- Joined
- Feb 27, 2008
- Messages
- 26,559
I ban Yoshi's Story against Puff. Not enough room to abuse what makes Puff bad at winning.
-
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Data Mah0ne's Stuff about Puff
- Thread starter Mahone
- Start date
Bones0
Smash Legend
I cp YS and shine her off the top at 2%.
Mahone has a bunch of vids of our friendlies, but he's holding out on you guys because he doesn't want anyone to surpass him.
Also, someone should photoshop that pic of Hbox's face onto Leonidas's body.
Mahone has a bunch of vids of our friendlies, but he's holding out on you guys because he doesn't want anyone to surpass him.
Also, someone should photoshop that pic of Hbox's face onto Leonidas's body.
Or Jigglypuff's.
Prince_Abu
Smash Lord
he shouldnt be able to jump away, since you're blocking the side
like if ur comin from the left he can only go to the right cause if he tries running away to the left you'll be in the way w/ spaced bairs
S0FT
Smash Ace
Bieber I have actually been playing the fox matchup a lot lately and this is how I try to think about it.
You can not really approach him and pressure him in an aggressive way or you will get beat up. You can only make him FEEL pressured through defensive spacing. If you want to be aggressive vs a campy fox then choose a different character because puff doesn't have the tools and you are going to get beat up.
The good news is that pretty much all fox players love to push buttons and move fast. I can't think of any fox player that would run away and laser for eight minutes(even two minutes is a long time) people aren't robots and everyone gets bored and eventually will approach you. You should defensively space a mixup of aerials (trying to avoid patterns that might help him better approach you) while you wait for him to approach. The easiest way to win is to have him mess up and run into your aerials the other way is to try to figure out what triggers his approach. Usually he is waiting for you to land or shield so you can just use those two things to bait him into approaching.
You can not really approach him and pressure him in an aggressive way or you will get beat up. You can only make him FEEL pressured through defensive spacing. If you want to be aggressive vs a campy fox then choose a different character because puff doesn't have the tools and you are going to get beat up.
The good news is that pretty much all fox players love to push buttons and move fast. I can't think of any fox player that would run away and laser for eight minutes(even two minutes is a long time) people aren't robots and everyone gets bored and eventually will approach you. You should defensively space a mixup of aerials (trying to avoid patterns that might help him better approach you) while you wait for him to approach. The easiest way to win is to have him mess up and run into your aerials the other way is to try to figure out what triggers his approach. Usually he is waiting for you to land or shield so you can just use those two things to bait him into approaching.
Massive
Smash Champion
We clearly aren't playing the same kind of foxes.
Upsmash trades with all your moves and is dumb on EVERY STAGE.Bieber said:
On Yoshi's Story, rest is an almost always a KO and you can bair anywhere horizontally with a single jump. The low floor means they can't afford to try and chase you down the bottom to shine or falco dair without possibly dieing off the bottom.
Jiggs death %s aren't really that different here than on battlefield, vertically anyway. Yoshi's mostly reduces the impact character speed has on viability.
Mahone
Smash Champion
I think yoshi's is not a very good idea, it can work but its too risky and i don't think its necessary
I remember jman vs hbox gfs from some ny tourney had some really good stuff involving dealing with platform camping and general defensive play from jman
if u can ever get vids bieber itd be a lot easier to help, im sure all the general advice people posted is stuff u already know, but i don't really know what i could add to it without really knowing what the fox is doing
ive been experimenting with some waveland stuff that could work although i havent been able to test it against a campy fox, but if ur like 2 full short hops (basically if u go the max distance horizotally with ur short hop) away from fox, he feels safe lasering because u can only go one short hop distance and throw out an aerial there...
but i just short hop and then waveland FOWARD before i land and am right next to the fox getting his lasering landing lag...
ofc this is just in theory cuz i **** it up so much that i have to visually confirm it and fox is fast so i often times get punished for it, but it seems to have potential, the same goes for platform camping, as you can try to juke them and then waveland in to catch them off guard... i know this **** is sorta gimmicky, but like i said, im not sure what i can tell u without vids... and also the reason its so easy to get stray hits in against her is cuz shes so obvious and slow in the air, so wavelands and edgecancels can help
I remember jman vs hbox gfs from some ny tourney had some really good stuff involving dealing with platform camping and general defensive play from jman
if u can ever get vids bieber itd be a lot easier to help, im sure all the general advice people posted is stuff u already know, but i don't really know what i could add to it without really knowing what the fox is doing
ive been experimenting with some waveland stuff that could work although i havent been able to test it against a campy fox, but if ur like 2 full short hops (basically if u go the max distance horizotally with ur short hop) away from fox, he feels safe lasering because u can only go one short hop distance and throw out an aerial there...
