Hi olimar mains, I just read m2k's guide on how to play the olimar mu with mk and found that it is really useful in listing mk's tools in the mu. I'm now wondering about whether or not I'm using all of olimar's landing tools vs mk since m2k doesn't refer to many of olimar's landing options in specific. Currently, when vertically above mk, I land by whistle to nair, dair if mk chases me, air dodge to up smash, and just grab as a mixup. Are there any other useful landing options that I should be aware of? I'm also wondering if there is a way to di out of tornado. I ask this because I've watched a lot of nietono videos where he is just popped out of tornado instead of being sucked in and I haven't been able to replicate this. Do I just hold the control stick away from mk? Thanks in advance.
-
Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
Louie's Notes-Olimar Q&A Thread!!
- Thread starter Zori
- Start date
DtJ Hilt
Little Lizard
Dair is a poor option to use when landing (or just about ever, really), especially against MK. Yellow Dair has its moments where it can catch opponents off guard, but I wouldn't rely on it.
Whistle -> Nair is solid, you're okay there. Well, to be more specific, whistle in general. You may not want to Nair always, you may instead just want to get space. The delay between the cooldown of whistle and the startup of nair may get you hit. Also if you fall through MK and throw out Nair anyways, you may be left open if it misses him.
Trying to counter MK when he's attempting to punish your landings usually has you at the disadvantage by a lot. Usually in this situation you would want to prioritize getting yourself to safety, rather than attacking.
If you're not directly vertical of the opponent, a purple pikmin can be a life saver. The moment Olimar is most vulnerable is the moment right before he hits the stage. If you can throw a purple pikmin during that window, it can oftentimes be enough to allow you to land. And if it hits, you can regain stage control or even put pressure back on the opponent at times.
Again, if you aren't directly vertical of him, fair is really good as well, especially with a yellow.
Whistle bouncing (shifting your momentum) is also great as well to either throw the opponent off, or to get the horizontal space you need to give yourself more options.
Whistle -> Nair is solid, you're okay there. Well, to be more specific, whistle in general. You may not want to Nair always, you may instead just want to get space. The delay between the cooldown of whistle and the startup of nair may get you hit. Also if you fall through MK and throw out Nair anyways, you may be left open if it misses him.
Trying to counter MK when he's attempting to punish your landings usually has you at the disadvantage by a lot. Usually in this situation you would want to prioritize getting yourself to safety, rather than attacking.
If you're not directly vertical of the opponent, a purple pikmin can be a life saver. The moment Olimar is most vulnerable is the moment right before he hits the stage. If you can throw a purple pikmin during that window, it can oftentimes be enough to allow you to land. And if it hits, you can regain stage control or even put pressure back on the opponent at times.
Again, if you aren't directly vertical of him, fair is really good as well, especially with a yellow.
Whistle bouncing (shifting your momentum) is also great as well to either throw the opponent off, or to get the horizontal space you need to give yourself more options.
mimgrim
Smash Hero
Ok so my question isn't really asking about gameplay tips for Olimar or anything like that. What 'm looking for is a sub to cover Olimar's weaknesses. I'm leaning greatly towards Marth but am just not sure... I have seen many people say Falco but i don't fill comfortable with Falco... If I were to sub a Spacie it would have to be Fox or Wolf....So yea other then Falco what good subs are there for Olimar? Or is Marth a good sub? x.x
Roy Renard
Smash Cadet
Meta Knight is a good sub for everyone and everything.
mimgrim
Smash Hero
Your not going to believe this but I suck with MK. lol
Sky Pirate
The best defense is a lot of frigging healing
Olimar does really well on his own and the characters he loses to are difficult to cover.
If you believe the match-up chart, Pikachu would cover Metaknight and Falco. I've heard arguments that Pikachu doesn't really cover MK though, so I'm not certain how reliable that is.
Marth and Dedede both cover a few of Oli's even matchups well, so you might consider them if you really need a second character.
If you believe the match-up chart, Pikachu would cover Metaknight and Falco. I've heard arguments that Pikachu doesn't really cover MK though, so I'm not certain how reliable that is.
Marth and Dedede both cover a few of Oli's even matchups well, so you might consider them if you really need a second character.
1PokeMastr
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Dec 10, 2009
- Messages
- 2,251
Sub Diddy.
PEACE7
Smash Champion
Is nair to upsmash ever a true combo?
DtJ Hilt
Little Lizard
It's very often a true combo. The only situations where it isn't is when the last hit of nair hits, or when you allow them to DI out of the Nair.
