Data Mah0ne's Stuff about Puff

[Krynxe]

^ Lol sounds like a terrible idea
inb4 name puns

 

[King5280]

from my experience a pound should be a scarcely used mix-up. its really good if they are 90-100% not expecting it. if you miss, especially vs fox, you will usually get punished pretty hard.

 

[FoxLisk]

If you random pound at them, they'll get really confused and scared to approach and it just generally helps you stay in control of the match. Do do it too much because usmash punish hurts

i just don't agree with this at all. pound is so telegraphed that unless i'm already committed to an approach (which i'm usually not, against puff), there's almost no chance that i'll get hit by it. and if I am committed to an approach, I'll probably still tech the pound (because it's slow as ****) and I can just techroll away and be relatively safe.

 

[Krynxe]

Like Idea said, pound has an odd and disorienting hitbox that stays out for a rather long time. Fox, as well as Falco, run into it a lot when they don't expect it because of pound's priority. I'm not saying that constantly using it throughout a match will have any significant effect in itself, but in this MU better Fox players will stay back and wait for good opportunities to approach puff by picking up on their jump/aeriel patterns and learning theirs habits and by utilizing pounds makes the Fox significantly more hesitant to approach when they think they've figured out these patterns. You're also in a very good position when they're on the floor having to tech, allowing you to apply pressure to the match by covering certain tech options which forces their tech to put them in a position on the map that better benefits you if not punish them.

Edit: This is just imo, I'd like to hear your thoughts if you still disagree FoxLisk.

 

[Kaizer]

Exactly. I feel pounds is greatly underrated, since it's so weird and looks so damn slow. Thing is, pound comes out of nowhere if used correctly.

It can also be used in edgeguards, if for instance a fair will get them to be able to tech the wall. Depends on what percentage, but if excecuted right you should be able to bair them out after the pound. Maybe an obvious bit, but oh well.

 

[Bing]

I use Pound way too much when I play as Puff.. Im trying to correct that but its a horrible habit... like how I illusion into the middle of the stage all the time(God damn CPU habits)

 

[Krynxe]

When I play I rarely use pound. I think I under use it a little, but it can be very helpful at times like I mentioned.

I don't always have mixups. But when I do, I prefer pound.

@Kaizer Pound doesn't really work for ledge guarding because it send your opponents mostly upwards and behind you. Unless you catch a lower percent spacie with it, otherwise you'd probably help your opponent recover.

 

[Bing]

I like sending them off stage, then pound from the otherside >

Basically it works with failed walls of Pain or other offstage combos

 

[Krynxe]

Yeah, it can work out like that sometimes. I think I would only found that trick useful on Yoshi's when he enemy is too low to fair/bair without dying, you just go right by them and rising pound and then recover.

 

[Bing]

Yeah it mostly does work on yoshi's/ a stage with small blast lines

 

[ShroudedOne]

Puff is really hard when you only get to play once a week. I need to buy a new power cord sooooooon...

 

[Krynxe]

Power cord for what?

Also, I only get to play once a month. Maybe twice if I'm lucky. :'(

 

[ShroudedOne]

Power cord for my Gamecube. Without it, I can't even practice. My old one shorted out on me or something, I dunno. It just stopped working one day, while I was playing, and then that was it.

 

[Krynxe]

Hey guys

I just wrote a whole page of notes of stuff on the Falco matchup and another page on the Falcon mu. Going to Manifest after I wake up, going to sleep after this post, so I'll be able to play some really good players, get some good advice, polish up my notes and hopefully be able to present you guys with a good amount of new (and some old) discussion info.

Here's the livestream to manifest btw: http://www.twitch.tv/meleepacwest
It'll be pools tomorrow starting at noon PST.

