Lucario is Paw-some! - MWC: East Event #1- March 6-7th, Winona Lake, IN

[Blood_Hawk]

Weird. I didn't even know that rule was written like that.... I just copy/pasted from somewhere. lol

EDITED.

 

[ook]

I mourn for for the loss of Distant Planet and Green Greens

and PS1 being a neutral but Lylat not (???)



But other than that it looks pretty good, I'm so glad Japes and Mansion are back

 

[PEEF!]

That list isn't total garbage, but since there is a high ceiling stage like Japes, shouldn't Corneria be included?
*reads part about it being banned forever....hm. Nevermind.

PS2 is an absolute joke. Hopefully the TO's will eliminate that sh*t.

 

[Asdioh]

Halberd is a low ceiling stage, Japes is a high ceiling stage.

I guess Mansion is high ceiling too, but I have no idea why the hell that one's legal. It encourages camping and stalling to no end.

Lylat's not a neutral because we need an odd number of neutrals for stage-striking...I don't have a problem with 7 neutrals, but whatever. Lylat is stupid anyway.

Green Greens is fun, I'm not gonna lie. Distant Planet is ... it also encourages camping to an extent.

So what about Kirby/Dedede/Wario's/whoever else's suicide KOs? I'll go read the updated rules, but I find it odd that they're not mentioned at all..

 

[PEEF!]

Halberd is a low ceiling stage, Japes is a high ceiling stage.

Halberd has the same ceiling as the rest of the neutrals, it just has a raised main platform. I can't find a low ceiling stage on the list.

 

[Blood_Hawk]

Delphino is low in spots, and Cruise is pretty low as well. Brinstar is kinda low too if I'm not mistaken. Mansion is on the chopping block right now, but I kinda want to keep it. Dunno why. PS2 is meh. I kinda wanted some variety.

 

[Ripple]

instead of the arbitrary rule of stalling why not go with the rule AZ posted awhile back?

no more than like 50 ledge grabs in a game or else its a loss

 

[Blood_Hawk]

instead of the arbitrary rule of stalling why not go with the rule AZ posted awhile back?

no more than like 50 ledge grabs in a game or else its a loss

It would be hard to enforce that not to mention the fact that matches last a long time. 50 ledge grabs wouldn't exactly be uncommon..... I dunno, I don't keep track of how many times my opponent or myself grabs the ledge.

 

[MachinegunNorm]

instead of the arbitrary rule of stalling why not go with the rule AZ posted awhile back?

no more than like 50 ledge grabs in a game or else its a loss

no thats just stupid. I don't want little rules like this. i don't want to start to have to count the times i grab the ledge or do something.

(its like forcing a time limit without having a timer and you have time the match yourself otherwise you lose. (and the timer is only after the match.))

 

[Zankoku]

You don't have to count. The game counts for you. Third page of stats post-game.

 

[Kirk]

It would be hard to enforce that not to mention the fact that matches last a long time. 50 ledge grabs wouldn't exactly be uncommon..... I dunno, I don't keep track of how many times my opponent or myself grabs the ledge.

The game counts for you.

Crap I got beat. >.>

 

[DtJ Hilt]

70 is more reasonable. You'd have to grab the ledge like.. every six seconds. for eight minutes

 

[Mr.E]

I don't even know what my post count is, I just know it's pretty low. Let's see... And while we're at it, let's see the updated OP too. (INC one of my infamous long-*** posts)

With regard to the ceiling issue, Corneria brings additional problems that JJ does not. Halberd already serves as the stage with a slightly shorter ceiling as well, though not to the degree Corneria does (or to which JJ does the opposite). People have covered this well enough by now, though.

According to the Project Vertical thread, Mansion has a barely above-average (average being 80-85) ceiling height from the ground floor. JJ has a significantly higher ceiling. Halberd and Rainbow Cruise have slightly lower ceilings, not to mention almost every platform on anything not named FD.

PS1 is neutral because we need an odd number of stages for stage-striking. At this point, I'd say it's pretty universal that the other four starters are considered the most neutral and PS1/Lylat are just the two most "neutral" remaining. I assume PS1 is just more common because Lylat's tilting can really **** with edge recovery beyond what even FD or PS1 do.

