Data Mah0ne's Stuff about Puff

[Tekk]

Not yet, I'm pretty swamped atm, but it's on the list. =)
Will probably watch it sometime this week, I'll let you know.

Puff stuff: I think I should write something to keep this thread going
I'm working on something about falco and samus.

 

[King5280]

samus would be good. midwest is full of them. i really struggle with ic's too.. together they hit sooo ****ing hard.

 

[BairJew]

mods are conspiring against more puffs becoming good.

This is slowly becoming more and more clear.

Puff stuff: I think I should write something to keep this thread going
I'm working on something about falco and samus.

about falco and samus.

samus.

yes. So many in Central Fl that when they arrive its a term called "Migration of the Sami".

 

[Krynxe]

Tekk do you want to be the new OP for this thread?

I talked to Mahone, he said he was fine with it.

 

[Republican0fHeaven]

Def for tekk OPing this thread.

Now for two kinda dumb ideas:

1. Making a Jiggz youtube vid on basics or mu's

2. Is it theoretically possible to be invinceable with sing ledgegrab -> immediately ledgestandup -> sing ledgegrab-> repeat????

I know the ledge can be stolen, but if someone were to do that, they'd have to get past an invinceable puff.

 

[idea]

i've been meaning to use skype chat for a while anyway only really have one friend on it atm

what if pp had called your bluff? you would have had to go find it, and since you live in USA your house would be full of navy seals in 2 seconds. 3 if they want to keep the roof intact.

alsoooo the next time i have motivation i can some sort of...guide or...matchup thing or...something along those lines. but i have other stuff i want to do first, on top of school work...for me and tekk and everyone else who answers stuff intelligently, it's probably easier if someone poses a specific question to the thread.

actually what would be even better is if anyone feels like going through the mang0 thread and finding past posts. but that sounds boring as hell. i wouldn't do it if i were you

 

[Krynxe]

@RoH
For #2, no not at all

Puff's quick getup lasts 33 frames, and she becomes vulnerable on frame 31 leaving no room for abuse, you'll always be vulnerable for 3 frames after a quick getup.

Also, even if you buffered this perfectly you'd need 1 frame to turn around, 3-4 frames to dash off the stage, and iirc it takes 12-13 frames of falling before you ledgegrab when doing a sing ledgegrab. That's 16-18 frames that you're vulnerable, plus the 3 frames that will always be tied to the getup attack, leaving you with vulnerable for about a whole third of a second.

Also, Puff's ledgehop is too slow to even think about doing anything like this lol.

It was a good thought though, RoH

 

[boomrested]

actually what would be even better is if anyone feels like going through the mang0 thread and finding past posts. but that sounds boring as hell. i wouldn't do it if i were you

The pikachu boards have/had a thread like this, kind of a knowledge compendium with just tons of info from all knowledgeable puff players. I could do one for puff, it would take a long time, and then get it stickied and have this knowledge database for new puff players. Give me a month or so, because I'm busy with school, and in that time I'll get posts from Mang0, King, Hungrybox, and all you fellas here on the puff boards now. Only if it gets stickied though, it would be cool to get into the MBR for that.

 

[Krynxe]

You wouldn't get into the MBR for copying other people's posts lol. MBR is actually really strict.

Feel more than free to go through any of the old threads and search away for information, feel more than free to post whatever you find interesting here and start discussion. I would actually really encourage that.

No offense though, but I think you might lack the puff knowledge to really go as far as making a whole database for new players, being a newer player yourself. I'm really not trying to shoot you down, but a lot of the older posts (king, mango, etc) are extremely outdated, so you might have trouble determining what is actually still valid/useful and what's really not.

I think if we just dig around and start up discussion, we can get some up-to-date information with input from all of us and update the op with what we find. Sound good?

