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There are many things I like and quite a few things I dislike about Raven. I don't like that it has so few comments, for one... especially considering it's your birthday. Disgraceful showing, and I feel bad myself for taking so long.
Now, the main thing I like about Raven is that almost every single attack is interesting or unique in some way. In this way, it's like an MYM 4 set - but a very, very good one. I love the Specials and the motif involving warping the stage to your will, it's all very fitting and very, very cool. Creativity has always been one of your strong points, as you know exactly how to keep things interesting without resorting to ridiculous shenanigans that feel tacked on.
Now, the main thing I don't like about Raven is that she's beefy. She's waaaay more detailed than most sets of this contest, and, well, I'm spoiled. Again, back in MYM 4, sets were expected to be this long, but now, it kind of sticks out like a sore thumb. Those first three specials in particular really feel like they could be condensed.
Back to the good, and I love the wall as a cornerstone to her playstyle. Walls have been done many times before in MYM, especially by Warlord, but they've never really been explored as something to be manipulated and played with, as they are here. Forward Aerial is probably my favorite attack in the whole set, because it's so OBVIOUS, it's feasible, and it's brilliant.
I can't say I'm fond of the organization - I'm never fond of your organization, to be honest, and the headers here are altogether too big - but that's one of the few complaints I can level against this moveset, and this coming from someone who really isn't a fan of Teen Titans (what is it about this show that sets it apart from the myriad other superhero shows out there?).
EDIT: I didn't mean any offense, Katapultar. Of course it's better to give a light positive comment than it is to ignore a set altogether; it's just that it's even better to give a weighty positive comment. Thanks for doing so for Raven!
Well I just gave Raven a quick read so you'll have to forgive me for not giving a more indepth comment for it...
So I'm just gonna poke at parts I see. First of all, the organization is simple but it gets the job done; I don't get the hate for simple organization now...not everyone can be expected to pull off a K.Rool or Junahu level of organization and if it gets the job done and doesn't look sloppy, what's the problem? Also, you can read the text just fine if you look at it head on instead of from an upward or lower angle.
As for the set itself, you had some really good ideas here, my personal favorite being the Side B. It fits Raven perfectly and I know recognize it instantly from the series; it's a great use of her powers especially the fact that it can be used for stage controlling.
As K.Rool said, this set is a tad beefy in the detail department, but I don't think that's a terribly big deal considering most of it seems necessary or, at the worst, just needs to have a bit of excess wording trimmed from it.
Overall, this is a great first set from you Silver; all I'd really suggest is what K.Rool did, toning down the detail so it's slightly more approachable. Also, this set is seriously lacking in the "azarath metrion zinthos" department; I was sure there'd be way more.
Well, my opinion on Raven is actually a bit more moderate than the above posts.
There is a lot of creativity here, which, with a character like Raven, is to be expected and it actually meshes together quite well. She definitely has a playstyle, despite her myriad of unique moves. The specials, side tilt, down tilt and Fair were easily my favorite moves in the set.
Now I move on to the bad:
The set is way to lengthy in the specials section. Try being more to-the-point with your descriptions.
The color used for headers is a very bad choice. I had to highlight for every move and section to make sure I was reading a certain move.
Down Air is grossly overpowered. 3 seconds of move disabling for the foe is rediculous, especially considering the aerial was just a bit below average without the effect. Lessen disable duration to 1 second.
Raven is a trap character. I normally don't freely toss around this label, but having 3 of her moves create traps/obstacles and a myriad of moves that work with them (a couple of the traps even working together) make Raven far to focused on trapping.
Other than that, the set was definitely a huge step up from all of your previous works, including Bison, and is noteworthy for it's combination of creativity with playability.
I didn't read Raven in-depth, but I can easily point out what I like and dislike from what I did read. I'll alternate between postive and negative observations that I found. First of all, her Side Special; I like the item control function. Seeing as how some of my future sets
(Voldemort and Kritter from the Kountry Enforcers, in particular)
can manipulate items, I like the uses you have for it. I don't watch Teen Titans, but it seems rather in character. As others have pointed out, the set has a thin outline of unnecessary moveset 'fat' that can be trimmed, particularly in the Specials. It's not a huge issue, but I suggest revision. I actually enjoyed the black organization; not only does it fit Raven, it shows up fine on my computer (although this might just be because I'm in a well-lit room). I can see why it would bother other MYMers, but IMO, it shouldn't keep others from reading Raven.
As others have pointed out in the chat, Raven is indeed a trap-character. Chris hit the nail on the head when he said that she has several moves that are focused on too heavily, in trap-character form. With the excess of these characters seen stemming from MYM5 and on, my new stance on trap-characters is that they should only be done if they can add something new to the table. For Raven, I just can't really see what new there is; she has a lot of moves that interact with a few moves, which has been done. I love me my move interactions, but her playstyle is a little too reliant on it, if you know what I mean.
Don't let this overshadow how creative and fitting Raven's attacks are. Raven is indeed a step up from Bison, which was pretty decent to begin with. My guess is that the length and organization of the set is what's going to bite it in the arse in the long run, even though I like the coloring. These are the two things that need to be prioritized highest to maximize Raven's potential for votes in the end.
Ok I just hope the forums are ok with me as I try to post this.
Raven, ok hooray I actually watched this show so I feel it might make it easier for me to imagen these nifty attacks.
Well first, it just screams trap character, but I really don't mind as long as the color scheme, creativity, play style, and overall organization is alright. And you seem to have that all down. Now lets see I really don't see why the neutral B has Raven take so much damage when she already has such a high chance of getting knocked out of it. Not to mention the lag, and if you have to resort to only being able to using it to attack opponent while they recover. Then I really don't see why you have to take even more damage when you probably have a lot of damage. I really don't see the point of taking damage with that amount of lag tied in. The ten second limit was nicely added.
Ditlt: ZOMG a tilt that can effect characters in the background, I wonder if my Ghor's Armor will get sucked in O_o.
I guess the standard A when used as a projectile can only go straight?
Nice touch with the forward throw >_>
Overall it was a fun read, and reminded me howw much I miss that show.
Sukapon is the main robotic fighter in Nintendo's first fighting game, Joy Mech Fight for the NES. Joy Mech Fight begins as the evil Dr. Ivan Warunachi steals all of the robots from his partner, Dr. Little Eamon, Sukapon is Eamon's last remaining good robot. Sukapon goes out to fight all of the escaped robots to be reprogrammed and unlocked. Joy Mech Fight is remembered as a game that demonstrated all the NES had to offer. Even with the limited capabilities of the NES, Joy Mech Fight had thirty-six characters to unlock plus some bosses, with surprisingly good graphics and sound quality. The game is now largely forgotten, but it deserves recognition as Nintendo’s first fighting game.
Statistics
Attack Speed: 7
Range: 7
Recovery: 7
Movement Speed: 6
Size: 4
Fall Speed: 3
Weight: 3
Power: 2
Priority: 2
Traction: 2
Midair Jumps: 1
Wall Jump: Yes
Wall Cling: No
Crawl: No
Glide: No
Animations
(Symbol)
The silhouette of Sukapon's body, showing his unconnected body parts.
(Entrance)
Sukapon stands a bit ahead of his starting position and leaps back, doing a funky dance once he lands.
(Crowd Cheer)
"Su-ka-PON!"
(Standing)
Sukapon holds his arms up above him, in a spire-like formation, his midsection twirling to show off his robotic belly button. He's a bit taller than Mario in this state, but thinner. In addition, he is unhittable in the small spaces between his limbs. You won't be able to rely on this but it can be potentially helpful.
(Idle)
Sukapon bobs his body clockwise and counterclockwise slowly, not moving outside of the circular motions.
(Walk)
Sukapon does a standard walk forward.
(Run)
Sukapon remains upright as he moves his legs faster.
(Dash)
Sukapon's legs fan out rapidly underneath him, his head letting out sweat occasionally but his body remaining upright.
(First Jump)
Sukapon hops up.
(Midair Jump)
Sukapon flails his legs, gaining a mediocre distance vertically but a great one horizontally.
(Crouch)
Sukapon squeezes low to the ground like a spring. One of the better crouches in the game. It removes Sukapon's blind spots but they weren't very useful in the first place.
(Shield)
Sukapon flails his arms ahead of himself as he pulls up the standard bubble shield.
(Rolldodge)
Sukapon scoots to the side with a dizzy expression on his face.
(Spotdodge)
Sukapon leans on one leg, similar to DK's spotdodge.
(Airdodge)
Sukapon holds his arms out gracefully, scooting into the background.
(Dizzy)
Sukapon stumbles around with a comic expression on his face.
(Asleep)
Sukapon "powers down", losing all color and not moving anymore.
Special Attacks
Neutral (Konaniran)
Sukapon puts his hands on his ears and rears back his head, then tossing it straight forward. This has less startup lag than it sounds, about 2X that of Mario's Fireball. Sukapon's head will move the distance of two Battlefield platforms before returning, moving at the speed of Mario's dash. Contact with Sukapon's head deals 8%, with decent knockback. This can be angled with the Control Stick, but it can only move in that direction once released.
By holding down the B button Sukapon can keep his head moving infinitely, but it will need to return to Sukapon once released, giving the move equivalent ending lag. Used correctly this can be a excellent way to edgeguard without being at risk, but this only works if the opponent has a slow recovery or is far enough from the ledge (due to the startup lag). Otherwise this move will see little use, being predictable used like a regular projectile. This move is situational, a common theme for Sukapon.
Side (Skapon Roll)
Sukapon whirls in place like a wheel (like in Rollout) for brief startup lag, more or less the same as in his Neutral Special, then launches forward, moving at the speed of Mario's dash. Sukapon's body deals 12% with average knockback.
This move is mostly useful to stop approaches if you're sure that it will connect; don't get predictable with this or the startup lag and low priority will be punished! In addition, it's easy to self-destruct when using this move. However, this more than makes up for it with the stellar effect, dealing decent damage and potentially KOable knockback (though it would take an inconveniently high percentage). Situational but powerful; such is the nature of Sukapon!
Up (Tondeker)
Sukapon puts his hand on his ears and tosses his head. This move begins similarly to Konaniran, but the head is instead tossed upwards, moving at the same speed as Konaniran (2X Mario's Fireball). Contact with his head only deals 4%; this isn't meant for direct attacking. Once the head travels the distance of 3 Battlefield platforms, or the B button is released, Sukapon snaps back together, appearing at the midpoint of his head and body before going into a helpless state. However, by snapping when his head is touching a wall, Sukapon reappears directly next to the wall and does not go into a helpless state.
This is a unique way of recovering, and it has two possible ways to be used. The first is to simply send up the head as far as possible before snapping together. However, this is far from preferable; opponents can easily attack Sukapon's moving head, which causes him to snap early, and this has a maximum distance of 1.5 Battlefield platforms, which isn't enough to make up for how difficult this is to use. The second use is using it against a wall. This only works on stages like Yoshi's Island (Brawl), being nigh impossible on stages like Battlefield, but by saving your midair jump this can easily get you to the ledge.
Down (Skapon Toss)
Sukapon does a scooping motion with his hands, grabbing opponents, and holds them above his head for a moment before tossing them forward with 8% and set knockback a little better than with Lucas's PK Fire. This can be escaped with button mashing like a regular grab, so it usually won't finish until 60% or so. Ordinarily this would make for a very good way of gimping, being usable offstage to seal an opponents fate or as they rise from the ledge, but there's a good amount of risk involved: Sukapon will go through the whole, nearly-2-second motion of the attack, even if the opponent escapes or isn't even grabbed. This means that you can't be careless with this move, only using it when sure that it would connect. This stops it from being an effective spacing move, as it could leave Sukapon even more vulnerable. Use this move carefully.
Standard Attacks
Standard (Skapon Stance)
Sukapon holds his limbs out in an X-like shape, making him slightly bigger, and remains in this stance as long as the A button is held. His entire body becomes a hitbox in this state, dealing 6% with average knockback to any opponent to touch him. Sukapon's body has surprisingly good priority, but this being a jab it isn't great. Once this stance is exited, Sukapon suffers from ending lag proportional to how long the stance was held, which can reach 1.5 seconds if it is held for 5 seconds (at which point the move is automatically released). There is also brief lag when entering this stance, similar to that of the Ice Climbers' Side Smash.
At first glance this seems to be a joke move, and indeed it won't see much use in matches. The main uses of this are to stop approaches and to stop projectiles. However, it's far from ideal in both cases, as it only stops low-priority approaches and it can't be held forever against projectile spam. This will see minimal use in casual and competitive matches alike.
Dash Attack (Takedown)
Sukapon loses all momentum as he topples over, becoming a hitbox as he does so. This leaves Sukapon in his prone state, ready to use a situational. However, unlike certain characters, Sukapon has no reason to ever want to use his badly ranged, lowly prioritized situationals, and he has no setups with them either. What's the use of this, then? Well, Sukapon's body deals a mediocre 4%, but instead of dealing knockback, it leaves the opponent in their prone position, right next to Sukapon. If this is used right against the opponent they'll fall over at the same time as you, and you'll probably just clash with your situationals, but if you connect as Sukapon is almost tripped over, you reach the ground much faster than your opponent. You can simply use a guaranteed situational, but by rolling to the side this is a perfect setup for a Side Tilt. For this to work you have to connect with the final frames of the hitbox, but it’s a worthwile trick.
Tilt Attacks
Side (Poker)
Sukapon pokes one of his hands in front of himself, it moving forward the distance of half a Battlefield platform before turning around like a boomerang and coming back. The hand moves rather quickly, the entire move taking around half a second to execute As the hand moves out it deals only 5%, with weak, set knockback that pushes the opponent forward with the hand briefly, but as the hand comes back it deals 9% and set knockback that pushes the opponent right into Sukapon’s face, an ideal setup for a Skapon Stance (Neutral Attack). However, usually you won’t land both hits, as the stun is minimal and the priority is easily overpowered. The opponent can easily get a quick jab or tilt on Sukapon, making his hand reappear and leaving him worse off.
For this move to work properly, Sukapon will need to take a card from Marth and space this move to maximum range, so the stun leaves the opponent helpless to the return. Perfectly spaced this deals 14% altogether, nothing to shrug off but not really worth it. That’s why you’ll want to use a Neutral Attack right afterwards, bringing the total up to 20%! Used on heaviweights and initiated at 0%, this can be used twice in a row to build up 40%! However, the knockback at the end will knock opponents away more and more, making this only effective at low percentages; note that if a heaviweight has just 1% the combo only works once. Still, there are more potential combos for Sukapon to use...
Up (Stilts)
Sukapon waves his arms above his head, as his body begins to stretch out. His parts stay the same size and shape, but they merely move upwards, as long as the input is held. Sukapon can stretch out at a slowish pace, that allows him to stretch up to 1.5 Battlefield platforms high in 4 seconds. Once he stretches himself out, he can move around and attack, being much more mobile: however. there is a key difference- since Sukapon's body is stretched out, his hitboxes become much higher from the ground. Sukapon will not stay in this state forever; he will slowly close back down, taking around 2 seconds to negate one second of stretching. Sukapon cannot stretch while already stretched out- he has to do all the stretching he'll want the first time.
