Data Mah0ne's Stuff about Puff

[Republican0fHeaven]

So let's say you are in the middle of battlefield, you dthrow peach, and she DIs in front of you onto the platform.... how would you position yourself?

The last time I did this, I guessed that she would tech in place (which she did like Idea said she would) and I tried to rest immediately but she got her shield up.

So is my problem that Im not jumping after the dsmash fast enough, or that its really tough to do when you're in the middle of the stage??

Also, for players that don't tech in place as often... should I try to read them by positioning myself with the tech-away option (toward the outside of the stage) or the tech-back towards me option? (Cause going for the tech-away option to rest runs the risk that they get their shield up).

These questions are primarily directed to floaty opponents

 

[ShroudedOne]

I'M gonna be the Puff slayer, ShroudedOne. Just stop.

No, me. You stop.

 

[Krynxe]

When I dthrow someone on a platform, usually I'll do it once or twice and simply waveland grab them or just bair them and try to set up a wop. After that, I'll feel more confident in how they will tech and go for rests. If you're playing someone less experienced, though, it's very likely they'll tech away so positioning yourself between the middle and the outside of the platform lets you cover the two most likely option, while being able to bair them through the platform if they do tech towards the middle.

 

[FoxLisk]

Also, for players that don't tech in place as often... should I try to read them by positioning myself with the tech-away option (toward the outside of the stage) or the tech-back towards me option? (Cause going for the tech-away option to rest runs the risk that they get their shield up).

These questions are primarily directed to floaty opponents

at the point where you've identified that they dont usually tech in place on platforms, why cant you just pay attention and figure out if they're going to tech away or tech towards?

 

[idea]

So is my problem that Im not jumping after the dsmash fast enough, or that its really tough to do when you're in the middle of the stage??

yeah, pretty much. i don't think you're 100% guaranteed to be able to get there in time for all combinations of character/stage/speed of jumping out of dthrow.

also, peach can often double jump and not have to tech a lot of them don't seem to know this.

Also, for players that don't tech in place as often... should I try to read them by positioning myself with the tech-away option (toward the outside of the stage) or the tech-back towards me option? (Cause going for the tech-away option to rest runs the risk that they get their shield up).

uhh i kinda agree with foxlisk, it's good to just try to read them at that point. people are scared when they have to tech somewhere on a platform vs. jigglypuff so they tend to make panicky/bad decisions.

but there are other patterns too...just like with teching anywhere else, sometimes you can read people's tech decision based on their DI beforehand. for instance, a lot of people will DI away, to get as far as they can to one side of the platform, and then tech in the other direction.

other times they'll DI slightly one way, end up a bit offset from the middle, and tech to the other side...i think this happens when you're more below the platform and they don't want to DI all the way past it and end up offstage. it's the same psychological motivation as the above one though.

although, it just occurred to me i usually do something smarter anyway
> cover the option of teching in place in the cases people usually do that, and in any other case, try to cover the tech-toward-middle-of-stage option. people don't like to tech to the closer-to-edge-of-stage side of the platform because then you can just react and fair/bair them and probably hit them offstage. and they're right. so don't cover that one unless you're pretty sure they'll go there, since you can react to it and possibly get a chance to edgeguard anyway.

 

[Republican0fHeaven]

Yes like Foxlisk said, I should probably try to learn their patterns. I just worry that I can't get there in time to rest the tech away option.

But your idea makes great sense in that I should cover the tech in place and tech to the middle option because these give me more time to react cause I can get there sooner. If they miss the tech, I can jab reset. If they tech away, I have them offstage with an aerial.

Good stuff

And the peach I fight actually does doublejump out of downthrow at higher percents quite often. Should I ever consider reading this by jumping up there right after the dthrow and trying a rest during the startup of their dj (you know how it dips down for a moment)...??

On another note when fox/falco/falcon/sheik (maybe marth) get dthrowed by jiggz, sometimes I can rest them. If they DI behind Jiggz, do they basically end up above her ?(I know that not DIing at all sends them in a perfect place for a rest.

 

[FoxLisk]

And the peach I fight actually does doublejump out of downthrow at higher percents quite often. Should I ever consider reading this by jumping up there right after the dthrow and trying a rest during the startup of their dj (you know how it dips down for a moment)...??

that would be pimp as **** but honestly they should probably just be nairing.

 

[idea]

actually if they miss the tech, it's the same timing as if they tech in place. the timing windows overlap.

uhh i'm not sure...i don't think you can DI all the way above jiggs' head while still in stun. but yeah, sometimes you can rest right out of dthrow, if they DI toward you at low enough percents. sheiks hate that lolol

 

[Krynxe]

dthrow sends them essentially straight up. You mean if they don't DI at all. And the dthrow animation lasts so long, it's pretty rare to find someone who doesn't DI it.

