Lucas in teams: "Wa-Wa-Wobbuffet!" Wario! ~Peach will be up when I'm not lazy~

[HailCrest]

it seems that we're focusing less on who makes good partners than who provides the best healing/who has gimmicks we can abuse.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

The thing is, Lucas on teams is all about doing those gimmicks and healing. lol

 

[NinjaLink]

My perm partner's an IC main. That's one of our sloppier vids, plenty of vids when our team firmly hands out the ****. Like most heal-based teams, it's based on momentum. I ftilt my opponent away? I run over to my partner for a nice 92% reward. And since groudned Blizzard hits on both sides, it's possible to heal while having a respectable hitbox on the other end to catch anyone approaching (for a smaller heal).

There's also some synergy. Lucas is really good at controlling space so against chars taht arent MK/Snake, partners have a really tough time getting by Lucas to save their partner from IC grabs.

IC's can hobble chars into Lucas's dtilt lock, making it the fastest jab lock setup in the game (outside of Ganon, i guess >_> ). Lucas can set up grabs for IC's with his dair.

If Lucas does get a lock, IC's are really good at keeping people from interrupting with blizzard and uair.

The team is really hard to use effectively though since it needs good teamwork to keep all 3 of u together. Need to be able to control the opponents well enough to decide when you want everyone together, when you want them as far as possible to stop interruptions and keeping IC's far enough to be safe while close enough to heal. To make it work, you gotta play Lucas as both the carry and the stock tank which sounds awkward but the team makes it work.

I'd put IC's as one of Lucas's best possible partners. Its just not as obvious as the others.

Hes right. Yes its not one of the easiest teams to actually work with.......but its very profitable if u both have that sync and on point.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Ok so from what I'm reading, the ICs are a better partner than G&W for Lucas.

I'm ready to believe it anyway just because I REALLY wouldn't team G&W and Lucas for any real reason lol.

 

[#HBC | J]

it seems that we're focusing less on who makes good partners than who provides the best healing/who has gimmicks we can abuse.

The thing is, Lucas on teams is all about doing those gimmicks and healing. lol

Thiiiiiiiiiiiiis! Lucas is all about being able to exploit quite a few things that makes him shine to the highest extant. By abusing these gimmicks/healing qualities Lucas becomes a very reliable/great doubles partner(with the right person lol).

ICs are an example of your thingy. ICs are horrid partners for just about everyone except Lucas/Ness who can abuse such a great aspect they have with their healing always being 80+ in such a miniscual amount of time. That reason alone makes ICs good partners. Lucas/Ness are tricky characters to go about when looking at teams because you have to realize their aspect is weird but great. Lucas can use healing and his powerful punishing smashes to become a great stock tank. He basically is VERY gimmicky =P. I hope I answered your thingy HailCrest ^_^.

Ok so from what I'm reading, the ICs are a better partner than G&W for Lucas.

I'm ready to believe it anyway just because I REALLY wouldn't team G&W and Lucas for any real reason lol.

haha! It is so true though! GW still is a pretty good partner however I will input when I am done unpacking from Otakon x3

Also thanks for the input A2Z ;D Lucas/GW has some quicks to it

 

[HailCrest]

healing isn't the only thing we can exploit, you know. dedede's down throw?

i'm just saying, it gets boring after a while just discussing characters who have projectiles we an heal off of/game and watch's bucket. besides, if the good partners are all discussed first, we might think that "omg lucas is so partnergasmic" and overrate other partners, or worse, think that a partner is horrible just because they don't have an energy projectile to work off of.

 

[Ryos4]

Hello Lucas players. The Link boards are discussing Lucas+Link in teams at the request of Jbandit. So i would like to invite you to join the discussion here.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=274758

When the discussion is over I can relay the information back here. However, be aware the rating may differ as we are looking at it from a Link's perspective.

Anyway thanks in advance.

 

[#HBC | J]

healing isn't the only thing we can exploit, you know. dedede's down throw?

i'm just saying, it gets boring after a while just discussing characters who have projectiles we an heal off of/game and watch's bucket. besides, if the good partners are all discussed first, we might think that "omg lucas is so partnergasmic" and overrate other partners, or worse, think that a partner is horrible just because they don't have an energy projectile to work off of.