This has some drawbacks for a anti-air move, like not actually attacking and taking time to prepare, but it makes up for it with its sheer versatility. Since Sukapon can use any ground-based move out of this state (except for his Side Smash, more on that later) it can be used for more than just juggling; it can damage deal and get KOs. Another, less useful way to use this is to dodge attacks because it makes Sukapon's blind spots larger, but this is awkward and difficult to do.
Down (Compression)
This is the opposite of Sukapon's Up Tilt. As long as this input is held, Sukapon squeezes together. The basic mechanics are the same as the Up Tilt- Sukapon reaches 2/3 the size of Olimar in 4 seconds, but he loses a second's worth of shrinking every 2 seconds. What this does is make Sukapon a smaller target. He also gains a new crouch in this state (as the old one just removed his blind spots, which this already does) that lowers him even futher to the ground, making him an even smaller target.
This is a decent defensive move if you can pull it off, but it honestly isn't very useful; size isn't always a huge issue. What this does is make Sukapon largely invulnerable to projectile spam. Normally Sukapon would be easily pressured from a range, but this way he can enter matchups against Pit and ROB without fear. It isn't so much utility as existence that makes this move worthwhile.
Smash Attacks
Side (Power Wave)
As he charges, Sukapon leans down and squeezes his eyes shut, concentrating. Once the charge is released, he leaps backwards and falls to the ground, making a blue, vertical wave emit over the ground once he lands. Because he leaps back but falls forward, this comes out right where it was initiated- there's no need for spacing. The wave goes over the ground at a fast speed, going the distance of a Battlefield platform before disappearing. Contact with it deals 6% to 12%, but dealing the same, below amount of knockback no matter the charge (It isn't set knockback, as it increases with damage).
Strangely enough, this move is more of a damage-dealer than a KOer. The lag is decently low but nothing special, and the knockback is below average, making it really not worth it for KOs. The damage is low, so you might think that this is useless as a damage-dealer as well, but it's actually a great one. The low knockback does not launch the opponent very far, so it can in fact connect multiple times! At low percentages, this might even connect three times for obscene damage! However, the use becomes less and less at higher percentages, as the opponent is knocked too far away to be hit again. Even for Sukapon, a situational but powerful move.
Up (Skapon Top)
As he charges, Sukapon twists his body above his hips. Once the charge is released, Sukapon begins to twirl in place, dealing 4% to 8% damage on contact with opponents (Yes, his entire body is the hitbox), with flinching knockback. This would be a useless attack, but it has a special property- it can be aimed. The game records which directions are held on the Control Stick during charge time (but only for left and right). If left and right were pressed at all, Sukapon will move in those directions during the move- for example, if left was held for half a second, nothing for another half and right for the last half, Sukapon will move left for a half second, then not move for a half second and then move right for the last half second. Of course, this means that the longer the charge the longer Sukapon moves.
This, despite having the potential to attack from a ways away, is primarily a close-ranged attack; you won't deal worthwhile damage when using this from a distance and being predictable to boot. By getting close up, Sukapon can whirl in and out of the opponent, dealing quite a bit of damage, though this is fairly easy to DI out of.
Down (Reeling Them In)
As he charges, Sukapon holds his arms to his chest. On release, he thrusts them out on both sides, with an animation similar to Lucario's Down Smash. Without a charge they barely extend at all, but fully charged they go for a full Stage Builder Block on both sides. Instead of dealing damage or knockback, Sukapon's hands will grab opponents who come in contact with them, pulling them back to Sukapon at the end of the move with a slight stunning effect upon release. This cannot be escaped by button mashing. A relatively simple Smash, this is vital for Sukapon to be able to get close up and land close-ranged moves.
Aerial Attacks
Neutral (Floater)
Sukapon begins to twirl his arms around his sides like a helicopter with minimal startup lag, and continues to spin until reaching the ground. As he spins his arms, Sukapon's already slow falling speed is halved, and he gains wonderful aerial DI, better than even Wario, the DI god himself. Sukapon's body also becomes a hitbox, dealing 3 hits of 1% and flinching per second, but this is very easy to DI out of (in fact, even without DI the opponent escapes due to the lack of a vacuum effect). Pressing A again causes Sukapon to exit this, not going into helpless or anything similar. Good for supplementing Sukapon's recovery.
Forward (Switcheroo)
With startup lag similar to Wario's Side Tilt, Sukapon holds his hand behind him for a moment before launching it forward the length of 2 Stage Builder Blocks. His hand can be aimed with the Control Stick, but only by up to 45 degrees up and down (the potential range looks like this: <). On contact the hand deals no damage, instead reaching back to pull the opponent to Sukapon. By pressing A this can end here, but otherwise Sukapon leaps up to where the opponent formerly was, effectively switching their positions.
This has quite a few different uses with a little creativity. One of the most obvious is to counter edgehoggers, switching them with Sukapon but there's more to it than that. You can also use it to get air-reliant characters out of the air, being doubly useful if they have a poor ground game (which air-reliant characters tend to have). In team matches this can aid an ally's recovery, as long as Sukapon is sure to be able to recover himself.
Backward (Backflip)
Sukapon leans back and launches into a flip backwards, moving back the approximate distance of a Battlefield platform before curving downwards, making the move turn into a stall-then-fall. Contact with Sukapon's body deals 6% with weak horizontal knockback.
By pressing A when Sukapon hits the ground or an opponent (footstooling them on contact) Sukapon flips up again, moving a slightly greater distance up and to the side, also moving faster so it takes the same amount of time. The damage and knockback also recieve a small boost as well- 2% and an iota, respectively. By the fourth flip Sukapon's flipping up and to the side the distance of 1.5 Battlefield platforms, dealing 12% with average knockback. However, on smaller stages (that is, the tourney-legal ones), Sukapon won't be able to get much distance out of this, only getting two to three flips before the opponent knocks him out of it.
Up (Snapper)
Sukapon's head and arms begin moving upwards at 1.5X the speed of a Ganondorf using Dark Dive, as long as the A button is held. Sukapon can extend a potentially infinite distance, but keep in mind that this adds to the startup lag, and if Sukapon hits the ground while extending the move is automatically released. When the move is released, the head and arms snap back to Sukapon, at about three times the speed they went up. There can be follow-through if Sukapon's extended enough, but it isn't significant. Contact with Sukapon's arms deal 4% with weak upwards knockback without being extended, but extended the height of 1.5 Ganondorfs this deals 15% with strong, KOable upwards knockback. You'll need to combo into this for it to land correctly.
Down (Dropper)
Sukapon's legs drop out from under his body in a stall-then-fall at a slowish speed, followed by his midsection, head and arms. This move takes a while to execute, and has horrible landing lag, as Sukapon's body has to fall down section-by-section. Contact with any part of his body deals 8% with average horizontal knockback. Due to Sukapon's body falling part-by-part, there are gaps which the opponent can jump between to evade the attack, but this is really only possible with smaller characters.
What this move does is make a tall wall of successive hitboxes, stopping approaches and cancelling anti-air moves with ease. Unfortunately, this suffers from all of the problems of a traditional stall-then-fall, namely horrible landing lag (even worse than usual here) and only decent priority that can be overpowered with a stronger move. Due to the risk this isn't a move that will see a lot of use competitively, but opportunities for it may pop up from time to time if you're aware.
Grab Attacks
Grab (Grasp)
Sukapon steps forward slightly while grasping his hands. This has very good range, rivaling that of Dedede's almighty standing grab, but on a miss Sukapon gains a shocked expression on his face as a single tear drops from one of his eyes, giving this some ending lag.
Attack (Pinch)
Sukapon pinches the opponent on the cheek. Only does 1%, but is very fast.
Forward (Fakeout)
Sukapon releases the opponent from the grab, looking exactly like they escaped by button mashing. If the opponent attacks Sukapon during an instant upon release, Sukapon grabs them again, this being unavoidable, and dealing a bonus 7%. This is a pretty unreliable throw, but it's quite valuable when harnessed correctly; it acts as a mindgame and it sort of can be a chaingrab- release the opponent after a couple of pummels, regrab and repeat- though opponents will quickly catch on to this.
Backward (Spread Slam)
Sukapon falls backwards onto the opponent, dealing 4% with bad, easily punishable ending lag. Ordinarily this would be useless, but by holding the A button as he falls, Sukapon stretches out his body like in his Up Tilt, delaying the fall. It takes two seconds to fully stretch out, and the opponent can escape during this time, but fully charged this does a beautiful 14% with above average horizontal knockback. However, note that you won't want to charge too far; if Sukapon is too stretched out the opponent is hit by the gap and escapes unharmed, being able to punish the ending lag. Characters like Bowser are too large for this to take effect, but Olimar or Kirby can dodge it after less than a second of charging.
Up (Into Thin Air)
Sukapon simply tosses his opponent upwards with weak set knockback to deal 6% as well as forcing them into a freefall only able to use their Up Special, and leaps up behind them. A nice way to combo into an aerial, but watch out, as many Up Specials have good priority- imput an aerial fast!
Down (Suplex)
Sukapon hops up and slams his hand forward, spiking the opponent. Used over solid ground this simply whacks the opponent into the ground, dealing only 6% with punishable ending lag, but used over the ledge this becomes a powerful meteor smash that makes it near impossible for the opponent to recover. One of Sukapon's most reliable ways to KO.
Situational Attacks
Ledge Under 100% (Swinger)
Sukapon agily swings onto the ledge and balances himself on his hand as he does two swinging kicks all around his body. The first kick deals only 4% but trips the opponent, followed by the second kick doing 6% and knocking the opponent behind the ledge with average set knockback. A little punishable for a ledge attack due to the (comparitively) high duration and low priority, but turns the tables on the opponents with a good hit.
Ledge Over 100% (Rebuild)
Too exhausted to get up conventionally, Sukapon swings himself back on the ledge slightly as his legs, body, head and arms circle around onto the ledge, rebuilding himself in a similar fashion to his Down Aerial. Unfortunately, this isn't quite as powerful as his Down Aerial, dealing only 2% and weak knockback for each part- but hey, it's great for snapshots!
Rising (Skapon Flip)
This encompasses Sukapon's Downed, Flipped and Tripped Attacks. Sukapon hops up and does two succesive flips before landing gracefully on his feet. This deals only 2 hits of 2% without knockback, but it has nice f1inching, allowing for a combo. It nicely complements Sukapon's Dash Attack, allowing Sukapon to get up quickly after stumbling and punish the opponent, though admittedly with only quick and weak moves.
Final Smash - Reprogramming
Sukapon gazes ahead of himself, creating a hitbox the length of 1.5 Battlefield platforms and the height of a Kirby in front of his eyes. The nearest opponent caught in the narrow hitbox is paralyzed, as an old man in a UFO- Dr. Little Eamon, Sukapon's creator- lowers a thick disk by a crane onto their head, which shakes and flashes as it reprograms the character, taking them over by a Level 9 CPU and making them an ally on Sukapon's team.
In 1 versus 1s, the character will simply wander aimlessly around the stage, having no opponent to attack, as Sukapon is able to beat them up as much as he can normally, them never attacking back or dodging, though they occasionally move, which could make them accidentally avoid attacks. Sukapon is able to space moves perfectly easily, alleviating his worst weakness. This can quickly finish off a stock, but it isn't really worth it considering the small hitbox which can be easily shielded or crouched beneath.
Where this move gets its real use is in Free-For-Alls. The opponent will act as a player on Sukapon's team to gang up on the other characters, all KOs they make counting for Sukapon and giving him another KO if they die. This can last for a while and it might KO everyone in the match, but due to randomness and occasionally stupid CPUs this isn't always perfectly effective.
Whatever you're going to do, do it fast, as this Final Smash ends after fifteen seconds or when Sukapon's new team member dies (preventing multiple KOs with this in 1 versus 1s).
Playstyle - Use Your Head
Sukapon can be compared to a more definitive Marth. Like Marth, Sukapon will need to have his moves perfectly spaced to work properly, but unlike Marth Sukapon's moves have unique sweetspots; he can't get to a specific range to get all of his moves to work. On top of this, many of Sukapon's moves require more than just spacing to work properly. His Dash Attack not only needs to connect in the ending frames, but only really works against large targets or those with slow situationals. His Up Smash requires Sukapon to predict where his opponent is going to be when the charge is released so it can be aimed for maximum damage. His Back Aerial requires Sukapon to not only predict the opponent but be near the end of the stage if he wants to build up a powerful flip. Sukapon is certainly a precision character, requiring so much for moves to work properly.
But requiring more accurate spacing and other things, it's fitting that Sukapon can do more with perfectly landed hits than Marth. While his individual moves aren't exactly good enough to make up for this flaw, they together weave a strong web- that is, they combo very well. By landing his Side Tilt correctly at the beginning of a match or opponent's stock, Sukapon can combo into his Neutral Attack to deal 20% damage with no real repercussions. There's leeway on heaviweights due to larger size and more weight, and landed on them at 0% you can do the combo twice to build up 40%!
The rest of Sukapon's combos aren't quite as specific, and they can chain together in many different ways that are too numerous to mention- just be sure to remember which moves are Sukapon's best tools for comboing. A Neutral Attack is good to get opponents away from Sukapon for spacing and to end a combo, and Dash Attack into Rising Attack takes quick fingers but can do quite a bit as a combo starter. Getting opponents to Sukapon is a nice effect with the Side Tilt, and the parallel effects of the Up Tilt and Down Tilt are nice to prepare for a combo. Down Smash is one of, if not the best of Sukapon's combo starters. And then there's the Forward Aerial, which leaves so much potential for creativity that it's almost his bread and butter.
...Still, as a comboer, Sukapon has substandard KOing ability. His only real KO move is his Side Smash, which takes too much damage to KO, being geared towards damage-dealing, to be worth the significant lag and predictability. If pulled off correctly Suplex (his Down Throw) can nicely finish a stock but don't count on being able to grab the opponent right by the ledge, and it's tempting to use Skapon Toss (his Down Special) instead. Thusly, Sukapon will need to build up significant damage to be able to KO with a Side Smash, or build even more so that a weaker move can KO. His damage-dealing capabilities make this less of a problem then it could have been on certain other characters, but it's still a big issue.
But despite this flaw, Sukapon's a character who's going to be used frequently. Casuals appreciate him for his unconventional moves, satisfying Final Smash and humorous taunts, which make him great for snapshots, whereas competitive players appreciate his good matchups against certain high tiers. Tournament directors appreciate him as well for encouraging the use of some of his low tier counters who wouldn't be used otherwise. It's fortunate how cute he is, as otherwise seeing so much of him would be annoying.
Playing Against - Skapon Counter
Pressure him, right? Well, no, pressuring Sukapon isn't very productive. While Sukapon's low weight and gimpable recovery are a boon to pressurers, getting there is highly inconvenient due to Sukapon's vast array of tools to stop you. Konaniran (his Neutral Special) can allow Sukapon to pressure from a range to stop close-ranged threats, and Skapon Roll (his Side Special) will either stop an approach or get Sukapon a significant distance away. Once the opponent gets to Sukapon, he still has a couple of tools to throw out, like his Neutral Attack (though it can be outprioritized easily) and his well-ranged grab with useful throws to accompany it.
