Lucario Brainstorm Thread (Updating Soon.)

[Kitamerby]

Oh yeah, so I was playing with pivot walking, which you can see here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sacIYsrRvq0
In terms of raw movement, lucario's got a pretty bad one, but I found out that the slide he gets from doing one iteration and then doing an fsmash is bigger than a strutter-stepped fsmash, like nearly twice as much movement! It was pretty cool, even if it is kind of hard to set it up.

Honestly? I'd rather initial dash, crouch to cancel it, then fsmash. It's faster and easier to use.

It's not nearly as flashy though.

 

[Timbers]

It works. (not hard to test/perform)

FP before touching the ground and you'll grab on what appears to be the correct frame just as if you had started on the ground(seemingly even if you land on the grab frame). Considering most grabs are frame 6, and some can't even grab aerial opponents, maybe we could look into blockstun on fair/dair for traps, or use it for mix-ups and cross-ups.

All one would need to abuse this would be memory on what distance FP would "auto-grab" on landing for at least slowfall, though maybe with a little more research we could find ways to abuse a fastfalled version.

uh are you sure on this?

I tested a while back and, if you landed on either his active grab frames or active frames on flame, you'd be interrupted by landing lag.

 

[Kitamerby]

uh are you sure on this?

I tested a while back and, if you landed on either his active grab frames or active frames on flame, you'd be interrupted by landing lag.

On the grab frame? I have no clue on frame specifics if you land ON the grab frame. I know that landing on Force Palm's Flame forces the flame to not even come out, but I have no idea about the grab. All I know is that if you start FP in the air and land before the grab frame you'll grab. No clue about if you land on the frame itself. That's really really tricky to test because I wouldn't know if I was a frame off and if I just landed after the grab frame or something.

 

[phi1ny3]

Honestly? I'd rather initial dash, crouch to cancel it, then fsmash. It's faster and easier to use.

It's not nearly as flashy though.

Your really gotta show me this "naritake step" via video, it really intrigues me, and whenever I "trot", I always have to deal with just enough skid to not be able to crouch when I need to.
And yes, this is more mindgame application than anything, but I see this as something I could use for myself, especially when I saw the boost you can get (it's much bigger than strutter step, it's walking which means you don't commit to stupid dash frames and can do other stuff (although I think I'd have to "customize" my control set with a shield button set to something to make this more viable), and it's just classy to do ;D)

 

[Kitamerby]

Your really gotta show me this "naritake step" via video, it really intrigues me, and whenever I "trot", I always have to deal with just enough skid to not be able to crouch when I need to.
And yes, this is more mindgame application than anything, but I see this as something I could use for myself, especially when I saw the boost you can get (it's much bigger than strutter step, it's walking which means you don't commit to stupid dash frames and can do other stuff (although I think I'd have to "customize" my control set with a shield button set to something to make this more viable), and it's just classy to do ;D)

here and here.

Note it's harder to do backwards like Innocentroads was doing.

 

[iRJi]

here and here.

Note it's harder to do backwards like Innocentroads was doing.

Hmm, Interesting.

 

[phi1ny3]

Yeah, I figured the backwards one was tricky.
But still good to use :D
I'll prolly end up incorporating both things lol, although this looks pretty useful.

 

[Timbers]

here

Note it's harder to do backwards like Innocentroads was doing.

this+ftilt works well against MK, try it out bros

 

[phi1ny3]

So basically, you dash and at the end of dash, you cancel very quickly with a crouch?
*goes to try again*

 

[iRJi]

BlazBlue RULES!

Anyway, this might be one of the more useful things that have been posted in a while. Ill go play with it later though, i am about o go get blazblue. Game is too good to pass up

 

[Timbers]

RJ knows what's up.

Just don't main Nu or Jin or you're a ***** for life.

 

[da K.I.D.]

Honestly? I'd rather initial dash, crouch to cancel it, then fsmash. It's faster and easier to use.

It's not nearly as flashy though.

why do you cancel it, its not slow on its own to just dash and than just wait for the animation to end and then f smash.

also, something that i have been putting into my game with great effect is grab releases and jabs

there are a lot of characters that dont slide out of jab range when you grab release them from a regular grab. and after the jabs you can either jab cancel the second jab into more jabs or just do a running grab. shield/roll will always be faster than lucarios jab, but most people are too flustered to think of that and either wont do anything fast enough to get out of the jab or will do something that gets outranged by the jab.

unfortunately since this isnt gauranteed, it will only work on most players at the most 4 grabs in a row. but when the opponent is over 100% and with lucarios stupidly fast pummel 4 grabs, 4 double jabs and a throw can mean some pretty massive damage

nobody that ive seen does this, and i dont expect anybody to in the future, so ima call it the KG combo lol


also, on heavy characters and fast fallers, i think the best way to rack damage is to mix and match the established methods that you already have. the FP can be broken out of, up tilts can be DId and up throws do crap damage. So if you have a spacie you can do something like...

up throw, up tilt, jab, up throw, up tilt, FP, FP, grab, pummel, jab, regrab, f/d/b throw

or if you have somebody like d3,

up tilt, FP, FP, up throw, up tilt, up tilt, fair, fast fall, run behind them and pivot grab, pummel, double jab cancel, double jab, grab, pummel fox trot backwards, f smash.

now these arent established comboes but they are just examples of the kind of pressure based mindgames you can put on people by mixing and match the different low KB moves you have for a lot of damage


thats the kind of stuff i do and it works pretty well so... idk

 

[Kitamerby]

why do you cancel it, its not slow on its own to just dash and than just wait for the animation to end and then f smash.

