Data Mah0ne's Stuff about Puff

[Varist]

OMG I HATE YOU KRYNXE YOU DESTROYER OF MANGO'S LAST LEGACY YOU HAD THE GALL TO UNSTICKY AND LOCK HIS CREATION I WILL HURT YOU SOMEDAY

):< ffff

 

[Tekk]

Mango moved on.
Sadly, so did we.

 

[boomrested]

Tekk's got my vote for second best puff. I'm thinking of stealing his blue bow.

 

[crush]

Blue puff is most fashionable. I like being red too and sometimes i like being naked.

 

[idea]

blue bow puff is the slowest.

 

[Massive]

Blue bow puff is my puff of choice.

She won it at the county fair for being some pig.

 

[Republican0fHeaven]

loool

And I have always played blue bow puff... it got to the point where I had to be blue in teams.... but now I am branching out. I try to practice different things with different costumes:

red: nairs mobility, autocancel nairs
naked: mixing up bair chains
green: tough rests, sing ledgegrab
blue: try to win

So Krynxe, are you saying that your 5th jump is just as high as your 3rd jump if you are doing rising pounds after each jump???

Didn't know that.....

 

[idea]

naked is best at bair, red is noob puff, a lot of people pick red first for some reason, blue is the slowest, crown has the best "mindgames" , and rambo puff i don't really have anything for. it's the quirky one i guess, you never know what to expect.

 

[ShroudedOne]

Crown Puff is best Puff. Protest in second. Red and blue are questionable. Naked is OK.

 

[Krynxe]

So Krynxe, are you saying that your 5th jump is just as high as your 3rd jump if you are doing rising pounds after each jump???

Didn't know that.....

No, I was just saying that jump decay exists if you don't do anything besides jump. I'm uncertain of the effect of rising pound/aerials on the jump decay, which is what I was questioning. Strong Bad get back in here and answer these questions.

 

[_eternal]

Just to double check: when edgeguarding (especially vs spacies), it's generally better to wait for them to commit and then react to it than to try to read, right? I'm sure reads are necessary for those low-percent bthrow gimps, but I'm guessing you can just wait and react to, say, a spacie or Marth sideB? I've noticed that I unconsciously try to predict when my opponent will dj and I end up missing but I'm starting to think there's no need for that if you jump to the right height and just wait.

 

[Krynxe]

Yeah, it's very situational but in general don't over-commit to a read if it isn't necessary. Like you said, you gotta go for those quick gimps sometimes but at high percents, be more safe. Waiting for your opponent can be bad sometimes too, because it gives them opportunities to get back. Going out there is generally the best choice, but you have to be sure to cover multiple options and stay in a position where you control the stage.

So like if a spacie is off stage, if you have time try to go above them and then like FF nair/fair on front of them or something so that they can't go anywhere, or if you think they're going to illusion the ledge you can dash attack the ledge and still have time to fall off fair if they go for up+b. Mahone posted awhile ago about his trick where you jump off and dair, which covers so many options from spacies. The problem with dair is that they can still up+b after it, but that's usually their only option so be prepared to smack them again for easy kills.

Just think about all the options a character has and try to cover as many as you can. Like Marth can really only up+b, so be patient because they always try to trick you with side+b's but you know he's going to up+b so just wait for it and always expect it. If you show him that you're not letting go of the ledge, they'll up+b onto the stage which is a free rest unless you let him hit you with the up+b.

Just kind of rambling though. Puff is awesome at ledgeguarding, and how you do it should be situational. Just don't over-commit unless you know you're covering all of their options.

 

[_eternal]

Awesome, thanks. I'll get some practice in. Edgeguarding is too fun.

 

[Strong Badam]

ey guys you wanna know something about puff?

she's really gay

 

[Prince_Abu]

ey guys you wanna know something about puff?

she's really gay

i agree with this

 

[Krynxe]

Only puff and peach players can say puff is gay

It's offensive otherwise

 

[ShroudedOne]

I agree. We're the floaties that no one likes.

Also, nice avatar, Krynxe. =D

 

[Krynxe]

Heh, thanks Shrouded.

Yours look vaguely familiar. Was it from like Avatar or something? I can't quite recall.

 

[ShroudedOne]

omg krynxe

The Legend of Korra, the sequel series to Avatar: The Last Airbender. Starts April 14th. The person in my avatar is Korra, the main character.

 

[Krynxe]

Oh cool. I haven't watched cable in like a year or two so I'm a bit uninformed with american shows lol.

Avatar was definitely good, but the genre just isn't really my favorite. I did enjoy watching the show when it was on occasionally, but I only watched some scattered episodes tbh.

 

[ShroudedOne]

I'd highly recommend going to watch the entire series if you ever feel inclined/have the time. I'm sure you could find it on the interwebs somewhere.

