Data Mah0ne's Stuff about Puff

[Mahone]

I think you could write a pretty good falcon guide, or revise my sheik guide, since its pretty basic.

 

[idea]

i'll write a sheik guide when i stop losing to them ;_;

hmm falcon i could do though. i could swear i already did that at some point, maybe it was for the other thread.

 

[Mahone]

Ya, you kinda did in this thread... i mean to be perfectly honest there probably aren't enough puff players who view this thread to make it worth it....

I don't really understand how people can ***** about puff so much when there are only like 3 puff players lol

 

[idea]

i think i do understand why people hate her, actually. i've thought about it before. (i just don't agree with it)

 

[KirbyKaze]

Manatee you need to Bair more vs Peach because it ***** her. I also think you're shielding too much vs a character who has such potential to shield-stab. You apply pressure to make Peach roll but you don't really punish as hard as you could. If you're going to throw out F-smashes without setting them up, at least space them so they can't do easy stuff OOS and punish you.

Sheik matchup is just about getting close to them and making them sweat so you can get something to link to Rest or put her offstage. That and taking advantage of her clunky jump game. Her aerial mobility really isn't that good and her jump really is awkwardly high. You should prioritize making Sheik think she needs to do things preemptively and play to not get hit if you're not in a position to get inside her or beat her move.

You should fall on top of Sheik with Fairs or Nairs after she hits you with any move that sends up always. Trust me. It's the best way to do the matchup. Full jump Nair and Fair approaches are also legit. Oh and never crouch. Pound her shield a lot, eventually it will break and let you Rest her. Pound near the edge a lot too as a recovery onto the stage for similar reasons; eventually it will break their shield or will. And with their will broken, you will triumph!

 

[Mahone]

Manatee you need to Bair more vs Peach because it ***** her. I also think you're shielding too much vs a character who has such potential to shield-stab. You apply pressure to make Peach roll but you don't really punish as hard as you could. If you're going to throw out F-smashes without setting them up, at least space them so they can't do easy stuff OOS and punish you.

Sheik matchup is just about getting close to them and making them sweat so you can get something to link to Rest or put her offstage. That and taking advantage of her clunky jump game. Her aerial mobility really isn't that good and her jump really is awkwardly high. You should prioritize making Sheik think she needs to do things preemptively and play to not get hit if you're not in a position to get inside her or beat her move.

You should fall on top of Sheik with Fairs or Nairs after she hits you with any move that sends up always. Trust me. It's the best way to do the matchup. Full jump Nair and Fair approaches are also legit. Oh and never crouch. Pound her shield a lot, eventually it will break and let you Rest her. Pound near the edge a lot too as a recovery onto the stage for similar reasons; eventually it will break their shield or will. And with their will broken, you will triumph!

You know just because you don't play puff doesn't mean you can't write up the sheik matchup, you would get your own COLOR!!! Any one that you want!!

 

[unknown522]

KirbyKaze posting 'cuz I'm lazy to log off of Unknown's account

Uhh

I don't think the matchup is really that complicated. I think Sheik's biggest weakness is that she's easy to Rest and her next biggest issue is that she sucks at pursuing Puff when Puff is moving back in the air because of the disparity between their aerial mobility. I feel most comfortable when Puff tries really hard to get back into the fray after I've launched her, because that allows a lot of illegitimate follows and combos to work. I think Puffs generally have this idea where they have to swing moves at people, and take advantage of their faster recovery time to get an offense going, but that's a really bad idea against Sheik. She'll **** you for that style of play...

I find Puff hardest when she spends like 70% of the match playing to not get hit, and 30% of it in my face trying to cheese me into something she can Rest me for. Whether it be a laggy whiff, a combo, or other shenanigans. If she doesn't force her way into Sheik's range with Fairs and Nairs but sort of slips in when she's doing far-spacing, I find her harder to keep out.

I dunno though, I don't have much patience as a player.

 

[Mahone]

Thanks man, i really appreciate the input, i agree about the part about trying to like always come down with moves even after getting hit, even when the spacing might not be good

I'll probably just take some of your posts and sort of add the ideas to my guide if thats ok with you

 

[KirbyKaze]

Puff can d-throw Sheik and if Sheik DIs anywhere but away then you can combo to Rest or Uair. This is useful for stages where DIing away will put Sheik on a platform. Makes for a really good potential death combo; anything she does upon landing on a platform can be Rested and all other DIs can be combo'd or Rested.

It's especially good on FoD and Yoshi's Story.