but i just short hop and then waveland FOWARD before i land and am right next to the fox getting his lasering landing lag...
ofc this is just in theory cuz i **** it up so much that i have to visually confirm it and fox is fast so i often times get punished for it, but it seems to have potential, the same goes for platform camping, as you can try to juke them and then waveland in to catch them off guard... i know this **** is sorta gimmicky, but like i said, im not sure what i can tell u without vids... and also the reason its so easy to get stray hits in against her is cuz shes so obvious and slow in the air, so wavelands and edgecancels can help
Bones0
Smash Legend
If they are lasering under a side plat, you could FH towards them to cover their option of jumping to the plat, and then just hard DI back to kick them as they try to run under you. You could do a bair above the plat, ledge cancel towards mid, and then do another bair/fair/uair depending on how far they ran. If they catch on and just start jumping to the plat after you aerial, then you just mix in another jump-bair after the ledge cancel. If Fox is too fast for this to work, even if it's just some stages like DL with high plats, then you could opt for empty FHs above the platform to threaten the jump option, and then WL off the plat towards either side (probably towards mid like above) and use that speed boost to bair him in the back of the head. The main threat to this strategy would probably be him just FH bairing as soon as he gets past you. Idk how much you guys like trading with Fox.
/theorybros
/theorybros
Massive
Smash Champion
I think it really depends on how confident you are in the short range matchup.
With the influx of campy foxes, I've found it to be a phenomenal counter-pick. The foxes that rely on circle camping and lasering resort to that usually because they are not confident they can handle puff's short game. Making them do exactly that seems to be a pretty good decision to me, anyway.
Your mileage may vary, of course.
This one?
I think that, if anything, this match in itself is pretty strong advocacy for not playing on DL64 against fox if at all possible. It nearly timed out, and I'd wager a puff without Hbox's insight would've not been able to pull it off in the end.
S0FT
Smash Ace
Massive show me one video of a fox never approaching....
In fact massive if you really have it in your head that you know a fox that doesn't approach ill prove it to you. Fight the fox player you think doesn't approach and just stand there on one side of the stage. If the match times out and you have 4 stocks you are right if you lose one life though then you would have been proven wrong.
In fact massive if you really have it in your head that you know a fox that doesn't approach ill prove it to you. Fight the fox player you think doesn't approach and just stand there on one side of the stage. If the match times out and you have 4 stocks you are right if you lose one life though then you would have been proven wrong.
Mahone
Smash Champion
i just skimmed what u wrote, but it didnt sound like a lot of it would work... the problem is smart foxes just go to the top plat... wait for u to get relatively high to try to even get the chance to hit them, then quickly get back on the ground and BAM... they're under you now
you cant do **** to fox when hes under you, sometimes you can space a nair is such a way to stuff a lot of his stuff... but like bieber said, upsmash will just trade with it...
you see mango kill hbox a lot with upsmash trading with this type of nair
even if they cant adapt to the mu, they will still find that upthrow upair kills quicker, as does upsmash, and even though rest is a guaranteed kill most of the time, its also a guaranteed trade if they are smart and tack on some safe damage before going in
Now that i think about it more though, you are right, it can be a great counterpick if you know ur opponents strategy
its just that im always worried that they will be good at the aggressive aspects of the mu and then suddenly regret counterpicking myself instead of picking a safe option like fod or bf... you convinced me though, im pretty sure im done with this game, but if i do play a campy fox and lose, imma take him yoshis next time
Also, those are the vids i was talking about, i haven't watched them in a while so you're probably right, i just remember that was like the only time ive ever seen a high level puff fox where the fox tries to do what bieber was describing, so regardless of what happens im sure he could pick up at least a thing or two from that video... rather than watch mango vs hbox and not have any of the situations he described come up
I have to agree with soft on this, foxes will usually approach when ur at upthrow-upair kill percents even though in theory they dont need to and could just win with a percentage lead... they just are always hungry for the kill...
