Louie's Notes-Olimar Q&A Thread!!

[professor mgw]

Going to a tourney today, any quick tips for facing against Falco?

 

[DtJ Hilt]

Don't try to challenge him up close on equal standards. Falco has a lot of trouble landing if you can keep out of dair range. Especially against Olimar, whiffed dairs are easily punishable and Olimar is great at grabbing when an opponent is landing. Keep calm during laser spam, don't ever feel like you have to approach immediately. There will be several instances where approaching will run you right into Falco's superior tools, so you have to be patient. Don't throw Pikmin too much. You may find yourself with an opening that Falco can use to approach. You have to be ready for him to run or phantasm in, and if you're in the middle of an aerial pikmin toss, you're not going to be able to react as well as you need to.

 

[DtJ SquidBurrMoneyBurr]

goodluck today Prof.

 

[DtJ Hilt]

Let us know how it goes!

 

[professor mgw]

Lmao no Flaco to my surprise, I ended up facing 3 MK's & one Pikachu. .---. Lost to jtail's mk 2-0, beat RJ's mk 2-0 & lost lost to Smurf's mk 2-1. Barely lost to smurf, I got up-b'd early second stock so it was hard to bring it back, went to last hit & I got D-smashed. ._.

 

[Sky Pirate]

THREE MKs? Wow, sorry to hear that.

 

[DtJ SquidBurrMoneyBurr]

Good job though, meta knight is a slippery pickle.

 

[professor mgw]

@Sky Pirate: That's life :/
@DtJ: Lol thanks, them pickles man...

 

[BSP]

What are Olimar's methods for dealing with Luigi's Jab -> Up B? I'm pretty sure I've heard he can SDI to at least whistle it, or something.

 

[DtJ Hilt]

From what I understand, if the jab is staled enough, Olimar can whistle it but I'm not sure what the frame window is. Pretty sure this doesn't work if it's fresh (although I could have it backwards, in all honesty), but when is Luigi's jab fresh? Most Olimars wouldn't be able to consistently whistle the Up B after the jab consistently. That said, Olimar has the tools to efficiently keep Luigi out enough to where it's not that huge of a matchup changer. But it's enough to even things out.

 

[Sky Pirate]

Looked a bit of it up on the Weegee boards and played with it for a bit with the frame-by-frame.
As stated in the Luigi Jab thread and confirmed in this thread, Luigi has three hitboxes on his Jab1 that affect when you land and the window you have to input whistle.
This seemed to be the progression for a fresh Jab1 to UpB with no SDI on a grounded Olimar:

Frame 2 - Luigi jab hits
Frames 3-7 - Hitlag
Frame 20 - Oli's FAF, regardless of hitbox
Frame 21 - Luigi's FAF and earliest whistle superarmor can be out
Frame 22 - Last chance to input whistle - Hitbox 3
Frame 23 - Last chance to input whistle - Hitbox 2
Frame 24 - Last chance to input whistle - Hitbox 1
Frame 26 - Earliest Luigi's UpB can be out

Oli lands normally on frame:
Hitbox 1 - 25
Hitbox 2 - 24 (according to the Weegees' data; I kept getting 25, but I think I was still hitting with hitbox 1 ^^; )
Hitbox 3 - 23

So it seems that you can powershield Luigi's UpB if hit by anything but hitbox 1. Otherwise, you're going to be whistling.
Whistle works with any option or range since it continues even after Olimar lands.

The aforementioned Jab thread states that decay doesn't affect knockback, but it's also an old thread. I don't entirely know that that's actually true.

This all assumes no SDI, of course. SDI can give you a lot more time to input these things, but I doubt anyone's going to be consistently able to SDI Luigi's jab on reaction.

 

[Youngster Joey]

whats a common mistake new olimars make? im about to pick him up and i wanna avoid the obvious mistakes as early as possible

 

[kelumhi]

@jellybeanman, You asked this question a little while ago, below are the answers that were given, found a couple pages back in this thread:

Common new Olimar mistakes? All right, I can take a shot at that.

- Rolling to get around -
Rolling as an evasive action isn't necessarily bad (unless you're being super-predictable about it), but frequently rolling (like to get around) can get you punished. If you're having trouble staying onstage or maintaining stage control, this may be a contributing factor.