 

[Mahone]

ya, but do you happen to know the percents, i notice that sometimes the sheik can di like up and away and then jump before hitting the platform

 

[idea]

i wanna say...she can DI in and jump before you can rest around 30%. this is mostly intuition though <_<

DIing up and away and still trying to jump...i dunno, 55?

 

[KirbyKaze]

I'll test at some point. It probably stops working around like 30-40.

It does make the low percent game super gay though. And having a combo throw (Uair *****) isn't exactly bad.

 

[idea]

yeah, i'm really thankful for dthrow against sheik, it feels like i can't do anything else till she's at like 50%. more so than any other character sheik feels like the one i'm never supposed to approach. (or maybe that's just your sheik <_<)

marth is probably 2nd in that category. but against marth i can use fair more, so that's nice.

 

[Massive]

yeah, i'm really thankful for dthrow against sheik, it feels like i can't do anything else till she's at like 50%. more so than any other character sheik feels like the one i'm never supposed to approach. (or maybe that's just your sheik <_<)

marth is probably 2nd in that category. but against marth i can use fair more, so that's nice.

Marth is my favorite to approach, because you have to bait him to get close.
Talk about exciting.

 

[Keblerelf]

KK are you sure about the falling f-air thing? I feel like whenever I come down with an f-air I always get f-tilted out of it.

 

[KirbyKaze]

You probably don't have the right spacing for falling Fairs. Maybe you should try SHFFL Dair jab approaches; they'll never expect it.

 

[Manatee]

Thanks for the tips KirbyKaze.

@Idea: I wouldn't mind reading a guide for Falcon. He's one of my worst matchups.

 

[Massive]

vs. Falcon: DON'T GET GRABBED.
Take the ledge punish his recovery with rest.
Also, uthrow>uair does wonders.

Try to avoid Dreamland or FD when playing a good falcon, they can exploit the extra land area with their speed and chase you in the air better than on smaller stages.

That's all I've gleaned from my time vs. Jace and Darkrain.

 

[BlueFoxXT]

Easiest way to learn the falcon matchup is to play it, ask where you get punished the hardest, and then watch a bunch of semi recent King matches vrs Jeff and scar to see how he handled that situation. Best puff vrs falcon hands down

 

[Mahone]

Easiest way to learn the falcon matchup is to play it, ask where you get punished the hardest, and then watch a bunch of semi recent King matches vrs Jeff and scar to see how he handled that situation. Best puff vrs falcon hands down

Ya dude, king's vs falcon game is ****, do you know if he's entering gen2?

 

[mers]

Just watched Hbox vs Linguini at CEO. Dair to crouch is so sick.

 

[FoxLisk]

dude puff ***** on FD. platform camping ***** her harder than any other strategy... why would you ever avoid the only stage where you can't get platform camped

 

[Mahone]

Just watched Hbox vs Linguini at CEO. Dair to crouch is so sick.

Hey, mers, aren't you in Nova now, are you going to Sypher's tomorrow?

 

[idea]

dude puff ***** on FD. platform camping ***** her harder than any other strategy... why would you ever avoid the only stage where you can't get platform camped

i would and often do ban it vs. fox...and strike it in some other matchups just 'cause it's a bit boring =P

 

[FoxLisk]

i would and often do ban it vs. fox...and strike it in some other matchups just 'cause it's a bit boring =P

ban it? vs fox? youd rather play on Pokemon & YS - not just one but, potentially, BOTH - than on FD? whoa...

 

[idea]

yoshi's i can kill him fast too and he can't camp me (plus i personally like it for some reason)

stadium is definitely better for him, but it's still nicer than FD

on FD i just can't catch fox. that's really what it comes down to, i have less i can use to deal with his camping game there. and platforms are good for jiggs too, they help a lot with combos and rest setups.

 

[BlueFoxXT]

I have been doing better on fd recently but I still hate fd and am glad I'm not the only one. It's easy for fox to control you out of one uthrow if you aren't completely careful and sneaky. You can't get Dem jumps back on fd, gotta come down to his dashdancing ***

 

[Mahone]

yoshi's i can kill him fast too and he can't camp me (plus i personally like it for some reason)

stadium is definitely better for him, but it's still nicer than FD

on FD i just can't catch fox. that's really what it comes down to, i have less i can use to deal with his camping game there. and platforms are good for jiggs too, they help a lot with combos and rest setups.

Ya i know exactly what you are saying.

