Data Mah0ne's Stuff about Puff

[Redd]

I was sad to watch the whole KoC tourney and not see a single jiggs

I think imma train up this week and go to RoM so we can have more than one jiggs that makes a ****ing bracket

Hbox isn't going to RoM anymore.

YOU GOT DIS!!!

Also I won't be there. =(

 

[Mahone]

I don't think im going either, like 2 minutes after i posted that my jump button broke

KP is gonna go and represent all puff players and ****, even though he mains marth

 

[KrIsP!]

Use directional stick to jump, it's what all the top puff players are doing now.

 

[ShroudedOne]

If I were going to RoM, I'd go all Puff for you, Mahone. Maybe Apex.

 

[knightpraetor]

yeah, except i'm in the middle of figuring out whether a loan will come in and give me money to stay alive much less worry about tourneys. You should just go and wreck them. Your jiggs is pretty good at this game. Though I think we would need to play all of thursday and friday for you to be back in good form in time

 

[Construct]

What characters' grabs can Jigglypuff crouch under?

 

[KrIsP!]

I think Sheik and Falcon...and Marth under weird conditions.

Taken from first page "You can crouch standing/jc grab to rest (or running grab if you start crouching as he grabs)" <-Marth

 

[rjgbadger]

wait mahone i thought you were a JWUG like hbox?

 

[ShroudedOne]

I think she can crouch most characters' grabs, except for the really short ones, probably. She can even duck spacies grabs, for like a frame or two (I think, not 100% sure).

 

[Mahone]

What characters' grabs can Jigglypuff crouch under?

someone made a thread with all the details, i really wish it was stickied, but im sure u can find it if u look hard enough

wait mahone i thought you were a JWUG like hbox?

what does that mean?

 

[KrIsP!]

Jump With Up Gamer? Just my assumption.

 

[Massive]

What characters' grabs can Jigglypuff crouch under?

Sheik*, Falcon, Gannondorf, Marth*, Samus, Link, Fox**, Falco**, and probably Zelda (iirc)

*JC or standing grab only
**very short frame window, don't rely on it

 

[KrIsP!]

I've been trying to crouch spacies grabs...hasn't worked once yet so I agree with the "don't rely on it" advice. Honestly easier to jump backwards/wd though constuct never asked about spacies specifically so....no one cares.

 

[-LzR-]

Fox would be so much easier if you could actually crouch under his grab...

 

[rjgbadger]

someone made a thread with all the details, i really wish it was stickied, but im sure u can find it if u look hard enough



what does that mean?

jump
with
up
guy

 

[Bieber]

hey guys any advice for getting in against a falcon that's walling bairs?

it seems like every time i come here for advice it's how to get around camping lol

i had to play tom r (best falcon in IL) and he beat me games 1 and 5 on FD by standing in the middle of the stage and weaving full hop double bairs whenever he had a % lead. on platform stages it didn't really work/i could get around it (i ***** him games 2 and 4 on fod and battlefield, and would've won game 3 on stadium but i misspaced a gimme rest on the last stock). i tried wavedashing backwards into his wall and then shielding so i could bair oos and try to get inside him, but too many times i got shieldpoked by his bair or empty hop grabbed

i also could've avoided the situation by striking to dreamland so he couldn't get 2 games on FD in against me, so i thought i'd ask what stages you all like to strike to vs falcon. they almost always get rid of fountain and battlefield, and all of the remaining (i trade with random knees a lot so yoshi's isn't the best, i THOUGHT fd wasn't too bad but i guess i can get walled off hard there, dreamland gives them too much incentive to camp me) seem like they give falcon the advantage. so uhhh thoughts?

 

[Massive]

From my experiences vs. Darkrain and Jace, the best way to deal with bair spam is to get above him and nair in. You will usually beat it (works with uair too, just not as well).

Try to react to his aerials instead of throwing yours out there. He is very likely punishing your lagtime after an aerial goes off with falcon's safe bair hitbox.

Alternatively, you can wavedash in under him and nair, utilt, or usmash, all good options against falcon. Quasi-relatedly, nair OoS is also great if a falcon is dair pressuring your shield. It will stuff their jump and let you reset or follow up.

 

[Mahone]

Vs falcon id say the stage order, from best for falcon to worst is...

PS
FD
DL
BF/YS (some personal preference here)
FoD

I can't help u with the bair thing... im so ****ing bad vs falcon i go falco in that mu, hope u figure it out and share it with the rest of us

 

[KrIsP!]

from best to worst?

 

[Mahone]

ya, like pokemon stadium is the stage that will help falcon the most... aka the worst stage for puff in the mu

sorry if i wasn't clear

 

[KrIsP!]

oh thought you meant ps will help jiggs the most. disregard it, I was dumb.