True enough healing isn't the only thing we can exploit but it is the most prominent factor of Lucas in teams. Hence why going into detail on this is crucial. Lucas overall is already an above average team character without his healing ability but with it as said he is really good. Actually if you looked even with the healing ability we still didn't know the true ability of Ice Climbers and underrated it till it was shown what this team can actually do. Why would we begin basing if a character does well with Lucas or not if they do not have a healing projectile or not? We are basing these teams on tournament viablility and how well they do overall. Healing is a very good plus and boost to how well the team does but it in no way should differ the thought process on how another team should do. (i.e. Let's take /:shiek: One has a healing ability and one does not. Who overall is the better partner? Each has their pluses and both have their cons however, no one knows is the problem because it has not been discussed.) Also discussing these characters are boring? These teams are all very good and seem to be fun/unique. If you have any suggestions to which team you would like to discuss next please say so because I am just choosing characters that will most likely boost activity and have more input due to the fact people do not want to discuss a team that is boring/not used/not good. This thread is still pretty new in discussion terms and we are only on our 5th teammate out of 37 (6th if you count the current Link/Lucas discussion in their thread). So we still have a long way to go and I am not stopping till every single one is discussed ;D.

Sorry for the wall but I tried to answer your question/statement fully for you. ^^"

Now onto Gdubs time ^_^.

/ team video (Galeon and Snipa vs. C018 and GDX) *Video I found that showed how cool this team can actually be ;o*

Mr. Game & Watch: Punish Gimmick
Carry- 7
Stock Tank- 8
Punisher- 10*** (just pretend this is a 9 Zac )
DPS- 8
Good Offensive Support
Great Defensive Support
Absorber (Offensive)


As a Carry ... GnW isn't necessarily "the best" but looking at the scenario from an alternative viewpoint would tell you that doesn't matter- he kills his opponents BEFORE a clutch or lose situation is forced upon him, he's that good!

Stock Tanking as GnW can be retardedly easy (he's one of the best plankers in the game... ugh) and he's got a very difficult to punish moveset (not to mention 1 whiff of a kill move can mean a lost stock anywhere near 80% for GnW's foes!) AND he has the best bucket brake in the game! ... or it can be pretty **** difficult if your opponent has very good vertical kill moves and their partner gets a grab off on you.

Punish Moves:
•C-stick
•Touch your controller

For DPS, GnW has a plethora of moves that when connected just once, do about 15% on average (**** you Gaymanwatch,) some pretty reliable damage strings, as well as a tech-chase CG that allows for some doubles tomfoolery to ensue!

G&W's Gimmick is, of course, the bucket. 3 charges of moderately strong projectiles and you've got yourself the scariest, least punishable kill move in the game.

*** Judgment, usmash, fsmash, dsmash, freaking everything GnW has, kills. He is without a doubt the best punishing character in doubles, and it's no wonder he's regarded as one of the top doubles characters.

GW and Lucas are both grand punishers. Gdubs is a better Lucas when it comes to being a Punisher. He has our powerful smashes that have less lag both ways on it. Both are good DPS' and both can stock tank very well. Lucas can fill Gdubs bucket very well and make it powerful. A2Z is right though. Both do prefer partners that suit them better but this team still has some very good perks to it.

Stages go to Brinstar, Rainbow Cruise, Norfair, Battlefield and stages like those.

Watch out for and with this team.

im thinking of this team more still but I think the local moderator should get in here and say something since he uses the dubs warrior.

 

[#HBC | J]

alright so it seems Gdubs isn't a popular choice to discuss for us eh? Well if no one else wants input we can put GW on the back burner and move on.

My vote's for Peachy.

Edit: Well i'll get the Peach's in here since it seems most of ya'll forget about this thread so much =P.

Peach: DPS
Carry- 5
Stock Tank- 6
Punisher- 7
DPS- 9
Good Offensive Support


Oh Peach, you have fast, great aerials, amazing horizontal aerial mobility, a great keepaway game, and the hands down worst air dodge in the game, coupled with a moderate range issue. She's not the best, nor is she the worst. She's somewhere in between, when it comes to pulling out in that clutch situation.

As a Stock Tank, Peach's poor recovery and light weight force her to play keepaway in order to succeed. Turnip camping is a must in order to keep a hold of the stocks, and her fast aerials and amazing jab can keep her opponents at bay, so she has the tools to keep stocks, it's just a completely different style than most Peaches are used to. Except nairing at all times, they're used to that XD

Punish Moves:
•Usmash
•Fair
•Fsmash
•Bair (usually stale)
•Nair (always stale)
•Bob-omb (random)
•Stitch Face (random)
•Beam Sword (random)

As opposed to Stock Tanking, DPS is where Peach can really turn things on. Her dair strings into another (when not DId, and it's a difficult move to DI in the first place) her uair strings into true combos if performed correctly, she can hit her opponent with the same turnip twice in one short hop and finish it with a nair, and her aerials have a dominating amount of priority to them.

