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Lucas in teams: "Wa-Wa-Wobbuffet!" Wario! ~Peach will be up when I'm not lazy~

#HBC | J

Prince of DGamesia
Joined
Feb 14, 2010
Messages
7,591
Location
Colorado
So I heard this idea had failed when it was first started and that kind of bummed me out alot. I see Lucas doing pretty well in teams if not better then being a 1v1 contender. Many different attributes play to how well a team could work out. There are so many different combinations and ways of play it is insane how teams work. at every tournament it seems if there is a 1v1 tournament going on there is also a 2v2 tournament as well. Why not start a discussion that involves the many different boards of the SWF to help out and see which team mate is Lucas best teammate that actually has a shot at winning a tournament.

This is all just based on how the characters can play off each other to see how well the duo can stand to fight against a team. Plus in-depth descriptions will be shown as to how to use the team effectively, team ratings, correct stage picking, and which characters to watch out for on the opposing team. Team battles depend on many different variables however this will be a simplistic skeleton of how a certain character helps Lucas. Now if you come into here thinking "Team battles are too random to discuss a plausible teammate." Then that is your opinion but do not come in here and troll. This seems to me just as important as a MU discussion it seems because 2v2 is featured at most if not all tournaments that have 1v1 as well.


If no one has any problems with this then why not start our way from the top of the tier list all the way down to the bottom. Our own tier list will be made from who is the best to who is the worst afterwards.


Rating template:

10 = Probably one of the best partners
9-8 = Really good but not perfect
7-6 = Not too shabby! :o
5-4 = Mediocre at best
3-2 = Consider a new partner
1-0 = Double fail ftw?
~:~ = Teammate yet to be discussed


Discussion order:
1.) General Tips
2.) Good Attributes
3.) Bad Attributes
4.) Characters to watch out for
5.) Stage picking
6.) Advance teamwork moves
7.) Is the team viable?


Lucas

~How he does himself~

:lucas: Lucas: Punish Tank Gimmick
Carry- 2
Stock Tank- 6/9
Punisher- 9
DPS- 7
Great Offensive Support
Good Defensive Support
Moderate Interference Issues
Absorber
Energy Projectile (Punish/DPS)
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=260661

This is what is shown about Lucas in Dekar’s great Team thread that is a really good read to learning how to play teams effectively.
Lucas overall is a 7 out of 10. He is a great team player with great punishing options. However when Lucas has the right partner that can help him be the great stock tank he can be then he gets a solid 9 out of 10. He is one of the best teammates in brawl. Healing is a great aspect that only him and Ness share and his punishing options with his many recovery options make him a good teammate overall.

Now to summarize Lucas in teams here is a list of key items for any character as to how they do in teams:
What is lucas's role in a team?

What should lucas be doing at any given time?

Does lucas have a easy time with any of the following roles:
1. surviving forever
2. killing
3. splitting opponents up
4. 2v1 combat
5. his role in 1v2
6. attacking opponents who are engaging your teammate to open them up
7. racking damage without leaving himself open to the other player
Breaking down Lucas with each question is how it goes from here:

What is Lucas’ role in teams?

As said in Dekar’s thread Lucas is a great Punisher and Stock tank. He can kill really well also with his healing aspect he can shine as a stock tank. This stock tank quality, however, only applies to certain characters that have the ability to heal him. With his powerful smashes Lucas can kill his opponents a lot easier since his teammate can help rack damage, however, unlike another character that has this power (GW) Lucas has severe cool down issues with his smash attacks. His ground game is great as we know but his air game is what he lacks. Lucas needs someone who can help him eliminate some of his weaknesses and also help raise his strengths greatly.

What should Lucas be doing at any given time?

Lucas, if having the right partner allows him to do so, must be abusing his PSI Magnet. With this he can keep stocks, which in teams is very important. Lucas should also be trying to look for set-ups in which he can really shine and contribute to helping his partner out. Lucas can also rack up damage quite well so this is another plus he should be doing. However his main priority should always be trying to keep stocks and looking for ways to punish.

Does Lucas have an easy time with any of the following?

1.) Surviving forever – With the right partner, Yes. Otherwise he is above average. *most strongest asset with the right partner*

:lucas: + :pikachu2: = http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLzOjGRCuA8&playnext_from=TL&videos=AKBUSRJ_8lc

/\This vid is a great example of how well Lucas can stock tank especially with the right partner on the right stage/\

2.) Killing – Yes, early smashes, great ground game, setups. Lucas’ second strongest point in teams. *first strongest if you don't have the right partner :V*

3.) Splitting opponents up – Not an easy time but can do pretty decently.