 

[idea]

hey guys any advice for getting in against a falcon that's walling bairs?

it seems like every time i come here for advice it's how to get around camping lol

i had to play tom r (best falcon in IL) and he beat me games 1 and 5 on FD by standing in the middle of the stage and weaving full hop double bairs whenever he had a % lead. on platform stages it didn't really work/i could get around it (i ***** him games 2 and 4 on fod and battlefield, and would've won game 3 on stadium but i misspaced a gimme rest on the last stock). i tried wavedashing backwards into his wall and then shielding so i could bair oos and try to get inside him, but too many times i got shieldpoked by his bair or empty hop grabbed

i also could've avoided the situation by striking to dreamland so he couldn't get 2 games on FD in against me, so i thought i'd ask what stages you all like to strike to vs falcon. they almost always get rid of fountain and battlefield, and all of the remaining (i trade with random knees a lot so yoshi's isn't the best, i THOUGHT fd wasn't too bad but i guess i can get walled off hard there, dreamland gives them too much incentive to camp me) seem like they give falcon the advantage. so uhhh thoughts?

yeah, jiggs is slow, so as a general rule she loses to camping

there are a bunch of things you could do even vs. that dumb strategy on FD...off the top of my head:

- wait for him to land and bair quickly
- bair above his head before he jumps again
>>>either you'll hit him, or he'll have to stay in shield; once he's in shield he's not bairing anymore, do normal stuff
- wavedash around in shield
>>>shield grab or fair OOS once you're close enough/he misspaces

that last one sounds like the most practical to me.

either that or just late bairs. this might only be working on you because you full hop bair every time and/or always bair at the peak of your jump...mix up the timing and it's harder for him to hit you. if you bair just before you hit the ground it'll outrange his bair...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

tl;dr: it's probably a movement or aerial timing issue

edit: wait FULL HOP double bairs? in that case just get under him and upair/uptilt

edit 2: uhh vs. falcon i would probably strike dreamland FD. jiggs gains more from platforms than falcon does. i wouldn't want to go to stadium either but i probably wouldn't ban it after winning a match.

falcon is harder on flatter stages because his dash dance is so good. that's like his one strength against jiggs, faster ground speed. well that and knee. platforms don't extend his combos much...sometimes they even let you tech out of dthrow knee...but they can lead to rest combos pretty easily. and you can't upthrow rest him, but you can upthrow > platform techchase > rest him.

 

[Massive]

and you can't upthrow rest him, but you can upthrow > platform techchase > rest him.

Actually, it has been my experience that falcons never expect you to try to upthrow rest them. I occasionally risk it because most are so used to uthrow > uair that they just wait to get hit so they don't lose their jump and then possibly get rest combo'd. So I just uthrow > rest them. After the first one they will usually try jumping out, which you can use uair to ruin the jump and punish. It's one of my favorite falcon fakeouts.

If for some reason you end up on FD, dthrow vs. falcon is also awesome, especially if you're facing towards the ledge. In that case, they can't DI behind you because they will go straight up and you get to rest them, if they DI away then they get ledgeguarded.

 

[-LzR-]

Just decided to say this...
I've been trying to play around with Puff alone with a cpu to practice, but I can't do anything. I fail like 90% of Lcancels, can't ledgewavedash, can't combo, can't do much at all. It feels like she is impossible to play. I don't really understand, Puff isn't technical at all, yet she gives me the most trouble to play with. If I pick Falco or Fox the movement, though harder, feels so much more fluent and natural to me it feels easy.
Has anyone ever felt anything similar? Feeling Puff is too technical for them yet other characters are just fine >_>
Wow I feel dumb for saying that. Maybe I should just main Falco lmao.

 

[Bones0]

I've been saying that for years. FFers just have easier L-cancels. L-cancelling a foot off the ground with FFers almost always works, whereas the same is not true for Puff. They also have a smaller window of potential L-cancel timings, making the L-cancel window itself relatively large.

As far as ledgedashing, I'm not sure it's even good with Puff. >_>

 

[Kaizer]

massive: that's a cool trick, i'll be sure to use it!

ledgedashing is pretty horrible with puff imo. why not just do a tournaround bair/fair, if spaced right it's probably the best opportunity you have from the ledge?

i also sometimes fake a ledgedashing by wd backwards instead to a tournaround bair/fair. but that's pretty risky/not sure if its really good anyhow.

 

[-LzR-]

I wasn't really saying if ledgedashing is good or not, but it's an option and I think it's probably the easiest to pull off with Puff.
And Bones I agree with you in that with Falco when you shffl an aerial, he fall so fast the timing is indeed easier. As with Puff who you have to wait a bit before doing it and it's still a bit tougher. Puff feels super clumsy in my hands yet I have used her for 2 years. Maybe that's why I'm bad... I mess up a lot on technical level which causes me to get punishes much harder and get less reward from hits.
It's really really sad when Puff is too technical for you.