In fact, the best course of action against Sukapon is the opposite of pressure- defense. A good counter to Sukapon can easily run away when the going gets tough, and spam dodges otherwise. This makes it difficult for Sukapon to space and land his moves correctly. Even a little defense goes a long way against Sukapon.
This is going to make fighting Sukapon pretty methodical, as it's better to defend then attack, but it isn't difficult once you get the hang of it.
What is difficult while doing this is getting a KO in. KO moves tend to be close-ranged and laggy, the hardest kind of move to use while defending. While you're trying to score a KO on Sukapon, he'll be free to build damage or maybe even get a KO himself. Still, he doesn't have a huge advantage here, as his low weight and gimpable recovery makes KO moves extra effective once they land.
While many characters like Sukapon, with low weight and gimpable recovery, are rather vulnerable to pressure, Sukapon challenges the system, and it's an easy mistake to pick a pressure god like Pit, ROB or Takamaru only for Sukapon to easily counter them. Still, by reading into a matchup and practicing, a battle with Sukapon is no difficult task.
Matchups
Meta Knight (70/30s, Meta Knight's Favor)
Meta Knight has a positive matchup against the majority of the cast, and Sukapon is no exception. Meta Knight's speed makes it easy for him to get out of Sukapon's range and make sweetspotting difficult, and on top of this, his aerial mobility is great for stalling. While Sukapon has little to do against Meta Knight, Meta Knight can **** Sukapon with ease, building up damage efficiently and KOing even earlier than normal with Shuttle Loop and Down Smash due to Sukapon's low weight and poor recovery. You'll be much better off choosing Yoshi or Diddy Kong for this matchups, who have a similar playstyle to Sukapon but can counter Meta Knight.
Snake (55/45, Sukapon's Favor)
While Snake finds it easy to knock Sukapon around, Sukapon can knock around Snake just as well. Snake's weight is a hindrance in this matchup, as Sukapon can easily use his Side Tilt to Neutral Attack combo and build up damage plus finding it slightly easier to combo with other moves. In addition, Sukapon will find plenty of openings in Snake's attacks to start combos. Snake will also have some trouble setting up moves like his Down Smash and Down Special, as Sukapon can interrupt him with combos or his Side Special even if he's far away. Still, Snake can easily knock around the lightweight Sukapon and good Snake players can see Sukapon losing stocks fast, so Sukapon is far from a perfect counter. Still, there are so few Snake counters that Sukapon can prove invaluable when fighting Snake.
King Dedede (65/35, Sukapon's Favor)
Unlike Snake, who has power and surprising speed, the penguin eagle king Dedede doesn't have much speed at all (attack or movement) giving Sukapon a bigger advantage, being able to capitalize on lag to space while Dedede is lagging or moving slowly. In addition, Sukapon can use his infamous Side Tilt to Neutral Attack combo twice on King Dedede, as well as easily using other combos like with Snake. Unfortunately Dedede can chaingrab Sukapon, but it's far from easy with Sukapon's low weight and poor traction, and Sukapon can easily stop Dedede from approaching to make the damage gained far from a successful chaingrab not exactly worth it. Sukapon has trouble KOing but he can build damage so efficiently on King Dedede that this isn't a huge concern. Of course Sukapon can be knocked around by Dedede, but Sukapon has all the tools to avoid it.
Ice Climbers (80/20, Ice Climbers' Favor)
A good Ice Climbers player is Sukapon's worst nightmare. The worst weakness of the juveniles, lack of good approaches, is alleviated by the fact that Sukapon's approach options are even worse. Sukapon can't really land his attacks properly due to the fact that there are two of them, only one getting the whole hit and the other being able to knock Sukapon out of it, and desynching makes this even worse. Like with King Dedede Sukapon can prevent the Ice Climbers from approaching to get a grab, but Squall Hammer and Blizzard can outprioritize most of Sukapon's options, and the Ice Climbers, unlike King Dedede, only need one grab to build up mass damage. Consider yourself lucky that your worst counter is so unpopular as a character.
Sheik (60/40, Sheik's Favor)
Sheik can counter Sukapon reasonably well. Using her speed and needles, Sheik is typically able to pressure Sukapon well enough that he can't set up as well as he could have, and she can actually KO due to Sukapon's low weight. Still, Sukapon can stop most of Sheik's approaches and he can KO a little better (though not as well as Sheik can in this matchup) due to Sheik's weight and mediocre recovery. This matchup is far from one-sided, but Sheik still has a significant advantage.
Jigglypuff (55/45, Jigglypuff's Favor)
Jigglypuff's aerial prowess is a boon in this matchup. Sukapon has little defense when Jigglypuff comes in from above, him having no real anti-air attacks (his Up Tilt is more of a setup and his Up Smash has no vertical range). By stretching out with his Up Tilt, Sukapon can alleviate this, but Jigglypuff can pressure Sukapon to stop this and if he succeeds Jigglypuff can simply use low attacks- of course, this limits her to her Down Tilt, rather ineffective, unless Sukapon's stretched out a ridiculous amount and Jigglypuff can simply go under. Sukapon can get Jigglypuff to the ground with his Forward Aerial effectively, but you won't keep Jigglypuff on the ground for long. Still, Sukapon can easily knock around Jigglypuff and his air game can mostly match hers, and his substandard KOing ability is largely alleviated, so Jigglypuff's advantage is usually subtle.
Takamaru (75/25, Sukapon's Favor)
Takamaru's pressuring ability isn't as effective against Sukapon due to his defensive capability, him being able to stop Takamaru's approaches before he pressures. Sukapon, on the other hand, has an easy time pressuring Takamaru and his lack of approaches is complemented by Takamaru's lack of defense against approaches (or anything, for that matter). He also can KO Takamaru decently well, and his Side Special can easily avoid his KO moves. Characters who are vulnerable to pressure should stay away from Sukapon in general.
Shellder (50/50)
In the Sukapon versus Shellder matchup, each character has a major advantage over the other that end up cancelling each other out. Sukapon's advantage is how easy it is for him to land hits, with Shellder's bad movement speed. Of course Shellder has attacks to allow mobility, but Sukapon can stop these with pressure. Shellder's advantage is the little effect the pressure will have on him. Being all about defense, Shellder has plenty of options to reduce the effect, like his crouch and Down Special plus his high weight. In the end, this matchup depends on how fast Sukapon can dish out the hits and how much Shellder can sponge them.
Clefable (60/40, Clefable's Favor)
Clefable's self-proclaimed status as a "really annoying wall" is bad for Sukapon, his attacks pretty much bouncing off Clefable while they steadily lose effect due to her Cute Charm. While Clefable might take a lot of hits, they mean little to her. In addition, Clefable gets better and better throughout the match, as she uses moves like Minimize (her Down Special) and Sukapon loses power from Cute Charm. This matchup ends up similar to Sukapon versus Shellder, but due to better mobility in general, Clefable ends up with the advantage in this matchup.
Sloth (80/20, Sloth's Favor)
Sloth's range makes it very difficult to get close up to him and combo, and his power is going to **** the lightweight Sukapon. Even though he has bad speed, Sloth can still manage to land lots of hits on Sukapon each stock due to his sheer durability, chaining himself to boulders and having so much weight that Sukapon needs to get him to ridiculous percentages to finish him off. Sukapon's only clear advantage is that his pressure countering Sloth's... sloth when he rests, but Sloth can easily set up Behemoth's Tombs with his Side Smash despite the lag due to Sukapon being antsy around the powerful KOer that can finish him off at around 45% fully charged. Besides, Sloth's going to be KOing Sukapon so fast that he has plenty of openings between stocks to sleep. Sloth rivals the Ice Climbers for Sukapon's best counter.
Raven (50/50)
While it isn't particularly difficult for Sukapon to rack up Raven's damage, she's going to immediately set up defensive walls with her Down Special that impede Sukapon, meaning that he'll want to prevent her from spacing far enough to safely summon a wall. Still, the walls are most effective against campers, and Sukapon's projectile (Konaniran) is far from spammable, so they aren't a huge problem. Sukapon is going to want to approach Raven carefully, as she has a couple of scary moves at close range, but he can combo her just fine once he reaches her. While Raven definitely has the advantage damage-dealing, Sukapon ends up with an advantage KOing, as Raven finds it hard to avoid Sukapon's more powerful moves due to only average movement speed, size and lack of weight, the gimpability of her recovery rounding it off. In addition to this, Sukapon and Raven will end up reaching KOable percentages at around the same time, so Raven will be leaving herself open with her laggy KO moves as Sukapon tries to land equally laggy ones (hey, it's better than Raven not leaving herself open at all!). This matchup ends up frantically paced for being neutral, as both characters race their opponent for the kill.
Taunts
Up (Skapon Dance)
Sukapon does a little jig, swinging his arms above his head as his legs bounce around.
Side (Comedic Act)
Sukapon faces to the indicated direction and waves his arms up and down. If this is used during a crowd cheer, Sukapon speaks gibberish that causes the crowd to laugh, them beginning to cheer on Sukapon if used during an opponent's cheer. Great for taunt parties, and annoying people in general.
Down (Splits)
Sukapon slides his legs to the sides and sticks his arms out as he does two consecutive splits.
Alternate Costumes
Normal Sukapon.
Red-plated Sukapon.
Blue-plated Sukapon.
Green-plated Sukapon.
Hot pink-plated Sukapon.
Grayscale Sukapon.
If anybody is willing to make a picture for these costumes, please contact me!
Victory Screen Poses
Up (Comedian)
Sukapon does motions like in his Side Taunt as he directs a comedic act, causing the losers to occasionally giggle. Once they do, Sukapon gains a "^_^" face before resuming.
Side (Backflips)
Sukapon does rapid backflips onto the screen like in his Back Aerial, doing a bow once he lands.
Down (Jumping for Joy)
Sukapon jumps up eagerly in every direction with a permanent "^_^" on his face.
Loss Pose (Good Sport)
Sukapon claps eagerly for the winner, occasionally doing a hop in congratulations. What a fair guy!
Kirby's body seperates into two parts, his body and his disembodied head, also gaining a slightly shiny and metallic look. Kirby gains the ability to use Sukapon's Neutral Special, Konaniran, for the same effect.
Like with the alternate costumes, it would be appreciated if anybody would make a picture for this!
Solid Snake Codec Conversation
-PUSH SELECT-
SNAKE|Is it really too much to ask, Colonel? COLONEL|Snake, that's Sukapon, a robot designed to make people laugh who was remodeled into... SNAKE|No, I want to know why everybody in this Smash thing is always so unrealistic! COLONEL|Snake... SNAKE|This robot's still alive with a disembodied head and no limbs! COLONEL|Snake... SNAKE|Look! He just tossed his head off his body! How does he do that? COLONEL|Snake, I wouldn't be talking. How are the hitboxes on your Up Tilt realistic? SNAKE|*grumble*
Sukapon: Wow we went from a trap character to a quick and drug addict combo freak. At first while I was reading the first 3rd of the entire moveset, Sukapon gave off weak strength in the majority of his attacks. Then when I was done reading it I thought he wouldn't be able to kill for ****. But then I decided to read it again only to notice the majority of his attacks combo into each other, and deal out tons of damage. But I still think it doesn't help his KO potential moves . The moveset was creative; seeing how much you had to make it. I think the stats could use a little description of some sort. Also at some point I saw a move that takes two whole seconds to execute?
I try to keep my post count down, I swear I do. I only post when I have something to say, or when I want to comment on a set or two. I try and I try to do a Warlord-like compilation of mini-reviews and bring them out all at once, but then I see things like this. So being the decent guy that I am, I have to comment, and, of course, go on and on about how the chat was packed last night so I know that you all saw this and simply couldn't be bothered. And then my post count goes up yet again. Story of my MYMing life.
But seriously. This is a new record; 14 hours and ONE comment??? Absurd. Ridiculous. Preposterous. Kibble would shed a tear if he could see this.
Here's the kicker: Sukapon is really good. Like, he's really REALLY good. I'm not going to go on and on here because complimenting a set too much these days is apparently equivalent to killing it in the eyes of everyone who has yet to read it, but suffice to say that I'm incredibly impressed with this, and am adding him to my very short list of "SETS I REALLY LOVED" for this contest. And this bodes well.
The genius about Sukapon is that you seem to have predicted and already made your answer to the uprising Sakurai movement, where attacks don't have to be ridiculously creative and not every attack has to work with another; a larger emphasis on character and on feasibility in an actual Smash game. And that is exactly what's so brilliant about Sukapon. He's not a trap character, and he has no mechanic. He has one true projectile and absolutely no props. All he works with is his unique body shape and with a simple but awesome playstyle; he's a slow comboer. Envisaging FTilt into Jab is just fun, because it's FEASIBLE. It's so easy to see it actually happening and actually fitting into Brawl, but it's brilliant at the same time. The whole moveset is full of attacks that make sense, work perfectly, are uncomplicated, and fit snugly into the overall playstyle. I can't praise this enough, but be forewarned, everyone who's reading this without reading the set: there ARE attacks that can be perceived as generic, if you don't keep an open mind.
The only flaws I can see: the organization, while quite fitting, feels ripped directly from Balloon Fighter, and the attack names are a tad too big; the throws are certainly underdetailed and it's tough to understand them at times; the Specials are not really special when compared to the rest of the set, but then again, maybe that's another hallmark of a Sakurai-esque set. And I don't really care. I am impressed.
Sukapon: Wow we went from a trap character to a quick and drug addict combo freak. At first while I was reading the first 3rd of the entire moveset, Sukapon gave off weak strength in the majority of his attacks. Then when I was done reading it I thought he wouldn't be able to kill for ****. But then I decided to read it again only to notice the majority of his attacks combo into each other, and deal out tons of damage. But I still think it doesn't help his KO potential moves . The moveset was creative; seeing how much you had to make it. I think the stats could use a little description of some sort. Also at some point I saw a move that takes two whole seconds to execute?
Glad to hear it! Thanks for the comments! Yeah, he's underpowered. Side Special is a potential KO move too (ironically enough, it has better knockback than the Side Smash), I should have mentioned that.
I try to keep my post count down, I swear I do. I only post when I have something to say, or when I want to comment on a set or two. I try and I try to do a Warlord-like compilation of mini-reviews and bring them out all at once, but then I see things like this. So being the decent guy that I am, I have to comment, and, of course, go on and on about how the chat was packed last night so I know that you all saw this and simply couldn't be bothered. And then my post count goes up yet again. Story of my MYMing life.
But seriously. This is a new record; 14 hours and ONE comment??? Absurd. Ridiculous. Preposterous. Kibble would shed a tear if he could see this.
Here's the kicker: Sukapon is really good. Like, he's really REALLY good. I'm not going to go on and on here because complimenting a set too much these days is apparently equivalent to killing it in the eyes of everyone who has yet to read it, but suffice to say that I'm incredibly impressed with this, and am adding him to my very short list of "SETS I REALLY LOVED" for this contest. And this bodes well.
