[MAJOR] Australian Cyber League (ACL): Melbourne April 9th-10th

[Nova]

EDIT: Seriously is everyone in that state just some ******** 12 year old kid who is trash at every game ever and needs a kick in the teeth?

Lol, it's just Grim & Ghost that are the opinionated/argue all the time 14/15 year olds.
But I agree, everyone here should be kicked in the mouth.
By luke, with no socks on. <3

Also, Grim, don't overstate your maturity.
You: "Wah you only win because you use Marth. I AM better at Melee than you..."
Me: "Remember the last time we had a Marth ditto? 4 stocked? Yes? Ok? Get better?"
That is not mature.
Yes, neither was my response, but I don't claim to be mature, or use it as some attempt of wit.

I already tried to explain that regions create stage lists that are competitively popular (PS2 may be competitive, but it's not popular everywhere) so areas need stages that people want to play on, rather than an exclusive minority of theory-crafters; SA (and NSW I think) currently have PS2 legal, although I doubt I'll keep it that way for Reloaded because I'm far more interested in interstate attendance than all else.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Grim you can't hide your stupidity behind your age. It's so hypocritical of you to want to be able to argue as an equal member of this community and then call people immature for arguing with someone younger than them.

Huh? I wasn't calling you immature for arguing with me, I was calling you immature because you said this: "Love how you think you being ******** means you have the right to speak without being told you're ********."

and this: "lol. You're a ****ing idiot."

and this: "Seriously is everyone in that state just some ******** 12 year old kid who is trash at every game ever and needs a kick in the teeth?"

As far as I'm concerned, you're a member of the community, and if anyone else spoke to me as disrespectfully as you did, I'd tell them the same thing.

I spoke to you disrespectfully? You mean where I said that I love it how you think that because you're good at the game, that automatically means that you are good at designing rule-sets?

That set you off on this pointless rant? o_O

You need to have your head kicked in because you have no idea what you're talking about and you have no right to come in claiming that your opinions are correct. You have achieved NOTHING in either game. You come from a state where the competitive scene is viewed as a joke outside of a couple of players who hate you anyway, so you should stfu and have some ****ing respect.

I'm not claiming to have achieved anything in either game, where do people always get this idea that I'm some full-of-myself brat that thinks he is better than the top Australian players? I was just arguing my opinion over a stage list, why do you have any more right to do that than I do?

Also, Grim, don't overstate your maturity.
You: "Wah you only win because you use Marth. I AM better at Melee than you..."
Me: "Remember the last time we had a Marth ditto? 4 stocked? Yes? Ok? Get better?"
That is not mature.
Yes, neither was my response, but I don't claim to be mature, or use it as some attempt of wit.

I never once claimed to be mature, overstate my maturity or use it as an attempt of wit.

I already tried to explain that regions create stage lists that are competitively popular (PS2 may be competitive, but it's not popular everywhere) so areas need stages that people want to play on, rather than an exclusive minority of theory-crafters; SA (and NSW I think) currently have PS2 legal, although I doubt I'll keep it that way for Reloaded because I'm far more interested in interstate attendance than all else.

Like I said, I have the right to express my opinion on why a stage should be legal as much as anyone else in this thread.

 

[tedeth]

Yeah I wonder where people get the idea that you're some full-of-yourself brat. It's amazing how an entire community can come to that conclusion and you are the only one who is correct about it.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

It wasn't a rhetorical question, Ted.

 

[Attila_]

I didn't read the last 2 pages but:

PS2 should be banned. It has certain effects that get in the way of gameplay and force characters into positoons that cannot be overcome by simply being better at the game.

Picto is borderline. I think alot of its transformations are bearable. Alot of the time they just means a crazy punish or something for making a mistake.

Actually yeah that's the difference. Picto is less likely to punish you for doing something right where as PS2 can be like "oop you did something right now you're screwed."

Frigate is fine. Anyone wha has even a basic level of stage knowledge there won't get killed by the flip very often at all and the two stages by themselves are fine. Just fine.

this basically explains what i wanted to say.

although i will say that most people don't mind the flip on frigate, but rather the fact that it is missing a ledge, hindering most characters recovery. which even then isnt a major issue, imo.