- Not spacing Fsmash -
Fsmash is a trap. It has a long-lasting hitbox that can outlast spotdodges/airdodges and can catch people running in. It can be somewhat safe if you're using it properly, but if you're hitting shields point-blank with it, you're going to get destroyed.

- Jabbing everything -
This one is probably just me, but I used to jab to cover everything and got punished a bit for it.

- Recovering improperly -
You have a few options for recovery, but you have to pay attention to what the opponent is doing. When you're knocked away and after you've finished momentum canceling, look for a purple in your line and use Uair or whistle to bring it to the front (if you have enough time). Purple toss is a useful tool for recovery (knocking them off the ledge, forcing them to evade/take a hit if they're coming out to gimp you, etc.) and you can still Uair them off the ledge if you need to. If a purple isn't available, look for a yellow. The larger hitbox means a slightly larger window to tap them off of the ledge with Uair.
Olimar has some good offensive options (aerials and pikmin toss) and defensive options (whistle, whistle bounce, airdodge, footstool) and you aren't restricted to using just one tactic to recover. It's quite common to mix whistle with an offensive option (like whistle to Nair). Fastfalling and immediately airdodging is also incredibly useful, but you need to be careful about doing that out over the edge. Like Hilt said, you should pay attention to when you use your double jump. Different people have different preferences, but many Olimars prefer to come up from below the opponent with a DJ Uair or hold a purple to throw from stage level to clear the ledge.
Sorry, I've forgotten where I was going with this. The point is that Olimar has some good tools for recovering, but you do have to actively think about what you're doing. If you do get smacked with something with some horizontal knockback (or low knockback, depending on where you are) after using your second jump, there is a good chance you're losing a stock.

Sky Pirate brought up good points, and those are definitely problems you'll see in a lot of Olimars. The first two involve options that Olimar has that aren't necessarily bad options, just bad situations in which the options are used.

What the first three involve is the situation of the Olimar being too close to his enemy. Rolling haphazardly in fear, fsmashing anxiously, jabbing out of habit are all mistakes you'll see made when the Olimar is closed in on. Regarding the third, Olimar's jab is very, very flawed. Even if the opponent is hit by the first hit of the jab, the last hit is not guaranteed. They're able to shield the last hit and punish you for it. Be careful when using jab. If you're able to get the move off, it's actually worth it (it does 15%, which isn't bad for a frame 4 jab), but it's way too easy to get punished for it.

What was said about fsmash can also be applied to grab. Grab is not fast, by any means. Not to mention the fact that Olimar doesn't get grab armor, like every other character does. So when competing with another move the opponent might through out, grab will oftentimes be beat out at point blank.

And to add one to the list, try to DI up, all the time. Its really the only way not to get gimped.

 

[Roy Renard]

What is the best way to deal with Toon Link's down smash when you are at low percentages and you get hit at the edge of the stage? As you know the horizontal knockback sends you fairly far away, so Toon Link can easily edgehog as soon as he hits you, making Up B practically useless. I tried SDI'ng out of the second hit, but apparently you can't, and even DI'ing up leaves you somewhat hopeless.

 

[Dnyce]

What is the best way to deal with Toon Link's down smash when you are at low percentages and you get hit at the edge of the stage? As you know the horizontal knockback sends you fairly far away, so Toon Link can easily edgehog as soon as he hits you, making Up B practically useless. I tried SDI'ng out of the second hit, but apparently you can't, and even DI'ing up leaves you somewhat hopeless.

Throw pikmin.

 

[Tesh]

Don't get downsmashed at 0%. Just camp him until you are above 30ish and the 2nd hit will start sending you up.

 

[Dnyce]

Don't get downsmashed at 0%. Just camp him until you are above 30ish and the 2nd hit will start sending you up.

When he says above 30ish, he means 24% lol


Also, the second hit sends you up, so I'm not sure why you're trying to avoid that part. If anything you want to SDI down.

 

[Roy Renard]

Throw pikmin.

The guy with whom I played just stayed at the edge, no matter how high his percentage was. Since the only Pikmin that can cause knockback are purples, I have to get closer in order to try and get the kill, thus, risking myself to get downsmashed.

