Lucario Brainstorm Thread (Updating Soon.)

[Unknown Enigma]

I saw some saying like dash attack with close combat against Ike I don't remember and to lazy to find but if we can incorperate certain definite damage combos or at least change the variation to keep the oppenent guessing (mixup) we greatly improve the ground game of lucario. I mean lucario with decent ground kinda like a tech chase combo thing lucario will be great sry I can't really test ne thing but think of me as the lucario moral support. LONG LIVE THE AURA

 

[Aurasmash14]

Dude what is wrong with you? slow down and put periods you sound like a hyperactive 5 year old.

 

[HK Donut of the Blue Fire]

i have a suggestion for close combat, seeing as how the way the combo looks to work, we need to develop a combo per weight class, like char 1-4 are light, so we develop a "light" close combat, and so on and so forth just an idea, :| i await my chewing out

 

[SuperSmashKing009]

sorry I haven't been online much guys for the dash attack combo thing I discovered I'll get right back to it, starting on monday I will do research on all the characters using uptilt to dash attack,

 

[ckm]

yeah I have been wondering about the breversal momentum cancel for a while now. I have tried it a couple of times, and couldnt really tell if it was working or not (didnt have a human to test it with). I always assumed people had thought about this... and that it would have been used if it actually worked. Of all the things weve been talking about.. I think this has the most potential for improving Lucario's MG.

Survival at high percents is soooo important to us. If we could even moderately improve our ability to live longer & maximize our aura boost, it would be soooo helpful.

Lets get on with testing this guys!!

Oh, and G&W's bucket brake is seriously broken--it is DEFINITELY used and used well by good GW players. It actually is really frustrating when they are good at it because they live way longer than they should.

 

[RT]

Lucario may be able to grab release Wario.

D Disciple01: remember when we talked about grab releases and forcing the air release?
D Disciple01: Well I have 100% confirmation that we can force air releases on wario into fsmash and dsmash
FlameWaveK: *just got home* Oh snapppppp
D Disciple01: can you post that up
D Disciple01: about the grab releases
D Disciple01: you can hit him with any of lucario's attack
FlameWaveK: Sure
FlameWaveK: how do we force the air release though
D Disciple01: kk thanks
D Disciple01: one hit
D Disciple01: we can do more than one hit
FlameWaveK: really? I've tried that it ussualyl doesn't work
D Disciple01: oh we just tried it
D Disciple01: we've done 1-3 hits
D Disciple01: it has to be a whole percent
D Disciple01: I can even make a quick video of it too
FlameWaveK: D Disciple01: it has to be a whole percent
FlameWaveK: this actually makes sense now.
FlameWaveK: due to the fact that
FlameWaveK: our pummel does like
D Disciple01: half a percent
FlameWaveK: yeah
FlameWaveK: sometimes worse too

I recently tried this against several Warios in friendlies and tournament matches, and it never worked for me. A few times while I was at low percents, and once while I was at high percents. It didn't work for me. I guess I was doing it wrong then?

 

[phi1ny3]

iirc not every character can air release, and if they do, they usually have to do it via dash/pivot grabbing to "force" it for some (like D3).

 

[Luxor]

Dude what is wrong with you? slow down and put periods you sound like a hyperactive 5 year old.

Don't go so hard on him, he is just a smash n00b. /irony

 

[SuperSmashKing009]

ok he are the results for upthrow to dash attack on all the characters it works on:

Captain Falcon(100% sure after 3 three grabs)
Falco (If he doesn't use shine, after 3 grabs)
Fox(If he doesn't use shine, 100% sure after 3 grabs)
Wolf(If he doesn't use shine, 100% sure after 4 grabs.)
King D3(possible with only one grab)
Ganon(100% sure after 2 grabs)
DK(100$ sure after only one grab)
Sheik(100% sure after 2 grabs)
Bowser(possible with only one grab)

 

[D. Disciple]

I recently tried this against several Warios in friendlies and tournament matches, and it never worked for me. A few times while I was at low percents, and once while I was at high percents. It didn't work for me. I guess I was doing it wrong then?

It's really weird, cause it was working a lot with me and my friend's Wario. I forgot to capture the video of it, but once I can get him to come over again. I'll make sure to put up a vid of it, to confirm it. But off the edge of the stage you can get the air release to work.

 

[D. Disciple]

Sorry for the double post, but I think we should bring this back up into discussion http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=197039

Totally fun to practice with Lucario.

 

[SuperSmashKing009]

Sorry for the double post, but I think we should bring this back up into discussion http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=197039

Totally fun to practice with Lucario.

wow thank you for taking my idea lol. I was going bring that back, because not many Lucario's use it. I think its really good to mindgame your opponent with. I use it to punish rollers as well.