BUT, soft, i don't think its bad to think of how to beat camping and those theory bros options, because it leads to useful discussion, even though it might not be necessary in the real world
Man. Puff forums go hard. Taking so many notes on how I'm supposed to be playing the matchup... My strat was to just go in...
Massive
Smash Champion
I have not encountered a fox that will never approach. I'm talking about foxes that are not above laser camping until they have a sizable advantage, and will then run in and abuse their safe/catchall moves to get KOs. If you have not seen this type of fox, I would be very surprised.
Bones0
Smash Legend
Okay, that makes sense. Thanks.
Mahone
Smash Champion
You're welcome... want some dota?
i got a free dota 2 that i can gift apparently, so if any of u guys want it just add me on steam and ill get it to u
my steam name is birdpoop
i got a free dota 2 that i can gift apparently, so if any of u guys want it just add me on steam and ill get it to u
my steam name is birdpoop
Krynxe
I can't pronounce it either
Yay for page 39!
if you're using master-race 40ppp
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
What do you guys think of the Link MU and Peach MU?
Curious
Curious
Bones0
Smash Legend
70-30 and 55-45.
70-30 being Puff > Peach, of course.
70-30 being Puff > Peach, of course.
So what exactly do you do against Peach? Our best player is a Peach and I notice even he has trouble against bair spam, but what else is there to it? If you try to combo Peach, I get hit, if Peach is on the ground, dsmash and so on. Where to DI her throws? What to do when Peach is attacking my shield, I doubt I can punish that stuff.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
I think vs Peach, Puff has to...
I think you mostly force her to the edge. Throw her offstage a lot. Try to covert those throws into bair chains or similar combos (or are they edgeguards?). If she starts jumping or whatever to avoid the grabs then punish accordingly (again, try to make this lead to a rest or bair chain that puts her offstage). Peach won't want to sidestep or roll because of the punishment in a general sense so you're usually countering jump and WD.
Bair chain will often be your only real combo in the MU. Bair chain is seriously an amazing tool vs Peach. Like, her specifically. It counters tons of her usual character advantages.
I'm not sure how fair works but it feels like it's better for weaving around her game. Don't do them in a way that you can be dash attacked, 'cuz she likes to anti-air low priority aerials with it. Mostly just use it to float around turnips and aim it at her head. Sometimes you can combo off it, other times just nudge her and see if she'll do a bad counterattack you can punish. Aiming at Peach's head is good in general. Nair also works but the drift feels more telegraphed because you can DJ after fair sooner. Nair's AC and higher priority are kind of useful though.
Camping her full screen is dumb. It's the easiest way to lose the MU aside from shielding turnips or trying to counterattack too much after being hit and getting ***** for it. Anyway, Puff is the aggressor in this one. You don't want her to get veggies because they can zone you (especially if she can use it to keep you pressed to the ground or near to the ground) and she has turnip throw OOS vs bair. And other crap. So you're on offense because why deal with all this crap?
Once she's on defense she might try to muscle her way back in. If she's trying to mount an offense to try and regain stage (so she can pull veggies and such), she'll probably try to do weird stuff with DJC bair and stuff. To beat this just stay out of her fall zone (so she can't use weird bair angles to attack when she's floating with her back to you). If she's facing forward and tries dair, fair, or nair then focus on stuffing the fair and outranging the other two by keeping your body aligned with her's on the same plane. Beware of dash FJ and SH nairs. Both those both lose to defensive weave > bair, but they can sometimes come out of nowhere so be wary of those desperation attacks.
U-tilt shield poke to rest is good at low percent but easily beaten if they know how to avoid it and then you get naired or shield grabbed almost for sure. So don't try to force it 'cuz this MU is all about the long term. If they are doing shield stuff to counter u-tilt, grab them and toss them towards the edge since that's where she's weakest.
Shield DI away from d-smashes on your shield to avoid the pierce or shield break. Roll is also good because frame 2 invuln is ********. DI her f-throw with standard survival DI. DI her d-throw behind her. The other two don't really matter.
Peach has legit low percent combos on you but don't worry about them. If you're d-smashed, just don't try to counterattack because they all look for that so they can stuff you action with nair. Just back off and accept you've taken 20% or so and prepare to go through the grind of getting stage control back from her.