The genius about Sukapon is that you seem to have predicted and already made your answer to the uprising Sakurai movement, where attacks don't have to be ridiculously creative and not every attack has to work with another; a larger emphasis on character and on feasibility in an actual Smash game. And that is exactly what's so brilliant about Sukapon. He's not a trap character, and he has no mechanic. He has one true projectile and absolutely no props. All he works with is his unique body shape and with a simple but awesome playstyle; he's a slow comboer. Envisaging FTilt into Jab is just fun, because it's FEASIBLE. It's so easy to see it actually happening and actually fitting into Brawl, but it's brilliant at the same time. The whole moveset is full of attacks that make sense, work perfectly, are uncomplicated, and fit snugly into the overall playstyle. I can't praise this enough, but be forewarned, everyone who's reading this without reading the set: there ARE attacks that can be perceived as generic, if you don't keep an open mind.
The only flaws I can see: the organization, while quite fitting, feels ripped directly from Balloon Fighter, and the attack names are a tad too big; the throws are certainly underdetailed and it's tough to understand them at times; the Specials are not really special when compared to the rest of the set, but then again, maybe that's another hallmark of a Sakurai-esque set. And I don't really care. I am impressed.
Yeah, Balloon Fighter never got much reception so I thought I could simply rip off the organization. Sorry. Think of it as my tribute to Kibble.
Throws, I'll try to make them clearer.
The thing I did with the specials was translate Sukapon's special moves directly from Joy Mech Fight, so the originality suffered. For the standards I had free reign, so I got them to be more special than the specials.
Sukapon! I liked this guy from the moment I found out about him in the pre-Brawl days; I mean, what's not to love about a little pink robot? I decided to give this set a read after K.Rool praised it so highly. Unfortunately I have to say I don't like it nearly as much as K.Rool did.
Right off the bat are the specials which are, surprisingly, the least interesting moves in the entire moveset. From what Rool said, they're apparently taken directly from the game which excuses their...well...lack of interesting in all honesty. As I read on though, some of the moves just leapt out at me as absolutely wonderful, putting the specials to shame most noteably the up and down tilts, the up smash and forward air; I love that forward air.
Considering I reviewed Balloon Fighter I was able to pick out the layout but I must say it fits Sukapon equally well as it did Balloon Fighter; it's simple but it looks nice and gets the job does as I always say.
You also seem to have jumped on the match-up bandwagon...and I must say, they don't look bad. They actually look pretty believeable and I thank you -SO- much for not making the match up against Meta Knight awesome in Sukapon's favor and then have him be horrid against -Insert Rubbish Character of Choice Here- just for the sake of giving him a good Meta Knight match up.
Overall...part of me likes this more than Takamaru...but part of me prefers Takamaru if only for the originality it practically bled. Believe me, I know just how hard it is to make movesets for these retro characters, hell I made Mac who does nothing more than punch (although Warlord's going to totally show me up in a minute anyway so bleh) so I perfectly understand why Sukapon doesn't exactly have the originality of some of your other sets...but yeah, Sukapon's a good read for sure and is better than your Tingle set in my opinion...while it may not be the most original set ever, the original ideas you do use here work perfectly combined with Sukapon's playstyle as a whole.
SUKAPON
Right off the bat, you’re quite hypocritical what with how you demanded the specials to be first on Spadefox, but you have those obligatory animations which delay us from reading what we actually want to. I ditched those long ago. Rool still keeps them around for whatever reason, but at least he tacks them on at the end of the set so we don’t feel obligated to read them. I feel similar about situationals, as do many.
But anyway, that’s not the only reason I say this. The point of specials being first is that they’re supposed to capture one’s interest and draw them into the set, but they’re just so. . .Horribly boring here, especially in comparison to some of the much more awesome moves found in the rest of the set. Even if they are taken directly from the game, there’s no reason for them to occupy such important button inputs. I’d of probably merged the utilt/dtilt and made them the neutral special, for example.
That said, this moveset doesn’t really need to capture your interest for you to get through it, as it’s surprisingly extremely easy to digest. Takamaru improved on this, but Sukapon’s amazing in the readability department. Amazing. I also think the organization is fitting regardless of it being reused from Balloon Fighter (Makes more sense then Gold. . .).I can’t believe you’re the same guy who made the mess that was Tingle.
And not just for that reason. Unlike Tingle who had a massive amount of random awkward moves that were creative just for the sake of being creative and were only linked due to them being all traps, Sukapon flows. While he doesn’t flow into anything that’s amazing, this set was going for simplicity. As Rool said in the chat, this could be implemented into Brawl without missing a beat. While I would’ve liked to see the moveset come together as something slightly more interesting, it still passes. Also, the playstyle summary is a massive improvement from your previous ones. Good job all around there.
I’m also rather fond of your match ups and the fact that you did them at all. They’re all rather realistic and detailed, the important things, and still touch on some interesting facets of how the match ups would play out without going too crazy or pointing out trivial details. Easily one of the better sets of match ups I’ve seen.
I certainly don’t love this as much as Rool does, but I feel I like it a decent bit better then MT does. It’s the typical sacrificing creativity for playstyle, though there’s still some actual creativity left over. I like it. While I would prefer it to move more towards the creative isle or for it to come together as something more unique, that’d really make this moveset lose it’s unique flavor of being so easily implement-able into Brawl, a factor Vaati heavily relies on (Although the fact that we all like Vaati as a character while Sukapon is a bleh retro character puts bias against you). Sukapon is certainly a unique, enjoyable experience, to say the least.
Sukapon! I liked this guy from the moment I found out about him in the pre-Brawl days; I mean, what's not to love about a little pink robot? I decided to give this set a read after K.Rool praised it so highly. Unfortunately I have to say I don't like it nearly as much as K.Rool did.
Right off the bat are the specials which are, surprisingly, the least interesting moves in the entire moveset. From what Rool said, they're apparently taken directly from the game which excuses their...well...lack of interesting in all honesty. As I read on though, some of the moves just leapt out at me as absolutely wonderful, putting the specials to shame most noteably the up and down tilts, the up smash and forward air; I love that forward air.
Blah specials. I guess I had more originality in the standards than the specials! Something I can work on as Rool and MW mentioned it as well. Yeah, the fair was one of my favorite moves, and I found the usmash funny for some reason. Yay for fairs...?
Considering I reviewed Balloon Fighter I was able to pick out the layout but I must say it fits Sukapon equally well as it did Balloon Fighter; it's simple but it looks nice and gets the job does as I always say.
Good to hear, I was hoping that it would pay off as the large size-5 headers for individual moves could have easily looked sloppy. As I said to Rool, it's like my tribute to Kibble. That, and I couldn't think of anything more fitting.
You also seem to have jumped on the match-up bandwagon...and I must say, they don't look bad. They actually look pretty believeable and I thank you -SO- much for not making the match up against Meta Knight awesome in Sukapon's favor and then have him be horrid against -Insert Rubbish Character of Choice Here- just for the sake of giving him a good Meta Knight match up.
Though I did still do it with giving him positive matchups with Snake and Dedede and negative ones with Jigglypuff and Sheik, plus there was bias talking in the ICs matchup to be sure since I main them, but I'm so glad to hear that I pulled off the matchups correctly as I'm the one who was so irritated by matchup fudging in the first place.
Overall...part of me likes this more than Takamaru...but part of me prefers Takamaru if only for the originality it practically bled. Believe me, I know just how hard it is to make movesets for these retro characters, hell I made Mac who does nothing more than punch (although Warlord's going to totally show me up in a minute anyway so bleh) so I perfectly understand why Sukapon doesn't exactly have the originality of some of your other sets...but yeah, Sukapon's a good read for sure and is better than your Tingle set in my opinion...while it may not be the most original set ever, the original ideas you do use here work perfectly combined with Sukapon's playstyle as a whole.
Somehow I wasn't aiming for a lack of insane originality with this one, but it came out anyway (innuendo not intended) for some reason and I just went with it, maybe because giving Sukapon really complicated attacks would be out of character. Whatevs. Anyway, I guess I've joined this new feasability movement (we had the detail movement, then the playstyle movement and now the feasability movement!) along with SkylerOcon and... some other people. And I've come to the realization that playstyle>>>originality, insanely original moves don't mean anything if they don't mesh together.
MasterWarlord said:
Right off the bat, you’re quite hypocritical what with how you demanded the specials to be first on Spadefox, but you have those obligatory animations which delay us from reading what we actually want to. I ditched those long ago. Rool still keeps them around for whatever reason, but at least he tacks them on at the end of the set so we don’t feel obligated to read them. I feel similar about situationals, as do many.
I was pretty much joking about that, and on Spadefox Onishiba there obviously had to be specials last since it was Onishiba. How dare you challenge our sacred animations!... but yeah they're tedious to make and I usually have eighteen of them to do so maybe I'll prune them down/put them at the end/both. I disagree on situationals, though; I was obligated to put them in anyway because of the dash attack.
But anyway, that’s not the only reason I say this. The point of specials being first is that they’re supposed to capture one’s interest and draw them into the set, but they’re just so. . .Horribly boring here, especially in comparison to some of the much more awesome moves found in the rest of the set. Even if they are taken directly from the game, there’s no reason for them to occupy such important button inputs. I’d of probably merged the utilt/dtilt and made them the neutral special, for example.
Meh. Specials are becoming just another move category to me, I suppose. Since I'm trying to get realistic here I suppose it would be better to make them special. Yeah...
That said, this moveset doesn’t really need to capture your interest for you to get through it, as it’s surprisingly extremely easy to digest. Takamaru improved on this, but Sukapon’s amazing in the readability department. Amazing. I also think the organization is fitting regardless of it being reused from Balloon Fighter (Makes more sense then Gold. . .).I can’t believe you’re the same guy who made the mess that was Tingle.
So Tingle's readable now? Back in the days when I made that abominition Krow you were referring to it as evidence that I could make sets readable. Anyway, I'm glad to hear that I'm improving in this regard.
And not just for that reason. Unlike Tingle who had a massive amount of random awkward moves that were creative just for the sake of being creative and were only linked due to them being all traps, Sukapon flows. While he doesn’t flow into anything that’s amazing, this set was going for simplicity. As Rool said in the chat, this could be implemented into Brawl without missing a beat. While I would’ve liked to see the moveset come together as something slightly more interesting, it still passes. Also, the playstyle summary is a massive improvement from your previous ones. Good job all around there.
He was advertising this in the chat? I love Rool so much right now. Yeah, I was focusing on playstyle far more than originality here, and was trying to make the playstyle as unique as possible without ridiculous moves, but eh... I guess I should be proud that I managed a somewhat unique playstyle at all. Yay playstyles, I'm starting to enjoy writing them.
I’m also rather fond of your match ups and the fact that you did them at all. They’re all rather realistic and detailed, the important things, and still touch on some interesting facets of how the match ups would play out without going too crazy or pointing out trivial details. Easily one of the better sets of match ups I’ve seen.
Glad to hear it! I found them fun to do and a nice way to advertise sets (I chose Clefable mainly to advertise for Junahu), so I suppose I'll make them a permanent addition.
I certainly don’t love this as much as Rool does, but I feel I like it a decent bit better then MT does. It’s the typical sacrificing creativity for playstyle, though there’s still some actual creativity left over. I like it. While I would prefer it to move more towards the creative isle or for it to come together as something more unique, that’d really make this moveset lose it’s unique flavor of being so easily implement-able into Brawl, a factor Vaati heavily relies on (Although the fact that we all like Vaati as a character while Sukapon is a bleh retro character puts bias against you). Sukapon is certainly a unique, enjoyable experience, to say the least.
The good thing about Sukapon was that his attack may have generic (Obviously thats not a bad thing), though there is reason behind the whole set, which is the difference between this set and the likes of MYM1. There was a lot of detail on the attacks, these showing how they work with Sukapon. Along with reading the comments from others, I think this is an inspirational set, as it tells me of the importance of playstyle emphasis. Also = the end of the codec taunt is a laugh as well.
Thief Khee'bler: Interesting... I know I never would have been able to craft an entire moveset out of something like a contract. The mechanic is a little confusing at times, but it fits quite well, unlike the mechanics of quite a few movesets like Hades (sorry, Kupa, it's otherwise awesome). My main problem is that he seems underpowered, as K.Rool said. Even with perfect setup he's pretty much a average character, and without factoring that in the amount of setup he requires is just ridiculous for the payoff. I'm not very good with balance, but this is just an impression I got, I could very well be wrong. A minor concern is that you didn't make a playing against section, as they seem to be as important as regular playstyles these days. Anyway, I like this 'set quite a bit, so good job on it.
And here I thought the "Plain English" addition made it easier to interpret... :s
Heh heh, yeah... balancing Thief was a pain, and it still doesn't seem like I pulled it off quite right... I was really shooting more for the feel of the character as a whole, rather than actually being a workable character. The whole concept of defining rules for your opponent really appealed to me, and... well, this was my best shot at it.
Playing Against... yeah. That and a whole bunch of other extras was in the initial plan, but I kinda collapsed at the end and posted it with just the recolors. Be sure, however, that they'll be in future sets.
My "comment" on Thief was a genuine thing. I didn't have time to read him at the moment, but I wanted to acknowledge its existence by mentioning what I was able to read while simultaneously scolding Phatcat for that stupid repost (even if it was one of my fave MYM movesets). And I was the only person to comment on Guardian Digger, so nyah!
And now that I have finished reading him, I will start off by saying that my initial impression of the mechanic has somewhat been preserved and in some ways it hasn't. Namely, I like how many ways you were able to think of to explore the potential of the mechanic, but in some ways it did seem like there wasn't much else to him. Granted, I slightly disagree with Warlord as Thief does seem to have a decent amount of damaging attack (all of the aerials deal damage I believe), but it does seem like most of the time he'll just be negotiating a contract instead of actually fighting. And yeah, the down-special I agree is taking the Sundance meme a tad too far.
Regardless, it WAS certainly a very cool concept and more innovative than I thought a simple Final Fantasy "archetype" character would play, but I would suggest next time to integrate more ways of attacking the opponent instead of him handing out business cards.
Ah, that's fine. It's taken me long enough to reply to you, anyway.
Yeah... I suppose there really wasn't much else to Thief once you look over the mechanic... although, to be honest, that was intentional. I wanted to see just how much of the set I could make revolve around simply the mechanic itself... but as I've seen from Thief's reception, this didn't turn out that well.
Glad SOMEONE realizes how he can rack up the damage. I probably should have highlighted that FTilt a bit more...
Oh, and as for the down special... I've said it plenty of times in the chat, but never here... all that move served as was a LEGAL, ranged way to sign a contract. Originally, he was going to forge the opponent's signature... but then, that'd throw the legal part out of it. Sakurai is universal to every character, as he's essentially their boss while they're on the game. Whether that justifies it... well, I doubt it. Worth a shot.
I'd just like to say that I never asked Agi to include Sakurai in Thief. He did so on his own. A while before Thief was posted, Agi told me that I should be happy because one of Thief's moves was pure fan service to me. I asked him how that worked and he told me that "I need someone that's undeniable. Who better than Sakurai?" or something along those lines.
Anyway, I'm still kind of busy with other things, but I'm making some nice progress on Thief. That's right. I'm READING it. Agi, BE PROUD.
This.
Sundance never asked me to put Sakurai in the set. I actually went to him to get his blessing beforehand... something I doubt I'll do again, considering all the trouble it's caused.
I really like Sukapon. Like, not love. His Simplicity and In-Character techniques all create a very Brawl-esque Moveset Sakurai would Approve of. The slight Underdetail was a bit upsetting, but all-in-all it was good set i might just vote for.