Offensive Support:
•Dthrow
•Dair (shield pressure)

Peach data from Dekar's thread. This team can be utterly annoying to aloooooooooooooooooooot of people. Peach's DPS game is astounding especially when teaming with Lucas' powerful smashes. She has a decent grab which helps in setups, great aerial support. Lucas will be in his normal position camping, tanking, and punishing. Lucas can help Peach really well if she is below the stage and needs help recovering. One of the only flaws I am seeing is Peach can't heal Lucas sufficiently (Can Lucas heal from the spores of toad because i don't think so. idk that would be nice but eh not really safe/best but any healing is good)

I'll think of more but i need sleep (z-z) but overall atm I think Peach can be one of our best non-healing partners.

 

[z00ted]

Peach and Lucas...
wow.. so many multihit moves....

killing could become an issue though.

 

[~Nasty~]

Lucas can heal off of the Toad's spores. I forget how much though, but i'm pretty sure it's a decent amount, probably around 25-30%

 

[Gea]

Peach is lower-mid weight, not lightweight, but dies off the top fairly easily due to her weight/floatiness. Good setups for both of you are each other's throws into usmash. Lucas has to kill, unless Peach gets off a sweetspotted usmash she kills too slow for teams.

Here's a good trick that works way too well if the Peach is great at being offensive. Have her float at optimum dair height and wall. Stand behind her and PK thunder over her head and into them. PK Thunder is WAY too good in teams if you have a character who walls well. Be very sparing with PK Fire. Also don't just throw out smashes, Peach is too slow to run across the stage to help you if you whiff. If she's on the edge help her, she sucks at getting back up safe.

Honestly for their tier placements and overall worth as characters they work fairly well together as a team. Definitely not the best team out there, but it's surprising at how well this team can wall and shield-pressure.

 

[#HBC | J]

Peach and Lucas...
wow.. so many multihit moves....

killing could become an issue though.

Killing most the time is never an issue for Lucas in teams. Also we have Nair, Dsmash, Usmash, Dair, and PKT for multihitting moves. Peach has Dair, Dsmash, Parasol, and Toad as in multihitting.

So including everything 10 air, 16 ground, 8 specials for a total of 34 moves for the pair. That would make it 9/34 or 27% of their moves multihitting. That's not really "many" but probably more then some. (i didn't include Ledge attacks or Grabs/Pummeling and if I did the percentage would be even smaller)

Lucas can heal off of the Toad's spores. I forget how much though, but i'm pretty sure it's a decent amount, probably around 25-30%

Thanks Nasty! ;D I'll try and do some testing tonight when my friend comes over. And wow that's like 1 ZSS dsmash ;o.

Peach is lower-mid weight, not lightweight, but dies off the top fairly easily due to her weight/floatiness. Good setups for both of you are each other's throws into usmash. Lucas has to kill, unless Peach gets off a sweetspotted usmash she kills too slow for teams.

Here's a good trick that works way too well if the Peach is great at being offensive. Have her float at optimum dair height and wall. Stand behind her and PK thunder over her head and into them. PK Thunder is WAY too good in teams if you have a character who walls well. Be very sparing with PK Fire. Also don't just throw out smashes, Peach is too slow to run across the stage to help you if you whiff. If she's on the edge help her, she sucks at getting back up safe.

Honestly for their tier placements and overall worth as characters they work fairly well together as a team. Definitely not the best team out there, but it's surprising at how well this team can wall and shield-pressure.

Yea PKT is really good in teams with a quite a few partners. And again I agree Lucas has to kill and stock tank while Peach is the major DPS. These two can really wall/rack up damage nicely. Overall this team would rank as a 8 or 9 out of 10. Against Double MK though this team may run into quite a bit of trouble. Probably an 8 is the best number.

 

[¿Qué?]

I actually find this a team with loads of potential. Lucas can kill VERY well, especially with a team partner too set up those free smash hits, like Peach. This team is widely based on setup. If anything, I feel that Peach can Lucas can go the whole match just setting up big damage with combo after combo. Many of Peach's moves can set up kills for Lucas as well.

Probobly the most common set up with Peach is her Dair set ups.

Dair can set up into:
Fsmash- Kill
Dsmash- Kill(Watch out for Peach though)
PK Thunder- Damage
PK Freeze- Damage (Can PK Freeze Kill too?)
PSI Magnet- Can launch pretty nicely

Dthrow can lead too:
Drum roll please....