Turnips mainly extend her fall zone. Handle them by staying outside their range, going around them, or by making her overextend on the turnip > aerial approach and nair through the turnip and hit her. Whichever seems most appropriate. Do not shield them unless you're confident you won't get your roll or whatever other defense you pick predicted because she can hurt you for doing so. Mobility is a better defense vs turnips.
I think you mostly force her to the edge. Throw her offstage a lot. Try to covert those throws into bair chains or similar combos (or are they edgeguards?). If she starts jumping or whatever to avoid the grabs then punish accordingly (again, try to make this lead to a rest or bair chain that puts her offstage). Peach won't want to sidestep or roll because of the punishment in a general sense so you're usually countering jump and WD.
Bair chain will often be your only real combo in the MU. Bair chain is seriously an amazing tool vs Peach. Like, her specifically. It counters tons of her usual character advantages.
I'm not sure how fair works but it feels like it's better for weaving around her game. Don't do them in a way that you can be dash attacked, 'cuz she likes to anti-air low priority aerials with it. Mostly just use it to float around turnips and aim it at her head. Sometimes you can combo off it, other times just nudge her and see if she'll do a bad counterattack you can punish. Aiming at Peach's head is good in general. Nair also works but the drift feels more telegraphed because you can DJ after fair sooner. Nair's AC and higher priority are kind of useful though.
Camping her full screen is dumb. It's the easiest way to lose the MU aside from shielding turnips or trying to counterattack too much after being hit and getting ***** for it. Anyway, Puff is the aggressor in this one. You don't want her to get veggies because they can zone you (especially if she can use it to keep you pressed to the ground or near to the ground) and she has turnip throw OOS vs bair. And other crap. So you're on offense because why deal with all this crap?
Once she's on defense she might try to muscle her way back in. If she's trying to mount an offense to try and regain stage (so she can pull veggies and such), she'll probably try to do weird stuff with DJC bair and stuff. To beat this just stay out of her fall zone (so she can't use weird bair angles to attack when she's floating with her back to you). If she's facing forward and tries dair, fair, or nair then focus on stuffing the fair and outranging the other two by keeping your body aligned with her's on the same plane. Beware of dash FJ and SH nairs. Both those both lose to defensive weave > bair, but they can sometimes come out of nowhere so be wary of those desperation attacks.
U-tilt shield poke to rest is good at low percent but easily beaten if they know how to avoid it and then you get naired or shield grabbed almost for sure. So don't try to force it 'cuz this MU is all about the long term. If they are doing shield stuff to counter u-tilt, grab them and toss them towards the edge since that's where she's weakest.
Shield DI away from d-smashes on your shield to avoid the pierce or shield break. Roll is also good because frame 2 invuln is ********. DI her f-throw with standard survival DI. DI her d-throw behind her. The other two don't really matter.
Peach has legit low percent combos on you but don't worry about them. If you're d-smashed, just don't try to counterattack because they all look for that so they can stuff you action with nair. Just back off and accept you've taken 20% or so and prepare to go through the grind of getting stage control back from her.
Turnips mainly extend her fall zone. Handle them by staying outside their range, going around them, or by making her overextend on the turnip > aerial approach and nair through the turnip and hit her. Whichever seems most appropriate. Do not shield them unless you're confident you won't get your roll or whatever other defense you pick predicted because she can hurt you for doing so. Mobility is a better defense vs turnips.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Yeah in general you just want to constantly prevent Peach from establishing stage presence. She can't do that offstage and it's conveniently where your main combo (bair chain) is strongest so yeah your throws are almost always best used just tossing her offstage (or towards the edge) so you can get your pressure going. She doesn't like being near the edge in general. Her ledge recovery options suck and Puff's good vs umbrella if she doesn't make a juke and get below Puff in a recoverable position (I think low recovery is better than high vs Puff 'cuz the umbrella can swat Puff's non invuln edgeguards and her sweetspot is decent).
Regarding combos into rest... there are some. The important ones are:
Shield > jump rest (on Peach dash attack)
Jump > fall > rest (on Peach down smash whiff - useful if they spam it)
u-tilt > rest (low percents, usually acquired by shield poking with u-tilt)
uair > rest (SHFFL version and rising uair > DJ > rest versions... percent ranges are slim though)
bair > rest (watch Mango vs Armada from Genesis 1... match on FD I think)
You can also nair rest and dair rest but I don't see people go for them and I find dair > u-smash is a pretty good KO tool on her anyway. That said, her rest punish sucks unless she gets lucky so finding ways to hit rest on her frequently is a good way to win the MU. She's pretty comboable by aerials - I've been stressing bair chain but really as long as you outrange & prepare for her counterattacks and combo break options you can extend punishment on her a lot. And Puff conveniently has the mobility to chase her in the air and has a few moves that outrange her standard combo break go-to (nair).