 

[tedeth]

It wasn't a rhetorical question, Ted.

Oh ok. Well then, people get the idea that you're some full-of yourself brat becase you act in every way like you are some full-of-yourself brat.

Better?

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Elaboration would be great, but it's a start.

 

[tedeth]

Ok. Well here's an example. I made a post making a point.

You made a post attacking my credability at deciding what makes a good competitive stage.

There was then a series of posts over which everyone can agree that you were utterly and completely logically decimated, and yet you continue to post as if you're still in this argument.

GG.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

At what exact point was it in that series of events that I acted egotistical?

 

[Nova]

That's not a great way of showing you're more mature than two youngsters from badelaide.

I never once claimed to be mature, overstate my maturity or use it as an attempt of wit.

I said attempt, I didn't say it was a good attempt.
You used the word maturity in a way which, whether you like it or not, directly references your own, as an attempt of wit.

Grim, you said yourself that you don't understand why people think you're a brat or whatever.
If you can't figure out how so many people come to that conclusion, then people should feel entitled to insult you because it borders on ignorance.
You post in a way that promotes aggressive style arguing which almost always downgrades into lugubrious e-penis sizes, while it doesn't bother me too much, don't complain and hide behind things like "it's just my opinion" when people respond in exactly that manner.
If you want people to respond to your posts without flaming you, learn to word them in a way that doesn't irritate people into thinking you are a "brat".
...Or just get used to the insults. *Shrugs*

Annnnyway, if you want to talk about stages, wobbling, or whatever, I already told you to just make a topic in the outhouse.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I said attempt, I didn't say it was a good attempt.
You used the word maturity in a way which, whether you like it or not, directly references your own, as an attempt of wit.

You can read into that sentence as much as you want. It was supposed to mean exactly what it said. Acting in an immature way isn't a good way of showing that you are more mature than someone else, that's all.

You post in a way that promotes aggressive style arguing which almost always downgrades into lugubrious e-penis sizes, while it doesn't bother me too much, don't complain and hide behind things like "it's just my opinion" when people respond in exactly that manner.
If you want people to respond to your posts without flaming you, learn to word them in a way that doesn't irritate people into thinking you are a "brat".
...Or just get used to the insults. *Shrugs*

I'll take that advice.

Annnnyway, if you want to talk about stages, wobbling, or whatever, I already told you to just make a topic in the outhouse.

I intend to.

 

[tedeth]

You're done Grim. Call it quits son. It's not funny anymore dude.

Take a nap, regroup and then come back with something other than "Show me where i said X" where X is something stupid that's you've said.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I'm not going to continue arguing with you about how mature I am, that's just dumb and pointless.

 

[Ghostbone]

Grim try not to insult people it doesn't help to get them to agree with you.

And Tedeth you haven't actually argued against Grim's arguments you've basically just gone. "You suck, you're ********, you're wrong."
Perhaps not flaming would help get your point across?

Also I will not MM you $1000 that would be ********, but if you come over for reloaded I'll MM you for 5-10 or something, but that in no way will have any affect on whether PS2 should be legal.

It's just there's plenty of evidence that PS2 is a fine stage. (US has it legal, most of Europe has it legal as well iirc)
And no actual evidence that it's broken and should be banned.

Edit: Grim make a thread for this so this thread isn't clogged up....

 

[tedeth]

Actually alot of my arguing later on was pointing out terrible flaws in everything Grim was saying.... so.... no? lol.

And yeah they have RC legal aswell don't make it a good stage.

 

[Ghostbone]

Actually alot of my arguing later on was pointing out terrible flaws in everything Grim was saying.... so.... no? lol.

Uhh...no you weren't, you were just calling him immature and bad at the game.....

And yeah they have RC legal aswell don't make it a good stage.

Yea it kinda does.

 

[tedeth]

Uhh...no you weren't, you were just calling him immature and bad at the game.....

Yea it kinda does.

Ha... ha ha.... HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!!!!

You... are so stupid....

If you're not even going to read my posts I'm not going to read yours.

In closing. You are super ignorant and both of you need to learn to actually play the game before judging what should and shouldn't be legal.

