Mario Questions and Answers; Ask here first!

[Ryos4]

Well i was recently playing a match vs a sheik. While i was recovering high sheik ledge released to i'm assuming Bair. But i managed to fair spike into up special, basically knocking her into the stage to her death. I think she was like 20-30%.

Anyway i was wondering if anyone has bothered to test the percent that this sort of thing can actually happen at?

 

[JuxtaposeX]

Mario's fair is REALLY, REALLY weak....
The only upside I can think of is that it looks really cool and its the best feeling when you double fair someone. I fair'd a falcon that chased me offstage, then used my double jump to fair him again when he up'b.

 

[Famous]

I remember Fairing someone 3 times in a row...and they still recovered

 

[A2ZOMG]

Mario's F-air is strictly for edgeguarding Snake...who really sucks at recovering against it.

And you can start juggles and techchases with it at mid percents.

There's also a super gimmicky gimp on Falco where you can literally combo him into a F-air at 0% out of F-throw at the edge, and you can get a guaranteed edgehog no matter what he does, but like that's going to happen lol.

 

[-Sensei-]

I'm having a lot of trouble with the Peach matchup. I need to know an effective way to approach her. If I try to approach with fireballs, pretty much all of her aerials will go right through (I can recall a time when Peach's fair went through 2 fireballs and still smacked me in the face). Maybe spacing bairs would work? IDK, but any advice on this would be helpful.

 

[HeroMystic]

I'm having a lot of trouble with the Peach matchup. I need to know an effective way to approach her. If I try to approach with fireballs, pretty much all of her aerials will go right through (I can recall a time when Peach's fair went through 2 fireballs and still smacked me in the face). Maybe spacing bairs would work? IDK, but any advice on this would be helpful.

Running (Power)Shield to Up-B or Cape Jumping to screw her spacing. Using FLUDD for FIHL can create openings too.

If I remember correctly, Mario can use U-tilt if Peach is hovering above him, but that's not approaching really.

Someone else should answer this though, my Peach knowledge is limited.

 

[ThatGuy]

As I recall from past matches, this was usually a very campy matchup for both players involved. You can't go under Peach because her Dair has good priority and range, and you can't go over because of her Uair and Mario's inability at attacking underneath him. Yet she can't approach easily because Mario has fireballs and Bair to hold her at bay. I've had many matches end in timeout because of this.

A nice trick is to use FLUDD on her to push her up. This will get her out of optimal float positioning and you can go under her, out of range of Dair. This can give you the space needed to get some damage done. If she tries a Dair on your shield, you could probably UpB through it. If she goes for a FC Fair, you probably can't do much about it, so make sure you're out of range of it. If you're not, shield the inevitable jabs and roll backwards to reset the situation.

TL:DR; spam bair.

 

[BSP]

Full hopped Fireballs also add to the pressure well. If you have platforms, don't hesitate to get on them and just keep lobbing fireballs at peach. The other guys are right, this is a pretty campy MU. Don't just charge into her, and don't try to punish Fair, it probably won't work.

 

[-Sensei-]

Thanks for the insight, guys. I hate playing campy but I guess I've got to do what I've got to do.

 

[Coolwhip]

I have a question. How you do tech chase w/ mario?
I wanna apply this tech to my gameplay.

 

[JuxtaposeX]

Mario doesn't really have any viable moves to force a tech chase, so I'm not really sure

 

[-Sensei-]

On stage fair may force a tech chase, but I usually follow it with a jab lock instead. Only other time I ever force a tech chase situation is on battlefield, when the opponent is shielding on a platform above me. If you up air their shield and they are standing close enough to one side of the platform, they will slide off and land in front of you (if the up air is spaced correctly). However, I usually also follow this with a jab lock since the opponent usually lands RIGHT in front of you. The good thing about the second option is that when the opponent slides off the platform like that, they can't tech the landing (at least I'm pretty sure they can't).

 

[SKidd]

If I miss my jab lock, I usually would just dash dance like it's melee, or sh ff repeatedly, until they do something, THEN I would dair to punish.

if miss, FIREBALLLLLL

 

[JuxtaposeX]

Sensei pretty much summed it all up, the only tech chase Mario has that doesn't set up a jablock is a trip using dtilt, and why the hell would you ever use that move?

 

[A2ZOMG]

I have a question. How you do tech chase w/ mario?
I wanna apply this tech to my gameplay.

Play Melee, a game where techchasing knockdowns and forcing missed techs is actually a viable strategy.

In Brawl, F-throw at low percents can trick people into missing a tech occasionally. Pushing a big character or fastfaller off a platform (usually on BF) is another way you can get a knockdown. When you get these types of knockdowns, getting a Jab lock is the desirable option.

If you're lucky enough to land F-air spike on an aerial opponent, almost nobody techs it, and they almost always roll in the direction they were DIing.

 

[JuxtaposeX]

If you're lucky enough to land F-air spike on an aerial opponent, almost nobody techs it, and they almost always roll in the direction they were DIing.