TM_icecream
Smash Ace
but you can SDI Nair so it isn't a true combo, it's just really really hard to get out of it.
but it is possible. Which means it isn't true
but it is possible. Which means it isn't true
DtJ Hilt
Little Lizard
Whether or not it's a true combo is based on how Olimar overlaps the opponent and both of your distances from the ground. There are points where all the SDI in the world can't get you out of the combo. "Nair to Up Smash" is not always a combo, but that is not what the question was, how it was asked, or the answer that was given. PEACE7 asked if it was "ever" a true combo and yes, TM_icecream, there are situations to where it is.
For example. The only reliable direction to SDI out of the attack when both characters are properly overlapped vertically is upwards. If the opponent is between you and the ground but not low enough to the ground to SDI down, land, and shield, then it is a true combo (granted they aren't too far to the side, which would be the Olimar's fault). You will land before the opponent because of the speed that you are falling and the opponent will not be able to SDI up enough to get out of the attack. SDI'ing the attack to the left or right is not reliable unless the Olimar messes up the Nair and is too far to the side of the opponent.
I'm not sure how much you know about SDI or how it works, TM_icecream, so I'll stick with the basics. You can only SDI individual hits and Olimar's Nair doesn't, in fact, have that many hits tacked on to it. And these individual points of contact do not all need connect before attempting the up smash. In fact, it's required that not all of them do. The amount that will is, again, dependent on the distance between Olimar and the ground. It's very possible and very easy to only hit the opponent with two hits of Nair before landing. These don't even need to be the first and second hits. SDI'ing out of this (unless the starting position is completely off because of the Olimar's spacing) is impossible. Thus it being a, by definition, true combo.
For example. The only reliable direction to SDI out of the attack when both characters are properly overlapped vertically is upwards. If the opponent is between you and the ground but not low enough to the ground to SDI down, land, and shield, then it is a true combo (granted they aren't too far to the side, which would be the Olimar's fault). You will land before the opponent because of the speed that you are falling and the opponent will not be able to SDI up enough to get out of the attack. SDI'ing the attack to the left or right is not reliable unless the Olimar messes up the Nair and is too far to the side of the opponent.
I'm not sure how much you know about SDI or how it works, TM_icecream, so I'll stick with the basics. You can only SDI individual hits and Olimar's Nair doesn't, in fact, have that many hits tacked on to it. And these individual points of contact do not all need connect before attempting the up smash. In fact, it's required that not all of them do. The amount that will is, again, dependent on the distance between Olimar and the ground. It's very possible and very easy to only hit the opponent with two hits of Nair before landing. These don't even need to be the first and second hits. SDI'ing out of this (unless the starting position is completely off because of the Olimar's spacing) is impossible. Thus it being a, by definition, true combo.
tekkie
Smash Master
soooooooooooooooooo... tell me about metaknight :3
Hoenn
Smash Journeyman
I have a little bit of a pikachu problem in my state (It's ironic that I'm a pika main), and I'd rather go olimar than ditto. I also have an Olimar problem with my pikachu. (I don't want to go ICs, falco, or MK on olimar.)
Does pika have any safe approaches? Does olimar really win with a +2 matchup? I can understand this from both viewpoints, but this matchup always seems to confuse me.
Does pika have any safe approaches? Does olimar really win with a +2 matchup? I can understand this from both viewpoints, but this matchup always seems to confuse me.
DtJ Hilt
Little Lizard
Meta Knight vs Olimar isn't pretty but it's pretty back and forth on
1. What specifically is giving you problems from facing Meta Knights?
2. Any moves in particular that you don't know how to either punish, beat, or avoid safely?
3. What do you attempt currently against 1 and 2?
We can do one or two specific points at a time and work from there.
How about we play it this way, it'll probably work a lot better. If you're asking for advice on the matchup (I assume you are), I'd like to tackle what's giving you the most problems. Otherwise I'd be wasting both of our time either spouting points that you already know or missing the actual problem. So:
1. What specifically is giving you problems from facing Meta Knights?
2. Any moves in particular that you don't know how to either punish, beat, or avoid safely?
3. What do you attempt currently against 1 and 2?
We can do one or two specific points at a time and work from there.
Sorry that I can't give much help from the Pikachu's perspective. As for the other way around, do you have Up Smash OOS down? Because it shuts down just about every aerial Pikachu has that he'll try to approach with. Don't throw Pikmin too wildly. Don't be afraid to shield all of his downsmash. It won't poke you and you'll get a free grab or up smash. Purples are beautiful and yellows are okay I guess. Not the other way around. As far as I know, most approaches Pikachu has are shut down by either Pivot Grab or Fsmash, alternate between the two but don't get predictable. Don't spam up smash oos. It's beautiful, but you want to be able to surprise him with it for a kill. Doesn't mean to never up smash with it, but ration it out. Stay out of the air. Keep him in the air, Pikachu landing against Olimar is... well, you probably know.