 

[kelumhi]

The guy with whom I played just stayed at the edge, no matter how high his percentage was. Since the only Pikmin that can cause knockback are purples, I have to get closer in order to try and get the kill, thus, risking myself to get downsmashed.

I was under the impression that olimar could out projectile toonlink. if this is the case, just don't engage and keep throwing pickmen.

After a while you should have enough of a lead to just use any smash, arial, or a throw to kill him. If his D-smash is still a problem, just try to stay with him closer to the edge, that way the horizontal knockback doesnt matter.

I also might be wrong on this, but I beleive that properly shielding/F-smashing on our part should eventually lead the Toonlink into the air...

 

[Sky Pirate]

The guy with whom I played just stayed at the edge, no matter how high his percentage was. Since the only Pikmin that can cause knockback are purples, I have to get closer in order to try and get the kill, thus, risking myself to get downsmashed.

If he's just sitting at the edge, perhaps you should consider farming for something like... five purples and a yellow.
The Yellow should make it incredibly easy to hit him with an Fsmash from a safe distance if you have trouble spacing it, and the purples should give you a good advantage when he respawns.
If he's throwing out projectiles, take advantage of that to learn the timing to powershield them. Shouldn't be a problem since he's not going anywhere. When you get tired of it, suppress them with pikmin and get in range for whatever it is you plan to do.

Olimar has so much range on his attacks and a mechanic that allows him to gain an advantage when he's left alone (the different colors of pikmin).
Someone waiting at the ledge for a Dsmash shouldn't really be a problem.

 

[Dabuz]

The guy with whom I played just stayed at the edge, no matter how high his percentage was. Since the only Pikmin that can cause knockback are purples, I have to get closer in order to try and get the kill, thus, risking myself to get downsmashed.

That is the BEST situation for Olimar to be in. Throw away every pikmin that isn't a purple + yellow at low percents, blue at high percents. Get a perfect line up, then proceed to win.

 

[Dnyce]

The guy with whom I played just stayed at the edge, no matter how high his percentage was. Since the only Pikmin that can cause knockback are purples, I have to get closer in order to try and get the kill, thus, risking myself to get downsmashed.

I honestly don't see how you can state the answer to your problem in the explanation of why it is giving you trouble .-.

Person stays at the edge. Purple pikmin have knockback.

>_>

<_<


Use that time to get better pikmin, then use them. lol. If he goes away from the ledge, then obviously the dsmash isn't a problem anymore (should never be a problem to begin wtih). In the most extreme case of camping, purple pikmin will kill before bombs, lol.

 

[Tesh]

He wants a quick solution, but Olimar is all about slowing down gameplay and whoring out long and mid range play.

Everyone already told you not to approach him until the risk is death is gone. Just do that. Play smart, don't be a hero.

 

[kelumhi]

Can you whistle bounce to momentum cancel?

 

[BSL]

Interesting

 

[Youngster Joey]

@jellybeanman, You asked this question a little while ago, below are the answers that were given, found a couple pages back in this thread:





And to add one to the list, try to DI up, all the time. Its really the only way not to get gimped.

thanks for this. i dont think i really have problems with this. i think i just have to get better for now since my recovery is getting better still and i dont have the other problems. i feel that recovery is always a problem for the most part tho.

i just started to all out main olimar like 4 days ago or something. how do i start improving faster with him? right now i mostly just do standard olimar stuff like pivot grab and throw pikmin with some stupid techs like grabbing them off the ledge and usmash oos. i beat average players pretty consistently but when i take a step up i have almost no chance with a few close games here and there

 

[Sky Pirate]

Well, playing those players that beat you a lot is a good way to start.

- Don't focus on the fact that you're losing, but rather WHY you're losing.
Good opponents will adjust when you start adjusting to them, so you can't get one concrete view of what they will do.
Figure out their mix-ups and try to practice conditioning and prediction.

- Getting replays to watch is quite important, as repeated rewatching can help you to discover your problem areas, analyze the opponent's movement, find the methods people are using to get in, etc.

- Playing on your own (with a still opponent or a level 1 CPU) can help you to get a feel for Olimar.
Don't rely on CPUs for matchup experience, only for a punching bag.

Umm... I'm sure I'm forgetting things, but it has been a while.