Good stuff, gotta try that sometime

 

[A2ZOMG]

What Brawl has instead of techchases is option limit juggles. Something that EVERYONE needs to get better at.

The idea being that the options you pick for juggling are meant to cover as many of your opponent's options as possible to prevent them from landing safely. Most people will airdodge on anticipation if they think you will U-air them (Falco players are an exception, they will D-air). With that in mind, the best way to cover airdodge is with D-air, which lingers and resets the situation on hit. If your opponent stops airdodging, you are free to use stronger aerials to capitalize on openings.

Fireballs are also really underused for juggling. Think for a moment how Diddy's Bananas work. Fireballs can be used sorta similarly, by covering space on the ground that is not safe for your opponent to land on. Depending on where you are, how big your opponent is, and where the fireball is, this can be a much more effective way of landing combos (D-smash is preferable in this situation) than the standard fireball approach.

 

[Flameleon]

-Still being the technical mario i see, a2z x9-

 

[HeroMystic]

Fireballs are also really underused for juggling. Think for a moment how Diddy's Bananas work. Fireballs can be used sorta similarly, by covering space on the ground that is not safe for your opponent to land on. Depending on where you are, how big your opponent is, and where the fireball is, this can be a much more effective way of landing combos (D-smash is preferable in this situation) than the standard fireball approach.

This actually sounds quite intriguing.

 

[A2ZOMG]

The other bonus of using fireballs in stead of your typical juggles is that sometimes, you can get your opponent to do some interesting things if they deliberately try to avoid landing on the fireball. Which can in turn lead to some potentially rewarding followups after putting your opponent above you outside of the fact that them getting hit by the fireball is free damage or depending on positioning a combo opportunity.

Not much unlike how edgeguarding with fireballs and punishing your opponent's reaction to avoid the fireball is quite useful.

 

[Coolwhip]

The other bonus of using fireballs in stead of your typical juggles is that sometimes, you can get your opponent to do some interesting things if they deliberately try to avoid landing on the fireball. Which can in turn lead to some potentially rewarding followups after putting your opponent above you outside of the fact that them getting hit by the fireball is free damage or depending on positioning a combo opportunity.

Not much unlike how edgeguarding with fireballs and punishing your opponent's reaction to avoid the fireball is quite useful.

Wowz. You know your stuff A2Z.

<--Cwhip

 

[A2ZOMG]

Above stated tactic works best on characters with a really wide hitbox, keep in mind. Not something I would try on Ness and Lucas for multiple reasons including that one.

 

[Flameleon]

-I have almost mastered the art of fireballz x9-

 

[Inferno3044]

What Brawl has instead of techchases is option limit juggles. Something that EVERYONE needs to get better at.

The idea being that the options you pick for juggling are meant to cover as many of your opponent's options as possible to prevent them from landing safely. Most people will airdodge on anticipation if they think you will U-air them (Falco players are an exception, they will D-air). With that in mind, the best way to cover airdodge is with D-air, which lingers and resets the situation on hit. If your opponent stops airdodging, you are free to use stronger aerials to capitalize on openings.

This idea is just basic mix ups. Nothing special. It improves over time.

Fireballs are also really underused for juggling. Think for a moment how Diddy's Bananas work. Fireballs can be used sorta similarly, by covering space on the ground that is not safe for your opponent to land on. Depending on where you are, how big your opponent is, and where the fireball is, this can be a much more effective way of landing combos (D-smash is preferable in this situation) than the standard fireball approach.

Terrible comparison but I think I get what you are saying. Regardless fireballs aren't good for juggles. What they do it's basically a projectile slow enough for Mario to follow behind. The normal reaction to a fireball would be to shield. But Mario can punish it with either a grab or a poke. This can set up a juggle.

 

[A2ZOMG]

You may call it basic mixups, but the vast majority of Mario players don't know their options for juggles. And depending on the situation, it's less about mixups, but rather just making good capitalizations, since some characters simply lack the options to escape good juggle traps. Every time I see a Mario user do an obvious U-air that gets airdodged, I cringe, when I know that a D-air would have reliably punished or frametrapped the airdodge (in which situation, that's when you can U-air your opponent).

And the thing is, the ACTUAL use for most projectiles is for land traps. This is where fireballs in juggle situations are extremely useful, since your opponent can't shield while in the air. One of the things Mario usually can't do when juggling normally is land a KO move (besides U-smash), but land trapping with fireballs is an option that lets you land D-smash more easily when juggling an opponent. There's also many situations where jumping to juggle an opponent isn't the best option, but rather waiting for your opponent to land is more optimal, and using fireballs as your opponent is landing is a way to optimize your land trap options.

 

[JuxtaposeX]

Aside from G&W, who is a good secondary for Mario?
I have a pocket Falco, but its unreliable. Is Pikachu good?

 

[HeroMystic]

Pikachu is good.

Marth's a good secondary. Easy to transition to.

 

[Juushichi]

Play Sheik, it'll work!

but nah, I've been toying around with Pikachu and while I'm still learning... the initial transition seems pretty smooth.