Here I am thinking DJ Downy is the worst thing to come out of Adelaide and I get you guys. How hilarious.

 

[Ghostbone]

Ha... ha ha.... HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!!!!

You... are so stupid....

If you're not even going to read my posts I'm not going to read yours.

Enlighten me then....I did read your posts and got nothing constructive out of them.

In closing. You are super ignorant and both of you need to learn to actually play the game before judging what should and shouldn't be legal.

It's funny because the US has it legal and are better than us so obviously we should all just learn to play the game right?

Here I am thinking DJ Downy is the worst thing to come out of Adelaide and I get you guys. How hilarious.

And now you're making personal attacks? Really helps your credibility right?

 

[Grim Tuesday]

First, your argument:

I didn't read the last 2 pages but:

PS2 should be banned. It has certain effects that get in the way of gameplay and force characters into positoons that cannot be overcome by simply being better at the game.

Picto is borderline. I think alot of its transformations are bearable. Alot of the time they just means a crazy punish or something for making a mistake.

Actually yeah that's the difference. Picto is less likely to punish you for doing something right where as PS2 can be like "oop you did something right now you're screwed."

Frigate is fine. Anyone wha has even a basic level of stage knowledge there won't get killed by the flip very often at all and the two stages by themselves are fine. Just fine.

Then Ghostbone countered...

And then... well...:

lol. You're a ****ing idiot.

MM ghostbone $1000. Clearly I am wrong about everything so I must be terrible at the game.

You know you want to. You can totally do it for the glory of Badelaide.

EDIT: Seriously is everyone in that state just some ******** 12 year old kid who is trash at every game ever and needs a kick in the teeth?

How do you put up with this **** Nova?

Love how you think you being ******** means you have the right to speak without being told you're ********.

Grim you can't hide your stupidity behind your age. It's so hypocritical of you to want to be able to argue as an equal member of this community and then call people immature for arguing with someone younger than them.

As far as I'm concerned, you're a member of the community, and if anyone else spoke to me as disrespectfully as you did, I'd tell them the same thing.

You need to have your head kicked in because you have no idea what you're talking about and you have no right to come in claiming that your opinions are correct. You have achieved NOTHING in either game. You come from a state where the competitive scene is viewed as a joke outside of a couple of players who hate you anyway, so you should stfu and have some ****ing respect.

Yeah I wonder where people get the idea that you're some full-of-yourself brat. It's amazing how an entire community can come to that conclusion and you are the only one who is correct about it.

Oh ok. Well then, people get the idea that you're some full-of yourself brat becase you act in every way like you are some full-of-yourself brat.

Better?

Ok. Well here's an example. I made a post making a point.

You made a post attacking my credability at deciding what makes a good competitive stage.

There was then a series of posts over which everyone can agree that you were utterly and completely logically decimated, and yet you continue to post as if you're still in this argument.

GG.

You're done Grim. Call it quits son. It's not funny anymore dude.

Take a nap, regroup and then come back with something other than "Show me where i said X" where X is something stupid that's you've said.

Just sayin'

 

[zApollo]

You come from a state where the competitive scene is viewed as a joke outside of a couple of players who hate you anyway, so you should stfu and have some ****ing respect.

Sorry but those sorts of statements about SA are kinda outdated, come over at Reloaded and you'll see

 

[Splice]

Browny is awesome :C

 

[Leisha]

I met Dj in sydney last time i was up there.

Hes nice =)



But other than that, I think everyone needs to calm down now... lol

 

[Nova]

Dan is just shy.
I have such a weird relationship with that guy...

 

[Splice]

To perhaps bring us away from Ted vs Grim entertainment...

I think Pictochat and PS2 and Brinstar should all definitely be banned.
I'm undecided on Frigate, I sure hope Castle Siege is legal though.

 

[TakFR]

I read part of this and it just seemed to be

Grim says something which is completely opposed by everyone (except some Badalaide people sucking his ****)

Ted posts logical reason why

Ghost says get better

Ted says MM me *****, you bad

Grim and Ghost have a cry about personal attacks even though Ghost just made one himself

then it's just cry cry cry immature post cry cry cry

 

[Leisha]

Yessss, dieeee brinstarr

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Not quite, TakFR.