4.) 2v1 combat – Yes, Because Lucas can help set up and with his teammate helping to set up moves to his early killing smashes he does have an easy time with this however he needs a partner that can help keep the opponent away from him. Also in 2v1 Lucas and his partner can heal alot easier now so keeping stocks is easier.

5.) His role in 1v2 – No, this is an important necessity for teams and sadly Lucas lacks in the department.

6.) Attacking opponents who are engaging your opponents to open them up – Yes, With Lucas’ projectiles he can accomplish this however not as easy as Ness.

7.) Racking damage without leaving himself open to the other player – No, his smashes have a lot of cool down and his air game does not have priority over most air based moves.


This is rPSI's take on Lucas in teams and who would be good partners to aid him in this.

Lucas' greatest strengths are his ability to kill pretty early compared to others (sort of like Gdubs), but unlike Gdubs, he has A LOT of cool down on his smashes. If he's going to be the punisher in doubles, he's going to need a good set-up. The people that first come to mind are:
MK D-throw
Snake D-throw
Falco D-throw
DDD D-throw
Gdubs D-throw
ZSS D-smash
Marth's throws
Pika F/D Throw

Another great strength of Lucas is his vertical spacing. However, Lucas generally lacks safe horizontal spacing. People that come in mind that are good at it are
MK
Snake
ZSS
ROB
Marth
DK

Next we need someone who can really capitalize Lucas' n-air. People who really can help include.
MK
ZSS
Gdubs
Pika
etc.

Now we all know that Lucas has a great ground game, but a lot of his aerials are just flat out beat by other things such as DDD b-air. Lucas would prefer someone great in the air.
MK
ZSS
Gdubs
Pika
Wario
Marth
Lucario
Ness

Lucas also has the ability to stock tank extremely well given his partner. The best ones include:
Lucario
ZSS
Pikachu
Ness
This is a basic Break-down of how Lucas is himself in teams thanks to the Lucas mains of the Lucas boards. Overall Lucas is great in teams :laugh: but he has to be abusing that PSI Magnet like it is no tomorrow. Great partner.


By Himself:
7:10 *normal partner*
Great Punisher

9:10 *healing partner*
c3gill: Sexy Stock tank



Characters

:metaknight:
Metaknight
~:~

:snake:
Snake
~:~

:diddy:
Diddy Kong
~:~

:falco:
Falco
~:~


Ice Climbers
Ice actually moves fast! (in a healing sense)
9:10


Quick Tips:
- Healing Items?: YES
- Blizzard: Both; 2%-92%(yes THAT much in so little time) Sopo; 2%-40ish%(iirc)

General Summary:
- Alright let me start by saying this. This team takes WORK! Alot of people including myself misconstrued this team as not doing so well and not ranking among our higher tiered viable partners till Galeon showed/told how to run this team. Lucas/ICs is a viable team once you learn how to work with it.
- AMAZING HEALING PROPERTY!!! (best in fastest/most)
- 2v1 this team is ****.
- Lucas is ICs best viable tourny partner
- Healing is actually easier rather than harder once you get it down.
- Try and help protect Nana
- you 3(emphasis on the 3) must learn to work together.
- Ima just leave the rest to Galeon due to the fact he uses ICs/Lucas as his permanant team.
My perm partner's an IC main. That's one of our sloppier vids, plenty of vids when our team firmly hands out the ****. Like most heal-based teams, it's based on momentum. I ftilt my opponent away? I run over to my partner for a nice 92% reward. And since groudned Blizzard hits on both sides, it's possible to heal while having a respectable hitbox on the other end to catch anyone approaching (for a smaller heal).

There's also some synergy. Lucas is really good at controlling space so against chars taht arent MK/Snake, partners have a really tough time getting by Lucas to save their partner from IC grabs.

IC's can hobble chars into Lucas's dtilt lock, making it the fastest jab lock setup in the game (outside of Ganon, i guess >_> ). Lucas can set up grabs for IC's with his dair.

If Lucas does get a lock, IC's are really good at keeping people from interrupting with blizzard and uair.

The team is really hard to use effectively though since it needs good teamwork to keep all 3 of u together. Need to be able to control the opponents well enough to decide when you want everyone together, when you want them as far as possible to stop interruptions and keeping IC's far enough to be safe while close enough to heal. To make it work, you gotta play Lucas as both the carry and the stock tank which sounds awkward but the team makes it work.

I'd put IC's as one of Lucas's best possible partners. Its just not as obvious as the others.
Characters to watch out for:
:snake: Snake
:metaknight: Meta Knight

Stage Discussion:

Try and go for stages that are bigger than smaller. Smashville, Final Destination, PS1, PS2 all come to mind. Try and stay away from stages that put this team into the air such as Norfair, Brinstar, Rainbow Cruise, and others of this nature.