LUCAS'S UP SMASH- RAPERAPERAPE
PK Freeze

Further edits will be posted later.

 

[Queen B. Kyon]

Oh here it is. I honestly haven't played with a good Lucas in teams before but it seems like it would be a good team and killing might not be too hard however I feel this team and many Lucas teams get recked by........

 

[O'chunks]

Bump to save this..... I wish i had some knowledge on this team

 

[#HBC | J]

thanks Chunky ;o I kindof let it die down since no one was holding any interest in it but I think it is about time we brought it back up.

Who shall we do next?

 

[O'chunks]

How about ROB? I'm interested on how that will turn out..... if you want to though....

guess this is another character postponed til later.

 

[demonictoonlink]

Rob wouldn't work.

 

[O'chunks]

Rob wouldn't work.

It's Lucas in dubz >_> he pretty much does well with just about anyone......

 

[#HBC | J]

How about ROB? I'm interested on how that will turn out..... if you want to though....

guess this is another character postponed til later.

ROB would be interesting and actually not necessarily about Peach we got some decent input I can go off of. Plus iirc they were doing Lucas soon too.

Rob wouldn't work.

Care to explain why? ROB's healing aspect is pitiful however he has a good quality to him which is his own Stock Tanking/DPS. You never know till it is discussed.

 

[O'chunks]

We could also do Tink, since DTL use to main Tink so it'll be funny for him.

 

[#HBC | J]

Here you go Mekos, talk all you want about doubles here and go crazy~

I really want this thread to stay alive ;_;

 

[Mekos]

yeah! Alright so lets change this and discuss wario.

To finish off peach. I think she is a terrible partner for lucas cuz she doesn't have real good killing power, her moves don't flow with lucas's for easy follow ups, and lastly because she doesn't have strong punishes against high tier characters moves IMO

 

[Kite0692]

Wario :D

Down throw (Wario) to *insert any move here (Lucas)* is awesome

 

[Kaffei]

wario dthrow> lucas usmash = wow

 

[Mekos]

Yeah..we gotta change the name. Peach is over. Peach sucks as a partner. She doesn't have the killing potential in my opinion. Also she can't be the aggro force I need her to be against certain characters. MK of course is one them lol.


kk Wario lets do this

 

[#HBC | J]

I'll change it to Wario but Peach does not suck as a partner for Lucas and is actually a good partner in general for her amazing DPS. Yes she sucks at killing but that is what Lucas is for. It's like the Sonic/Lucas team. Sonic lacks kill potential but is a great punisher and a good DPS. Same goes for Peach. Peach can also take to the air of the battle while Lucas can stay on the ground to fight. It's actually a pretty good team with the right chemistry. Peach's grab is exceptional for follow ups with Lucas' smashes.

Anways I will change the name but Peach/Lucas is not a bad team in the slightest.

 

[KoozyK]

i feel like wario and luas is a good combo to an extent. u can use his bike to extend ur move frames.
wario has really good coverage in the air also

 

[Mekos]

I disagree J. What are u going to do against a double mk team...nuthin!!! lol jk

But yeah for certain teams...there is lil hope. If yer partner cant go agro then u cant be a punisher. So Lucas's killing power will diminish. It will be come more like a 1v1v1v1. And lucas sucks in 1v1. I'm of course talking about playing with top level players. Like against a m2k, adhd, ally. I think that's what we should think about when talking about a teamate. Not just playing anybody and any range skill wise.

Also sonic is different cuz of his gimping capabilities. A good sonic can punish extremely well off the stage cuz of his aerial speed and recovery. Peach not so.

 

[Luco]

Sorry to bring this back up but I think this would be great to continue. If we look at a future matchup, Lucas as a doubles partner would be fun to look at.

I don't know a lot about it but that PK fire heals somewhere between 6 to 10 percent, PK thunder heals something like 20 percent and PK freeze 25 percent. Out of all of these, the latter two are the best to heal with. PK freeze if you're in a tough position as it is likely to not only heal you but also freeze one or two of the opponents around you, allowing for a good Nair punish or PKT2 punish. PK thunder is good for doing some damage, then looping back to heal your partner. PK thunder is betyter if you want the least lag for sure.

Other than this, Usmashes can be used a little more liberally in this team (but not too common) as you have someone to cover for your cool-down. This puts a LOT of pressure on the opponents and often works in your favour. As well as this, PKT1 camping is possible with two Lucases in close proximity and some amazing gimping techniques are possible as well.