 

[Republican0fHeaven]

Avatar was amazing. Just took a while to like the characters.

I haven't remembered to try "the mahone" yet against spacies >.< nairing usually works to cover alot of options.

My one friend who plays falco almost always immediately illusions to the edge when I back throw him (no jumping). I've found that this is a good time to do sing-ledgegrab hehe

 

[Krynxe]

Heh nice, I never go for sing ledgegrabs. I mean, I play puff. What is a tech skill? I don't know what that could possibly be.

 

[Republican0fHeaven]

No one ever expects it... I feel that is the only thing going for it tbh lol

It's like puff is close to the edge, then BAM she just appears hanging on the ledge. So cool, but Yoshi does it better.

Nonetheless, it IS the fastest way to get to the ledge from onstage.

I kinda feel like InsaneCarzyGuy trying to talk up Pichu when I bring it up >.<

 

[Krynxe]

Lol, I'd do it but I'm too scared to sing on stage and waste a ledgeguard opportunity or fall off and kill myself. I have it down with ~50% accuracy but that's still not enough. It might work to catch certain character going for the ledge when they see you facing offstage and assume you can't ledgehog them since you can't wd->ledgegrab. (Like Sheik or Pikachu, trying to sweetspot the ledge when they think it's safe and then you sing guard them.) Otherwise, Puff seems to have better options.

 

[Republican0fHeaven]

Yeah I totally agree with you that there are better options 98% of the time, and it's risky to do. Sometimes I am 100% with it and I never mess it up during a whole 5hr session. Other times, I am 70% with it and it costs me a stock >.<


But the only way to get it down is to try to do it in friendlies and that is what I am going to do. Makes me feel like there is some tech skill to this character lol and its actually a tougher thing to do than anything with fox imo (other than maybe triple shines).

I do it against mario and doc and sheik and falco (when falco tries to go for a quick sweetspot), but I def wanna give it a shot with Pikachu now... I don't play many Pikachus tho

 

[idea]

well...jiggs does have "tech skill"...but it's not about speed, it's about timing. if i play other characters for a while then go back to puff, i start messing stuff up, 'cause i try to wavedash out of shield immediately and end up rolling, or i try to jump and fair out of shield too quickly and end up shieldgrabbing. or wait...would that be jc grabbing out of shield? can you jc grab with R+A? whatever.

same with aerials, since she falls so slowly you'll often have slightly different l-cancel timings depending on what aerial you use, at what point in your jump, whether or not you fastfall it...

you can also learn edgecanceling, i've been doing that between stocks for a while now and i've started to find myself continuing combos with edgecanceled moves in tournament sets. plus it looks awesome.

 

[Republican0fHeaven]

Edgecanceling is AMAZING. Sometimes I will bair->edgecancel->bair against someone who will shield the first aerial (thinking it's coming for them) and then try to aerial OOS and get smacked in the face by a bair.

Sometimes I get a really delayed aerial after the edgecancel though... does this happen to anyone?????

And it seems like R+A should be able to be used for jc grabs... there's just no point in jumping cause you're already stationary in shield.

 

[Manatee]

I might have an odd request for help.

I've played with s2j and after getting wrecked over, the only advice he had for me was to play more gay. How do I do that? I play what many people consider a aggro puff. I've tried implementing more gayness but I just can't get it work. What do you guys suggest I do to amp up the homosexuality of my play?

Or maybe I'm just bad on the Falcon match up. Any advice would help.

 

[idea]

oh, i've got this one, that's exactly my problem. playing "gay" kind of disgusts me and as hard as i try i can't force myself to do it fully for more than like 2 matches, no matter how much i want to win. i'm starting to consider playing falco more seriously than i have before because i keep losing due to (on top of the other person's skill) insufficient gayness. but yeah, it's really good.

a lot of it boils down to that legendary piece of wisdom: "Don't get hit."

more specifically, don't make the first move very often. move only as close to him as you need to. i'm not saying go to one side and camp...in fact, that's often a bad idea, because that makes it harder for you to punish their mistakes.

but don't try to pressure frivolously. don't do anything unnecessary. don't make assumptions about what he's going to do, don't try to read him, just stay out of his range until he overextends himself then punish him for it with death.

vs. falcon specifically, be very conscious of his dash speed and dash dance range. "overextending" yourself is easy vs. a character who can leap halfway across the stage at a moment's notice. and his dash dance goes all over the place. you should be wary of committing to any moves to try to intercept it. what you really want is not to interrupt his dash dance, not to break through it heroically somehow, but just to wait for him to stop doing it. eventually he'll get bored and try to hit you with something. that's when you wavedash back, upthrow, and rest him when he techs in place on a platform. or something silly like that.

also, crouch, a lot. you mostly want to replace shield with crouch against falcon. he can't grab you, he has a hard time hitting you, you automatically CC stuff, you can even react to a lot of the things falcon does that actually do work against crouch...