Is this team viable?
Surprisingly, yes o_O.


:marth:
Marth
~:~

:wario:
Wario
~:~

:dedede:
King Dedede
~:~


Pikachu
10:10
High Voltage Warning!



Quick Advice:

-Healing Items? YES
-Thunder; Around 23-26% (doesn't matter which part)
-Thunder-jolt; Around 26% *the ball in the air* Around 13-15% *the full length hit of it*

General Summary:
-Pikachu can heal us while attacking at the same time! This is a great benefit because it keeps the flow of battle going while still being able to heal.
-Definetely Tournament viable.
-Two types of healing opputunities and only one of them depend on when you absorb them.
-Lucas will have to be more aggressive in this team.
-Both have good recoveries and can help each other recover if they are in a bind.
-Pikachu is light =/
-Pikachu has a hard time killing so we are gonna have to do most of it and look for set ups
Pikachu Main here.

My brother plays lucas very well and the team epically owns. I feel that a good setup is pikachu in teh air juggling the opponent and lucas picking each opponent off while they land with KO moves and crazy damage

Pikachu can juggle oppoenents all day and Crazy stuff like lucas u-smash and d-smash on a landing opponent(with pikachu) is perfectly safe because if you time it right, the opponents will get owned by airdodge to ground or something and pikachu can quick attack cancel away into safety before landing in the danger spot.

There are thunder glitches that can happen (look up 'aftershock' in our AT's thread) where multiple hits of thunder happen when it lands on the ground. If in the freak chance that you absorb that, I think that heals 55%+ and it also gives G&W an instant level 3 (full) bucket.

If opponents are largely aerial, then pikachu can sort of spam thunder walls and lucas can safely pick off the opponents or protect pikachu. Like below:

____._________________||________________________________.______________
_____________________||_________Aerial Opponent 1_________Aerial Opponent 2
_______PkT```*________||______________________________________________
______________________||__________________.______...____________________
Lucas_________|Pikachu Thunder Wall|_____________________________

\___________________________________________________________/


That's a little bit. Overall, the tips and tricks you can do don't stop. Both have anti-tornado and safe things to do against snakes grenades. Pikachu can't be chaingrabbed by anyone except himself, falco, and IC's.

Play around with it ^_^.
Olimar[/SIZE]
~:~


Lucario
10:10
The Aura Warrior shares his Power!



Quick Advice:

-Healing items?: YES
-Aura Sphere: around 30% *full blast* around 15% *tiny blast*
-Force Palm Flame: around 11%

General Summary:

-Lucario is one of the best partners Lucas can have.
-This team is completely tournament viable
-Two healing opportunities
-Anubis effect is really good for this team
-Since I don’t know much about this team myself, Nasty and his partner Fury describe how to work with this team quite well in two summaries.
~ AS can not be healed while charging, that would be incredibly broken, lol...

~ Lucas/Lucario is a 10 out of 10 IMO... HOWEVER, not when it comes to facing a double mk team. It is extremely hard to heal when 2 mk's are on the field bc of nado.

~ The downside to this team is that neither character can be very supportive of the other when one is being double teamed from far away. (PKT doesn't really help)

~ If lucario uses his recovery and doesn't make it to the ledge, lucas can hit lucario using PKT and lucario then gets a second upB. (This works! I have saved my partner MANY times doing this).

~ This team's main goal is to keep lucas at 0%. Whenever opponents are hit off the stage, lucas and lucario should be HEALING! DO NOT WORRY ABOUT GIMPING THE OPPONENTS OFF STAGE! YOU NEED TO BE HEALING CONSTANTLY! Lucario should NOT be charging AS up the whole way before healing lucas! It actually takes longer and you won't end up healing that much. Instead, lucario should be mashing that B button, shooting little AS balls to heal lucas. You can heal from a little over 100% down to 0% in less than 4 seconds doing it this way!!

~ The best strategy to be able to make this team work is to fight so that you and lucario are towards the center of the stage, keeping the opponents to the outside. NEVER let both opponents between you and lucario bc it is almost impossible to heal then (one opponent is easier to move out of the way rather than two). This is what your formation should look like:

Opponent | Lucas | Lucario | Opponent

-OR-

Opponent | Lucas | Opponent | Lucario

-AND SOMETIMES-

Lucas | Lucario | Opponent | Opponent

- BUT NEVER-

Lucas | Opponent | Opponent | Lucario

~ If you are fighting in the third formation, and lucas is just standing still, he should always have his magnet up so that lucario can fend off the opponents, turn around (using sideB to heal some) and then continue to use AS to heal lucas some more. :)

~ Also the best kill set-up for this team from a grab would be lucario's grab > Fthrow right into Lucas's Usmash. :)