Mansion is still allowed? That's surprising. I love the stage, even as an unbiased observer (i.e. not a ROB player) I would ardently support its inclusion, but I figured so many people hated it that it wouldn't possibly stick around. (Once we get an official revision of the SBR rules, I don't suspect it will.) I'm not getting into another argument about it in this topic, though, so I'll leave it at that.

Pirate Ship, boo!

I'm not a fan of PS2 because it's annoying as **** (stupid conveyor belts and floaty wind stage asdf) but I don't see the big deal with it otherwise. If anything, PS1 has the more "broken" transitions, not to mention the dumb ledges. Who the hell counterpicks PS2 anyway?

re: Ledgegrabbing. I'm interested to see what results AZ's tourney brings regarding the numbers, if people remember to keep track, but I have a hard time believing someone will go over 20 ledge grabs, let alone 50+, in a "legit" match. I don't believe in the rule, as I don't feel the strategy it means to limit (planking) is broken enough to need limited, but I understand the call for it; it's an objective measure for an otherwise subjective ruling. Planking falls under "running away from an opponent to reach a better position is not stalling" to me. :/ That's the only statement I'll make regarding it, I don't want in another one of these arguments either.

I'm not driving or anything, but Cincinnati would LOVE housing I'm sure for Saturday. I've had to make that terrible trip from 2-6 AM back to Cincinnati wayyyyy too many times now.

I'm hoping for the return trip to start around midnight this time.

WTF? Ganon? Why? His is determined by height of the over-b and by character size, not controller port.

Personally, I think it's as stupidly arbitrary to decide victory based on the relative size of the characters' hurtboxes as it is controller port. A suicide kill is a suicide kill. If Bowser does deserve a special exception, it should be because his potential suicide kill is a special exception (i.e. he can't really do it if he's not already in the lead, due to the control issue, where other suicide kills work regardless of percent) and not because we're picking and choosing which ******** methods the game uses we like or dislike.

The issue is especially relevant to Ganondorf because his Side-B is a viable recovery move, unlike other would-be suicide attacks. Is it fair to take it away from him on the final stock, in fear of his opponent jumping in front of his recovery and automatically winning? Ignoring glitches, no other character loses part of their moveset due to the way the rules are set up.

 

[Nope]

70 is more reasonable. You'd have to grab the ledge like.. every six seconds. for eight minutes

70 is way to many on average any given character will grab the edge less then 15 times. Look at it after every game you play. Most even less then 10 I think 30-40 is a way more reasonable number for this.

 

[DtJ Hilt]

nah, 50 is fine. 70 is fine too. It's only meant for people that plank (os lol). so if they plank, you can leave'm there and not worry. they'll have to come up sooner or later.

 

[Nope]

I don't think 50 is ok you fall off the edge every 7 seconds therefore in an 8 minute match you would be forced to regrab the edge 68 times in a match. But lets say you fight for half the match and it takes a very long time to kill each other. There are 2 minutes left in the match and I plank for the last 2 minutes of my last stock. getting only 45 edge grabs. Would you be mad? you sure would. I'm saying really look at your ledge grabs per game. Even when you think you did it a lot odds are it's under 25 grabs I promise. There is really no reason to grab the edge more then 40 times in one match without the intent of stalling.

 

[DtJ Hilt]

you would have to be pretty **** good to knock someone off the edge, without killing them, once every 7 seconds.

lol but we should discontinue this topic

 

[Asdioh]

How 'bout some of us test this rule next Friday to see how many edgegrabs is a realistic number?

We have Overswarm at our disposal so it may help

 

[Teebs]

Stage list has my stamp of approval for this tournament.

Also, I'd like to address an issue that we had at the championships, which is something that should be added to the rules (if it's on the OP, then disregard this post, I'm just too lazy and tired to go back and read it all), but if there happens to be some sort of power failure at a station, then that match will be restarted from the beginning, and NO REFUNDS will be given if you were winning and you end up losing. I can't remember who was totally upset about this at the championships, but sudden power failures are not at our fault. If this needs to be revised in any way (mainly talking to OS, Kel, and Hawk), then go ahead and correct it, but this is what I remember from all that.

 

[Blood_Hawk]

I did some thinking. Pirate Ship is gone, sorry Joshu. x3;

 

[MachinegunNorm]

what.. don't change the stage list D:

 

[Blood_Hawk]

what.. don't change the stage list D:

That will be the only change most likely. Pirate Ship was kinda meh. It's mostly just due to how dumb water camping is.