I'll try to make a shoutout to the pawfs

 

[idea]

random advice for manifest:

if someone shields a lot, grab them more.

if, in response, they start shielding then moving out of it before you can grab them, try bairing the area above their head. they probably want to jump out of shield, even when jump isn't the best option.

this doesn't work as well on marths because marths want to wavedash out of shield. they want to wavedash back and regain their spacing anyway because that's what they do in all their matchups, and because marth has a really good wavedash. it's what they're most comfortable with. for other characters, their movement is based around jumping and running, and obviously they can't run out of shield, so they jump.

i feel like the psychological aspect of smash is ignored too much

 

[Krynxe]

Yeah, I focus so much on the psychological stuff but I haven't had enough opportunities to apply what I learned so it's not habitual and I often forget a lot of stuff when I actually play. Thanks

 

[boomrested]

Good luck at Manifest.

I've been testing out more new stuff, in the hope that I'll actually stumble upon something useful. One of the main weaknesses in my playstyle is I freak out whenever they land behind my shield, and do something stupid. Started upsmashing oos, and it worked like a charm. Even leads to rest at very specific percents.

Also tried using dair as a modified jab reset for when there's not enough time to land and then jab, I think it's got potential. Also, I'm trying to find a decent use for downsmash and . I feel like downsmash on platforms would be godly because of the trajectory it sends them at. I'll post a video in a bit that shows me using these new things. Hope it helps.

Finally, I've been working on that compilation of Puff knowledge. Getting useful posts on matchups, rest techniques, and general strategies from old posts by King, Mango, and Hungrybox. Plus posts from that freaking 380 page mango puff guide. Krynxe, when you're done with your puff guide, you should consider adding a link to my thread(once I finish/post it) so that the new puffs can learn stuff.

I'm going to a tournament next weekend and I'll post some videos for critique. Second tournament ever, woohoo.

 

[Krynxe]

Good stuff. Also, I made brackets for tomorrow. The tourney is so stacked though, I'm predicted last place for myself tbh. I'd be happy to win a single match against all the great players that are there. There's this mad good puff player from Oregon that you guys should look out for if you watch the stream, though. I don't remember his tag right now.

 

[ShroudedOne]

Hi Krynxe. I saw you on stream today. How dare you lose to Bladewise in an MU that is free for you?

Good luck in bracket tomorrow. Probably going to lurk here more, cause the Peach boards upset me.

Also, I added you on AIM. So...yeah.

 

[Krynxe]

Oh cool, yeah message me whenever

And yeah, Teddy is so good. He's ranked second here, so I still have a hard time against him. I wasn't playing very seriously cause it was a friendly, so I was being pretty aggro and going into those dsmashes and stuff. /shame

Thank you very much, though. :3

 

[ShroudedOne]

>Says message me whenever
>Isn't on

 

[Krynxe]

What dude I'm totally on right now

krynxe@hotmail.com dudebro

 

[King5280]

Is a samus writeup still in the works? Cause that would be awesome. People actually play her in the Midwest, it's prettys stupid.

 

[Bing]

I wouldnt know much about this, but wouldnt crouching until you get within bair range be a decent idea?

I know nothing about this MU....

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Just be puff... samus doesn't have an answer to bair. The only thing she can do is try to bait you into bairing early and then moving in for some chip damage. Crouch under missiles or jump over them or throw out bair. They might end up trying platform shenanegans to come down on your head (which samus is actually pretty good at) so make sure u keep her horizontal. Also don't get too much above her, she has good high pokes. If you get her off stage, edgeguard her well.

The midwest samus players (duck and rat i assume you mean) are really smart. Don't get predictable cause they will catch on. They have a lot of baits, so don't get too greedy either.

 

[Krynxe]

Samoose don't have to shoot super missiles, they can shoot the homing ones if you're ducking a lot. This MU is difficult to figure out, it's very unique and interesting, but Samus is definitely a character who can be dealt once you figure stuff out. I can try working on some stuff for this MU, I have a really good ranked Samus player here in WA and I'll talk to him about it next time I see him.

Also, we like just talked about Samus.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=14197109&highlight=samus#post14197109

 

[Bing]

Does Jiggs bair trade with Samus' nair?

Also wouldnt a smaller stage like Yoshi's or battlefield be the better options?