Overall: 10/10
Against Double MK: 7/10 or MAYBE 8/10
^^^ that was very well written! As a former Lucario main, our team really worked well.. Just a few things I have to add: Lucas should ALWAYS have his magnet up if he's behind lucario while the other two opponents are in front of Lucario. The reason for this is that a lot of the time I will be fending off both opponents and would really quickly turn around and shoot an aura sphere and Lucas should never miss these! If lucario is getting double team *****, lucas always has to enter into the fray with a nair to help the situation, NEVER slide in with an upsmash to hit everyone! Lucario has to stay alive, bc in worst case scenario, Lucas might have to take a stock and even one of Lucas' stocks with Lucario on the board is potentially three stocks in itself if you play it right, especially if Lucario is at high percentages. If you have a charged aura sphere as Lucario, never throw it short range at Lucas, only throw it at Lucas if he's across the stage.. This team only works because of healing! Send Lucas out as a pawn and keep Lucario as a opportune hitter bc even if Lucas gets *****, he will have done damage and all you have to do is throw them away and run to heal.. Upsmash immediately (if you're not in danger) when lucario grabs someone bc upsmash lags crazy and lucario will throw him into the lag and kill him that way. Nasty used to wait for the perfect timing to upsmash when I held someone but there are so many factors bc I could be either superstrong and throw them so fast that they missed the upsmash or they could have really high percentage, it's just better that the lucario waits until he sees the upsmash animation.. Always keep your magnet up!!!!
Characters to watch out for!

:marth: Martha
:metaknight: Metaknight

Stage discussion:

-Big stages are optimal with this team
-Small stages are really not good for this team since they need room to work their magic.
-Moving stages/stages with obstructions are always good because it gives more chances to heal.

Strike: YI, BF
Counterpick: PS1, FD, Delfino, Halberd
Ban: Any small stage you feel the least comfortable on.



:gw:
Mr. Game & Watch
~:~

:pit:
Pit
~:~

:toonlink:
Toon Link
~:~

:zerosuitsamus:
Zero Suit Samus
~:~

:kirby2:
Kirby
~:~

:rob:
R.O.B.
~:~

:dk2:
Donkey Kong
~:~

:peach:
Peach
~:~

:fox:
Fox
~:~

:luigi2:
Luigi
~:~

:wolf:
Wolf
~:~

:shiek:
Shiek
~:~

:pt:
Pokemon Trainer
~:~

:squirtle:
Squirtle
~:~

:ivysaur:
Ivysaur
~:~

:charizard:
Charizard
~:~

:sonic:
Sonic
~:~


Ness
9:10
PSIence ftw!


Quick Tips:
- Ness Heals as well as us!!!
- PKT - 13% heal (entire) 2-3% (tail)
- PKF - 5%
- PKFr - 16-38%
- Lucas can heal from Ness.
- PKT - data coming soon
- PKF - data coming soon
- PKFl - data coming soon

General Summary:
:ness2: Ness: Punish Gimmick
SWF Doubles Thread: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=270134
Carry- 2
Stock Tank- 5/8
Punisher- 7
DPS- 6
Decent Offensive Support
Great Defensive Support
Moderate Interference
Energy Projectile (Punish/DPS)
Absorber (Defensive)
- Ness is a great stock tank
- Ness compliments Lucas very well by being an air battler while Lucas shines on the ground.
- Lucas should be the stock tank however since he has a better recovery and better healing.
- Ness/Lucas is a very viable tournament team and they both complete
- Possibly the best Low Tier team that can be used in normal tournaments
- Both can help each other recover
- You can Dtilt each other to refresh your moves
- As Yink said, This team is very obnoxious
- Quite a few tricks this team has ;o
- Worst case scenario, Ness is offstage and Lucas is in a 2v1 situation.
- Stick together!
I am confused... I thought we were doing Ness, not Fox

Anyway, some stuff I remember. Haven't teamed with another Mother player in like 2 years though so it could be wrong/irrelevant

  • Mutual Magnet healing
  • Helping teammate recover with PKT
  • Double PKT pressure offstage

I've heard of a strategy where Lucas stays behind his partner and just launches PK Freeze while the teammate takes the front. Don't know how well it would work with Ness.

There's also a funny thing you can do where Lucas freezes his opponent offstage. Once they're in an ice block, if Ness releases PSI Magnet near them right afterwards, the wind will cause the frozen opponent to fall straight down instead of popping them upward like usual. If they don't break out fast enough it could put them in a bad position, it's just hard to pull off in a real match. There's a video demonstration of it somewhere.
Just to clarify for you J, The tail of PKT does around 1 or 2% damage, and about 2-3% heal (I'm pretty sure, I might have to go look it up again).