@ Bones
I think falling on the edge with dair (also hits super low, not techable) and then following with fair chain offstage or ledgehopping weak reverse fair (and other edgeguards of this family) are just generally easier to hit than u-tilt (which also looks more techable). The move only seems to hit low for a bit too, so the timing looks really tight. Moreover, than setup requires Puff on the ground facing backwards and it's generally easier to reach the edge by air because she's faster in the air. So turning around and all that setup probably present limiting factors.
Her low jump height also probably limits its usefulness at medium and high percents - spacies can jump to the moon in the blink of an eye so following a high launch is easy. But Puff struggles with that sometimes.
I think dragging people down with weak fairs (and the bair chain) is still her best edgeguard vs most characters. Aside from resting Up+B lag.
Regarding combos into rest... there are some. The important ones are:
Shield > jump rest (on Peach dash attack)
Jump > fall > rest (on Peach down smash whiff - useful if they spam it)
u-tilt > rest (low percents, usually acquired by shield poking with u-tilt)
uair > rest (SHFFL version and rising uair > DJ > rest versions... percent ranges are slim though)
bair > rest (watch Mango vs Armada from Genesis 1... match on FD I think)
You can also nair rest and dair rest but I don't see people go for them and I find dair > u-smash is a pretty good KO tool on her anyway. That said, her rest punish sucks unless she gets lucky so finding ways to hit rest on her frequently is a good way to win the MU. She's pretty comboable by aerials - I've been stressing bair chain but really as long as you outrange & prepare for her counterattacks and combo break options you can extend punishment on her a lot. And Puff conveniently has the mobility to chase her in the air and has a few moves that outrange her standard combo break go-to (nair).
@ Bones
I think falling on the edge with dair (also hits super low, not techable) and then following with fair chain offstage or ledgehopping weak reverse fair (and other edgeguards of this family) are just generally easier to hit than u-tilt (which also looks more techable). The move only seems to hit low for a bit too, so the timing looks really tight. Moreover, than setup requires Puff on the ground facing backwards and it's generally easier to reach the edge by air because she's faster in the air. So turning around and all that setup probably present limiting factors.
Her low jump height also probably limits its usefulness at medium and high percents - spacies can jump to the moon in the blink of an eye so following a high launch is easy. But Puff struggles with that sometimes.
I think dragging people down with weak fairs (and the bair chain) is still her best edgeguard vs most characters. Aside from resting Up+B lag.
Massive
Smash Champion
KK has hit most of the points on the peach matchup so I'll just add one tid-bit of knowledge.
Picking a stage with platforms (anywhere but FD, basically) works in your favor if you want to be a little more liberal with your rests, since platforms seriously mess up peach's best rest punish (uthrow with turnip). You can still die from fthrow at certain %s, but you can easily miss a rest well into the 50s-60s and not die from her punish (which will be Fthrow or dsmash if she can't turnip > usmash).
Oh yeah, and nair through turnips.
Picking a stage with platforms (anywhere but FD, basically) works in your favor if you want to be a little more liberal with your rests, since platforms seriously mess up peach's best rest punish (uthrow with turnip). You can still die from fthrow at certain %s, but you can easily miss a rest well into the 50s-60s and not die from her punish (which will be Fthrow or dsmash if she can't turnip > usmash).
Oh yeah, and nair through turnips.
Beat!
Smash Master
My personal favourite is get hit by dsmash --> rest.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6iW3M18lTAI#t=2m49s
hungrybox
Smash Legend
Yoshis>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Pokemon Stadium
against fox
against fox
knightpraetor
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2005
- Messages
- 2,321
so after watching that match, i'm convinced I should play campier whenever i'm fox and above 50%..so much easier to cross over using the top platforms...though if jiggs is up they have no reason to go up after you..they can just hold center stage
idea
Smash Master
nair rest is pretty bad against peach since she'll usually crouch cancel the nair and hit you first. if you even manage to hit her with her shield down. also it's just slow and peach is already watching your movements carefully to try to counter them. before trying this see if/how much they're CCing other stuff.
