all this time by watching videos of flameleon. I just never herd of a wavebounce fireball tech.
I love to mix-up my fireball attacks though. FH,SH & ground. Wavebounce fireball approach
is pretty legit. Little tricky @ first but i got it down pack now.

 

[JuxtaposeX]

I occasionally wavebounce fireballs by accident

 

[~ Gheb ~]

You can punish a roll on reaction if you are in a neutral position as long as you don't commit to a laggy move. If he rolls behind your jab1 you can easily turn around and ftilt him right in time. If you know he likes to do this a lot you can jab him and then fsmash into the other direction if you're ballsy enough.

A good way to cover rolling behind you are empty jumps to bait a reaction. If the expected roll happens you can just nair / dair him easily. It also covers his spotdodge because you can beat it exactly the same way.

 

[SKidd]

Anyone ever teamed with a Pika?


Tips please




Thanks

 

[JuxtaposeX]

Hmmm, if Pika can get a chaingrab going, you can maybe caperape the upsmash finish

 

[Inferno3044]

I need help with not getting punished by nado while im fireball camping. Anyone wanna help me out.

 

[Omari]

I need help with not getting punished by nado while im fireball camping. Anyone wanna help me out.

Wall of text alert...WARNING! Did my best to break it down into sections so it would be simpler on the eyes.

Camping against MK (Important!) - When camping, its imperative to maintain your ground (goes for any character). Its important that you don't pressure yourself offstage which is a common mistake people make in brawl. Why should I maintain my position, won't I be a sitting duck? No, Smash has different areas to take into account when brawling. Example: Ground game versus ledge game. Clearly MK beats Mario on ground (won't talk too much about why) & is even dangerous when Mario's on a ledge. Which option would you prefer? Bad or worse? You don't want to back yourself into corners you necessarily can't get out of. IMO, Mario's ledge game (as a character) is pretty good. Against gimp kings (as I like to say) like MK, you'd want to be on the ledge as least as possible.

Just how long is TOO long? - Another common mistake people make is camping for too long. I like to think about brawl characters having a personal space around them. Yes I know this sounds weird but think about a crowded bus or train for example. How close would you allow a person from the street to be next to you before you reacted? Same concept applies to brawl. How close would you allow MK to be to you before you reacted (AKA stopped camping, etc...?) to them? Some people may say a quarter of the stage. I'd recommend about a third of the stage (probably a half depending on the MU). Honestly, you don't want to let MK have a read on you (anytime of the match). The MU is already in his favor by a landslide so you'd want Mario to be as broken as possible.

Ways MK can punish Fire Ball - From my experience with the MK:Mario MU, do your best not to throw a fireball the same way twice camping wise. Lets say you Short Hop Fire Ball (SHFB) MK then threw another fireball the exact same way? The MK will most likely read you & punish accordingly. Example: MKs can simply walk (or run) under airborne fireballs when they bounce on the ground. If MK's most likely to go aggro, you can ground fireball them (B-reverse, Pivot fireball, B-over IDK whatever you want to call it) instead. Basically against smart campers, all they attempt to do is read how you utilize fire balls.

Fire Ball Creativity - Be creative with the way you throw your fireballs, there are much more ways to shoot a fire ball than you think. May I have some examples? For starters you can Ground Fire Ball (GFB) for landing traps, jab-lock setups, forcing stand ups, aggro brawlers (people who're most likely to run straight at you), etc. Short Hop Fire Ball (SHFB) for approaching, spacing (whether that would be jab, tilts, smashes, airs, even more fireballs work too ha ha), manipulating, etc. Full Hop Fire Ball for air setups mostly. Cape Fire Ball (any hop/mid air jump) for mind games mostly. Pivot Fire Ball (B-over, B-reverse, etc) for cheap knockouts (gimps). There are much more reasons & ways we are able to shoot fire balls but I'm just attempting establish a general concept. Becoming a top notch innovative Mario main is part of my 2011 goal/objective etc...

*I'm going to stop here for now to keep a long story short. Let me know if I did or didn't answer your question. If there's anyone who doesn't agree with any part (or anything) I've said, Enlighten me on your views. Thanks.

 

[Matador]

Good stuff Omari. Yeah, mixing it up is a big part of it, Inferno. Just remember, nado > sh fire ball camping if reacted to...same way our dair beats spotdodge.

However, simply being prepared and positioned properly > nado. We have quite a few ways to deal with nado if we're not caught offguard.

Hope this helps broham...when am I gonna see u at an mdva tourney?

Edit @ Calebyte: Listen to Gheb and A2Z...baiting out a bad habit is the best way to punish it.

Use the Boss strategy...

Jab them...

Then wait...

Ballsy, I know. You wouldn't believe how often this works once you're in the opponent's head.

 

[Inferno3044]

Thanks Omari. The camping too long thing I think might've been my problem. As most people know (and I repeatedly say) I play with Pierce a lot since we are good friends. He has made me afraid of MK because he knows how to shut me down. It makes me afraid to approach. I think I just gotta approach more and tak momentum.

 

[Coolwhip]

I've enjoyed reading your mario advice omari. Very useful/legit stuff.
Oh & go Chicago Bears!

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Being shut down doesn't always mean that you should camp more ... it can also mean that you should improve your approach options. I know from personal experience that it's easier said than done but improving your approaches and mix-ups makes you reach a whole other level. Once you've implemented your personal reads, baits and mix-ups into your approach game you will see that approaching almost always leaves you with more options than camping. Just remember to vary and cloak your approaches and you should see good results soon.