 

[KrIsP!]

I'm having trouble with rising pound, not doing it. I can do that, but doing multiple ones in rapid succession to actually go up. ATM my jiggs falls a little bit before the second one comes out and I'm stuck perpetually in the same spot no matter how many times I use a rising pound...actually I've tried practicing it alone and go farther down from doing it multiple times.

Here's my explanation just to not make me feel terrible, currently using a DLP tv with component cables which is terrible since I'm basically playing in 480p and my inputs are a good 1/4 second off or something according to the internet. Just wanted to make sure that all you have to do to use rising pound to recover is do it multiple times, there isn't some cancel before the second one starts. I fairly certain this is the case since I've literally mashed B while the first pound was happening and couldn't get the second one out in time, so it can't be my hands can it?

 

[Massive]

Rising pound doesn't actually climb on it's own.
You can stay nearly stationary for a long time but you are always losing tiny amounts of altitude.

It does stop your downward momentum though, so doing a rising pound > jump is a good way to get vertical height.

 

[FoxLisk]

Rising pound doesn't actually climb on it's own.
You can stay nearly stationary for a long time but you are always losing tiny amounts of altitude.

It does stop your downward momentum though, so doing a rising pound > jump is a good way to get vertical height.

...are you sure?

you know continuous rising pound is banned as a stalling technique, right? im pretty sure you can not lose any height.

 

[Krynxe]

Rising pound gives you verticle height, but you lose that height by the time you next rising pound comes out with no net gain and a tiny loss of height, therefore able to be used to stall when you're already really high or under the stage for a limited amount of time. Your jump comes out much quicker than your pound, which is why rising pound->jump->repeat gives you more net height than just jumping.

 

[Mahone]

...are you sure?

you know continuous rising pound is banned as a stalling technique, right? im pretty sure you can not lose any height.

naw magus disproved it... u lose a VERY small amount of height each time, but its still good enough to stall which is why its banned

 

[FoxLisk]

naw magus disproved it... u lose a VERY small amount of height each time, but its still good enough to stall which is why its banned

oh, didnt know that. word.

 

[KrIsP!]

Rising pound doesn't actually climb on it's own.
You can stay nearly stationary for a long time but you are always losing tiny amounts of altitude.

It does stop your downward momentum though, so doing a rising pound > jump is a good way to get vertical height.

I see, someone had told me you could use it to simply go up. So far I've been using it with jumps but I wasn't able to use one after anothe rwithout losing some height. Thanks a lot, I though tI was doing it wrong...or my tv was.

 

[Tekk]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJNlVjFyN7s&feature=g-all-u&context=G207b447FAAAAAAAAAAA#t=24m

be sure to watch it til the end
oskar is the homiieee

 

[Massive]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJNlVjFyN7s&feature=g-all-u&context=G207b447FAAAAAAAAAAA#t=24m

be sure to watch it til the end
oskar is the homiieee

At first I was all "WTF, HOW IS JIGGLYPUFF STILL ALIVE" and then I realized PAL.

 

[Mahone]

Shoula ubd to the right... I woulda...

Not impressed.

 

[stelzig]

You don't think I would've died in 3 seconds? I'm not jigglypuff, I actually have decent fallspeed, lol. Besides, I was quite confident that I would win by not getting star KO'd in time (which you can probably see in the crowd reaction). I was talking about doing some zelda stuff afterwards, but yeah whatever

Screw puff

Massive: You make it sound like it would be easy to get a grab on puff either way. I suppose a strong Uair would be nice for this matchup, but I don't see why that percentage is so unusual. but I probably just suck =L

 

[idea]

wouldn't you have lost anyway by having the higher percent?

 

[stelzig]

Sorry for not realising that rest would deal enough percentage for him to get a 3% lead. Even if you ask me now I wouldn't know how much damage rest deals, and at that moment it didn't even pass my mind that it was a possibilty, since I had already completely written off losing by percentage after I got a 52% lead with 15 seconds left >_>

Of course you are absolutely right though. Cause that is exactly what happened.

 

[_Rocky_]

wouldn't you have lost anyway by having the higher percent?

No it went to time lol

 

[Mahone]

Lol stelzig, i was just joking man

 

[idea]

oh, okay, i thought you meant you were sure you'd win AFTER being rested.

rocky: yeah, if it goes to time, person with lower percent wins, right? or is it different in your region?

 

[_Rocky_]

oh, okay, i thought you meant you were sure you'd win AFTER being rested.

rocky: yeah, if it goes to time, person with lower percent wins, right? or is it different in your region?

more stocks and then lower percent decides who wins in timeouts yeah lol

this is kinda funny in the context lol www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pFGbZLaslw#t=11m17s

 

[stelzig]

oh, okay, i thought you meant you were sure you'd win AFTER being rested.