It's not only much faster, but you have no way to screw it up by dash attacking because you fsmashed too fast because you needed it early.

also, something that i have been putting into my game with great effect is grab releases and jabs

6 frame jab is kinda silly after a grab-release with no grab range imo. I get jabbed whenever I grab release people. The only character who can really pull this off is Squirtle with his 1frame jabness imo.

 

[hichez50]

They could smash DI out of the Jab, but you can still cath them in the FPG if fast enough i think

Also jiggs and other floaties could get thourgh this also what if you opponet jab is faster then what. It might work on large charaters like DK but its a start.

 

[HK Donut of the Blue Fire]

that tech looks beast is it useful *to lucario?

 

[iRJi]

RJ knows what's up.

Just don't main Nu or Jin or you're a ***** for life.

Jin isn't that bad lol. He is all tech chase and nothing legit. Though, he is very annoying.

V-13 is my ***** =D. Yea, she is my main and I will use her for tourneys, but for friendlies I Want to use Leichi, as well as haku-men

 

[hichez50]

has anyone tried some middle precent combos. With lucario aura ability lucario might be able to hit an opponet far enough then run and hit them again. I heard that peach has a 50-70% chain grab or something on some charaters.

 

[Aurasmash14]

BlazBlue RULES!

Anyway, this might be one of the more useful things that have been posted in a while. Ill go play with it later though, i am about o go get blazblue. Game is too good to pass up

So true...


anyway looking past Blazblue... What potential do you think the naritake step has for lucario?

 

[D. Disciple]

I like doing this, but I have done this before with other characters. I notice though, that Lucario's Fox Trot is extremely quick, so combining Fox Trotting with Naritake Step with a stutter step, is pretty epic.

 

[hichez50]

I like doing this, but I have done this before with other characters. I notice though, that Lucario's Fox Trot is extremely quick, so combining Fox Trotting with Naritake Step with a stutter step, is pretty epic.

whats is Naritake Step?

 

[Aurasmash14]

look at kitamerby's post.

 

[LordoftheMorning]

Hey guys. I'm going on a vacation on wednesday. I'll be sure to update the OP with all the recent stuff. And has anyone looked into the thing on B-reversal momentum cancelling?

 

[Timbers]

The only character who can really pull this off is Squirtle with his 1frame jabness imo.

er

quite a few characters benefit well from grab release, if only because it puts the opponent in a compromising position.

Jin isn't that bad lol. He is all tech chase and nothing legit. Though, he is very annoying.

V-13 is my ***** =D. Yea, she is my main and I will use her for tourneys, but for friendlies I Want to use Leichi, as well as haku-men

Jin's not even annoying, it's just that you can't do anything to him if he's in a neutral position because he outranges and/or outspeeds almost everything lol. It's just that most of his moves have this pretty hilarious afterlag to them so it's like ok we're pretty much just stallwarring here.

His pokes are pretty stupid though.

I'd smack you for maining Nu, but then you mentioned you like Litchi so everything is fine in the world.

 

[iRJi]

er

quite a few characters benefit well from grab release, if only because it puts the opponent in a compromising position.

Jin's not even annoying, it's just that you can't do anything to him if he's in a neutral position because he outranges and/or outspeeds almost everything lol. It's just that most of his moves have this pretty hilarious afterlag to them so it's like ok we're pretty much just stallwarring here.

His pokes are pretty stupid though.

I'd smack you for maining Nu, but then you mentioned you like Litchi so everything is fine in the world.

Lol, V-13 camps Jin, no need for him to be in a stall war there (thank god) Ranga has been giving me issues though, mainly because hes the character who is like " IM going to rush you until you ****ing die" and we all know that Nu's def. is ****

 

[Aurasmash14]

we all lurve Blazblue but pllease move it to the general chat >_>

 

[The_Bear735]

no AS, BB sucks. don't assume everyone loves it. :|

 

[Rayku]

I've seen the Naritake step before.

How exactly do you perform it? It looks really useful. Especially as Timbers said; it might make Ftilt more viable.

 

[Luxor]

Hey guys. I'm going on a vacation on monday. I'll be sure to update the OP with all the recent stuff. And has anyone looked into the thing on B-reversal momentum cancelling?