This teams is very obnoxious. The people you face can't leave Ness and Lucas alone for a second, especially if it's on a stage that has corners and places for Ness' PKF to ignite.

The best thing I've seen so far is, I saw a Ness x Lucas team just hit Brinstar with Ness' PKF, Lucas ate it up, then Ness did another PKF and Lucas reflected it and Ness ate it up. Things like this will make sure no one will die. As said, Lucas is good on the ground where Ness compliments him by being good in the Air. Find some nasty setups. FAE and I did one awhile ago where it went:

Ness uthrow > Lucas footstool > Ness dtilt > Lucas dtilt. It's a lock. I don't think you can get out of it, FAE just fsmashed after enough damage went by.
Best team in the whole game hands down!! Wait till me and Fow get a chance to go to a tourney!!!

And Jbandit u are correct. That is how we play. Also there is some cool tricks that I made up. One is called PikaFireWall :). Lucas is on the ground while ness jumps above him. They both pikafire. With correct timing they hit each other. Lucas can then heal from that but there is better options to do. lolol this team rocks!
Characters to watch out for:
:snake: Snake
:marth: Martha

Stages:
Pokemon Stadium 1
Brinstar
Delfino
Basically these two do great on all the same stages ;D

Advance Techniques
Double PKT Gimping
PKFr->PKFl offstage for a spike
Ness Uthrow->Footstool->Both Dtilt (legit lock)->Lucas Smash
Double PKF -> Healing
Tons more, just work with it. You'll be surprised ;o

Is this team viable?
Yes!!!! ;D Mother children ftw!


:bowser2:
Bowser
~:~

:lucas:
Lucas
~:~

:ike:
Ike
~:~

:yoshi2:
Yoshi
~:~

:mario2:
Mario
~:~

:falcon:
Captain Falcon
~:~

:samus2:
Samus
~:~

:jigglypuff:
Jigglypuff
~:~

:zelda:
Zelda
~:~

:link2:
Link
~:~

:ganondorf:
Ganondorf
~:~
***Pictures would be nice :o***

/\/\/\/\/\Vids/\/\/\/\/\

Pink Fresh's Vids:

:pikachu2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLzOjGRCuA8&playnext_from=TL&videos=AKBUSRJ_8lc

:pikachu2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmgH9oGmjTw&playnext_from=TL&videos=cXNjKk6flqw

:pikachu2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chkNtwV2OXA&playnext_from=TL&videos=eMGKxI-XORs

Nasty's Vids:

:lucario:
Set vs. Smurf + HiME
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40fb8Bz0od8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdEH2gchez8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oovbzIJCffk

:lucario:
Set vs. Chibo + AndyG
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31SpJEsCSxY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7o5HSSFTNe0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohY_T09Avj8


If this thread fails then it will otherwise why not have this thread to promote activity and I think this is a very interesting topic to talk about that could bring the other boards in as well. I am gonna uphold this thread and try and update everytime something new is found. So please enjoy and once people recognize this thread as here I am gonna contact the first boards.

Btw other boards should think of starting up this idea too. *shrug* All in all this is to help improve the metagame of Lucas in teams.
 

#HBC | J

Prince of DGamesia
Joined
Feb 14, 2010
Messages
7,591
Location
Colorado
I remembered why I wanted this post o:

Our Tier rank:

S::lucario::pikachu2:
A::ness2::popo:
B:
C:
D:
E:
F:
G:
 

Levitas

the moon
Joined
Jul 20, 2007
Messages
5,734
Location
Ann Arbor, MI
nice idea :p

it'll end up looking something like MK, Snake, and ICs as better options in all likelyhood, but lets see where this goes :D
 

#HBC | J

Prince of DGamesia
Joined
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Messages
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Location
Colorado
I all in all think Pikachu and GW are good partners for him as well. However who knows until we do our correct research on them and hence the reason why this was created :laugh:
 

rPSIvysaur

[ɑɹsaɪ]
Joined
Jun 7, 2009
Messages
16,415
MK is always a good partner. He also has good options. ALWAYS.

He covers the air game pretty well and has great set-up moves such as d-throw. You should always consider partnering with an MK.
 

Levitas

the moon
Joined
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Messages
5,734
Location
Ann Arbor, MI
Actually, how would you guys feel about discussing what lucas brings to a team and what he doesn't first?

If we can isolate what lucas needs in a teammate, it'll be easier to know what is good and bad in a potential partner.

obvious things lucas can do include KO, life tank (a bit), and zone within an extremely limited capacity.
 

#HBC | J

Prince of DGamesia
Joined
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Messages
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Location
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so start with Lucas as a teammate to begin then start with the characters? Sounds like a good plan to kick this thread off.