There's more to this team but i'd leave it to discussion and wait for some replies first. my brother and I do a double Lucas team and have had some very good results with it (not to mention being told that our team is extremely intimidating!).

Overall, i'd put this team around a 9 with Ness, because of the increased effort to heal in some cases. If the technique is perfected however, I can see this team being a 10.

 

[mars16]

What about Mario and Lucas Team!?

 

[Luco]

Bumping again to look at some advances on lucas ditto teaming.

My brother and I have developed a system using quick words:

"Short" - to be said when you're close together. The person who says it pulls out magnet and rolls/jumps/whatever from the heal the other Lucas gives. Two of these can heal 40 or 50 percent so it's worth doing when both opponents are offscreen or are both being star KO'd or if they're far enough away fromyou. Just one heal is fine even if they are close-ish.

"Long" is actually a question. If the other person answers "Yes" then the former person pulls out magnet whilst the other person uses PKT1 and directs it towards them from a distance. Good for if you're away from each other and are safe, or perhaps edgeguarding.

"Zap" needs no answer. It's a PKT1 that is actually used to chase the opponents around the stage, HOWEVER if you want the heal and it is close to you then you can grab it. A fine option with one opponent, or even two if one is offstage, or if you get both or use it to make them shield.

My brother and I are also experimenting with grab release to the other's charged Usmash and double Dtilt locks that can go on till about 300%. =)

 

[Darky-Sama]

Hello, Lucas mains (or Lucas users)! This is actually the first time visiting your boards throughout my entire Brawl career. Figured I would give my opinion on this thread seeing as how it's been inactive for awhile.

This might be obvious, overrated and already stated in the past, but I've always considered ZSS one of-- if not the best partner for Lucas when it comes to synergy. I remember teaming with both AKiRA and JBandit a few times in the past when they mained Lucas and had a lot of time to test out their overall potential together (with both one and two opponents remaining). I have to say, it worked beautifully. Definitely one of my favorite teammates when using ZSS.

Lucas has the early kill potential that ZSS otherwise lacks. She can easily move around the stage to keep Lucas from getting recovery gimped. When the situation allows it, repeatedly downsmashing can recover Lucas' heath from 100% to 0% in a matter of seconds -- though it's not recommended to rely on that strategy unless there's only one opponent remaining or Lucas manages to snag a recovery when ZSS is downsmashing an opponent already.

But when there is only one opponent remaining, Lucas and ZSS have some wonderful infinites revolving around ZSS's downsmash. Basically, ZSS downsmashes > Lucas footstools and fastfalls. You can delay this combo and repeat it to raise their percentage to a killable state-- where ZSS can grab out of her downsmash and hold them (without pumbling) while Lucas charges his neutral+B or a downsmash. Of course, there are other options as well, but those are the quickest ways to guarantee a KO in my honest opinion. No high percentages required. This also allows you to quickly KO an opponent if they have two stocks or more, seeing as how their partners may be provoked to share a stock if they haven't already done so.

Alternatively, seeing as how ZSS's downsmash puts characters in midair, you have the ability to Bair spike them into her downsmash as well. This would allow opponents to tech though, so you may want to be careful and avoid that method.

 

[Jamwa]

ZSS Dsmash > ZSS Footstall > Lucas Dtilt lock > Lucas Usmash is probably the best lol, and also fun for Lucas, but yeah what you've said pretty much covers everything that makes them a great team

 

[Akenero]

Spamus!!!so much healing!!!

 

[Luco]

ZSS Dsmash > ZSS Footstall > Lucas Dtilt lock > Lucas Usmash is probably the best lol, and also fun for Lucas, but yeah what you've said pretty much covers everything that makes them a great team

I remember once D-tilt locking a link online, and he actually rolled out of it when I tried to Usmash him. He survived and i've become afraid of using Usmash after Dtilt lock from that day on.

Lucas + Zamus is a great team. I think the closest top level play we've seen of this kind of team is Ness + Zamus which is pretty similar in that Ness has killpower and can heal. FOW + NickRiddle iirc.

Which reminds me, isn't FOW related to another smasher? I could be wrong... Just something I remember hearing a long time ago.

 

[Jamwa]

Shaky + NickRiddle

 

[Luco]

FOW and NickRiddle haven't teamed? Are you sure? Huh! Fair enough then =)

 

[Jamwa]

fow and nickriddle haven't teamed? Are you sure? Huh! Fair enough then =)

. _ .