Edit: Also, I'm taking control of the OP. Tekk, or any other puff, if you have anything you want to be added just PM me. ^_^

 

[Republican0fHeaven]

@RoH
For #2, no not at all

Puff's quick getup lasts 33 frames, and she becomes vulnerable on frame 31 leaving no room for abuse, you'll always be vulnerable for 3 frames after a quick getup.

Also, even if you buffered this perfectly you'd need 1 frame to turn around, 3-4 frames to dash off the stage, and iirc it takes 12-13 frames of falling before you ledgegrab when doing a sing ledgegrab. That's 16-18 frames that you're vulnerable, plus the 3 frames that will always be tied to the getup attack, leaving you with vulnerable for about a whole third of a second.

Also, Puff's ledgehop is too slow to even think about doing anything like this lol.

It was a good thought though, RoH

Haha thanks Krynxe for the info and data... I have been obsessed with the sing ledgegrab for the past few months and have always been looking for ways to make it more applicable. It seems so fast when I do the quick getup and back to sing ledgegrab. Guess its not quick enough tho...

Im not gonna give up on it! EVERRR!

ALso, regarding boom's post... MBR is super super strict. Did you look at some of the denied applications? (yes you have to fill out a huge application and it usually gets denied the first time)

BUT, I do personally like your idea about compiling the stuff. Krynxe, Idea, Tekk, Hbox, and everyone else can point out errors and quickly fix them. Am I right? OR am I right? lol

<3 puff community...

I was going through a really hard time 6 months ago and I almost switched my main to ICs. I hit rock bottom. Thank god for you guys that I'm still here to tell the tale. =P

 

[idea]

i want to read every detailed post from king and mango <_<

well and hbox, but he just keeps doing that mango thing, showing up saying three words and leaving.

 

[Republican0fHeaven]

He's busy with super secret ylink training school

 

[Tekk]

Edit: Also, I'm taking control of the OP. Tekk, or any other puff, if you have anything you want to be added just PM me. ^_^

Haha I was getting psyched becoming in charge of the OP, but whatever =)

i've been meaning to use skype chat for a while anyway only really have one friend on it atm

Add me! marvellouspenguins
actually anyone who feels like asking me stuff should add me, I often give advice to LzR that way

So yeah, I'll work on a samus writeup based on my experience vs Cyr and Fauster asap

 

[-LzR-]

Haha I was getting psyched becoming in charge of the OP, but whatever =)

I was looking forward to it too. You deserve it but it doesn't really matter who runs the stuff though.

Add me! marvellouspenguins
actually anyone who feels like asking me stuff should add me, I often give advice to LzR that way

And what amazing advice you give, if it wasn't for you, I would have quit a long time ago for not being able to improve much.

 

[Krynxe]

No I agree, Tekk deserves it. I'll give him the op, because I feel like he'll actually do something with it whereas I'm a bit too lazy, lol.

Also, you guys can add me on skype: Krynxe

I'm adding you right now, Tekk.

 

[Tekk]

Thanks Krynxe

 

[Warhawk]

Poor Mahone

 

[BairJew]

Can't wait to read that samus write-up, having problems with that mu for some reason.
Honestly seems like Tekk and Krynxe are gonna be the ones who take the Puff boards by storm.
Don't know you guys very well at all but you seem like chill dedicated people, awesome stuff guys!

 

[idea]

umm some things about samus...

- paaaaatience.
- you can jump way out there to edgeguard her, what's she gonna do about it?
- grab is good, mostly because she has to shield a lot and grabbing her forces her off the ground/puts you in more control
- bair is good. SURPRISE SURPRISE. few characters can effectively deal with bair's range. samus is not one of them.
- (still, samus has great ground mobility with her wavedash, so don't bair predictably. in fact you mainly want to bair in the area she might be trying to wavedash into.)
- fair and nair are not...awful...but not terribly good either. she can crouch cancel them. weaving in and out with nair still works, though...just don't land on the ground with nair still out, it probably won't turn out well.
- you can rest a lot of her moves out of shield. really almost all of them, if she misspaces badly enough, but it's easiest with dsmash and dash attack. don't throw out rest too haphazardly, though, since she can dair to charge shot you.
- watch out for uptilt, it cuts past bair by coming from above it. kind of like that thing with peach's fsmash. to counter this you should probably use paaaatience.