Toyed around with this for a while. Tested it with Zelda and Fox first, successfully used it for both of them. Then I got to Luke. I was testing an fair, nair, uair, and bair followed by an RAS. Results were lackluster; simply doing an aerial asap stopped me in the same place. No DI was used in either case, apart from the aerial and AS. Only possible purpose I can see this having would be to fire an RFCAS (if that is a word lol) to push yourself back onstage a tiny bit, but that's definitely not the best way to use a pent-up AS. Didn't bother to test dair, although on second thought it does have momentum whatchamacallit voodoo, and it's possible it could work in some arcane way, but I don't see it happening. My initial but by no means final diagnosis is that B-reversal DI is unavailable for Luke, or perhaps it's just pathetically weak. Agh, bad grammar all over the place, but whatever.

Oh yeah, I've been playing with Lucario more, and I'm starting to like him. I'm mostly around the Luke boards, lurking and hopefully improving.

 

[The_Bear735]

words

this reminds me to tell you all that psuedo'ing and b reversing are useless tactics that do useless things.

 

[phi1ny3]

Toyed around with this for a while. Tested it with Zelda and Fox first, successfully used it for both of them. Then I got to Luke. I was testing an fair, nair, uair, and bair followed by an RAS. Results were lackluster; simply doing an aerial asap stopped me in the same place. No DI was used in either case, apart from the aerial and AS. Only possible purpose I can see this having would be to fire an RFCAS (if that is a word lol) to push yourself back onstage a tiny bit, but that's definitely not the best way to use a pent-up AS. Didn't bother to test dair, although on second thought it does have momentum whatchamacallit voodoo, and it's possible it could work in some arcane way, but I don't see it happening. My initial but by no means final diagnosis is that B-reversal DI is unavailable for Luke, or perhaps it's just pathetically weak. Agh, bad grammar all over the place, but whatever.

Oh yeah, I've been playing with Lucario more, and I'm starting to like him. I'm mostly around the Luke boards, lurking and hopefully improving.

Don't mind Bear, he's got a point at times, but he's blunt .
On the subject, Bear, you do know what we're talking about, right? The zelda/fox boards have found an application for DI'ing attacks with momentum-changing specials that is essentially "bucket braking" in momentum canceling level. Nobody has really tried it for lucario, but considering we have both ASC and FP that change momentum, we have a shot at surviving to pretty high percents (like I said, think "bucket braking" but with some of these other specials)
Could you post the video examples of this again, LordoftheMorning?

 

[The_Bear735]

I'm sorry, but bucket braking isn't even that well used by G&W mainers. I don't see how we could make better use of it.


But anything is good at this point, I guess.

 

[D. Disciple]

Yes it is Bear, it really is. Nair-Bucket Brake is what GaW mainers use a lot lol.

 

[LordoftheMorning]

Guh. I'm gonna have to do the updating later. I still have to pack. Does anyone even read the OP anyways?

What we're talking about right now:
-Naritake Step
-B-Reversal "bucket break"
-Kita's jab hitstun phenomenon
-Pivot Walking
-Force Palm Aerial Descending Grab... thing
-SSK's dash attack combos

It's good to see so many topics springing up. I think I'll have access to a laptop so I'll be popping in now and then.

 

[Rohins]

Nice avatar bear xD

 

[Unknown Enigma]

You forgot the close combat variations mix-ups yea I am new person just trying to get good with lucario

 

[D. Disciple]

Nah I think he updated the close combat bit already Enigma.

 

[SuperSmashKing009]

the close combat is explained just enough for us to understand it. So ts pretty much done. All we need to do is try to put in our game and try it out.

 

[culexus・wau]

Lucario may be able to grab release Wario.

D Disciple01: remember when we talked about grab releases and forcing the air release?
D Disciple01: Well I have 100% confirmation that we can force air releases on wario into fsmash and dsmash
FlameWaveK: *just got home* Oh snapppppp
D Disciple01: can you post that up
D Disciple01: about the grab releases
D Disciple01: you can hit him with any of lucario's attack
FlameWaveK: Sure
FlameWaveK: how do we force the air release though
D Disciple01: kk thanks
D Disciple01: one hit
D Disciple01: we can do more than one hit
FlameWaveK: really? I've tried that it ussualyl doesn't work
D Disciple01: oh we just tried it
D Disciple01: we've done 1-3 hits
D Disciple01: it has to be a whole percent
D Disciple01: I can even make a quick video of it too
FlameWaveK: D Disciple01: it has to be a whole percent
FlameWaveK: this actually makes sense now.
FlameWaveK: due to the fact that
FlameWaveK: our pummel does like
D Disciple01: half a percent
FlameWaveK: yeah
FlameWaveK: sometimes worse too

 

[phi1ny3]

Also AS, especially at higher percents.

 

[Aurasmash14]

I wonder if this can help the wario matchup?