Data Mah0ne's Stuff about Puff

[idea]

Don't teach sheiks the mu! Tr3mor learned from your hbox videos and now he keeps owning me. So much easier when sheiks are in the dark.

post videos so we can tell you how to beat him back

stelzig: yeah i feel you. i remember a set with someone's puff they kept throwing out spaced fairs at a height where it kept stuffing my fair. eventually i forced one through but i took like 70%. and after the match (i got a big lead earlier so i won via grinding out a fair for every like 2-4 i took lol <_<) i thought about the angle and was just like "wow i'm dumb why didn't i just bair? herp derp." and then i realized i still wasn't good at super smash bros melee for the nintendo gamecube.

the end.

was this back when i could still hit you with fairs (stupid crouch cancel)? or was it kurtis or something

 

[Massive]

Massive: As eagle said, the power of Fair should be the same. Witness the massive european DI (or something...), lol. I thought I had won after that last Fair too, but alas... Wasn't enough

Comment rescinded, then. I should've known better anyway, since I'll usually DI at those % out of a throw to eat a fair instead of an uair anyway.

I have noticed the most annoying thing in the sheik matchup is that jiggs can't recover low at all because of how well bair works from ledgehog as a ledgeguard, it's arguably the best bair in the game in that regard. But you've already been told to bair more, so that likely implied already.

 

[Tekk]

lol she's like puff's easiest matchup among the top tiers

I got 99 problems but a sheik ain't one

yes the sole purpose of this post is to land that pun

 

[Massive]

Tip my bair to the cloud in the west
Feel the needle in my chest
At the crossroads a second time
Make the ninja change her mind.
Its a moment of rest but it helps a ton
99 problems and a Sheik ain’t one

If you’re havin’ smash problems I feel bad for you son
I got 99 problems and a Sheik ain’t one
99 problems
But a Sheik ain’t one.

 

[Mahone]

99 nationals and a sheik aint won

 

[KirbyKaze]

I'm working on it.

 

[JonnyW]

Last 4 posts are hilarious.

 

[KrIsP!]

^agreed, I'm still laughing

 

[_eternal]

Stupid question but do people normally use the c-stick for Puff aerials? Feels weird to use it with full hops but maybe I'm just not used to it.

 

[Krynxe]

People do use c-stick with puff, but idk how frequent it is amongst puff players. Whatever is most comfortable for you, use.

Personally, I use A only for rising full hop aerials and c-stick for everything else.

 

[King5280]

i use z for most aerials and c stick if i do a retreating aerial.

 

[BairJew]

In context of stupid questions, idk if I was intoxicated or under the effects of hallucinogens but is Roy mad good against puff?

 

[Krynxe]

In context of stupid questions, idk if I was intoxicated or under the effects of hallucinogens but is Roy mad good against puff?

Lol no, not at all. Given that puffs generally have ease fighting Marths, and Roy lacks the few tools Marth can use to effectively beat a puff (throw->tippers, good aeriel combos, etc) plus has a significantly worse recovery than Marth, It'd be safe to say that Roy is not good against Puff.

I don't particularly have any MU experience with Roy though. You can check the Roy boards if you're really interesting, lol.

 

[RyeJew]

In context of stupid questions, idk if I was intoxicated or under the effects of hallucinogens but is Roy mad good against puff?

Besides a 1hko with reverse blazer on a missed rest or shield stab, he doesn't have much going for him.

 

[BairJew]

Lol no, not at all. Given that puffs generally have ease fighting Marths, and Roy lacks the few tools Marth can use to effectively beat a puff (throw->tippers, good aeriel combos, etc) plus has a significantly worse recovery than Marth, It'd be safe to say that Roy is not good against Puff.

I don't particularly have any MU experience with Roy though. You can check the Roy boards if you're really interesting, lol.

haha yeah i'll try that, it was a goofy mu and i was gettin ***** by uairs and fair juggling which should never happen, so I was probably playing really poor and approaching too much.

Besides a 1hko with reverse blazer on a missed rest or shield stab, he doesn't have much going for him.

and yeah I was getting destroyedddd by dthrow fsmash which means my DI was horrendous, so I was probably doing something whack like DIng in repeatedly instead of away, it was mostly cheese lol

 

[Krynxe]

Yeah by the sound of it, you should work on your DI for sure.

And given that patience wins the Marth MU, I'd be patient with Roy too. Never underestimate a low tier player.

 

[Keblerelf]

If you DI roy's reverse BLAZER it won't kill you.

 

[Krynxe]

Oh yeah, I forgot about that bullcrap reverse up+b Roy has on Puff.

Do you SDI it Kebler?

 

[idea]

depends on percentage and stage. i think from the middle of yoshi's roy's sweetspot reverse up-b kills you above 2% regardless of DI. not sure because lol i'm not gonna waste my time testing that.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Reverse Up+B has set KB based on weight so percent doesn't matter. DI does. Except on YS, where CC is all that matters.

Be thankful he can't f-throw --> force tech --> death combo your character like he can with Pichu and GnW on YS. D-tilt --> reverse up+B too strong.

 

[idea]

really? i remember getting hit by it with the right hitbox on yoshi's at 0 and it didn't kill me. don't think i CC'd either.

 

[Krynxe]

Yeah, but banning yoshi's vs Roy is a given - as puff.

Interesting to know it's set kb though. I'll have to see how it looks on stadium for puff.