So now I'm really, really behind on movesets again in terms of commenting. I've been working on sets over catching up, so I expect my new comment round will be one of my largest ever.
Well, I dont want to keep The thread waiting for a fresh new page (SMIRK) also i Just saw ive surpassed 450 Posts! *dances merrily in the light of his 451st post*
Bald Bull is the single most recurring opponent in the Punch Out!! series, even going so far as to appear in a spin off of it known as Arm Wrestling. The only game in the series in which he does not appear is the arcade version of Super Punch Out!!. He hails from Istanbul, Turkey, and just doesn’t seem to know when to go down, demanding a star punch or a TKO in some cases before he’ll finally be out for the count. While not the final opponent in the Wii version, many argue that the second fight against him is far harder then Macho Man’s or Sandman’s (The two boxers ranked higher then him). His only rival for the most iconic character in the series is King Hippo.
///STATS \\\
Size »»»9.5 Priority »»»8 Power »»»8 Weight »»»7.5 Falling Speed »»»7 Range »»»6.5 Traction »»»6 Movement »»»4 Attack Speed »»»3.5 Aerial Movement »»»3 Recovery »»»2 Jumps »»»2
Pretty much your stock heavyweight, though there’s even more emphasize then usual on a poor air game and terrible recovery. While Bull –can- recover, it still is no better then Falco’s up B at best, but only far more gimpable. His side special provides an alternative, but it’d be a shame to waste just a good KO move on something as trivial as recovery. While Bull’s priority is excellent and even has a few grabs involved, it’s still jointed. Nothing can compete with the masses of static, disjointed hitboxes running rampant throughout MYM.
///SPECIALS \\\
Neutral Special – Ottoman Fortress
Bald Bull hunches over slightly and starts whirling his hands together in front of himself rapidly for as long as you hold B, taking as much time to start this up as Bowser’s fire breath. During the charging phase, Bull’s gloves are not hurtboxes, thus you can use this move as a shield against projectiles. Bull can move his whirling fists up to his head level or down to his feet as he charges for better protection as he charges, the gloves dealing slight set knockback (A platform or so) away from Bull (But no damage).
Upon releasing B (And there’s no limit to how long you can “charge”), Bull punches either straight forward, down low, or does an uppercut depending on what you input with the control stick (Default is forward). The punch reaches slightly under half a platform away from Bull and comes out a tad bit slower then Wario’s ftilt, though it has good priority. It comes out just fast enough to hit anybody sent away by the set knockback as you were whirling your gloves around. The punch deals 12% and knockback that kills at 165%. Yes, the “charging” phase doesn’t actually charge the move, but if you press A while whirling your gloves around you’ll fake the punch (Just do half the startup animation) and go back into the whirling fortress quickly afterward. [12%]
Side Special – Bull Charge
Bald Bull stops where he is (Even in mid-air, defying gravity if necessary) as he lets out a roar, steam blowing out his nostrils as his head turns red with charge. He starts running rapidly in place as long as you hold B to charge the move, then upon releasing B charges forwards. Aside from the gravity defying properties, this essentially appears to be Ike’s side B minus the disjointedness, though he’ll continue his mad dash even if he hits somebody, plowing right through them, and he moves twice as fast – he’s like a human blur.
As Bull takes damage, though, he gets more and more enraged. The higher Bull’s damage, the farther he travels and the more powerful this move is. After taking, say, 50%, you don’t have to charge the move at all to get a maxxed Ike side B, and if you do fully charge you get double Ike’s side B. However, once you use the move, all your pent up rage is let out, and you have to start over again. . .Try to get this up to the point where it’ll be a KO move without even needing to charge the move at all, then unleash your Turkish fury on the foe in one fell swoop. Also, if your rage is 50% or higher, you’ll have superarmor during the charge to boot. Bull’s rage resets with each stock. [Variable Damage]
Up Special – Turkey Dance
Bald Bull essentially does the chicken dance motion, getting his arms into positions as if they were wings and “flapping” them, saying some Turkish dancing words. In the air, each time he “flaps” propels him into the air as much as one of Charizard’s (pitiful) extra jumps, and he flaps twice each second. The recovery lasts 2 seconds and his arms are pitifully low priority hitboxes that do 6% and weak set knockback each time he “flaps”, and he can’t come out of the move until he touches ground, so this recovery is as easy to gimp as it is ridiculous. Coming in and out of this attack is lagless.
When used on the ground, you discover that Bald Bull is not simply acting like a turkey due to being Turkish but is instead calling his enemy one. You can come in and out of the move at any time you so desire when used on the ground, and more importantly you’ll taunt anybody within half Battlefield’s distance. So long as anybody is within that distance while you’re performing this move, they aren’t allowed to back away from you – only come closer. In addition, being called chicken (Or turkey, rather) is enough motive for the enemy to not just hide like a pansy and camp. This literally forces your foe to approach. [6%]
Down Special - Anticipation
Bald Bull smacks his fists together in front of him eagerly in anticipation, snorting as he does so. This only reaches out as far as Wario’s fsmash, and has average starting and ending lag (Say, Dedede’s usmash). As if that wasn’t enough, there’s little reward to actually land the thing, as it only deals 3% and flinching.
Of course, that’s rather pathetic for a special in both usefulness and originality. The first thing you’ll notice about this attack is that despite the lag, it’s very spammable – if you input the move again during the ending lag, the move will start up again instantly, ignoring the ending lag and cutting the starting lag by 2/3rds. The priority of the move is pathetic at first, but goes up higher and higher the more you use it in succession.
Still, the move doesn’t particularly sound more notable then a neutral A combo. The thing is that Bald Bull is psyching himself up for his next move here, and he snorts more and more steam as he rapidly smacks his fists together. You reach maximum anticipation level after 4 seconds of this, indicated by Bald Bull’s head turning red with rage. So anyway, you can unleash your anticipation by inputting any move during the ending lag of one of the periods where you smack your fists together. For every .10 seconds you charged like this, the starting lag of the move you exit your anticipating session with will be cut by 1%. Your Side Special is the exception, in which case every .10 seconds you charge will act as if you had 1% more damage dealt to you.
The Bull Charge is the obvious move to exit this stance with, as it allows you to charge up from a distance but still be able to hit foes from afar by charging over to them. Just beware that it’s painfully obvious what you’re going to do if you charge like this for long. [3%]
///STANDARDS \\\
Standard Attack – Wind Up Punch This is DK’s neutral B, through and through. Unlike DK, Bull has to keep rapidly tapping A to keep winding up his arm, and upon release is when he’ll throw the punch. Of course, this isn’t nearly as useful seeing Bull can’t hold the charge or use this in the air, but it has its moments. [Variable Damage]
Dashing Attack – Shoulder Charge
Bald Bull jabs his elbow forward as he continues to dash (Think Wario’s fsmash actually being performed in his games), yelling “Outta my way!” in Turkish as he does so. Bull continues dashing as long as you hold A (Sorry, Junahu). It reaches out as far as Kirby in front of Bull. His elbow has super armor during this attack, making this a decent approach, and contact with his elbow deals 9% and knockback that kills at 260%. Be forewarned that aside from attacking you from above or behind, foes can just casually dtilt you to foil your approach (Aside from the elbow that has no priority), so Bull is better off forcing foes to approach him. While he could run straight into a barrage of projectiles to get to his foes, why would he want to take the damage when he can just make a Ottoman Fortress to absorb the projectiles? [9%]
///TILTS \\\
Forward Tilt – Bull Headed
Bald Bull slams his head down forwards for lag and range on par with Mario’s fsmash with above average priority. This deals 7% and pitfalls the foe, though it’s twice as easy to get out of it as normal. Anyway, if you use your ftilt again just after a previous use, the move will come out 25% faster. The pitfall effect can be renewed before it ends. You can probably see where this is going, no?
You can renew the pitfall effect up to four times for a hefty 28%, but Bald Bull will groggily fall over backwards (turning around to land on his stomach) after the final headbutt, stunned as if he broke his shield (though lying down and once he comes out of it he’s ready to use a situational). While you can just not use this the fourth time, the ending lag when you don’t follow up the ftilt with another ftilt is rather bad (More then Bowser’s fsmash). You’ll mainly want to use this only to get the last bit of damage you need rather then early on, as then the foe won’t be able to get out of the pitfall effect in time to punish you (At least if you don’t go for the fourth headbutt. . .).
It’s not entirely useless at early percents, though, as if Bald Bull slams his head into the ground (Whiffing the move) he’ll gain rage for his side special as if he’d taken 4% damage. This may not sound like much, but you can easily use this three times in succession for a free 12% (Though it’ll be difficult to find a chance to get in the fourth headbutt to get 16%. . .). [7%]
Up Tilt – Bull’s Ring Bald Bull reaches up with both of his arms for an upward grab. He reaches up around as high as Luigi is tall, giving the move average range. The lag is identical to his regular grab, which is around as laggy as Wario’s grab. After grabbing a foe here, Bald Bull can perform a throw on them as normal. Seeing Bald Bull absolutely hates being in the air, it’s generally better to just grab the foe out of the air then going up after them. [0%]
Down Tilt – Low Blow
Bald Bull smacks down at a humanoid crotch level, his arm reaching out as far as Charizard’s fsmash with decent priority. Of course, against characters like Kirby, this is merely notable for actually hitting down on their level, but against said humanoids they’ll take increased knockback and hitstun if it does indeed hit in that uncomfortable region (Though they only hold their gut in pain rather then their crotch.). This is about as laggy as Wario’s ftilt. This does 11% and knockback that kills at 180%, or 140% sweetspotted. Against characters that you can’t sweetspot this on (Kirby), it kills at 160%. [11%]
///SMASHES \\\
Forward Smash – Bucking Bronco
Bald Bull rapidly runs in place while he charges the move (He doesn’t turn red/snort like the Side Special), then upon releasing the button input dashes forward at the speed of Captain Falcon’s run (Far faster then his default, though nothing compared to his Side Special). You can turn him around (Though his traction here is terrible) as he runs about in his mad dash, and he’ll continue to run until he’s covered the ground of half Battlefield – all of Final Destination depending on how long you charge. Unlike Bull’s Side Special, he’s capable of running straight off ledges with this attack.
If you come into contact with somebody during this move with your big head, Bald Bull butts his head forwards with great priority to knock foes up onto his back, where they’re trapped in a grab. You can press A again to buck them off for 18% vertical knockback that kills at 140%, or simply try to run off the edge with them for a suicide. Beware this is difficult, though, as foes only stay on your back for .4 seconds (Though button mashing won’t help) if you don’t buck them off.
The move only has the starting lag of Jigglypuff’s fsmash, but the ending lag is pretty bad (starting lag of Charizard’s side special) as Bald Bull puts his hands on his knees and pants. If your foe decides to simply go up on a platform out of range, you can skid to a stop by pressing B, ending the move early but cutting the end lag in half. [18%]
Up Smash – Snatch
Bald Bull turns to face the screen and holds his hands above his head as he charges the smash. . .But you can move them around at will as you charge, and you’re able to reach up to Luigi’s height in any direction (Besides below you) with Bull’s large arms. Upon releasing the smash, Bull reaches forwards with his arms very quickly (Wario’s fsmash), creating a grab hitbox around said overweight plumber’s size. The ending lag isn’t pretty if whiffed, but it’s not terrible (Ike’s fsmash end lag).
If you hit with the move, they’re grabbed as if you got them in your grasp with a regular grab. This would easily be your main way to grab, but your petty foes seem to have some tricks up their sleeves. If you release the move with Bull’s arms overlapping his head, he’ll grab it and knock himself down for terrible ending lag (Dedede’s fsmash start lag). Considering you can’t cancel this and you’re forced to release it eventually, foes will try to lure your arms to overlap with your head. This increases Bull’s rage by a rather impressive 15%, but it’s more a consolation prize for whiffing the move so utterly then something to go for. [0%]
Down Smash – Damned Rage
Bald Bull turns to face the screen and rapidly begins smacking. . .Himself? He yells out “Damn you!” in Turkish four times in succession during the move. He smacks himself in the head a total of 5 times over a duration as long as Wario’s dsmash, the move having great priority and Bull reaching his arm around Mario’s height before smacking it down on his head (He crouches down for the move, meaning this functions as more then just anti air). Each smack deals 16-26% with knockback that kills at 120-140%. It’s impossible to hit the same person with more then one smack unless they WANT to get hit.
Considering there’s no lag to enter the move, it can look pretty appealing, but once you whiff it you’ll learn to hate the move, as if Bald Bull hits himself with all 5 smacks, he’ll knock himself out on the floor briefly as if he broke his shield, and even when he comes out of it he’ll be in his lying on stomach position. Unlike the ftilt, you can’t hold yourself back here – it’s all or nothing. However, if you hit a foe with one of the smacks, Bald Bull won’t hit himself with that particular smack, meaning he won’t knock himself out at end of the move and negate the ending lag. Each time Bald Bull smacks himself adds to his rage as if he’d taken 4% damage, so if used properly this can send your foes flying and build your rage at the same time. [16-26%]
///AERIALS \\\
Neutral Aerial – Istanbul Grab
Bald Bull turns to face the screen and opens his arms wide like in the picture. He leans into the background as he does this, becoming invulnerable. He stays in the background for as long as you hold A with a maximum duration of 1.5 seconds. This has only very slight lag to come in and out of, but can only be used once each time you’re in the air.
Upon releasing A, Bald Bull suddenly sweeps his arms forward as he stops leaning back and comes back onto the battlefield, his arms being a grab hitbox as they sweep foes up against himself. With a foe grabbed, you still fall at your normal speed, but you and the foe both have control over the DI, much like with Bowser’s side special. This can be used for Bullcides, or you can just land on the ground to launch the foe upwards for 14% and knockback that kills at 145%. Bald Bull has lag around the level of Bowser’s uair when he reaches out to grab, though the range is huge as he sweeps out his arms, a third a platform on either side of him. Foes can button mash out of this early with 1.5X the normal grab difficulty, and they have plenty of time to do so seeing Bull doesn’t fall nearly as fast as the other suicide grabs of this nature.