I'll post more but I just got home from my AP study session (z_z)
 

~Nasty~

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 11, 2008
Messages
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Location
Dtilt locking u across the stage
I LOVE DOUBLES!!! This thread looks like it'll be good.

Lucas is definitely tourney viable in dubz imo. He just needs the right partner. I'll post more later bc i'm about to go take a final. lol.
 

Chuee

Smash Hero
Joined
Jul 20, 2008
Messages
6,002
Location
Kentucky
Lucas is good at damage racking and killing in teams.
Not to mention so many of his weakness' are gone in teams.
 

#HBC | J

Prince of DGamesia
Joined
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Messages
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Location
Colorado
Lucas is so much better in team then 1v1. He can actually compete in high level competition on teams :laugh:

He can be healed by alot of characters with the PSI Magnet. His damage racking skills are good and characters that have an easier time killing can finish it.

With the healing aspect of Lucas he can stock tank quite well.

Lucas can also team with quite a few characters it seems though we can't know this till we discuss it.
 

O'chunks

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 28, 2010
Messages
163
Location
Aurora, CO
NNID
MrOchunks
Oh I'm doing this. But when is it going to start and who will be discussed first?
 

#HBC | J

Prince of DGamesia
Joined
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Messages
7,591
Location
Colorado
It actually starts now and we are starting off with a general discussion of Lucas in teams all together. We r not talking about Lucas dittos however ^_^
 

Levitas

the moon
Joined
Jul 20, 2007
Messages
5,734
Location
Ann Arbor, MI
ok, to start off, these questions should be answered:

What is lucas's role in a team?

What should lucas be doing at any given time?

Does lucas have a easy time with any of the following roles:
1. surviving forever
2. killing
3. splitting opponents up
4. 2v1 combat
5. his role in 1v2
6. attacking opponents who are engaging your teammate to open them up
7. racking damage without leaving himself open to the other player

That should be a good start.

IMO, lucas doesn't really excell in any of these, though it's possible to throw a pk fire to get someone off your teammate's back. Also, a good goal is to try to tank and let a teammate rack damage, then get the KO on a more beat-up opponent, similar to ness's role
 

~Pink Fresh~

Smash Master
Joined
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Messages
4,180
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Maryland
Killing and, with the right partner, surviving forever.

Lucario, is probably his best partner, with the high possibility of an off hand anubis strategy.

Pika is a bit better than ZSS as a partner imo

Thunder is just stupidly good in teams, and gives easy healing. and the synergy that can be created is ridic.

then comes ZSS controlling the air and spacing blah blah.

G&W isn't that good tbh.

MK is good, snake is good. DDD is good.

Lucas + Pika vids btw.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLzOjGRCuA8&playnext_from=TL&videos=AKBUSRJ_8lc Game 3 of a set. They banned our normal CP, so we decided to take them to an even better one lol. Felt bad afterward. nad CP v some chars on teams, works v MK/G&W/Wario. Iffy v snake/diddy. bad idea v samus.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmgH9oGmjTw&playnext_from=TL&videos=cXNjKk6flqw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chkNtwV2OXA&playnext_from=TL&videos=eMGKxI-XORs
We're all crewmates O_O.
obv we lost match 2. it was on BF, which seems to be a bad stage for lucas + pika. idk if that were a bad CP or not (they banned Green greens after seeing the match above LOL.) Originally thought to go to ps1, but I thought brinstar would be better, because those character suck on that stage, and, well we don't. Wanted lava combos into thunder + healing and early kills as well. Forgot Lucas + Pika needs alot of space tho O_o.
Plus, we never practiced Bstar :/

Lucas is a bit better at tannking with a healing partner, because his magnet heals more than ness' magnet. blahhh.

Pretty sure nasty has lucario + lucas vids ._.
 

#HBC | J

Prince of DGamesia
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I think on Levi's list Lucas does well 1, 3, and maybe 6/7 :S

Ill post the vids in one sec btw loved seeing those irl xD

Any vids would be nice Nasty :o

thanks everyone who is putting in the input so far and let's keep it up! :D

Edit: Video section added with our first contribution ^_^
 

Tokaio

Smash Journeyman
Joined
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Messages
251
Location
Edmonton, AB
ok, to start off, these questions should be answered:

Does lucas have an easy time with any of the following roles:
1. surviving forever
2. killing
3. splitting opponents up
4. 2v1 combat
5. his role in 1v2
6. attacking opponents who are engaging your teammate to open them up
7. racking damage without leaving himself open to the other player
I would say he's okay in all of these except for #5 and #7.
1. Mid-weight, and a good vertical and horizontal recovery
2. His smashes are ridiculously powerful
3. PKF and Nair are pretty nice for this
4. Dair is nice for setting up things like jab locks, or smashes. Grab Release --> U-Smash
6. PKF/PKT/PK Freeze