 

[A2ZOMG]

The one matchup you'll generally have trouble with going Pikachu and Mario is G&W and to a lesser extent Marth, who beat both of them solidly. Aside from that they cover matchups pretty well.

Falco's stupidly good with everyone Mario too. Honestly Falco for the most part is better against everyone than Mario is, except Pikachu and a maybe against Sheik.

Marth + Mario sucks against Metaknight and DDD, but is fine otherwise.

 

[Inferno3044]

The one matchup you'll generally have trouble with going Pikachu and Mario is G&W and to a lesser extent Marth, who beat both of them solidly. Aside from that they cover matchups pretty well.

Falco's stupidly good with everyone Mario too. Honestly Falco for the most part is better against everyone than Mario is, except Pikachu and a maybe against Sheik.

Marth + Mario sucks against Metaknight and DDD, but is fine otherwise.

I would consider Marth a much bigger problem for Mario and Pikachu than G&W. Marth I believe beats Pikachu 65:35 and beats Mario 7:3. From the Pikachu boards, it says G&W is 4:6 and it's the same with Mario. Maybe 35:65 with Mario, but for some reason I've never seen it as that bad.

Marth would be fine for Mario. He doesn't do that bad against MK and D3. I think 4:6 at worst for both.

Mario does better against ICs than Falco.

 

[Coolwhip]

Can luigi be a good/legit secondary to his big brother?

 

[BSP]

I'm not sure how well Mario bros will fare as backups to each other. And remember that they both have an extremely difficult time vs. MK.

Does Mario have an "unwinnables"? MK's close IMO, but I'm not sure about others.

 

[Inferno3044]

D3 infinite legal is unwinnable. 8:2 disadvantage

What ratio do you consider unwinnable?

 

[Jimmyfosho]

Luigi still almost loses to the same exact people that mario does, the only difference imo is just that luigi has the kill power.

 

[JuxtaposeX]

Luigi still almost loses to the same exact people that mario does, the only difference imo is just that luigi has the kill power.

This is the exact reason as to why I'm looking for a new secondary

 

[Jimmyfosho]

I think Marth is a pretty good secondary for mario mains (though preference is key).

 

[Boofy!]

why do ya'll all have babes as your avatars?

Who's the girl in yours Inferno?

 

[A2ZOMG]

I would consider Marth a much bigger problem for Mario and Pikachu than G&W. Marth I believe beats Pikachu 65:35 and beats Mario 7:3. From the Pikachu boards, it says G&W is 4:6 and it's the same with Mario. Maybe 35:65 with Mario, but for some reason I've never seen it as that bad.

Marth would be fine for Mario. He doesn't do that bad against MK and D3. I think 4:6 at worst for both.

Mario does better against ICs than Falco.

I don't see Marth destroying Pikachu in any way when he has tools like his better tilts, U-air, and broken spotdodge to fall back on, and his F-smash is arguably better than Mario's for this particular matchup. At worst I see Marth beating Pikachu 6/4 on his best stage, and you can counterpick Marth really easily with Pikachu or fundamentally try to time him out on a lead. Marth and G&W are about equally bad for Mario at any rate though, and G&W solidly beats Pikachu regardless of stage. So G&W is a bigger problem for Mario + Pikachu.

And Mario/Falco vs ICs...y'know I would have agreed Mario does better, until I realized that Falco had a better Reflector and D-throw.

 

[JuxtaposeX]

Throws dont work on ICs
Also, I too bored/tired of Marth.

 

[Inferno3044]

I don't see Marth destroying Pikachu in any way when he has tools like his better tilts, U-air, and broken spotdodge to fall back on, and his F-smash is arguably better than Mario's for this particular matchup. At worst I see Marth beating Pikachu 6/4 on his best stage, and you can counterpick Marth really easily with Pikachu or fundamentally try to time him out on a lead. Marth and G&W are about equally bad for Mario at any rate though, and G&W solidly beats Pikachu regardless of stage. So G&W is a bigger problem for Mario + Pikachu.

And Mario/Falco vs ICs...y'know I would have agreed Mario does better, until I realized that Falco had a better Reflector and D-throw.

Main thing which has G&W and Marth beat Mario is there very good range and disjoints. Marth does better because he is really fast. Pikachu suffers from the same range problem Mario does but has a couple of better options and doesn't have the blind spot Mario has.

Mario isn't bad at all vs. ICs btw. All you do is fireball camp and jump around platforms (chances are you will start on BF and I would probably CP them to either Brinstar or Lylat so that I have platforms). ICs will chase you and try and hit you with a Uair through the platform. Dodge, punish, separate, destroy Nana, destroy Popo. Repeat

why do ya'll all have babes as your avatars?

Who's the girl in yours Inferno?

Jada Fire. It's for all the balck people that are naturally good with Mario.

Throws dont work on ICs
Also, I too bored/tired of Marth.

I barely have a secondary. I have Luigi right now and I use him vs. Wario, D3, and Olimar. Other than those 3 MUs, I go Mario.