What makes this much more usable is that Bald Bull’s air dodge is identical in animation to the first part of this attack.. You can abuse your air dodge a lot since it’s a rather lengthy one (Though the lag on both ends is bad), then suddenly throw in the nair and perform the grab part of the move when the air dodge would normally end to throw your foes off. [14%]
Forward/Back Aerial – Stubborn Bull
When Bald Bull is hit by an attack that sends him flying into the air, the momentum of the blow forces his body to lean in the direction opposite he was hit from, unlike other characters. At first this might seem to be a simple animation, but if you use the fair/bair, you can lean forward/back against the force of the blow. What does this actually do? It brings your aerial momentum to an abrupt halt. Think of Game & Watch’s bucket. While the move has a rather lengthy duration (DK’s fair) and the momentum only fully stops at the end, if you input this correctly the moment you’re hit you can cut the knockback of the attack you were hit by in half. These moves make Bald Bull far more difficult to kill as he stubbornly refuses to die and are absolutely crucial to his game. . . .Oh, and Bull’s body is a laughably bad priority hitbox as Bull leans in the desired direction that does 6% and weak set knockback, but that doesn’t really matter, now does it? [6%]
Up Aerial - Squash
Bald Bull turns to face the camera and claps his fists together above his head. He does a very large sweep, his arms/hands pushing foes up to the middle where they connect during the large starting lag (Bowser’s uair). The main hitbox is when the fists connect, creating a hitbox the size of Wario (He has superarmor during this part so priority doesn’t matter) that deals 14% and squashes foes into cartoonish pancakes. Foes slowly drift down around Mario’s height while like this, though they’re completely invulnerable and you can go through them with ease. This restores the foe’s jumps/up special so it can’t be used to gimp, but it’s good to buy Bull some time so he won’t get gimped himself. [14%]
Down Aerial – Pile Driver
Bald Bull essentially goes upside down in mid-air, then juts out his elbow downwards and falls at immense speeds. Yep, your standard stall then fall. Bull’s elbow deals 20% and spiking knockback on par with Ganon’s dair, but considering he continues to fall regardless of whether you hit anything it’s rather impractical for gimping. While the landing lag for the move is terrible, Bull thankfully has superarmor for the entire attack besides the start up. This move’s main purpose is more like that of the fair/bair in that it stops your vertical aerial momentum by 50% during the start-up lag, then sends Bull crashing back down to the stage to continue the battle. [20%]
///THROWS \\\
Grab – Head Lock
Bull’s grab length is much better then the likes of Bowser and Ganon, but a decent bit below Dedede’s. The lag is on par with Wario’s (Hope you enjoyed those comparisons, Rool.). Overall, a pretty good grab, especially when you factor in the utilt, but Bull’s dash grab decreases the range a lot and has terrible ending lag. Bald Bull holds the foe in a head lock for his grab. . .Or a body lock in Kirby’s case. [0%]
Pummel - Noogie
Bald Bull laughs as he gives the foe trapped in the head lock a noogie, envying their hair (Or just simply making their bald head shine for Kirby or mirror matches). This deals only 2%, but is surprisingly very spammabale, on par with Lucario’s excellent pummel. The catch is that due to Bald Bull enjoying taunting his opponent here, it decreases his rage as if he’d taken 2% less damage each time you do a pummel. It’s best to go for this early on at the start of a match before you get any rage. [2%]
Forward Throw – Double Punch
Bald Bull tosses the foe into the air lightly for zero damage, then smacks them backwards for 4% knockback that kills at, like, 300%. Bull runs backwards rapidly to try to go after the foe, then upon reaching under them he jumps up and smacks them forwards for 8% knockback that kills at 50% (!). Bull won’t pursue foes off of ledges and you’ll regain control of him early in said case.
The catch here is that the knockback of the first punch will knock foes too far for Bull to do a follow up once they’re at about 70% (He’ll stop trying and you’ll regain control of him after he runs a bit and fails to catch them), and the fact that Bull knocks the foe backwards and then hits them with the powerful punch forwards makes it considerably harder to KO with. As if that wasn’t enough, at higher percents you’ll need a bit of a runway behind you to perform the throw properly. [4%/12%]
Back Throw – Arm Wrestling
Bald Bull lets the foe out of the head lock and simply grabs their right arm with his (Spinning around to face the other direction), then gets into an arm wrestling contest with the foe, a throwback to his appearance in this (terrible) Punch Out spin off. From here, both you and the victim button mash to determine who comes out on top. The loser gets knocked to the ground and takes 15% damage. Unlike most throws of this nature, this button mashing contest isn’t rigged in Bull’s favor at all, but it becomes 1% rigged in the enemy’s favor for every 1% damage they have (If Bull’s foe has 10% and Bull only 0%, it’ll be rigged 60/40 Bull’s favor). Considering you’re the only one with the ability to activate this, this should more often then not be rigged in your favor. [15%]
Up Throw – Juggling Act
Bald Bull carelessly tosses the foe upwards out of his grasp quickly for a “meh” 8% and weak set upward knockback about 1.5 Ganondorf’s height upwards. But the thing is that Bull intentionally wasn’t putting in his full force here – the foe goes into their helpless state after they reach the top of their arc. Bull reaches his arm up to try to catch the foe as they come back down, and you can move him back and forth at his walking speed while the foe must DI away from your fist so as to not be caught in it and just thrown back up again for another 8%. Even on characters with the fastest of aerial DI/fall speed such as Wario and Fox, if you predict which way they DI you can potentially regrab them if you head in that direction at the soonest possible moment. It’s all mindgames with this throw to chain it. Bald Bull comes out of this stance the moment the foe actually hits the ground. [8%]
Down Throw – Turkish Delight
Bald Bull simply throws his foe down to the ground for a meaty 15%, leaving them in their prone state. The damage total is rather impressive, but Bald Bull taunts the foe in satisfaction afterwards, laughing “Heh heh heh!” as he looks down at the victim, towering over them. The ending lag of this throw is plenty long enough for the foe to punish (Go for a star, Mac baby!), but the catch is that if Bald Bull’s taunt is interrupted the rage that he needs for his side special will get an additional 10% added to it. This a good way to build up your rage while taking less damage. Beware; though, if your foe decides it’s not worth it you’ll lose 10% from your rage, but in that case it’s still free damage. It’s a win-win situation. [15%]
///FINAL SMASH – PUNCH OUT!! \\\
Bald Bull yells out “Come on!” in Turkish and does a motion similar to Captain Falcon’s taunt, but not so flamboyantly. If anybody is within a Battlefield Platform in front of Bald Bull when he performs this move, they’ll be locked into the final smash, otherwise it ends right there.
If you hit with the initial hitbox, the camera pans behind the enemy and the gameplay goes into a typical arcade boxer format. You can both press A and aim either high, low, or in the middle to punch that point of your enemy’s body. Foes deal 2% per hit and 4% per headshot, while Bald Bull does double damage due to the battle not being in his field of expertise. You can both press B to block any of the three points of your body, as well as move right and left ever so slightly to do a brief dodge.
However; Bald Bull has an option that his foe can’t do – a deadly right and left hook that you input like you would a fsmash/bsmash. This deals 20% and knockback on par with Bowser’s fsmash, ending the final smash early. These two deadly hooks out prioritize all enemy punches and can’t be blocked, and must be dodged by moving in the opposite direction Bull punches. Of course, these can be hard to hit with due to the lag, so you can fake them by inputting a ftilt/btilt to do the startup animation but not actually the punch, then punish the foe for their dodge.
If you don’t smack the foe out of the final smash early with a hook, the final smash lasts 12 seconds. [Variable Damage]
///PLAYSTYLE\\\
Bull likes to play defensively. While he can’t approach all that well, he can force the enemy to with his Turkey Dance, as well as block all projectiles with his Ottoman Fortress. While Bull is helpless in the air, he has no reason to ever go into it and can simply bring a foe down his utilt or usmash to snatch them out of the air into a nice grab. In the event Bull is forced into the air, you can just abuse the superarmor on the dair to get back on the ground in an instant (While he’ll take a bit of damage, Bull doesn’t really mind). You’ll also want to use air dodges as much as possible when in the air throughout the match, then unleash a nair instead of a traditional air dodge when the foe least expects it. From here, you can suicide or bring the foe back to the ground where Bull plays best.
At the start of a match you’ll be wanting to abuse your grab game to rack the damage. In particular, if you can manage to get in a grab before being hit at all you can go some pummels to rack up some quick damage, and so long as you stay in the lead you can do some Arm Wrestling, which when rigged in your favor are pretty much free damage. Of course, being the slow, lumbering heavyweight he is, he’s not likely to get into the lead or stay there for long. In fact, Bull’s damage will probably far exceed that of his opponent. But that’s perfectly fine. With your fair, bair, and dair, Bull won’t die by normal means any time remotely soon.
So if Bull can’t get sent flying off the sides of the top, what’s left? The bottom. Bull is pathetically easy to gimp considering he’s locked into his terrible recovery for so long. While Bull can just activate his side special the moment he’s able to after being sent flying, this robs him of his by far best KO move, as it prevents him from building up his rage due to unleashing it for recovery. Since neither of these options are appealing, you’ll just want to stay away from the edges. You can force the foe to center stage with your up special, or just encourage them to come by building up your rage with moves like your ftilt and kill two birds with one stone.
Speaking of rage, it’s a fine alternatives to try to focus on building up your rage rather then your foe’s damage. Dthrow in particular is a great way to get it up fast, and dsmash lets you attack your foe, build your rage, and unlike most of the other moves doesn’t leave you open for punishment if pulled off. If you build up the rage for your Bull charge enough, it becomes a far easier to land KO move that can potentially be much more powerful to boot, but keep in mind you only have one shot at it.
It’s best to generally aim for somewhat of a middle ground as you build up your rage and your enemy’s damage, seeing you don’t want to whiff your Bull Charge and be entirely screwed over, but your other KO moves are laggy and awkward to land. Seeing some moves build both at once anyway, it works quite nicely. Don’t worry about taking damage – it’s a good thing! So long as you force the foe back where you want them to, you won’t be dying until absurd percentages. If you play your cards right, you might even be able to get in two bull charges powerful enough to KO on the same stock.
///MATCH-UPS\\\
Vs. Meta Knight: 10/90, Meta Knight’s favor
What’s this? An actual disadvantageous match up against Meta Knight? Amazing! Well, considering Bull’s primary weakness is his gimpability and how insanely good MK is at gimping, it all makes too much sense. Bull will have to use his side special for recovery if he wants to have any hope of survival, so throw out your rage right off the bat. While Bull does have –some- options in this fight like abusing the superarmor on dair to out-prioritize the tornado, the fact he’s even thinking of going into the air shows that there’s something terribly, terribly wrong with this match up.
Vs. King Dedede: 0/100, Down Throw’s favor
You knew it was coming. Bull can not only be chain grabbed, but infinited. Not just a tiny step “infinite” like Bowser or one with a catch like those of Samus, Mario, and Luigi, but a full fledged infinite like DK’s. Counterpick against Dedede if you have half a brain.
Vs. Mario: 50/50
Bald Bull’s recovery (Including the Bull Charge, don’t waste it) is just BEGGING to be caped/and or FLUDDed. That said, Mario has little in the way of getting Bull out off the stage where he can do that. Mario’s moves are too weak to send Bull flying far enough, and they’re not fast enough to overwhelm Bull either. Mario has few ways to approach Bull seeing has superior range and priority, particularly with his anti air grabs and how easily he negates Mario’s projectiles. While Bull absolutely dominates the ground, the moment he’s a decent ways off the stage it’s pretty much a lost stock. While Bull can build up his rage to 50% to give his side special superarmor so he can’t be caped, it’s generally not worth wasting your KO move for it.
Vs. Lucario: 75/25, Bald Bull’s favor
Bald Bull doesn’t need to rack up all that much damage before he can KO Lucario, and seeing how Lucario loves to get additional damage Bull can focus entirely on building up his rage rather then Lucario’s damage to leave Lucario’s aura as weak as possible. In addition, Bull can easily negate Lucario’s already poor camping ability, leaving him with little option. While Lucario –can- gimp Bull, he’s far from the best, and if you leave him weak and without aura he won’t be strong enough to knock you away from where you want to fight the battle.
Vs. Dingodile: 90/10, Bald Bull’s favor
Bald Bull is THE Dingodile counterpick. Walk up to the edge of Dingodile’s crystals. Turkey Dance. Game, set, match. Dingodile’s entire playstyle is utterly ruined due to him being unable to use his projectiles inside his crystals, and without his ability to camp he’s really quite mediocre. While Dingodile can still hit Bull with his kamikaze pretty easily, Dingo won’t be able to get nearly enough damage to actually kill Bull with it.
Vs. Spadefox: 50/50
You can kiss your rage goodbye the moment Spadefox spawns thanks to his neutral special, so feel free to use your side special for recovery. While Bull is pretty crippled without his Bull Charge, he can still play like a relatively normal heavyweight against Spadefox without too many problems, and there’s little else Spade can do to Bull. He can’t even rob you of your recovery with his usmash/uair without locking both your side and up specials. On the other hand, Bull’s slowness makes him an easy target to stack status effects on. This can really go either way.
Vs. Thief: 90/10, Bald Bull’s favor
The blatantly obvious thing for Thief to do is to outlaw Bull’s side special. While one would think this would be a great option against Bull, it doesn’t particularly matter as a good Bull player only uses it when it will actually KO, which negates the contract and prevents Thief from using his all powerful smashes. In addition, Thief has an annoying time locking out Bull’s throws, as Thief has to outlaw out both his grab, his utilt, and his usmash before rendering him unable to get him in his grasp. While Theif can outlaw Bull’s fair/bair/dair to KO him much more easily, Thief doesn’t gain access to his KO moves until Bull uses these moves, which he has no reason to do. Really, there isn’t much you can outlaw that Bull won’t find a way around, and seeing Thief can’t gimp to save his life, he’s pretty well screwed.
Vs. Leafeon: 80/20, Leafeon’s favor
You’d think the Turkey Dance would completely shut down those pesky trap characters, but no. It only shuts down projectiles. While it can be annoying for Leafeon to not be able to back away, he can still continue to set up traps while you just sit there clucking like the Turkish idiot you are. Bull has to put the pressure on Leafeon seeing his traps are either permanent or self renewing and there’s no limit to how many he can make, and that’s something he’s pretty bad at. While Bull will get in the first KO without question, that’s plenty easy enough. Leafeon will easily envelop Bull in an entire jungle before things go on too long.
Vs. Little Mac: 60/40, Bald Bull’s favor
For reasons similiar to the above match up, Bald Bull has problems against Mac in that he gives him time to set up his equipment. Mac feels no desire to approach and can just continue to set up traps as he taunts him and goes into his defensive stance. That said, Bull does have a good defensive game and can force Mac to come to him rather then Mac forcing him over to the traps, so they really don't matter until Mac picks up momentum with some combos. Bull is a rather easy character to get tagging punches on and Bull can't land KO moves all that well until he gets some rage, so Bull can't expose Mac in his early moment of gimpability. Really, a rather close match-up, but it goes to Bull, particularly for the fact that he can build up rage without taking damage with attacks like ftilt while Mac sets up traps.
Vs. Umbreon: 65/35, Bald Bull’s favor
Bull is very good at waiting out the night and preventing Umbreon from doing anything too useful during it. In particular, Umbreon’s main KO move, his dsmash, is negated by Bull preventing Umbreon from going to run and hide via his Turkey Dance. As far as Bull defending himself, he can constantly keep a Ottoman Fortress up as a shield in front of himself, as well as abuse his good air dodges (And eventually surprise him with a nair, which will stall time all the longer for the sun to come out). During the day, neither combatant has a clear advantage. While one might think Bull being forced to play so defensively would be bad, this is what he’s best at anyway, so he doesn’t really mind, and considering Bull locks out Umbreon’s main KO move, he gets the match up. Fighting > Dark.
Vs. Espeon: 70/30, Espeon’s favor
Force Espeon away from those damn Wishes and Future Sights with your Turkey Dance to eliminate one of Espeon’s primary threats completely and utterly. Even if Espeon has a Sixth Sense up, there’s little he can do to stop it. On the other hand, Bull is generally very crippled by Sixth Sense as the mindgame potential of neutral special and nair are nearly completely negated, and his slow moves become all the more ridiculously telegraphed. Psychic > Fighting.