 

[Mahone]

really? i remember getting hit by it with the right hitbox on yoshi's at 0 and it didn't kill me. don't think i CC'd either.

well it does have set knockback, but you possibly sdi'd it or some weird ****, or more likely, the roy didn't hit it sweetspotted

 

[BairJew]

Id be interested to see when reverse up-b kills on poke as well. I'm guessing the up-b OoS ***** puff when she's trying to applying shield pressure.

 

[Krynxe]

Luckily puff can apply shield pressure from the other side of the stage. :3

I tested this, and getting a reverse up+b doesn't kill unless you do it correctly. It's hard to mess up, but it seems like if the Roy gets multiple hits than it reduces the knockback a bit. I did a messed-up reverse up+b on puff on while on the right platform on Yoshi's and it still didn't kill. When done correctly, it can potentially kill on every neutral stage. This was tested on bots without proper DI, and on BF/FoD you have to be on at least the side platforms (risen slightly on FoD) for it to kill, and you have to be on the top platform on DL64 for it to kill. It can kill from the floor on YS, FD, and also PS.

 

[King5280]

is roy the new young link...?

 

[Krynxe]

But Puff will be the one running from Roy

Puff is the new Ylink; Roy is the new puff with his scary one-hit kill

I don't even...

 

[King5280]

this is a terrifying turn of events.

 

[KrIsP!]

Don't tell anyone what we've learned here today.

 

[Republican0fHeaven]

well it does have set knockback, but you possibly sdi'd it or some weird ****, or more likely, the roy didn't hit it sweetspotted

I bet the Roy missed the sweet spot cause I played a Roy that took 3 stocks off me on PS from the floor before I did more than 25% to him (I missed a rest on 2nd stock). I definitely was sdi'ing left/right or down too. So unless you have to sdi up for some reason to avoid it....

The sweetspot is deadly for puffs.

I ended up winning that match last stock high percent lolol that move is horrible.

I feel like being a spacie getting upthrown by Jiggz when it happens

 

[genkaku]

why do puffs uair while recovering?

 

[Krynxe]

What do you guys think about a captain falcon playing extremely campy vs puff?

I had this falcon player in brackets recently, but after I landed two consecutive rests on him first round (he was being too aggro so it was easy to fish for utilts) he got really campy. I started getting a bit impatience with him, so he got a couple of easy knees on me - which made him think that his camping strategy was effective. I won first round with 2 or 3 stocks, and banned PS because I figured Yoshi's wouldn't be too bad since he would be forced to camp far less than he was on DL. Then he camps the top platform the entire round, coming down only to hit and run or follow up. I got annoyed and impatient so he took that match - which encouraged him to further camp. By the third round, on BF (in retrospect I wish I counterpicked FD), he was not even approaching me at all and camped the top platform the entire match. After I was on my last stock, I decided to start being way more patient and play it safe. I got him to his last stock, and we were both running all over the place trying not to get hit as the counter ran down. I won by 3%, timing him out.

My advice, remember that Falcon doesn't have a gun and be extremely patient if they decide to play this way. I haven't experienced this before from a Falcon, but it's definitely interesting to deal with. If they're camping just stay close and keep them scared, punish anything they do. Think a step ahead, if they're on a platform, remember that they can't really run anywhere effectively so expect them to drop down uair or something. Just try to cover their exit option and wait for them to try to escape, don't go in unless you have to. And for the love of god don't do what they want you to do.

Edit:
@Genkaku: Define "recovering." Some might do it for no particular reason, just waving to the crowd. If they're recovering low, they might be trying to catch someone being greedy.

 

[FoxLisk]

why do puffs uair while recovering?

because mango does it

 

[idea]

i fair a lot when i'm recovering. makes me feel like i'm doing something. i just want visual confirmation that i can move and press buttons again.

if falcon's camping the top platform...well, almost always in melee, staying in one place is a bad idea. you probably could have baited him to do something predictable after a while. like, space bairs 3 times, then wavedash up there and grab him, or uptilt behind his shield. not being able to run around cuts down his options.

upair sounds like the obvious choice, but in practice it's kinda slow, and people tend to either shield it or, in falcon's case, stomp through it. but you beat him in horizontal range. so i would just do what i said above, bair until he starts shielding predictably.

actually knowing me, i would go up there with multiple fairs and hope for the best.

also yeah falcons tend to play the jiggs matchup mediumly campy, and go for guess/read knees every now and then. except s2j, he just attacks you and it's awesome

 

[KirbyKaze]

Jigglypuff and Kirby have momentum decay built into their double jumps so attacking while you DJ gives you more distance (or height? I forget if it's one, the other, or both).

 

[Krynxe]

Yeah, in my situation if I tried to uair through the platform I usually got stomped and when I tried to fight him horizontal he'd drop through the platform uair or run the other way - either way getting under me which isn't good. I just did my best to control the stage and lock him where he was, punishing him as he tried to run. Once I would get him, I could usually follow up a decent amount and stay on his *** long enough to do enough damage before he went back to camping.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Wait longer than him. You only need one good exchange to kill him.

 

[Krynxe]

Yep. Just as I said above, falcon can't pop caps. You can wait all day if you need to. xD Definitely don't get impatient in this situation, that's obviously what they want.

 

[idea]

upair is still good though, you just need to bait a double jump and upair them out of it.

 

[knightpraetor]

i really miss roy's dtilt reverse up+b..that was fun...

you still lose, but the matches go by so much faster

lol i'm a page late, whatever