 

[D. Disciple]

Well I was messing around with b-reversal AC after my aerials, empty hops and running off platforms, and remembered that Ninjalink showed us a lot of other things to do with AC. I still have trouble with the aerials, but eh with a bit more practice I'll probably be able to do it.

 

[SuperSmashKing009]

Well I was messing around with b-reversal AC after my aerials, empty hops and running off platforms, and remembered that Ninjalink showed us a lot of other things to do with AC. I still have trouble with the aerials, but eh with a bit more practice I'll probably be able to do it.

Its really cool to use. I use to do this combo right here. Uptilt>AC>reverse Fair>Reverse Nair>uptilt or FPG or Ftilt.

when I send them up with uptilt its enough for me to turn around and AC on them.I'll have to explain it to you in a video, if you don't understand.

 

[phi1ny3]

Honestly I think ASC has been overlooked, not as an attack, but using it more intelligently. I can't tell you how bad it is that it looks so telegraphed when done by the average lucario, considering your options to make it more unpredictable.

 

[SuperSmashKing009]

Honestly I think ASC has been overlooked, not as an attack, but using it more intelligently. I can't tell you how bad it is that it looks so telegraphed when done by the average lucario, considering your options to make it more unpredictable.

your right about that. Thats why I wasn't using it much because I usually use it for mindgames the most anyways.

 

[D. Disciple]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_EOSNeqmgqo this brought my attention back to asc a bit more than usual when I was browsing around for Lucario vids that I liked to watch back then.

 

[SuperSmashKing009]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_EOSNeqmgqo this brought my attention back to asc a bit more than usual when I was browsing around for Lucario vids that I liked to watch back then.

wowjust watching that video is like a good example of a pro Lucario.

 

[F1ZZ]

Ok I watched that video but I am a bit confused. What happened at 1:40?

 

[RT]

It's really weird, cause it was working a lot with me and my friend's Wario. I forgot to capture the video of it, but once I can get him to come over again. I'll make sure to put up a vid of it, to confirm it. But off the edge of the stage you can get the air release to work.

Yeah, I know if you grab someone off the (l)edge, you can force an air release. I've heard something about the opponent's legs can't be touching the ground in order to force an air release (which would explain why Lucario doesn't naturally air release Wario), but I don't remember if it's true or not. I do remember air releasing a Wario on the edge of Battlefield's platforms and then to uairing him.

 

[HK Donut of the Blue Fire]

Ok I watched that video but I am a bit confused. What happened at 1:40?

he reversed his aura sphere charge then air dodged

 

[Alus]

Ok I watched that video but I am a bit confused. What happened at 1:40?

I bet that it this is Wavebouncing more than anything...

 

[RT]

That was just Bsticking/Wavebouncing. Looks cool, but applications are limited. It's mainly used to change momentum in the air. Snakes do it a lot with nades.

 

[SuperSmashKing009]

alright guys tomorrow I'm going to post my data on uptilt to dash attack. So be prepared for a shocker. lol. Seriously be prepared might hit you hard.

 

[Aurasmash14]

) alright go and hit us with your best shot.

I got confused by the vid, at 1:42 it seemed like he grabbed the ledge.... while peach was still on it. O_O


Edit-ah yes i see it now. the peach floated.

 

[Alus]

I was just about to say......

 

[SuperSmashKing009]

ok he are the results for upthrow to dash attack on all the characters it works on:

Captain Falcon(100% sure after 3 three grabs)
Fox(If he doesn't use shine, 100% sure after 3 grabs)
Wolf(If he doesn't use shine, 100% sure after 4 grabs.)
King D3(possible with only one grab)
Ganon(100% sure after 2 grabs)
DK(100% sure after only one grab)
Sheik(100% sure after 2 grabs)
Bowser(possible with only one grab)

Now here are my other results on uptilt to Dash attack. (this only works at the start of the match when your opponent is at 0% and when your percentage is no more than 50%.)

Yoshi(100% sure)
Wario(possible but could be escapable)
Link(100% sure)
ZSS(100% sure)
Pit(100% sure)
Ice climbers(possible could be escapable because of Nana)
Rob(possible could be escapable)
MK(100% sure)
Kind D3(100% sure)
Falco(100% sure also could be done with uptilt>uptilt>Dash attack)
Pikachu(100% sure)
Squirtle(100% sure)
Ivysaur(possible but could be escapable)
Charizard(100% sure also could be done with uptilt>uptilt>Dash attack)
Marth(possible could be escapable because of dolphin slash)
Ike(100% sure)
Ness(possible but could be escapable)
Lucas(possible but could be escapable)
Snake(100% sure)
Sonic(100% sure)

Could someone please test this in a real match to see if its accurate. I would much appreciate it. This is good when you use it for Sheild>uptilt.