///EXTRAS\\\
Up Taunt – Battle Cry
Bald Bull raises his fists into the air and shakes them violentely as he yells out “I WILL PULVERIZE ANYONE WHO LOOKS AT ME THE WRONG WAY, MAN!” in Turkish.
Side Taunt – Cannibal Bull
Bald Bull gnashes his teeth forward and says “I’m going to eat you, man!” in Turkish.
Down Taunt – No Savior
Bald Bull folds his arms, smirks, then says in Turkish “No one can save you from Bald Bull!”.
Entrance – Running of the Bull
Bald Bull bull charges in from the background. Good job wasting all your rage before the fight even started, Bull!
Win Pose 1 – Turkish Losers
Bald Bull turns to the losers and says “Is there anyone among you threatening me?” in Turkish, then proceeds to do his Turkey Dance as you stay on the results screen, mocking his foes. This it the origin of his up special.
Win Pose 2 - Apprentice
Bald Bull grabs the lowest placing loser, then pulls them off the results screen, saying “I’m going to make you my errand boy” in Turkish.
Win Pose 3 – Broken Bones
The foes perform their loss animations, but suddenly their backs break and they fall over onto their backs in pain. Bald Bull laughs and says “They wouldn’t call me Bald Bull if I didn’t break their bones!” in Spanish.
Turkish, you idiot.
Win Pose against Little Mac – Doc Mockery
Bald Bull turns to Doc specifically and says “Hey, Doc, are you teaching Mac how to get beat up?” in Turkish mockingly, then laughs.
Loss Pose – Gloves Off
Bald Bull tries to clap with his boxing gloves still on, but sees it’s rather difficult to do so. He pain stakingly tries to take them off and fails miserably, not getting them off unless you stay on the screen for a good 15 seconds, at which point he claps with his hands normally.
@Sukapon: Congratulations, Wizzerd! You have effectively made a moveset that can make Brawl Captain Falcon look like Meta-Knight. Please, next time you make a set, realize that having an attack that takes four seconds to execute is no good. Your neutral attack is absolute trash, considering that nearly every NAir in the game would go through it, and undeniably every projectile would. Your forward smash is essentially a laggy, predictable move, and with a high amount of lag, it would be impossible to combo with this, sorry. Try cutting your lag in half and making this move actually worth using.
I'm going to assume that your up smash may actually be a useful move, due to the fact that you didn't list any amount of lag for it. Though, if I were to judge by your set so far, it should have about two seconds of start-up and ending lag, invalidating its usefulness (like every attack except the specials!). Your down smash is also good, but I'd assume if you had taken the care to mention its lag, you would've given it a few seconds on each end.
The neutral air is a good idea, and doesn't suffer from the terrible lag that most of your moves seem to, but its trash because it lasts until you hit the ground. That's pretty much asking for every character to BAir camp you until they hit you due to range. The forward air is the first move that I don't have any complaints with since the specials. Nice! Back air is good (still no lag mentions, so we'll also go ahead and mark this one up to two seconds on each end), up air is good... but now you're talking about combos? I'm... I'm confused. I wasn't even aware there was another move that hit upwards in your set! Your down air is pretty much asking for the opponent to come and hit you with their highest priority aerial, so I'd say buff the priority on that move to make it actually useful.
And... how exactly does your forward throw work? During grab release animations, you can't attack until, well, the animation is over. That's hardly fair. Unless the instant is supposed to mean some measure of time, in which case I'm incredibly confused as to what exactly an instant is The rest of the throws I won't comment on, because they're not bad... just useless.
Well, I've said what I had to say. Sukapon has about three cool ideas and entirely to much lag. Also, he's not a combo character. Don't be stupid and say he is, because his moves simply weren't made to mesh together. Skyler was definitely heated, but I made **** sure that his moves meshed - Sukapon just feels like generic attacks with too much lag with some text that says "If I say I'm a combo character, I'm a combo character, right?"
Such a shame, too. I was looking forward to this set only to see that it was attempting to be something it wasn't.
Oh yeah, forgot to mention, your down special and your forward special are also pretty much useless. Five seconds of going at the speed of Mario's dash at a minimum pretty much means suicide on any stage except Elden Bridge.
Bald Bull:Another heaviweight from MasterWarlord! I was convinced that originality was impossible for Punch Out boxers, but you've certainly changed my mind. Bald Bull is an excellent set which manages to be unique without getting out of character (A hard task for a character who is supposed to be simplistic). I think Bald Bull may rival Sloth for your best set MYM6 set.
Bald Bull is bursting with creativity. I haven't played Punch Out at all ever, but it seems like you've taken everything Bald Bull's done before, which is great (not Pokemon syndrome since the vast majority of the moves are original), and all of the moves do so much for Bald Bull as a character: they fit him as a character, they are very original without being ridiculous like traps or something (How can Bald Bull use traps at all?), they add to his playstyle (which is great, an excellent spin on the traditional heaviweight). Hell, they even sound like attacks Bald Bull would use as a boxer in Punch Out!
Still, I have a concern. It's a minor one but it's still noticable. With Bald Bull you seem to be trying to minimize the work you have to do. Of course everybody does this in every moveset and it's somewhat forgivable because of how difficult it is to make a set for a Punch Out character, but it gets a little obvious at points.
What I mean by this is that you're reusing move names and attacks a bit too much. For example, many of the move names are reused. Bull Charge is a move title that you've used multiple times already as K.Rool and Illidan's Dash Attack. Low Blow is from (MYM5) Envy. Bucking Bronco was Illidan's Rising Attack... Of course, the move titles can be somewhat irritating but they're nowhere near as important as the moves behind them. Standard Attack is a direct clone of DK's Neutral Special. Dash Attack is another keep-dashing move. Low Blow works very similar to how it did with Envy... see what I mean? You put different spins on most of them, but it's certainly something I can do without.
Also, Bald Bull has far more recovery than you give him credit for. His Up Special covers a decent distance and gimpability =/= automatically bad recovery, as you mentioned in your Hades review. His Side Special is also a very viable horizontal recovery move. You say in the stats that you shouldn't waste a KO move but there's no shortage of those.
Are all of these a big deal? No! They're mainly just nitpicks. Bald Bull truly is the quintessential Warlord set, with perfect detail, great readability and awesome playstyle. This was a great read, and one of my favorite sets in the contest.
EDIT: Harsh, Ocon... You're pretty much assuming that everything has lag on it when it doesn't. If I don't mention lag, it means that it's not a significant factor, and that the move has average lag for Sukapon. Did you care to recognize his good attack speed stat in the statistics?
[EDIT: Harsh, Ocon... You're pretty much assuming that everything has lag on it when it doesn't. If I don't mention lag, it means that it's not a significant factor, and that the move has average lag for Sukapon. Did you care to recognize his good attack speed stat in the statistics?
The whole thing about me assuming that moves had two second lag was a joke. Much like your moveset. I fail to see how something such as that could even pull off combo character, much less a good attack speed stat.
Bald Bull: Makes me want to make a completely different moveset for Bear Hugger in Make Your Move 7. But before I say anything else, I think the pictures for the forward smash seem kinda piled up when it could just use two.
Rage mechanic was nicely added and put into a good amount of the attacks, and really did match Bald Bull personality. I should know, it took me about twenty tries to beat him in title defense. His forward Ariel was a surprise because I thought that move would have been used as a special then an air attack.
It was very creative seeing it was from Punch Out, but the standard A looks very uncreative, and some what lazy. Seeing it as a clone of DK's neutral special was disappointing.
The recovery is a lot better then you make it out to be, but it still isn't that great.
The main problem I had with this moveset is that you are having a boxer grabbing his opponent. But then again I really don't see a way Bald Bull can have a grab like well grab.
All just small things but still a fun set to read.
The whole thing about me assuming that moves had two second lag was a joke. Much like your moveset. I fail to see how something such as that could even pull off combo character, much less a good attack speed stat.
If it was a joke, why do you think it's invalid for him to have a good speed stat!?
And as for combos, Neutral Attack, Dash Attack, Side Tilt, Side Smash, Down Smash, Forward Aerial, Backward Aerial, Forward Throw, Up Throw and Rising Attack. Good day sir.
Bald Bull:Another heaviweight from MasterWarlord! After reading King Hippo in MYM5 and seeing MT's Little Mac moveset, I was convinced that originality was impossible for Punch Out boxers
Bald Bull. Upon checking the special, I noticed a typing error in the D-Specials that said "The first thing you'll notice about this attack is that despite the lag, it's very spammable despite the lag.", I think using despite the lag twice was a typo, I assume? Up Smash needs to say "The ending lag isn't pretty if whiffed" not "there's". The typo is nothing really. Just poking at the spelling errors here and there. I though there was one in the F-Smash but it's ok.
Though it is true that this set is creative and original for a guy who just does punching.
If it was a joke, why do you think it's invalid for him to have a good speed stat!?
And as for combos, Neutral Attack, Dash Attack, Side Tilt, Side Smash, Down Smash, Forward Aerial, Backward Aerial, Forward Throw, Up Throw and Rising Attack. Good day sir.
Your side smash can't combo due to high lag (yes, believe it or not, high lag actually means high lag). Your side tilt is incredibly slow and predictable (who would get hit by that?), your forward air merely switched your position with opponents, and I fail to see how it can combo into anything. Your forward throw is quite frankly a confusing attack (needs to be better explained), and your up throw is pretty much beat out by up specials (little known fact: Most up specials have great priority that could very easily beat out your aerials). Your rising attack can go into what, your neutral attack? Your neutral attack doesn't even combo into stuff - stuff combos into it.
You didn't make a combo character. You made something with a few moves that can chain together and called it a combo character.
Bald Bull: The moveset was great, as you can read from the other comments. Rage with the Side Special was fairly interesting. I won't be commenting on that, as I have something else, something subtle, to talk about.
Really, it's like you're calling out, "Hey, look everyone! I'm not unoriginal. That means I thought about this a lot." A simple joke or not, it just insinuates how you're better than others. Well, you probably are, but...you know? Just grinds my gears. The actual description of the matchup is fine.
Vs. King Dedede: 0/100, Down Throw’s favor
You knew it was coming. Bull can not only be chain grabbed, but infinited. Not just a tiny step “infinite” like Bowser or one with a catch like those of Samus, Mario, and Luigi, but a full fledged infinite like DK’s. Counterpick against Dedede if you have half a brain.
Now this, I really have a problem with. Why would you just give away a matchup? I don't believe this contest was made to have stupid things Brawl already has. No, it's for the fun in it. Just having an infinite...why even include it? Is this the only thing you could think of? It says nothing of Bald Bull. In my opinion (if it matters...probably not,) this is just a waste of typing. Delve deeper. Think of something creative.
Note: I didn't read through the whole moveset...as usual. I just post when I feel something small must be said.
Hobs, he included that about MetaKnight because HE always makes sets that counter him, not because of others. It was getting kind of redundant....I'm glad he changed it.
Also, WHY not include an infinite? People would have been gasping and "OMG I C A INFNT" even if he hadn't included that. Hell, I was gonna point it out until I saw that comment.
Essentially, these comments go against MW's tendencies, he isn't saying he's better than everyone. If anything he's pointing out his former lack of originality in the matchups.
Really, it's like you're calling out, "Hey, look everyone! I'm not unoriginal. That means I thought about this a lot." A simple joke or not, it just insinuates how you're better than others. Well, you probably are, but...you know? Just grinds my gears. The actual description of the matchup is fine.
He put that in there because I called him out on it the last time he had a good match-up against MK and it's becoming a cliche to have characters balance out the tiers.
Now this, I really have a problem with. Why would you just give away a matchup? I don't believe this contest was made to have stupid things Brawl already has. No, it's for the fun in it. Just having an infinite...why even include it? Is this the only thing you could think of? It says nothing of Bald Bull. In my opinion (if it matters...probably not,) this is just a waste of typing. Delve deeper. Think of something creative.
If a character is susceptible to a move and gets owned by it, it makes sense to include it. Dedede has good match-ups against characters because of his chain grab- so what?
I ever tell you guys about the time I escaped from that Turkish prison? Well, I was on vacation - in Saudi Arabia, as it happens - and I was having a lovely time. I'd definitely recommend it, my hosts were all very pleasant; they were always singing and yodelling and KI-YIing, and there were fireworks all the time. One day, though, I woke up in the middle of the desert for some reason, and I couldn't find my new friends anywhere, although I could have sworn that they'd been there with me when I went to sleep. Anyway, I was standing in a kind of crater, so I started walking in the desert, looking for them. I found this one hermit, actually, but he wouldn't let me into his oasis home. So instead I stole his car, except I didn't really, because the next morning I woke up in a pile of sand instead with the Turks standing over me. They all looked so jolly with their big beards and their shiny pretend knives and their sharp teeth! I tried to explain to them that I had to find my Arabian friends, and wouldn't you believe it, they were nice enough to take me to my hotel! Except it was kind of different, all dank and dark, and didn't really seem like my hotel at all. Still, they were very nice to me; they'd always make funny noises and strut around like turkeys and usually they'd laugh with me, although I never really knew what we were supposed to be laughing about. So one day this one prisoner got in some trouble, and as they were taking him away; to a different hotel, I guess - he told me I was actually in a Turkish prison! Now, I was indignant. I had to see for myself, so I politely told them that I was going to look around the city a bit. Well, they laughed again, and I laughed with them, and out I went, only this big fellow started waving a big ol' knife in the air and I just said "Hey man, sup" and he said "BENDEN öNCE, CAHIL GüNDELIKçI YAY", so I could see that he was having some sort of birthday party and just tried to keep going. Then somebody hit me from behind just as I was wishing the big guy a happy birthday, which I think was kind of rude. So I went back to my hotel - they took me back, actually - and rested a bit more, and I would have been there for a while longer, but George Clooney helped me out. But that's a story for another day.
So for real now, as was always my intention (and I can't believe you reported me). I've got to say, the main thing I dislike about Bald Bull is that he isn't really... a boxer. He's more like a wrestler in much of his style. I can't really enjoy the Rage mechanic too much, either, since, you know, it's the kind of damage-for-power concept that's been used so many times before. And the very last thing I dislike about him is that he's so utterly reliant on his Punch Out Wii cutscenes. But you know my stance on that already, of course.
The thing I DO like about Bald Bull, of course, is that he's not a trap character or a prop character and he has no real mechanic, and yet he still manages to have a ton of interesting, unique attacks. He couldn't fit into Brawl, and there are a few attacks that feel somewhat feeble, like they have added effects for their own sake (Uair is the most egregious example of this), but for the most part, creativity is high and business is booming.
Now if only you'd make a Punch Out moveset that WASN'T based around grabs...
Seriously, I never would have thought to see a boxer have so many creative ideas. Stuff like the leaning Fair/Bair, squashing the enemy with the Uair, the rage mechanic, The FSmash...heck, it seems like the most creative moves were the ones based on things he actually did in Punchout. I would have never thought to actually make his whiring arms be something besides a startup animation. It all comes together into a really nice playstle that is VERY fitting to Bald Bull.