 

[Mahone]

i know exactly what you mean lzr, puff is really hard to stay smooth with... fox/falco are just much easier to control and move with

whenever i take a break from the game and come back my spacies are on point in like 3 matches but my puff.... well my puff still hasn't recovered from not playing for like a month

idk why that is though

 

[KrIsP!]

fastfalling with puff is what ****s it all up for me. Unless it's a move I FF before hitting them I usually press down to quickly and just fall slowly to the ground and then you mess up your lcancel but after a few matches it gets better.

Also, **** technical foxes. With their shines and grabs, but seriously, it's like they dashdance just to DD and walk into my nairs. Just need to make that nair count more. I still gotta work on staying lower to the ground, didn't get punished for it too hard until I faced unknown yesterday and he just stopped midmatch and said he could usmash me if he wanted.

 

[Bones0]

I woulda been like "cool story, bro" and kept staying low.

 

[Massive]

i know exactly what you mean lzr, puff is really hard to stay smooth with... fox/falco are just much easier to control and move with

whenever i take a break from the game and come back my spacies are on point in like 3 matches but my puff.... well my puff still hasn't recovered from not playing for like a month

idk why that is though

I have the opposite experience, my puff is usually very smooth and easily controlled and my spacies feel jagged and weird. I can pop back onto the game after weeks/months of not playing and just drop right back into puff. If i try to start back up with spacies I end up illusioning off the side 2-3 times the first match. I also forget I have projectiles until the 2nd or 3rd match.

My biggest issue with puff has always been that I set up rests and then never hit down-b.

I've also noticed that the only move I really L-cancel is dair (and maybe uair). I use autocancel for nairs and never ground bair/fair because I get punished so hard even with the cancel.

 

[idea]

i know exactly what you mean lzr, puff is really hard to stay smooth with... fox/falco are just much easier to control and move with

whenever i take a break from the game and come back my spacies are on point in like 3 matches but my puff.... well my puff still hasn't recovered from not playing for like a month

idk why that is though

i think it's the same reason it's also harder to stay 'smooth' with falcon than spacies...it's cause there's less tech skill to work with so you have to focus more on timing, and altering timing on aerials isn't automatic.

especially with fox, you almost always want to SHFFL stuff, so the timing becomes muscle memory more easily...with falcon you have to intentionally wait and you l-cancel differently and other button presses are offset from that. same with jiggs. sometimes i have to force myself to l-cancel later than i want to with jiggs. but i mean, there's still a big difference between smoothest spacies and only kind of smooth, it's just harder to notice since they're so fast already.

or, maybe your spacies just suck and it takes no practice to get back to terrible

fastfalling with puff is what ****s it all up for me. Unless it's a move I FF before hitting them I usually press down to quickly and just fall slowly to the ground and then you mess up your lcancel but after a few matches it gets better.

Also, **** technical foxes. With their shines and grabs, but seriously, it's like they dashdance just to DD and walk into my nairs. Just need to make that nair count more. I still gotta work on staying lower to the ground, didn't get punished for it too hard until I faced unknown yesterday and he just stopped midmatch and said he could usmash me if he wanted.

haha you could always just ask me about stuff like this in person

also lol, i dunno why he'd say that, he should have just upsmashed under you and let you get the point yourself

try moving around with wavedashing more. i remember once i started doing that a lot of other things became clear on their own.

 

[-LzR-]

I have no trouble Lcanceling anything with Falcon and Ganon. Only Puff gives the trouble. Maybe I have played the wrong characters for 2 years or I just suck.

 

[Bones0]

You could try using a light press instead of full click if you use L/R, and/or learn to double click the trigger (I believe Kage does this).

 

[KrIsP!]

@idea he didn't quite say it like that. He stopped to give me advice and that's what I took from it. Believe me he punished me enough to get the point across.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Puff is all subtleties.

 

[KrIsP!]

I think the hardest part of learning puff is getting people to play friendlier for more than 10 minutes. I had a guy tell me that was the longest match he'd ever played and then I pointed to the results screen that said 2:58. We laughed but still.

I think people get frustrated when I use my jumps to come down safely after survival DI but I get the same way when foxes just DD all around.

 

[-LzR-]

You could try using a light press instead of full click if you use L/R, and/or learn to double click the trigger (I believe Kage does this).

Is this directed at me? I don't get it.

 

[idea]

I have no trouble Lcanceling anything with Falcon and Ganon. Only Puff gives the trouble. Maybe I have played the wrong characters for 2 years or I just suck.

do it later

srsly, just l-cancel later than you think you should, it'll work.

 

[-LzR-]

Yeah that's what I've been thinking, but I guess I'm doing it too late actually.