that's my interpretation of what playing "gay" means...the least complicated strategies, the least commitment, the most reward. it's never "gay" when you make some great read or bust right through someone else's pressure. you want systematic, unfair, simple strategies.

other things people are likely to call "gay:" sheik dsmashing a lot. sheik techchasing you with grab over and over. hungrybox using bair a lot. marth edgeguarding you by waiting at the edge and fsmashing, covering most or all of a character's options. fox shine spiking anyone except jigglypuff. fox covering himself with shine after mis-spacing or missing an l-cancel.

jigglypuff using upthrow rest repeatedly. jigglypuff resting you on a platform. jigglypuff wavedashing back to backthrow to (a lot of the time) easy edgeguard. jigglypuff wavedashing back unpunishably in general. jigglypuff spacing at that perfect range so that you can't safely approach her OR safely laser camp her.

(some of these aren't necessarily easy to do, but you get the picture.)


if you post videos it's even easier. i played s2j in a bunch of friendlies at apex. i don't think i won any but a bunch of them were last stock. and he told me i didn't play gay either, except he meant it as a compliment lol. those were some of the most fun matches i had at apex.



edit: that said, i don't advocate playing completely "gay," but only a little bit. for me it helps to forget about "gay" vs. "legit" or whatever, and just focus on playing smarter. since jigglypuff is a slow character playing against fast characters, smart = "gay" fairly often, but if i'm concerned only with not playing stupidly then it's easier to reach a good compromise.

unfortunately, i end up doing stupid things really often anyway because i stop having fun if i don't, but then it's also not fun to lose repeatedly, which again is why i'm leaning more and more towards falco/other characters. these days i feel like i really understand how mango felt when he switched off puff.

 

[standardtoaster]

I might have an odd request for help.

I've played with s2j and after getting wrecked over, the only advice he had for me was to play more gay. How do I do that? I play what many people consider a aggro puff. I've tried implementing more gayness but I just can't get it work. What do you guys suggest I do to amp up the homosexuality of my play?

Or maybe I'm just bad on the Falcon match up. Any advice would help.

 

[idea]

lolll...forget what i said, just listen to this guy ^

 

[Krynxe]

Pretty sure adam just posted a tl;dr of your post, idea.

 

[Manatee]

I have the same problem as you Idea. Whenever I start to play campy, I just end up getting bored and going in again. I didn't realize playing campy was so hard. When I was playing s2j, I was having so much. Just going in and getting rests. Going campy is not fun, but it's always what everyone tells me I should start doing more.

I'll start bairing harder.

 

[idea]

yeah, you don't have to completely change your style, just augment it with patient smartness. there's a time for aggression too.

 

[_eternal]

Got a couple of questions if you guys don't mind:

- Is there a trick to uthrow rest on spacies or is it just a matter of timing? I know it needs a dj sometimes. I land it reliably against CPUs but sometimes I randomly miss against humans and I can't tell if I'm messing up or if there's some subtle DI or something else going on. It feels like sometimes the throw sends them slightly off to the side.

- What's the point of pounding spacies at mid percent (say, 30-60) on the ground or out of a sh near the center of the stage? I rewatched Hbox vs Javi at Apex 2012 and he seemed to go for it a lot. I guess it forces a techchase but doesn't Puff not get much from techchases anyhow?

 

[idea]

yeah sometimes they go slightly to the side and it's hard to see. just watch carefully. usually i double jump too. it makes it easier to time and easier to correct for weird DI.

yeah pound often forces them to tech, which is great, puff actually can techchase reasonably well, you just don't have time to hesitate at all...but pound is in general just a good mix-up. it kind of destabilizes them when it hits. and it stays out for a long time and has weird priority, so it's easy to get caught in it accidentally.

if they DI in you can rest them out of it...

edit: oh by the way, almost never use pound, it's slow and predictable.

 

[Krynxe]

Also, if you just keep doing the same aerials they'll wait and trying to figure out your patterns. If you random pound at them, they'll get really confused and scared to approach and it just generally helps you stay in control of the match. Do do it too much because usmash punish hurts

 

[Massive]

edit: oh by the way, almost never use pound, it's slow and predictable.

Also, if you just keep doing the same aerials they'll wait and trying to figure out your patterns. If you random pound at them, they'll get really confused and scared to approach and it just generally helps you stay in control of the match. Do do it too much because usmash punish hurts

I third this. A few well placed pounds in a match is fine as a changeup, but if they start expecting the pound it's pretty easy to exchange that for some usmash tokens.

I started doing random jabs every time i felt the urge to use pound.
It's pretty hilarious to see how disoriented a fox can get when he gets nudged out what he thought was the safety dance.

 

[idea]

don't ever jump up from the edge and pound onstage. that's the clearest sign i'm not paying any attention to what i'm doing lol