I don't think i'm ever going to ban yoshi's again, now that I get taken there a lot i might actually counterpick it lol, some foxes just can't deal with not have space to move around, and if you get really good at sding upthrow upair, it's really not that bad of a stage.

For some reason foxes play smarter on fd and abuse lasers a lot more. Like when they get an upthrow upair, they will immediately run to the other side of the stage and start full hop lasering.... by the time you get to them you've taken like 15 damage in lasers, and like you said, you don't have the plaform to help your combos, whereas all they need is upthrow upair and a few nairs here and there.

I mean technically all you need is a few upthrow rests and a few bairs, but you are too slow to get grabs unlike fox. I guess it comes down to predicting how they are going to cross over, but that **** is hard... if you get used to their habits it wouldn't be that bad, but in a bo3, personally i can't adjust fast enough.

I think stadium is the worst though, room to camp and quick kills, so i just ban that ****... i have yet to get someone to take me Rainbow Cruise, but it's so random that I don't think it's a very wise cp unless the person has played a lot against a jiggs there, which i don't think anyone has lol.

 

[mers]

Hey, mers, aren't you in Nova now, are you going to Sypher's tomorrow?

Yep yep I should be there.

 

[BlueFoxXT]

I have only had one instance of cruise, I moneymatched ciz's fox and I didn know cruise was played in WA so I banned stadium. I won cuz i just got a bunch of upthrow rests. I'd probably rather play cruise than stadium sometimes,

You just gotta wait out the stage until you are somewhere you can wavedash back on and prey. Stadium spacies generally play smarter, even though cruise is worse for puff.

Edit: yoshis isnt amazing for puff but it's one of the better stages to be used against you vrs fox, I personally like it and try to let fox take me there instead of using it as my own cp

 

[Tamoo]

Usually get YS banned against me Can't even sdi the uthrow uair lol

Good point about Rainbow Cruise though, actually noticed that myself, people just don't seem as comfortable there even if it's 'technically' worse for you.

 

[BlueFoxXT]

Yeah PP is the only space animal who plays the stage right.

 

[FoxLisk]

idk, i do really well in fox v puff on yoshi's. at least as well as on stadium. puffs get excited that you're not gonna be able to laser camp them and then you can just DD camp them which is way better anyway.

 

[BlueFoxXT]

Exactly

It isn't really good for puff but it isn't one of the worst, it just takes a lot more spacing and you have to be on point with edgeguards/gimps

 

[FoxLisk]

the thing is, puffs are going to edgeguard foxes like 99% of the time anyway in my experience, unless they're not used to their opponents mixing it up at all. whereas fox is not going to get uthrow uair kills at like 45% on other stages.

also rest kills at 0% on like every stage except dreamland, whereas fox's moves kill way earlier on yoshi's.

idk, i dont like and am terrible at projectile camping (at least with fox...) so i love yoshi's vs puff. i understand that it's up to player preference largely, but my advice is always: against campy foxes, ban PS, and against aggressive ones ban YS. i dont think you should ever choose to play on either of those stages vs. fox.

 

[BlueFoxXT]

0% rests should only happen on yoshis

Lol I don't have good di when I'm the fox but my fox main friends do, mackadotious lives rests all day

Edgeguards should happen 99% of the time bit they dont

Especially me

I suck at edgeguarding lol I just combo

 

[idea]

my stance on yoshi's is basically that i don't mind if i get taken there =P as for actually counterpicking stuff...well, they can only ban one of battlefield, fountain and dreamland. (for fox, exclude dreamland if they're really good at camping)

 

[Mahone]

Ya, i'm not sure what foxlisk is talking about, rest doesn't kill at zero if you are playing someone who is good at diing.

I wouldn't ever recommend banning yoshi's, even against aggressive foxes. Aggressive foxes will still do better on stadium because they have more room to set up ****. On yoshi's you can usually di offstage to prevent a lot of the annoying combos in the matchup like nair upsmash.

Just as empirical evidence, I have recently played Chillin, who is one of the most aggressive foxes out there, and out of the 3 friendlies we played, i only won on yoshi's. Then when we did a mm, he counterpicked me to FD instead of Yoshi's after i banned stadium and ****ed me up (like a low percent 3 stock)... he just had room to do whatever the **** he wanted.

 

[FoxLisk]

ugh okay so rest kills at like 9%, whatever, you get the point

also yall keep doin your thing. im gonna keep being pleased when i get to go yoshi's.

 

[BlueFoxXT]

Nah man I got foxes livin past 40% rests sometimes