 

[Republican0fHeaven]

stage advice for the mu?

 

[Krynxe]

Yep yep, I learned a lot about this matchup myself having a really good samus player in the PR here.

You pretty much hit all the big points there Idea, just a few small/advanced points to add:
- Dair is surprisingly really good in this matchup, they cause Samus to flip really easily so you can easily follow up with grabs. (dair by ledge, bthrow, etc)
- To add onto that, remember that Samus isn't scary at close range. She'll only up+b and they're usually scared to do that because puff can punish hard and has such a small hitbox.
- To put the two things above together, dairing and landing behind samus is really good because there's nothing Samus can do. Crouch right when you land and go for the jc grab or just wait for the up+b and punish it. The smartest options for Samus would usually be to wd away oos or spotdodge (reading your grab) so be prepared for both of those.
- Also, very importantly, watch out for charge shot. If Samus has her charge shot and is distant from you, they're fishing to shoot you. When puff is in the air, she's helpless because she can't land or float above it quick enough. Don't throw out random aerials when you jump unless they're safe or will hit, so you can always airdodge. Try to stay grounded and approach with WDs and stuff, charge shot is seriously a threat if you aren't looking out for it.

Hope that helped. Also, for stages, definitely BF is a great choice due to it limiting Samus' recovery and just generally making gimping her much easier. FD is pretty good because Samus doesn't have the mobility to get around you so you can pressure her by the edge, but you have to be good at dealing with her spam. DL64 is half and half, Samus never dies there but neither do you. Puff can go out there and gimp Samus' recovery so it's not all that bad. Imo, Yoshi's is pretty bad as always, Stadium is really bad (I ban it) and FoD is probably in favor of Samus because she can abuse the lower platforms much easier and recover easily.

 

[idea]

i don't really know. um...not stadium. she can do that platform missile thing too easily there.

with that possible exception, i can't think of any stage where samus has an advantage over jiggs. yoshi's is probably the least safe choice since you die sooner, but it also gives her less room to move around. and she dies sooner too, especially to rest, which she can't punish THAT well to begin with. also, since the stage is small, she spends more time offstage, and she sucks at that. least SAFE, but definitely not bad.

samus' uptilt and dsmash are scarier on FoD when the platforms are low, but i don't think it affects the matchup much.

i would probably try to go to a neutral stage like battlefield the first match, then choose counterpicks/bans based on how the samus played. but i mean, even a proficiently campy samus will lose to jigglypuff on dreamland. i kinda like yoshi's in the matchup. this really seems like a "play it by ear" case.

 

[Krynxe]

Ninja'd
Glad we had mostly the same consensus there though. I never really considered Yoshi's for this MU because it lets Samus kill with dtilt and iirc her utilt goes through the platforms really well there. Also, edgeguarding samus is risky because she dangles so low with her beam so fairing her would kill you before you can jump and she can sit down there and wait for the cloud if she really needs to. Plus with dsmash killing easily there, I wouldn't ever go there. I wouldn't ban it sooner than FoD or stadium, though.

 

[boomrested]

Jigglypuff: Tekk shows how to Wreck. <---New thread title?

 

[Krynxe]

Mahone did make the op and everything, I think he should still be credited.

like "Stuff about Puff, feat. Tekk, Idea, etc. (R.I.P. Mahone)"

lol

 

[idea]

heh i always find reasons to go to yoshi's, it's my favourite of the legal stages also i tend to want faster matches, especially against characters like samus.

you don't have to go all the way down to edgeguard her when she grapples to the side of the stage. just wait for any sign of movement and fair her somewhere in the middle as she gets pulled up. once it lowers her down she can only be pulled straight up. this is a good time for that strong reverse fair edgeguard thing i always talk about.

but for edgeguarding i mostly meant horizontally. she spends most of her recovery time bouncing off her own bombs toward the stage, and she's completely vulnerable when she's doing it.