upair is kinda the same, they just crouch cancel it and you get dsmashed. that's why KK said you'll usually get uptilts by shieldpoking (and why that's the most worthwhile time to try it, when they can't crouch cancel). it can also just catch their jump, since peaches love to jump out of shield.
but ideally you should be using the secret technique...land behind their shield, WAIT 0.8 SECONDS, then uptilt.
one thing i like to do is intentionally trade fsmash with her aerials, especially fair. you have to do it pretty early vs. fair to get underneath it in time. it's such a good way to sneak in an easy kill move.
upair is kinda the same, they just crouch cancel it and you get dsmashed. that's why KK said you'll usually get uptilts by shieldpoking (and why that's the most worthwhile time to try it, when they can't crouch cancel). it can also just catch their jump, since peaches love to jump out of shield.
but ideally you should be using the secret technique...land behind their shield, WAIT 0.8 SECONDS, then uptilt.
one thing i like to do is intentionally trade fsmash with her aerials, especially fair. you have to do it pretty early vs. fair to get underneath it in time. it's such a good way to sneak in an easy kill move.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
I'm quoting this to both emphasize it and highlight its deeper implications
Prince_Abu
Smash Lord
vs peach i like to edeguard with fair as opposed to bair because its faster so she cant do the umbrella thing where she like drops her umbrella and u miss the bair
Mahone
Smash Champion
I was sad to watch the whole KoC tourney and not see a single jiggs
I think imma train up this week and go to RoM so we can have more than one jiggs that makes a ****ing bracket
I think imma train up this week and go to RoM so we can have more than one jiggs that makes a ****ing bracket
Winston
Smash Master
Damnit mahone
knightpraetor
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2005
- Messages
- 2,321
yeah mahone wreck em all
also, ken is amazing. I honestly think he could be placing top 10 in less than 2 weeks of refreshing his tech skill.
also, ken is amazing. I honestly think he could be placing top 10 in less than 2 weeks of refreshing his tech skill.
part of me was hoping to see mango pull the jiggz out at some point in doubles/if not singles (not likely though especially not in finals against pp)I was sad to watch the whole KoC tourney and not see a single jiggs
I think imma train up this week and go to RoM so we can have more than one jiggs that makes a ****ing bracket
inb4 Eclipsingbinary recorded secret mango puff footage.
Mahone
Smash Champion
KrIsP!
Smash Champion
When is rom? Please don't tell me its next weekend, and yeah I was sad that there was no jiggs and that even ken complained about them. Gotta rep the jiggs board mahone
hungrybox
Smash Legend
its next weekend
KrIsP!
Smash Champion
Daammmmmnnnn. Damn.
Edit: Still having trouble with jab reset>rest. I'm practicing on computers but it's rare that I can get to them in time, I have this habit of throwing out an aerial when someone misses a tech, mostly because cpus always miss techs and roll/gua immediately. I've been dashing and cancelling with crouch but where i'm at now I jab them and then they roll away still, or i'm just plain too late. I get I can't be tech chasing accros the stage with puff but I can't seem to get any practice with this either.
Also, mahone you pimpin' http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFgRczz0pjY
Edit: Still having trouble with jab reset>rest. I'm practicing on computers but it's rare that I can get to them in time, I have this habit of throwing out an aerial when someone misses a tech, mostly because cpus always miss techs and roll/gua immediately. I've been dashing and cancelling with crouch but where i'm at now I jab them and then they roll away still, or i'm just plain too late. I get I can't be tech chasing accros the stage with puff but I can't seem to get any practice with this either.
Also, mahone you pimpin' http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFgRczz0pjY
hungrybox
Smash Legend
Jump diagonally into their body and rest the frame you leave the groundDaammmmmnnnn. Damn.
Edit: Still having trouble with jab reset>rest. I'm practicing on computers but it's rare that I can get to them in time, I have this habit of throwing out an aerial when someone misses a tech, mostly because cpus always miss techs and roll/gua immediately. I've been dashing and cancelling with crouch but where i'm at now I jab them and then they roll away still, or i'm just plain too late. I get I can't be tech chasing accros the stage with puff but I can't seem to get any practice with this either.
Also, mahone you pimpin' http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFgRczz0pjY
Mahone
Smash Champion
I wanna go on record and say that is NOT where my name comes from