I did not look at the percent, I was purely focused on wether I would go into star KO animation or not. The guy jumping at the end is me because I thought I won when it went to time.

Mahone: Fair enough

 

[idea]

wtf are people doing that jigglypuff vs. character keeps going to time O_O

my matches rarely go over 4 minutes.

 

[ShroudedOne]

It's people whining about how gay Puff is...

...

...

While camping her.

(Obviously, Canada is more sensible)

 

[Oskar]

This is my greatest triumph

 

[stelzig]

I have absolutely no problem with puff (I have more hate towards falco, but really, I don't really ever seriously whine about characters). But I most certainly will not run into her. Maybe I would if I wasn't playing against a puff that will glady wait for me if I don't outcamp her, but I can assure you that Oskar is patient enough.

 

[Tekk]

hey stelzig no worries, the puff boards are a chill place
anyway it was something fun to watch haha

I can't wait for Melee Grande =)

 

[Massive]

Massive: You make it sound like it would be easy to get a grab on puff either way. I suppose a strong Uair would be nice for this matchup, but I don't see why that percentage is so unusual. but I probably just suck =L

I was actually referring to the last 2 fairs sheik connected, in the NTSC version both would've killed Jigglypuff.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Stelzig, you don't back air enough. You're doing a good job of luring Puff into the air in vulnerable positions... but then you have to switch to the more ranged aerial once she keeps going up there preemptively to stop it and prevent you from getting the good needle / fair angle to attack from. You just go under that and... Puff's screwed.

And by screwed I mean you do like 12-14% to her lol.

 

[King5280]

Stelzig, you don't back air enough. You're doing a good job of luring Puff into the air in vulnerable positions... but then you have to switch to the more ranged aerial once she keeps going up there preemptively to stop it and prevent you from getting the good needle / fair angle to attack from. You just go under that and... Puff's screwed.

And by screwed I mean you do like 12-14% to her lol.

Don't teach sheiks the mu! Tr3mor learned from your hbox videos and now he keeps owning me. So much easier when sheiks are in the dark.

 

[Ørn]

I was actually referring to the last 2 fairs sheik connected, in the NTSC version both would've killed Jigglypuff.

Sheik's fair is the same in PAL and NTSC.

Also in case it wasn't obvious already: we were sure for a few seconds that stelzig had won, seeing as it went to time *just* before Sheik got KO'd. However, Oskar had a 3% lead and won the match (and the set), but only a few people had actually noticed that. It was confusing and intense at the same time.

It was pretty hype in person, at least, haha.

 

[stelzig]

Stelzig, you don't back air enough. You're doing a good job of luring Puff into the air in vulnerable positions... but then you have to switch to the more ranged aerial once she keeps going up there preemptively to stop it and prevent you from getting the good needle / fair angle to attack from. You just go under that and... Puff's screwed.

And by screwed I mean you do like 12-14% to her lol.

I was doing really good with rising Bairs on reaction against him in friendlies a few weeks earlier (after seeing you do it), but I kinda lost the abbility to do it again I guess. Always feels like I have to learn so many things over again when I play. I will start focusing on getting control over that again because I agree that it was pretty powerful (being able to throw it out on reaction whenever puff went high/fullhopped)

It doesn't only do 12-14% either, it can help netting a KO eventually too

That was a surprisingly more positive comment than the "you don't understand anything about jigglypuff" that I got from you last time I played against him.

Massive: As eagle said, the power of Fair should be the same. Witness the massive european DI (or something...), lol. I thought I had won after that last Fair too, but alas... Wasn't enough

 

[KirbyKaze]

Don't teach sheiks the mu! Tr3mor learned from your hbox videos and now he keeps owning me. So much easier when sheiks are in the dark.

oh my god you mean the jigglypuffs might actually need to do more than crouch --> free rest x4 whenever they scare sheik to win?!

<_>

c'mon guys... get on that metagame... or development... or something...

<_>

stelzig: yeah i feel you. i remember a set with someone's puff they kept throwing out spaced fairs at a height where it kept stuffing my fair. eventually i forced one through but i took like 70%. and after the match (i got a big lead earlier so i won via grinding out a fair for every like 2-4 i took lol <_<) i thought about the angle and was just like "wow i'm dumb why didn't i just bair? herp derp." and then i realized i still wasn't good at super smash bros melee for the nintendo gamecube.

the end.

 

[stelzig]

I actually remember once doing the same against him with marth now. Using rising Bairs in similar situations... That also only worked for me on that day, but I still think it is likewisely good (and it somehow always tippers, lol. Like try just doing it against a CPU puff.. It always tippers :D). Hopefully I will be able to regain good use of rising Bairs on her with sheik

 

[KirbyKaze]

sheik's bair in general is really good vs puff

but vs him specifically you probably could have gotten a bunch of rising ones

nurgle