 

[Krynxe]

Yeah, I knew what you meant there. Messing up Samus' bomb jumping is really good. The grapple thing was just something specific to Yoshi's, she's just a bit harder to edgeguard there for that. Which is why I like battlefield, because Puff can always go out and mess up her horizontal recovery and battlefield makes it terribly difficult to grapple recovery without getting stage spiked or something.

But yeah, you're right. Also, idk how a puff cause like Yoshi's the most lol. Masochist >.>

 

[King5280]

i like to use fair instead of pound when recovering, unless im below the stage for some weird reason, cause it has less lag and eating a missle or charge shot during pound lag straight up sucks. her missles can hit jiggs pretty hard.

 

[Krynxe]

I went ahead and did a few things. I locked/unstickied Mang0's thread due to it being outdated. I edited the thread title to let people know that this is a Puff MU thread and not a social thread. I also added a link to Mango's thread in the op and threw in Mahone's name on the top to still credit him for this thread. I might refine the op a bit sometime, because it's rather unorganized. Tekk, feel free to add or change anything that you feel is necessary. ^_^

 

[ShroudedOne]

I like what you've done with the place, Krynxe. Good job. =D

 

[_eternal]

Hm, how does fair work for recovery? Gives you more horizontal movement or something?

 

[Krynxe]

Ty Shrouded. :3

I might be making a new puff guide soon too. Just a simple one to replace the really outdated Jigglypuff 101 guide and a place for beginners to pick up the basics before moving onto this thread - which discusses more advanced things and MUs (which doesn't help someone who doesn't understand the basics.)

Revival of puff!

Here's what I got for the guide so far:
[COLLAPSE="Obviously"]

[/COLLAPSE]

Edit: I've heard that using aerials like fair and uair immediately following your jumps removes the jump decay that Puff gets from each jump before landing. I have no no idea if this is actually true, and have no evidence to support or disprove it. I'll get around to testing it soon. I personally just use raising pounds, which is clearly effective for an improved - yet slower - recovery.

 

[Republican0fHeaven]

Yes!

We def should update the Jiggs basics. Nice! When I got on here I was concerned with learning stupid stuff and I am just now beginning to master the basics >.< (I still have dumb ideas every now and then)

Good Job Krynxe!

Let me know if there is anything I can do. Notice in my bair chains thread how I put some focus on the different aerial spacial mobility (such as the weave) stuff that you should be able to do with bairs.

And I am kinda confused on what you mean by jump decay? But I was under the impression that doing any aerial other than dair and nair can prolong horizontal recovery (if you hit them right after you hit jump).

 

[idea]

lololololol

 

[Strong Badam]

DJ -> aerial gets more distance with Puff/Kirby than just normal DJ. It's Strong Bad Truthified.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c47OcDjjqwk

 

[KrIsP!]

Yes, I have heard that uair at least removes jump decay. I have no clue if this is true bu ti thought it was just from hearing it. Anyways, really glad to hear this surge of puff love. Mahone's self banning obviously got a message out.

 

[Strong Badam]

It's Uair, nair, bair, dair, fair, sideb.

 

[Krynxe]

Good to know.

And RoH by jump decay I mean like for each jump you do in a single air time, less height is gained than from the previous jump. This is extremely noticeable in ssb64. Like your 5th jump won't be as good as your 3rd jump, for instance.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

So the other thread got locked and i didnt even know this one existed. Sup puff boards

 

[-LzR-]

Good to know.

And RoH by jump decay I mean like for each jump you do in a single air time, less height is gained than from the previous jump. This is extremely noticeable in ssb64. Like your 5th jump won't be as good as your 3rd jump, for instance.

No wonder why pounding after every jump seems to "give you more rise" even though the pound just stalls you in the air. Good to know actually.