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

I would think that smaller stages would allow samus to more easily push you out of your horizontal based zone as well as kill you sooner (puff has the recovery advantage; puff edgeguards samus but not in reverse).

all just speculation, any good puffs reading?

 

[Krynxe]

Bair will have more priority if you time/do it correctly.

And Bing, I JUST posted a link to the samus convo 2 pages ago in this thread. Like my post said

for stages, definitely BF is a great choice due to it limiting Samus' recovery and just generally making gimping her much easier. FD is pretty good because Samus doesn't have the mobility to get around you so you can pressure her by the edge, but you have to be good at dealing with her spam. DL64 is half and half, Samus never dies there but neither do you. Puff can go out there and gimp Samus' recovery so it's not all that bad. Imo, Yoshi's is pretty bad as always, Stadium is really bad (I ban it) and FoD is probably in favor of Samus because she can abuse the lower platforms much easier and recover easily.

 

[Bing]

Clearly I did not open said link, but thank you for posting that.

 

[Tekk]

I have an opposite opinion concerning FD and FoD.
I think platforms are really, really useful to puff, you can trick samus in so many ways with them.
The exception being PS, but this stage sucks balls anyway.

So FD not having platforms makes it kind of in samus' favor; baiting and chasing her both become more difficult on that stage, plus it's the stage where she recovers the best.
On FoD, edgeguarding her is really not that hard, thanks to the close blastzones. If she tries to do that walljump recovery you can just grab the edge. Also, I think the FoD platforms are pretty good if you use them well (more on that later).
I guess it depends on your preferences.

I'm really sorry for being so inactive lately puffs, I'll fix that. =/

 

[Krynxe]

Right, I see your points there. When I play characters on FD, particularly those with less mobility like Samus, I focus much more on stage control. If/when you stay close to Samus, she can't really do anything with her projectiles. She's just going to bait utilts and whatnot, but if you're smart with it you can slowly push her to the edge and just hold stage control until the Samus get scared and uncomfortable with their position and tries to do stuff that you can punish. It is harder to deal with baiting and chasing her on FD, like you said Tekk, but Samus has really limited option in this MU and that's further hindered without the platforms. It's easier to know everything the Samus wants to do, and not let them work.

I guess I would say, for this MU
BF > DL64 ≥ FD = FoD (preference) > YS > PS

 

[Tekk]

Yeah I agree.

 

[Bing]

For when on FD wouldnt it also be a smart idea to try and bait the samus into an unsafe Up-B (The onstage for damage one) so you can punish the fall?

You may be thinking what Samus would do this... but it happens...

 

[Massive]

For when on FD wouldnt it also be a smart idea to try and bait the samus into an unsafe Up-B (The onstage for damage one) so you can punish the fall?

You may be thinking what Samus would do this... but it happens...

I don't think I've ever seen it happen... not from a real-life Samus main anyway.

I've found that nairing them out of bomb-jump recovery is a pretty effective tactic. Also doing pretty much anything to ruin the grapple ledgehang > retract is quite pleasant.

 

[KrIsP!]

You could bait it with high bairs I guess but you have to stay out of that utilt range and be playing someone stupid. Theory mode, I think it would work once or twice for a free rest but it would probably be easier to bait other moves wouldn't it?

 

[Smasher89]

Samus should not even get a single hit on puff, just retreat one bair> top platform> wait for them to move into your free bairs, or wait for the timer to reach 0.
EDIT: They do have an option showed in a popular old video though.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Umm what? Samus can actually attack up really well, and puff has a ****ty time defending low.

As for samus upbing on stage... just rest her. 'Nuff said.

As for edgeguarding her... just aim for the bombs, she can't bomb jump without them. Hitting her doesn't really matter, if she has to come low you can kill her ezpz

 

[Republican0fHeaven]

Is it tough to rest Samus out of her upBoos ???? Do you have to sdi down or something?

I feel like a lot of the time she may get her shield up before I rest....

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

if it doesn't hit you, just run after her... if you get hit and SDI out, you can probably still rest her. If you get hit by them all... im not sure, but maybe