I say something which is opposed by everyone (except one Adelaide person who agrees with him)

Ted posts his opinion on the matter

Ghost posts his opinion on the matter

Ted says MM me *****, you bad *raging*

I get in a pointless flame-war with Ted

Ghost tells us both off and gets the topic back on track

Then it's just Tedeth failing to prove Ghost wrong

 

[Splice]

Thanks for that Tak.

And obviously Grim has to reply in return.

ffs people, you aren't even having a progressive conversation, you're just attempting to clarify whats already been said. It lacks content.

 

[Ghostbone]

I read part of this and it just seemed to be

Grim says something which is completely opposed by everyone (except some Badalaide people sucking his ****)

Ted posts logical reason why

Please show me where exactly...?

Ghost says get better

No I don't....?

Ted says MM me *****, you bad

Because that has to do with whether a stage should be legal right?

Grim and Ghost have a cry about personal attacks even though Ghost just made one himself

lol, cause I totally didn't do it to show how Tedeth was making irrelevant points at all...

then it's just cry cry cry immature post cry cry cry

...
just lol.
Can you people please stop flaming so we can have a legitimate discussion?

To perhaps bring us away from Ted vs Grim entertainment...

I think Pictochat and PS2 and Brinstar should all definitely be banned.
I'm undecided on Frigate, I sure hope Castle Siege is legal though.

Agree with Picto, can see why you'd think that about Brinstar. (though I disagree)

But come on people PS2 should be legal...

1. The neutral part doesn't favor any character significantly.

2. The ground part isn't anywhere near as bad as the transformations on PS1, I rarely see it stalled out....(you can't wall-infinite on it either iirc)

3. The Ice part actually gives you more offensive options, and gives you many more mix-ups if you take the time to learn to play on it. (which we should expect competitive players to do)

4. The electric part sounds a lot worse in theory than reality, but if necessary it can be stalled out, like the transformations on PS1...

5. The air part isn't that bad really, it just limits characters options a lot. (unless you're a character that can reach the ground quickly) Plus you can just stall it out.

Honestly timeouts aren't worse here than say, Smashville or PS1, so that's not an issue either.

 

[Splice]

I was previously of the opinion that PS2 should be legal.
But I realised that, possibly the biggest hazard a stage can have...

Bigger than stupid bombs that do 50% or Lava-hazards...
Is the hazard of losing momentum and rhythm. On PS2 too many of the stages completely skew the rhythm.
I would not consider the rock formation to do that, but the wind, electric and ice part can throw off match momentum and that makes such a big difference, although its more subtle so most people might not see it as easily.

note that I dont consider PS1 a culprit of this; Grass formation is fine. Rock and Fire can be camped on and slow down the gameplay, but the thing about PS2 is it doesnt make you camp; Electric and Wind force you to either be close to enemy or offstage, or in a bad position (jump on wind stage).
It's got some new gameplay elements, but we aren't lacking depth here.
I don't think this stage benefits the stage list enough to warrant a place on the stage list when it can mess with the players like that.

Brinstar is too small and forces players to get in close
Picto is straight out ******** I never got why it was so tolerated.
Frigates stage set up is annoying. That's right the stage setup/way the platforms are setup - is why i dislike it. idk if bannable.

 

[tedeth]

Tak really hit the nail on the head.

 

[C~Dog]

Picto is so fun.

 

[Silfa]

This thread has turned silly. Pictochat is pretty cool, I like that stage.

I'm interested in coming to this tournament. I'll probably go if others from ACT go or something, idk.

 

[Ghostbone]

I was previously of the opinion that PS2 should be legal.
But I realised that, possibly the biggest hazard a stage can have...