Hoenn
Smash Journeyman
Is it possible for pikachu to approach by using the priority of the pikmin lineup against him?
I was told that different colors beat different moves. Am I at all correct on that?
I was told that different colors beat different moves. Am I at all correct on that?
DtJ Hilt
Little Lizard
Kind of, but it's nothing dramatic. The main things to remember are that purples beat just about everything and whites beat just about nothing. Steer clear of purples, expecting to approach through a purple pikmin toss is bad enough, but if you hit his shield they kill a lot earlier than the other colors. Yellows have more range than the other colors because of the electricity and are the only ones you can't attack mid attack to cancel the hitbox. So they'll be a pain for pikachu as well.
It's usually not a matter of "This color beats this attack but this color doesn't beat that attack" in this matchup, just a matter of what ways Olimar has for keeping him out and punishing his approaches and what Pikmin are better at doing that than the others.
That said, purples are great at keeping Pikachu (and most characters) out with Purple Pikmin Toss. They're good for punishing easier situations but the option of a well spaced pivot grab or fsmash with them is nonexistent.
Don't let a blue grab you at high percents. Many Olimars will be looking for a pivot grab when he has a blue coming up so don't fall into it.
Yellows have more range so don't be surprised if he beats out your aerial approaches when one's up. Fsmash's hitbox is really good with them too. Be careful. That said, they don't have very much kill power.
Reds are mostly good for smash and aerial kill power. Don't worry about getting grabbed but watch out for an up smash oos or a punish for the kill.
Whites are garbage. Let loose if he has one coming up. If there are two in a row, tear him a new one.
It's usually not a matter of "This color beats this attack but this color doesn't beat that attack" in this matchup, just a matter of what ways Olimar has for keeping him out and punishing his approaches and what Pikmin are better at doing that than the others.
That said, purples are great at keeping Pikachu (and most characters) out with Purple Pikmin Toss. They're good for punishing easier situations but the option of a well spaced pivot grab or fsmash with them is nonexistent.
Don't let a blue grab you at high percents. Many Olimars will be looking for a pivot grab when he has a blue coming up so don't fall into it.
Yellows have more range so don't be surprised if he beats out your aerial approaches when one's up. Fsmash's hitbox is really good with them too. Be careful. That said, they don't have very much kill power.
Reds are mostly good for smash and aerial kill power. Don't worry about getting grabbed but watch out for an up smash oos or a punish for the kill.
Whites are garbage. Let loose if he has one coming up. If there are two in a row, tear him a new one.
tekkie
Smash Master
I'm just looking for a general overview. What moves are good and why/against what, specifics about the MU, anything specific.
DtJ Hilt
Little Lizard
Eh, definitely a vague question but I'll give it my best shot.
Most of Olimar's staple tools are a requirement. Fsmash and Grab to set up traps and keep him out, as well as purple pikmin toss. Regular toss isn't that great because of how easy it is for him to take that opportunity to close in on you, him just having to eat a small amount of damage. Don't leave openings for him to close in. Seems obvious but it's definitely more important in this matchup than most. Focus more on being ready to counter an approach than running away and racking up damage. Running away doesn't really work. Don't try to counter tornado unless you're above him (nair through it). Just wait it out and only try to punish if you see an obvious one (ending the tornado too high, something like that).
Get whistling shuttle loop down. You're going to spend a lot of time off stage. He'll either focus on swatting you out of the sky or waiting on the stage to punish you as you land. The latter is more dangerous and harder to deal with. Don't ever land near him. Only drop on him with a nair if it's guaranteed to land (cooldown from a whiffed attack), hitting his shield with a nair means you'll be off stage in a moment.
Don't be afraid to fair. Especially yellow, outranges his fair easily. Dair's a bit harder to deal with but nothing undoable. Wait for a break in his pattern and get in there with an up smash, fair, or uair if he's high enough. If he dair camps a lot, be sure to count his jumps. It isn't too hard to punish a landing mk if you're on your game. Just don't dash grab him on landing. Actually don't dash grab in general unless it's an obvious punish. Too easy to get punished for the attempt.
Hmm, what else. Stay away from dtilt. Don't be afraid to jump if he's pressuring you from really close (such as poking you with dtilt). Rolling isn't safe, and is an easy grab on his part if he's expecting it. Jumping puts you in a situation where you have to land against mk, but if you're smart, and if you outguess him, you can either land a fair when you close in on the ground or land more defensively with a whistle, air dodge, or even purple toss. It puts you into a complex RPS instead of praying that he doesn't predict the obvious escape.