 

[DtJ Hilt]

Definitely a vague question, not gonna lie. Haha. Is there something specific that these players are doing? Something that sticks out that the average players may not do?

Edit: Oh hey clover bby <3

 

[Youngster Joey]

well the average players rely on playstyle and the only reads they really get are spotdodge/roll and get up from the ladge stuff. these guys read my attack patterns and stuff. like one of them beat logic and has mu experience. i havent played my other friends who are better than me yet tho. only once before i started with him and they were somewhat close i guess. i guess my question is what do olimars look for to win?

 

[kelumhi]

- Playing on your own (with a still opponent or a level 1 CPU) can help you to get a feel for Olimar.
Don't rely on CPUs for matchup experience, only for a punching bag.

This helps a surprising amount. Knowing your hit boxes as well as having a good understanding of how long before you can throw out other moves makes it really easy to get better when playing against other players.

 

[Youngster Joey]

by playing lv 1 cpus and other low cpus what exactly am i supposed to be practicing? i have wifi but that doesnt really improve my gameplay so much as look for reads and mu experience. im looking for ways to get good mix ups and tricks and be able to use them effectively. i can only do that in tournaments really but its kinda too late by that time :/ plus i dont go to as many as i'd like

 

[SSS]

by playing lv 1 cpus and other low cpus what exactly am i supposed to be practicing? i have wifi but that doesnt really improve my gameplay so much as look for reads and mu experience. im looking for ways to get good mix ups and tricks and be able to use them effectively. i can only do that in tournaments really but its kinda too late by that time :/ plus i dont go to as many as i'd like

Spacing. Experimentation with different ways of approaching and following up. Like, sure, you could Dthrow to Chain, but you could Dthrow to Fair. You could Dthrow to Uair to Nair. Practicing stuff like that. Work on stuff like pivot grabbing. Spiking above the ledge. Basically just creating a flow chart in your head of all the different possible things you could do. Getting an idea of what kills when. Feeling out the character, figuring out where each move puts them and what come after. Stuff like that.

Mainly, though, I'm going to say figuring out all of your possible options, practicing them to get them down, and then later applying those options when you actually fight.

 

[lokt]

Hey guys, I would like to know what to do with olimar versus mk's glide attack. I often try to pivot grab it, but meta knight can glide slightly above the pivot grab range. If I try to shield it, I usually end up being hit right after by mk's down tilit or tornado.

 

[BSL]

Power shield cancel into upsmash.

 

[Tesh]

If its spaced properly, you can't do anything. You just need to read his intentions. Max spacing usually involves slowing down so he doesn't slide into you, destroying his range advantage and you can pivot grab him if he is low enough to land right after the attack.

Also just nairing will work. You don't have to sit in your shield and wait for upsmash. Thats exactly why MK is gliding at you, he wants a safe options so just nair him first.

 

[Youngster Joey]

what do i do about being forward air combo'd by marth? the marth i play usually gets me off stage and proceeds to fair me so we're both pretty far off. i can recover most of the time but it puts me in a bad position and he should be able to easily gimp me but he either messes up or i do everything right. any advice on how to get out of the combo faster?

 

[BSL]

Whistle maybe? Not sure, it's been a while since I played oli vs Marty. Whistle sounds like a good option.

 

[Dnyce]

For glide attack, it is ideal to latch pikmin onto mk either as he goes into glide or before he gets close enough to punish your pikmin toss. For the most part, good mks will cancel their glide early after the pikmin is latched (or about to latch). The additional lag of hitting a pikmin with glide attack allows Olimar to punish with just about anything he wants, so it becomes really unsafe.

 

[lokt]

Thanks for the answers to my question. I was wondering, is there any controller set-ups that are more effective for playing olimar then the standard one? I heard of players using b-sticking or setting r to attack, are any of these control methods better?

 

[SSS]

Thanks for the answers to my question. I was wondering, is there any controller set-ups that are more effective for playing olimar then the standard one? I heard of players using b-sticking or setting r to attack, are any of these control methods better?

I think B-sticking helps with Wavebouncing?
And R for attack is probably for a couple of specific ATs or something.
I set Y to grab and Z to jump. I still mostly use X to jump, but the Z is helpful for rising aerials and stuff.