 

[Teebs]

I did some thinking. Pirate Ship is gone, sorry Joshu. x3;

I back this now, reasons make sense, other than the one stated above in Hawk's last post.

 

[lou4222]

That will be the only change most likely. Pirate Ship was kinda meh. It's mostly just due to how dumb water camping is.

Poor Infern and Kirk........ Ike got screwed by the stage list haha

 

[DtJ Hilt]

That will be the only change most likely. Pirate Ship was kinda meh. It's mostly just due to how dumb water camping is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7rxDeFkSKw

smart man xD

 

[Thinkaman]

Halberd has the same ceiling as the rest of the neutrals, it just has a raised main platform. I can't find a low ceiling stage on the list.

...what?

The distance between the stage and the upper blast zone is smaller than the other stages; that's what we call a "low ceiling".

I don't say I have a high ceiling because my house is X feet above sea level, I say it has a high ceiling because the ceiling is 10 feet from the ground.

Corneria and Green Greens can rot in a special place for eternity.

 

[Vayseth]

Hey, I'm going! People wanna buy my stuff it seems =D

As soon as I update my post I'll post it here for people to see.

WTP: If your car is ready by then I'll still drive it.

 

[Blood_Hawk]

Welcome back Vay Vay.

 

[PEEF!]

Please tell me there is no ledge grab rule. I've never done that many ledgegrabs, but that rule would be too much. And you are keeping PS2 Bloodhawk??.........?

 

[Teebs]

Hey, I'm going! People wanna buy my stuff it seems =D

As soon as I update my post I'll post it here for people to see.

WTP: If your car is ready by then I'll still drive it.

If you have any awesome DS items/games, let me know!

 

[Rob_Gambino]

I may possibly hit this up if I can somehow get a car pool or something going. Looks at Ripple/Chewy or Peef/Indianapolis crew. I close at work every fri, so I couldn't get leave until late fri/early Sat.

 

[Nope]

Please tell me there is no ledge grab rule. I've never done that many ledgegrabs, but that rule would be too much.

No probably not at this tournament but it might be something good for the future and it might be good testing grounds since so many matches will be going on and we could get a good feel for how the rule might be handled. Also if you have never had that many grabs then you'll never have to worry about it.

 

[Kel]

I like the stage list. I'm really glad that Mansion and PS2 are on because there is nothing wrong with them. They are great stages.

The ledge grab rule is pretty dumb. I'll tell you guys how it works out, considering JAPAN is the country that actually started that rule. It's just such a slippery slope, especially for something that is a needed game mechanic. What's next? Snake can only throw 20 grenades per match? Olimar can only throw 24.5 Pikmin? I'd rather not put arbitrary winning conditions on a competitive game. If the screen comes up saying "this game's winner is... *insert your character here*" then it should be that person that wins (exemptions from this example include dittos and sudden death).

Luigi's Mansion doesn't encourage camping more than any other stage. I just lost in the grand finals to AZ on PS1 by 4% due to time. I've never won by time (or lost by time) on Mansion. You can stall on ANY stage if you wish to do so. And if you don't believe me, I'll link you to me fighting Chewey...

 

[Blood_Hawk]

A little over a week left.....

Yesz!

 

[Dastrn]

Stage list is decent, I guess. All the starters are similar, though, and there's not enough of'em. Snake will always get a good stage, since there's no variety.

17 stages overall seems a tad light, but I suppose it will work just fine.

Good luck on everything, guys!

 

[_OraNoS_]

there isn't stage striking?

 

[Dastrn]

I would assume it'll be stage striking.

Perhaps the original post should be changed so it says "Starters" and not "neutrals".

 

[Mr.E]

Everybody should start on a good stage since the entire point of stage striking is to end up at the most neutral stage for the match-up in question.

 

[Dastrn]

Everybody should start on a good stage since the entire point of stage striking is to end up at the most neutral stage for the match-up in question.

The question is if everyone has a good stage in your list. THe most neutral of those 5 stages might not be any where close to neutral. The middle of 9 stages is much more likely to be a good stage.

 

[PEEF!]

Stage list is decent, I guess. All the starters are similar, though, and there's not enough of'em. Snake will always get a good stage, since there's no variety.

I agree there isnt enough. It isn't too late to add Lylat and one other such as Delfino to make the starters serve their purpose...