Bigger than stupid bombs that do 50% or Lava-hazards...
Is the hazard of losing momentum and rhythm. On PS2 too many of the stages completely skew the rhythm.
I would not consider the rock formation to do that, but the wind, electric and ice part can throw off match momentum and that makes such a big difference, although its more subtle so most people might not see it as easily.

note that I dont consider PS1 a culprit of this; Grass formation is fine. Rock and Fire can be camped on and slow down the gameplay, but the thing about PS2 is it doesnt make you camp; Electric and Wind force you to either be close to enemy or offstage, or in a bad position (jump on wind stage).
It's got some new gameplay elements, but we aren't lacking depth here.
I don't think this stage benefits the stage list enough to warrant a place on the stage list when it can mess with the players like that.

How does PS2 not make you camp any more than PS1? Two of PS1's transformations (Fire and Rock) force you into horribly bad positions if you want to approach, and also force you to either be close to the enemy or to just stall it out.
Also, PS2 only messes with you if you haven't taken the time to learn to deal with it.
Air admittedly is pretty bad, but Ice isn't a problem at all, it can easily be worked to your advantage, electric can make it hard to approach in the same way the transformations on PS1 make it hard to approach.

Basically it doesn't mess with you that bad once you get used to it, and the transformations have some cool techniques that can only be pulled off on them.

Edit: Also it's not about whether it's good enough to be legal, but bad enough to be banned. Stages are legal by default, and we need reasoning to ban them, not the other way around.

Brinstar is too small and forces players to get in close
Picto is straight out ******** I never got why it was so tolerated.
Frigates stage set up is annoying. That's right the stage setup/way the platforms are setup - is why i dislike it. idk if bannable.

What's wrong with forcing players to get in close in a game which has an extremely strong run-away game?

An annoying stage set up isn't a ban criteria at all, it's a counter-pick criteria, unless it makes a character unbeatable. (see Skyworld and Corneria)

 

[Aussierob123]

do you two have to mutilate every tournament thread?

jesus, just play the game and have fun with whatever rules there are, stop finding **** to carry on about all the time.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

 

[Splice]

@GHOSTBONE:
Its not that it makes it hard to approach but Electric can force you to approach or get close.
Wind is also just plain hard to deal with and a nuisance whether you learn it or not.

I've played this stage a fair bit, the stages dont really work to your advantage they set both players back.

@"Good enough to be legal/bad enough to be banned" - you are pretentious, get over it lol.

You imply that the fact this game has a strong run-away game means we should endorse things that try to numb it and make players get close. I'm not of the opinion that we should try to make brawl less campy and sometimes reliant on stalling/planking or whatever... the game is how it is deal with it.

Players shouldn't have to adopt a different style of play for different stages.

Im not saying Frigate should be banned. I'm saying I don't like it.

@EVERYONE:
Money Matches?

 

[Ghostbone]

@GHOSTBONE:
Its not that it makes it hard to approach but Electric can force you to approach or get close.
Wind is also just plain hard to deal with and a nuisance whether you learn it or not.

I disagree but it's a matter of opinion really.

@"Good enough to be legal/bad enough to be banned" - you are pretentious, get over it lol.

True but there is a difference

You imply that the fact this game has a strong run-away game means we should endorse things that try to numb it and make players get close. I'm not of the opinion that we should try to make brawl less campy and sometimes reliant on stalling/planking or whatever... the game is how it is deal with it.

Not really.
The game naturally has 42 stages in it right? And by banning each of them we're deviating from the natural meta-game of the game. Brinstar is a part of the game, we shouldn't ban it because it requires a different playstyle than other stages, especially when stages are one of the main things that set smash apart from other fighters.
(i don't feel I'm explaining this properly....:/)

Players shouldn't have to adopt a different style of play for different stages.

Players shouldn't have to adopt a different style of play for different characters.

Ohwait

They in fact should have to adopt a different play style, because the game itself requires them to, just like with characters.

Im not saying Frigate should be banned. I'm saying I don't like it.

Well ok then.

 

[Splice]

nyerrrrrrrrr

I don't really have any more to say about this.

 

[xXArrowXx]

no items, no music, fd, mk only. kgo

i am more upset about defino and halbread glitches. ive fallen through the beach once and the ship's roof and rooftops of defino square in tournament.
ive also been flipped on frigate atleast 3 times in tournament -,-

if more people go from brisbane ill definitely come. hotdogs should come with me and we could stay at lieshas with M and get better at mvc3 together.