 

[phi1ny3]

Cool stuff SSK.
Also, I found a few cool new things about BF:
A: The gem underneath the stage is wall-clingable (not useful for recovery though since your wall jump won't make it without ES, at least when I tested it).
B: Lucario can actually travel under the stage all the way to the other side of the stage from ledge to ledge. The same applies with Smashville, but BF is bigger, so obviously more perplexing.
Cool things to remember when playing on BF, the latter one might be nifty for recovery (since we all Looove being edgehogged /sarcasm).

 

[RT]

Yeah, the wallcling on BF is practically useless. If it were the exact same as it were in Melee, it would be more useful. You can walljump off the sloped sides of BF. Not really useful except for random mindgames and random tricksies.

Whoever tests out SSK's data, make sure you try jumping/using a move our to escape it.

 

[phi1ny3]

Yeah, it's pretty useless, although I like the fact that those sloped sides "autosnap" any recovery in their range to the stage, which is the main reason you can get lucario to the other ledge.

 

[saviorslegacy]

Did someone say footstool?

u-tilt> Fair> footstool> Dair (to cancel the jump)> FF Nair right before you hit the ground> (IDK if this is a jab lock or not. If it is a jab lock then this is legit, if not they can tech it.) small aura sphere> (I had it force a get up once...) force getup> FSmash/repeat the combo if possible/didn't force get up> dash attack

This is very raw and not 100% proven yet. It is up to you guys to test it further.


:EDIT:
Fox trot can be canceled with a buffered duck. In other words you have a great spacing tool.
You can basically approach with jabs when using this......

 

[RT]

Did the person try to jump/DI out of it? Also, even if this works, it sounds like a low percent combo, and it would probably end up only doing like 25-30%. It makes me sad when Snake can ftilt twice and automatically do more.

I will say that fair->footstool does work depending on how well you follow their DI and the character.

 

[saviorslegacy]

Did the person try to jump/DI out of it? Also, even if this works, it sounds like a low percent combo, and it would probably end up only doing like 25-30%. It makes me sad when Snake can ftilt twice and automatically do more.

I will say that fair->footstool does work depending on how well you follow their DI and the character.

As I said "you test it."
This is just something that I found and hasn't been tested one bit.
The coolest thing about testing is that you usually find more stuff while you test.

 

[RT]

I rarely touch Brawl unless I'm playing with friends, so yeah...

I'm just stating that from what I read, it sounds like your opponent seriously did not try to escape the combo at all.

 

[Aurasmash14]

Cool stuff SSK.
Also, I found a few cool new things about BF:
A: The gem underneath the stage is wall-clingable (not useful for recovery though since your wall jump won't make it without ES, at least when I tested it).
B: Lucario can actually travel under the stage all the way to the other side of the stage from ledge to ledge. The same applies with Smashville, but BF is bigger, so obviously more perplexing.
Cool things to remember when playing on BF, the latter one might be nifty for recovery (since we all Looove being edgehogged /sarcasm).

I tried... I failed.

How exactly do you get him from ledge to ledge?


@SSK. Good **** dude. Ill help in testing.

 

[saviorslegacy]

I rarely touch Brawl unless I'm playing with friends, so yeah...

I'm just stating that from what I read, it sounds like your opponent seriously did not try to escape the combo at all.

Ditto... that's is why I haven't tested it. I pretty much gave up the game.
I was waiting for a reply in one of my posts and I saw this. So I decided to read it to see how my old main is coming along. I noticed that it said "footstooL" and there was nothing there. Me being someone who is obsessed with footstools (I made the Sheik footstool combo... and several others) I just had to try and find one for Lucario.

 

[RT]

I've been toying around with fair->footstool, but I haven't found anything super amazing out of it yet.

 

[Col. Stauffenberg]

If nothing else, it's at least an easy way to set up a dair and can put some characters into a compromising position offstage.

Just because Lucci doesn't have a jab lock type move (I think) doesn't mean footstooling isn't useful.

 

[saviorslegacy]

If nothing else, it's at least an easy way to set up a dair and can put some characters into a compromising position offstage.

Just because Lucci doesn't have a jab lock type move (I think) doesn't mean footstooling isn't useful.

correct
Just look at TL.
Bair> footstool> guaranteed Dair
That is what they use it for.

Lucario has footstool potential IMO. Just because his sphere forces a get up, Dair stops momentum and comes out fast, and that he has a jab lock move from the air.
In other words... he has the three out of four key points for a great footstooler.
(The fourth is a really good set up.)

Pikachu has all 4 of these.

 

[D. Disciple]

I've been toying around with fair->footstool, but I haven't found anything super amazing out of it yet.

Use it on Dedede's. Safest way to land a dair, and avoid a shield grab