Overall, I would say Lucas is a pretty average doubles player. ZSS + Lucas would be pretty ****. I remember seeing a pretty crazy ZSS + Ness team.
 

c3gill

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 12, 2009
Messages
951
Location
VA
super glad i saw this thread :)

:lucas: Lucas: Punish Tank Gimmick
Carry- 2
Stock Tank- 6/9
Punisher- 9
DPS- 7
Great Offensive Support
Good Defensive Support
Moderate Interference Issues
Absorber
Energy Projectile (Punish/DPS)
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=9239846#post9239846

I think thats pretty much right on..... sexy stock tank, and pretty **** good at punishing.


and Lucas/Lucario team is brutal. and redic fun to play. cant wait to read yalls opinions on it!
 

#HBC | J

Prince of DGamesia
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Dekar's team thread is really good. Plus a really good read.

Wow everyone has different opinions on characters.

So far our characters that have been talked about for best are (no order):

:lucario:
:zerosuitsamus:
:snake:
:popo:
:metaknight:
:gw:
:pikachu2:
:luigi2:

I cannot wait to see who is better :o

One of my fav move's to use in teams if you can force an air-realease is what Tokaio said with the Usmash >; )
 

HailCrest

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Jan 29, 2009
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in lucas' upsmash
didn't someone say that ICs are completely unviable in doubles? you might be attracted to blizzard, but take into account that they are easily thrown around and separated in doubles...

and how can you guys talk about healing with magnet and only mention zamus once?

her dsmash heals 23% per hit, it lasts 33 frames. you can go from 92% down to 0% in the matter of time it takes an opponent to get back on stage.

anyway:

lucas is a quick punisher. he has slightly above average speed and his smashes all kill at around 100% assuming no DI. we all know that very well. as such, he looks for a partner who can set up kills. zamus' dsmash, dedede's dthrow are merely two candidates. and if your opponent makes one mistake around a lucas who's paying attention and who's on his game, you can bet you're going to eat a nice smash.

however, the fact is, he gets thrown around pretty easily. All his attacks have pretty horrible cooldown and are perfectly punishable, to the extent that he might not be there to punish when the opponent asks for it. as such, he also needs some babysitting in that sense.

in a partner, you shouldn't be looking for who covers lucas' weaknesses so much as someone who can bolster his strengths to ridiculous levels. zamus abuses his magnet. dedede can abuse his smashes. MK can rack up damage pretty well to help lucas get an early kill. if you're looking for someone who's good in the air, ness is one who fits that description; however the combo of two mother boys who can't carry very well on their own means a pretty easy loss if they are screwing around.

lucas needs someone who can handle 2v1 situations pretty well, who has plenty of quick, safe gtfo moves, who moves fast if lucas gets into a bad situation because those are what lucas lacks.
 

rPSIvysaur

[ɑɹsaɪ]
Joined
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Messages
16,415
Lucas' greatest strengths are his ability to kill pretty early compared to others (sort of like Gdubs), but unlike Gdubs, he has A LOT of cool down on his smashes. If he's going to be the punisher in doubles, he's going to need a good set-up. The people that first come to mind are:
MK D-throw
Snake D-throw
Falco D-throw
DDD D-throw
Gdubs D-throw
ZSS D-smash
Marth's throws
Pika F/D Throw

Another great strength of Lucas is his vertical spacing. However, Lucas generally lacks safe horizontal spacing. People that come in mind that are good at it are
MK
Snake
ZSS
ROB
Marth
DK

Next we need someone who can really capitalize Lucas' n-air. People who really can help include.
MK
ZSS
Gdubs
Pika
etc.

Now we all know that Lucas has a great ground game, but a lot of his aerials are just flat out beat by other things such as DDD b-air. Lucas would prefer someone great in the air.
MK
ZSS
Gdubs
Pika
Wario
Marth
Lucario
Ness

Lucas also has the ability to stock tank extremely well given his partner. The best ones include:
Lucario
ZSS
Pikachu
Ness
 

#HBC | J

Prince of DGamesia
Joined
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Messages
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Colorado
these two posts are great and chock full of information that is great!

So does everyone think we have what we need to say how Lucas is in teams?

So much information <3

If no one has anything else to input on how Lucas does in teams ill write up a summary then we can call in the GayKs, i mean MKs =P
 

Kole

Smash Lord
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Feb 6, 2010
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UCLA
I usually don't enter double so there's not much I can contribute. :'(
 

#HBC | J

Prince of DGamesia
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Summary is up and I will get the MKs in here to help us discuss how he helps us in teams. Imo MK is a possible 9-8. Not a 10 because he cannot manipulate his PSI Magnet with anything to heal, however, MK is just a great doubles partner in general.