So kudos to you Warlord. Another epic moveset that shows that even a simple boxer can be given a moveset that shines with creativity and innovation. *salutes*
Aaaaannnnnd I see Rool forgot to take his meds this morning.
When the Hero of Time returned to Hyrule from Termina, he realized the immense power held within the Ocarina of Time. Once he realized this, he began to abuse its power using it for things that it was never meant to be used for.
The Goddesses, upset with his behavior, decided to punish him. They sent him to a time far into the future where Hyrule has been devastated by an industrial collapse. The Hero of Time sees this strange, new Hyrule as a result of his inability to save it.
The Hero of Time learns of a new hero named Link living in Hyrule. Deciding that this new Link could never learn who he was, the Hero of Time donned a mask and took on a new name. Henceforth, he was known as The Errant. As The Errant, he searches for a way to return to the past and save Hyrule from this dark fate.
The Errant is a product of Project Zelda, and was created by Spire III.
The Errant’s attacks are reminiscent of Brawl’s Link, yet the Errant is a notably different character.
Statistics
Walking: 8/10
The Errant walks almost as fast as Mario can run.
Running: 4/10
His run, on the other hand, is not much faster; the run does not even match up to Mario’s.
Weight: 5/10
The Errant is slightly lighter than Link, as he only wears his robes rather than any chainmail armor.
Size: 6/10
The Errant is as tall as Link.
Attack Speed: 4/10
The Errant’s attack speed is poor.
Power: 7/10
Similar to Link, what The Errant lacks in speed, he makes up for in power.
Falling Speed: 10/10
The Errant is the fastest faller in the game.
Priority: 6/10
The Errant has average priority.
Recovery: 3/10
The Errant’s recovery is below average, due to the easy ability to be spiked as it happens.
Standard Combo
The Errant slashes his sword diagonally in front of him doing 5%. He follows it up with a horizontal slash in the other direction doing 4%, and follows it up with a stab doing 6% damage. The combo is fast, and the final hit has some knockback, but low priority. Has almost no lag.
Dash Attack
The Errant hops a bit in the air and does a spin hitting twice in front of him, and once behind him. He tilts forward a bit, so the sword hits low in front of him and high behind him. Each hit does 6% damage. A fast attack with medium priority, above medium lag, and little knockback.
Tilts
Forward Tilt:
The Errant raises his sword above his head and slashes it to the ground in front of him. Does 13%. Has slow start up with medium lag. High priority.
Up tilt:
The Errant does a back flip (without actually moving backwards) and kicks above him. It’s a fast move that does about 8% with low lag and medium priority.
Down tilt:
The Errant slashes his sword low in front of him, reaching out far. Does about 14%. Starts slow, with medium speed and huge lag. Has high priority, and great upward knockback. Can spike.
Grabs/Throws
Grab:
The Errant grabs his opponent with his left hand and holds them up, off the ground.
Grab Attack:
The Errant elbows the opponent in the face with his sword arm. Pretty slow, but effective with 4% damage.
Up throw:
The Errant throws the enemy into the air above him and slashes at them with his sword. 8%. Forward throw:
The Errant kicks the foe SPARTA style, and they fly off. High knockback, 8%.
Back throw:
The Errant tosses the opponent behind him and without looking thrusts his sword backward and hits the opponent with the hilt. Medium/High knockback. Does 8%.
Down throw:
The Errant throws his enemy into the ground and thrusts his sword into their chest. Does 8%. No knockback (akin to Snake’s down throw).
Aerials
Neutral:
The Errant swings his sword in front of him, and it continues moving until the blade is behind him, where it stays for about a second. Terrible priority. Does 10% with the initial strike, and 6% if the opponent is hit by the stationary blade behind The Errant. Has okay knockback.
Up:
The Errant tosses his sword into the air and it spins briefly, and then he catches it. A fast attack with high priority, but some medium lag. Starts up a bit slow. Does between 9% and 12% depending on how it hits the enemy. Virtually no knockback.
Forward:
The Errant swings his sword in front of him twice. The first strike starts above him and goes at a downward angle, while the second strike goes in the opposite direction. The first strike does 9%, starts quick, and does low knockback. The second strike is slow, does 14%, and high knockback. A good killing move, but has medium lag.
Back:
The Errant spins around clockwise and does a kick with his right leg, followed by another kick with his left leg, then finishes off with a sword strike. The first two strikes are fast, but the third one comes slower. First strike does 4% damage and almost no knockback, second strike does 5% and low knockback, then the third strike does 6% damage. If the third strike hits alone, it has medium knockback. If all three strikes hit together (which rarely happens at high percentages), it has high knockback. The attack has low lag.
Down:
The Errant throws his sword directly downwards, and it hits the ground. He then dives down after it and pulls it out. (Think Link’s dair, but instead of holding the sword while falling, he throws the sword first). The sword itself is a spike (and if the enemy is standing on the ground, they fall over), and does about 18%. If the Errant himself hits an opponent while diving after it, he does 8% damage. This attack his slow and has a huge amount of lag, but high priority. The Errant has super armor during this attack, and the Errant cannot be controlled while diving, so if the sword goes off the stage instead of hitting the ground, you die. Use the attack wisely.
Smashes
Forward:
Like Link’s forward smash, The Errant’s forward smash has two parts to it. For the first part, The Errant simply slams his sword downward into the ground with great force. Does 14% charged (21% charged), and is quick, with medium lag. Very high priority. Medium knockback angled downward. For the second part (activated the same way as the second part of Link’s forward smash), The Errant grabs onto the sword, using it as an anchor, and swings around on it once, legs in the air. It hits both in front of him, and behind him, has high priority, and medium lag. Does 17% uncharged and 18% charged. High knockback. Very good kill move.
Up:
A simple attack, The Errant simply stabs his sword upward. Does about 14% uncharged, and 18% charged. Quick attack with low lag. Medium knockback.
Down:
The classic spin attack from the Zelda games. Does about 9% uncharged, 19% charged. Slow with a bit of lag, but high knockback and very high priority.
Specials
Neutral: Tech Sword
The Errant swings his sword, and a laser beam comes from the sword. It travels straight forward at a high speed. The sword swing is quick and with low lag. The sword swing does about 5% damage and almost no knockback. The laser itself does no knockback, and does 7% damage. When The Errant is at 0% damage, the laser can go through opponents. Otherwise, it stops when it hits someone.
The Errant takes out a Cucco Bomb and lays it on the ground. It then walks forward until it comes in contact with an opponent. If there is a wall or other obstruction at a 90 degree angle or less, the Cucco Bomb will travel up the wall. The Cucco Bomb will not stop until it hits something or goes offstage. It moves about the speed of The Errant walking and does 13% damage with low knockback. The Cucco Bomb has abnormal priority; every attack will stop it, but it will explode upon the attack.
This move is akin to Mewtwo’s up special from Melee. When used, The Errant pulls out the Nanoteleporter and disappears from the spot he’s in with a flash of light. He then reappears in a different spot (up by default, but can be decided with the control stick. I imagine the range of Fox’s up special). Has some slight start-up lag, and very little ending lag. This attack does not do damage.
The Ear of Sheikah is an ancient Sheikah artifact from many years ago; before even the plot of Ocarina of Time occurred. When equipped, it allows the wearer to see beyond their normal peripheral vision. In Brawl, the Ear of Sheikah acts as a counter-esque move. It has some very slight start up lag as The Errant pulls out the artifact. If The Errant is then hit from behind in the small amount of time in which the ‘counter’ takes place, then he back flips over the enemy and lands, immediately taking his opponent into a grab. If he is hit from the front, The Errant jumps in the air, over the attack, and grabs the opponent immediately as he lands. If The Errant is not hit, he takes a moment to look behind him, confused, and then returns the Ear of Sheikah to his pocket, giving the move some high lag if it doesn’t work.
Final Smash: Song of Storms
The Errant pulls out the Ocarina of Time and begins to play the Song of Storms. As the song plays, it begins to rain, and opponents trip much more often. As the song plays, strikes of lightning hit the stage in random spots, doing about 30% damage and high knockback (on average, about 7 strike the stage each time the Final Smash is used, and it’s actually rather rare for them to actually hit someone). At the end of the attack, one great, large lightning bolt comes down and strikes The Errant. It does no damage to him, but does damage to any enemy around him (imagine the range of Zero Suit Samus’ Final Smash), doing 50% damage. It does higher knockback closer to The Errant. If you’re on the very edge of the range, it does medium knockback. If you’re right next to The Errant, it’s almost always an instant kill. The attack lasts the latter half of the melody (0:18 to 0:25 in this video.
Extra Goodies
Standing Animation:
The Errant stands holding his sword with his left hand with his other hand at his side.
Entrance:
The Errant arrives through a warp similar to the warp songs used in Ocarina of Time.
Up Taunt:
The Errant points his sword in front of him, as though to say “You are next.”
Side Taunt:
The Errant takes out the Ocarina of Time, tosses it into the air, and catches it. He then puts it away.
Down Taunt:
The Errant does a vertical swipe downwards and his sword slams into the ground. It takes him a bit of effort to pull it out.
Victory Pose 1:
The Errant does the sword spin and then holds his sword into the air.
Victory Pose 2:
The Errant takes out the Ocarina of Time and plays the Song of Time.
Victory Pose 3:
The Errant takes out the Ocarina of Time and starts to toss it up and down.
Codec Conversation
Otacon: Hey Snake, have you ever heard the Chinese Proverb “If you mess with the forces of nature, you’ll just end up stuck in the future”?
Snake: Otacon, I’m pretty sure that’s not a Chinese Proverb.
Otacon: What? I thought this cheat sheet from Mei Ling would work…Anyway, the point is, The Errant is from the past. He may use technology to his advantage, but he still doesn’t fully understand it. You on the other hand know your weapons well.
Snake: So what you’re saying is that I should use my weapons with skill, and then I’ll have an advantage over him.
Otacon: That’s right. When you come from the past, you usually aren’t going to have as many tricks up your sleeve.
Snake: I guess it’s true when they say “A frog in a well knows not of the great ocean.”
Otacon: Snake! I told you I don’t like that one!
Kirby Hat
Kirby wears The Errant’s mask.
Victory Theme
The standard Zelda victory theme changed to a minor key.
Symbol
I'm not very proud of this moveset. The Errant was removed from Project Zelda, and thus I lost motivation to finish the moveset. Recently, I decided to finally think up a Down Special to use, and finished it up. It's not very polished, so I don't expect very much from this one.
I was heavily anticipating this moveset, so I had to comment. Unfortunately.... My reaction isn't as good as I'd like it to be.
First off, the order in which everything is described seems sort of random. You put the Neutral Combo and Dash Attack in their own sections, listed Throws before Aerials, Smashes, and Specials (which are more prominent features of the set), and you didn't name any of the attacks except the Specials and FS (generally, all the attacks are named).
A lot of the moves are rather generic and underdetailed. The Final Smash just seems a tad random.
As far as the actual playstyle of the moveset, I have no major qualms. I'm a n00b with competitive Smash, of course, but whatever.
The concept of some sort of future Link is so often used that it's becoming a bit cliched. The organization is bizarre and the attacks are very simple. On the up hand, I liked the Down Special, and this guy would be right at home in Brawl.
What is so wrong with the order in which I put the moves.
I wasn't expecting this set to do very good since I abandoned it earlier and only threw together the rest of it, but since when does everything have to be in a certain order, and since when does every single attack have to have a name?
<.< I leave for a week and MYM goes to heck...
We also have some movesets for me to leave half finished commentry on.
Thief: As C.Cannoli K.Rool says, there's only one way to make a moveset based on thievery, but you pulled off a thief with a surprisingly deep twist. Since I make nothing but movesets with rediculous special mechanics, I liked how pervasive the contract making was in the moveset.
But.. and this is going to sound contradictory...
I found that you leaned too much on the contracts themselves, and rather than trying to capture the Thief's ruthlessly self-serving character you just picked a trademark theme and ran with it for as long as you could.
You've already gotten a slap on the wrists for including Sakurai in the Down-Special, but the move itself is also painfully ill-defined. So you summon, Sakurai... does that mean you can move around while he's signing? Can Sakurai be interrupted? Is there a point in having a Special that's so situational, that it'll only see sporadic use on the largest stages?
But I found the dash attack to be super-awesome-special. It's simple ideas like that which make the best attacks.
Metagross: I feel rather bad for commenting on this before V-13, but Metagross has been waiting for a comment from me for much much longer. I can still see much of the "rushed" Metagross in there, which is a big dissapointment. I was hoping that you'd properly bring it up to scratch before re-posting it.
Metagross is still weak as a poke-set, the moves don't feel all that Metagross-like, and the playstyle is even less so. There're still some clever attacks in here, especially in the aerials, but in general, your style of moveset making doesn't lend itself too well to poke-sets.
Now then, a throw this powerful and long ranged shouldn't be abused. It can be used only once per stock.
I think everyone knows by now just how much I hate "limited uses per stock" attacks, but... I REALLY hate "limited uses per stock" attacks"
Also, Question? What is the difference between "getting killed 15% earlier" and simply taking 15% more damage? Seriously, I can't figure out the difference, it just sounds like a round about way of achieving the same thing.
The same question partially applies to Iron Defense too. "surviving 20% longer than usual" is again much the same as healing 20% (although you can't do the latter at 0%)
Raven: I hope the others will forgive me for being baised towards this, but I absolutely adore telekinetic powers. In fact, I like them so much, that I actually enjoyed Sonic The Hedgehog (2006) (and anyone who enjoys that game has to be some sort of crazy).
So yeah, I'd love to play around with telekinesis in brawl, and Raven's is just about the most fleshed out version of telekinesis I've seen in MYM.
But, I wish there was an option to just drop something you're holding without throwing it. Or maybe a way to use/shoot an item while using telekinesis on it. If you picked up a crate, could someone still stand on it? If someone attacked an Unira you were holding in midair, would its spines jut out?
Anyway, it's nice to see that the regular attacks are in keeping with the theme, but not overly elaborate. This does make some of the moves boring to read, but if I complained about that, I'd be quite the hypocrite.
But I dislike tilts being used to summon things (this is probably the main reason I rarely comment on Bkupa's sets after I read them). Of all the places to put a minion/trap summoning move, I consider tilts to be the least suitable, as it's totally counter intuitive for amateurs (I know plenty of people who don't tap the stick at all, and just use tilts instead of smashes and walk instead of dash)
SukaponBald Bull: It always surprises me to see how quickly you improve, and considering how dang good you were before..
It really looks like you perfectly captured the essence of Bald Bull here. As a bull, he obviously has a few "charge foreward" moves, one of which is powered by rage and frustration, but also like a bull the opponent will dance around any of his attempts at approaching. You also manage to pin down bald bull's boxing style, and boxing in general (yes, boxing is pretty much all about being a iron wall of defense and grabbing the opponent whenever possible)
Yet again, I can't find anything specific to complain about, and Bald Bull is frighteningly close to being your best set ever.
But you probably shouldn't have listened to K.Rool, as those comparisons get pretty annoying when they appear every two sentences (with lag at either end that is unlike Clefable's)
Sorry Sukapon and V-13, no commentry for you yet...
Something I can work on as Rool and MW mentioned it as well. Yeah, the fair was one of my favorite moves, and I found the usmash funny for some reason. Yay for fairs...?