There are other options besides approaching with bair or fireballs. Even simply walking up to the opponent and grabbing him can work and a good bait can force a reaction that makes approaching generally easier.

This is mainly @Inferno but I think it's also legit advice for people who are new to Mario.

 

[mars16]

goods stuff
I learned something again

 

[Coolwhip]

I wake up out the bed.......turn my swag on!!!!! Take a look in the mirror & said what's sup.

 

[Omari]

Thanks Matador, Inferno, Cool-whip & the rest of the community. Really appreciate the feedback (negative, neutral or/& positive) as it will help me increase my overall skill. Hope you guys can make it to VC9 in N.J. next weekend! Doing my best to make it there myself & bring extra games like Mario Kart Double Dash (need I say more?) so it will be mad fun! Mario-Bowser is mad fun to play. Anyone down for a MM? =)

*(Falling off topic...sorry) anymore questions about Mario?

 

[PurDi]

What's the best way to punish someone that constantly rolls away from you?

I know it sounds noob and I thought it was, but I couldn't find a way to beat it...

 

[Inferno3044]

Rolling away from you, I guess running up and doing a Usmash would work. If they are rolling away though, I doubt they can punish you.

 

[PurDi]

He just uses projectile spam, better than my fireballs. And he's just constantly avoiding me. I tried to outcamp him, but he's too patient. If I didn't try to approach at all, he'd just stand there.

 

[JuxtaposeX]

If he rolls all the time, then you just need to predict it. It shouldn't be too hard, if hes spamming it all the time. For example, run up to him, and instead of attacking just run passed him, he should kind of roll into it. Once you get used to reading, rolls should be really easy to punish (unless its someone with a stupidly good roll, like Lucario or MK), the only problem is that Mario doesn't get rewarded that greatly for a read.

The position of the stage they're in also should be taken in account, roll spammers usually roll away from the center of the stage, and if they're near the ledge, they roll towards the center. Pretty obvious stuff. What I like to do as Luigi is pressure someone to the edge of the stage, and then just turn around and wait for them to roll into me. They think "Oh, I'm near the edge, if I roll behind him I'll be facing him and I could hit him he'll be off the stage."

 

[Calebyte]

What character is he playing?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Rolling away isn't something you can "physically" punish on the spot unless the opponent is super predictable, ridiculously easy to bait or you happen to have a really amazing read at that time.

If you understand how this game works on a high level with stage control ... you will punish rolling away sub-consciously all the time though. Rolling away means giving up space, letting off pressure, giving you room to breath or room to close in. Once you understand this concept and how to keep the opponent there, you don't actively need to cover that option because of you can easily react to it and because the long term benefit of having the opponent closer to the ledge can turn out more useful than the short term benefit of landing a single attack.

 

[MP8]

I've been curious to know if any Mario main would like to play dittos against me? I ask because I'm still learning and I would like to know someone's elses (preferably a Mario main's) opinions on what I need to improve on. I hate to ask because turning to wifi isn't something I or many other's like to do but who's willing? I know lag may not make things look accurate but its better than nothing. Thanks.

 

[Coolwhip]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=12073403#post12073403

I kinda lol'd @ this list cuz some of the players here are more wi-fi then offline tourney players.

 

[JuxtaposeX]

Kirin's MIA on that Link status.

 

[PurDi]

What character is he playing?

He was playing rollcario...

And yea I can get stage control but he won't approach and it just becomes a stalemate.

I realize I can just fireball spam him to death and it beats out his non-charged aura spheres, but if he gets a charged one its just cape then more fireballs. I never get kills doing that, I could try running out the time, but even then he can approach us easily with that disjointed fair and double jump away.

 

[MP8]

Im willing.

Dude, Snake is heavy as ****...whenever I manage to get a little momentum, it doesnt really even matter since I die a good 30% earlier than he does...assuming Im landing Fsmash like I want.

How do I kill this ****er?

Thanks Matador, appreciated. Let me know whenever you're good to go.

 

[Calebyte]

I moved all the Snake MU discussion to the appropriate thread. http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=290180

 

[HotWings]

Hey, im trying to figure out the counterpick for all characters so im going to all the Q&A threads of all the characters and posting this. I would like for you to give me your characters worst MU and worst stage so it saves me a lot of time researching it myself and testing stuff.

I would really appreciate it if you all helped me out.

Hope to get some answers pretty soon.

 

[Inferno3044]

Hey, im trying to figure out the counterpick for all characters so im going to all the Q&A threads of all the characters and posting this. I would like for you to give me your characters worst MU and worst stage so it saves me a lot of time researching it myself and testing stuff.

I would really appreciate it if you all helped me out.

Hope to get some answers pretty soon.

Worst MUs: MK, Marth. D3 is also pretty bad.

Worst stages I really don't know. I just know what stages he is good on and what stages I personally don't like.

 

[SKidd]

Hero once explained this to me... It was something like:


Mario, as a balanced character, has no "bad" stages. Even on the majority of bad stages, he's quite alright. Though, without a doubt, Battlefield is Mario's best stage. You should think about the stages you prefer the best and the stages your opponent is worst on.

 

[Inferno3044]

Brinstar is better for Mario. It's like BF with a smaller ceiling and a slanted floor (which makes a lot of people not as good)