We will follow the discussion format in the OP and now it starts!
 

#HBC | J

Prince of DGamesia
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thanks Scabe. I expect you to be here when we discuss Link :088:

:laugh:

Come on MKs, yes we suck but we still want input xD
 

~Pink Fresh~

Smash Master
Joined
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Messages
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Maryland
K,
let me clarify something.

Is this who's the best partner for lucas?
or who makes the best team?
because there is definitely a huge difference.
Mario/Luigi make amazing partners
That team is horrible.
 

#HBC | J

Prince of DGamesia
Joined
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Messages
7,591
Location
Colorado
K Im on vacation atm but I'll post because I don't want any confusion.

With this thread I want to see who would make the best teammate for Lucas.

However discussing how well the team can work is something that is also important to discuss.

Can't really post much so ill try and go more in depth when I get back

Sorry for the confusion Pink ;(

Edit: I added a new discussion step to the list.

Btw can anyone get @ least 1 dag on MK in here. XD
 

Kaffei

Smash Hero
Joined
Feb 8, 2008
Messages
7,048
MK da bess we support your poo recovery
live until 160 i can do that tank ****

EDIT: What is this I got an infraction for being the first MK to post something about MK & Lucas in teams.
We can support Lucas' recovery & tank! :(
 

#HBC | J

Prince of DGamesia
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Messages
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so what do us Lucas mains think of MK as a partner?

I say MK is definetely a viable teammate because......he is MK. Anyways I really don't think he is the BEST partner. The two do make a good team it seems however MK has no way of helping Lucas stock tank to the best way he can. MK is great in teams so i'd say a 8.5/9. he is good but not the best partner for Lucas sadly. Pretty dag on close though :laugh:
 

ZMan

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mk is good. does everything we can do and better! for the most part lucas is gonna be on the defensive shooting pk fires and keeping them stocks. mk is gonna be raking up the % so lucas can get the kill.

imo 9/10. great in every aspect but can't heal lucas, which is the only draw back of the team.
 

#HBC | J

Prince of DGamesia
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Messages
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So apparantly MK is a good doubles partner for Lucas though how can we know if only 2 people contributed so far :mad088:
-----------------
double post fail x_x

Would anyone mind if we came back to MK another time? We could move onto 2 teams that seem to be our best options and look the most fun.

Lucario or Pikachu? Speak now before I flip a pancake to decide.

----------------
Called the Lucario's in. Input would be liked ^_^

by liked I mean get in here and post for the love of god!
 

#HBC | J

Prince of DGamesia
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Messages
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Colorado
I know I probably should be asleep but meh I need to type this up while it is in my head.

Alright my summary on lucario. PERFECT 10 out of 10! Lucario is our best partner (imo) Such a great team <3

This is possibly one of the better teams in brawl that does not involve MK. Lucario can heal Lucas like crazy. and many other aspects of this team are just great. I will input later but this is just to start off.

Yes I am starting this off with my random spazz of this dynamic duo, but seriously Lucario is probably our best option as a partner. Plus if no one else post's here I will just edit this post with my personal take.
 

Steam

Smash Hero
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Lucas/Lucario is a great team until it runs into marth or MK =/

at least for Lucario there are many better team options, but Lucario is probably top tier in dubz so hes good with tons of people. With Lucario Lucas needs to be tanking, anubis or not. be sure to give Lucario port priority so you can assist him if he gets grabbed. A full AS (depending on aura) can heal you half a stock. Also keep in mind forcepalm flame heals you too. Lucas's killpower can be useful until we get our stock disadvantage and kill at 60% consistantly. That's all I can think of, its been awhile since I teamed with chunky
 

#HBC | J

Prince of DGamesia
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Messages
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Lucas is also higher tier in doubles. With this team Lucas needs to be stock tanking like a mother most of the time. *best quality*

Lucas would be playing the camp game more while Lucario goes after but that is just basically Lucas' best bet always. Also Lucas' punish game is great so these two can be such a ***** in 2v1.

AS is such a great healing move. Can AS be used to heal while you are holding the B button to charge it up i wonder. If so couldn't that help heal more? I really don't know but this has me curious to test it tomorrow. So we have two things from Lucario that heals us. Yay ^_^

Martha is mean to these two and MK is as well.
 

Steam

Smash Hero
Joined
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Messages
6,322
Location
Hell, Colorado
Yeah just about any character than can stock tank or plank makes a great Lucario teammate.

I dont think AS charge can be absorbed with magnet, even then it would heal really slowly. like really slow.
 
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