Upsmash OOS isn't as good as it is in some other matchups, but it still has its situations. It easily punishes a shielded fair or glide attack. Not that great against dair though, unless the MK's clumsy. Keep to the center of the stage. When not in the center, take advantages of a platform's ability to make his approach and baits less effective.
That's all I've got unless you have specific questions. I don't do very well when it's vague, haha.
Most of Olimar's staple tools are a requirement. Fsmash and Grab to set up traps and keep him out, as well as purple pikmin toss. Regular toss isn't that great because of how easy it is for him to take that opportunity to close in on you, him just having to eat a small amount of damage. Don't leave openings for him to close in. Seems obvious but it's definitely more important in this matchup than most. Focus more on being ready to counter an approach than running away and racking up damage. Running away doesn't really work. Don't try to counter tornado unless you're above him (nair through it). Just wait it out and only try to punish if you see an obvious one (ending the tornado too high, something like that).
Get whistling shuttle loop down. You're going to spend a lot of time off stage. He'll either focus on swatting you out of the sky or waiting on the stage to punish you as you land. The latter is more dangerous and harder to deal with. Don't ever land near him. Only drop on him with a nair if it's guaranteed to land (cooldown from a whiffed attack), hitting his shield with a nair means you'll be off stage in a moment.
Don't be afraid to fair. Especially yellow, outranges his fair easily. Dair's a bit harder to deal with but nothing undoable. Wait for a break in his pattern and get in there with an up smash, fair, or uair if he's high enough. If he dair camps a lot, be sure to count his jumps. It isn't too hard to punish a landing mk if you're on your game. Just don't dash grab him on landing. Actually don't dash grab in general unless it's an obvious punish. Too easy to get punished for the attempt.
Hmm, what else. Stay away from dtilt. Don't be afraid to jump if he's pressuring you from really close (such as poking you with dtilt). Rolling isn't safe, and is an easy grab on his part if he's expecting it. Jumping puts you in a situation where you have to land against mk, but if you're smart, and if you outguess him, you can either land a fair when you close in on the ground or land more defensively with a whistle, air dodge, or even purple toss. It puts you into a complex RPS instead of praying that he doesn't predict the obvious escape.
Upsmash OOS isn't as good as it is in some other matchups, but it still has its situations. It easily punishes a shielded fair or glide attack. Not that great against dair though, unless the MK's clumsy. Keep to the center of the stage. When not in the center, take advantages of a platform's ability to make his approach and baits less effective.
That's all I've got unless you have specific questions. I don't do very well when it's vague, haha.
tekkie
Smash Master
nah, that was definitely helpful. just looking for new things to think about and that was a lot :D
is there a definitive thread for low% combos/grab combos? i'm not well versed on much beyond uthrow>usmash
is there a definitive thread for low% combos/grab combos? i'm not well versed on much beyond uthrow>usmash
BSL
B-B-B-BLAMM!!!
Hilt types out a 2 page essay, says he doesn't do well on vagueness.
DtJ Hilt
Little Lizard
You want to do down throw for combos instead of up throw. Dthrow combos into up smash or fair unless you do a purple downthrow (doesn't combo at any percents).
Dthrow -> Up Smash is the better option most of the time. Puts the opponent in a position above you where they have to land, giving you a chance to keep juggling them. You can go for the uair right after the up smash if you think they'll fall for it, or you can wait and try to land a grab or another usmash when they try to land.
Dthrow -> Fair is better against characters that are harder to up smash after the dthrow. Luigi, Lucario, etc; characters that are both floaty and have a quick aerial option give dthrow -> usmash a hard time, so it's better to go for the fair. It'll feel like you can go for another grab right afterwards if you land fast enough, and sometimes it works, but don't get into the habit of going for it often. It isn't a combo by any means.
Percents a fresh Down Throw will combo into Up Smash or Fair:
Against Meta Knight
Red: 0-8%
Yellow: 0-12%
Blue: 0-16%
White: 0-19%
Against Snake
Red: 0-12%
Yellow: 0-16%
Blue: 0-22%
White: 0-25%
Most characters are going to be between those two (DK and GW are the two immediate ones that come to mind that are heavier than Snake or lighter than MK).
Dthrow -> Up Smash is the better option most of the time. Puts the opponent in a position above you where they have to land, giving you a chance to keep juggling them. You can go for the uair right after the up smash if you think they'll fall for it, or you can wait and try to land a grab or another usmash when they try to land.
Dthrow -> Fair is better against characters that are harder to up smash after the dthrow. Luigi, Lucario, etc; characters that are both floaty and have a quick aerial option give dthrow -> usmash a hard time, so it's better to go for the fair. It'll feel like you can go for another grab right afterwards if you land fast enough, and sometimes it works, but don't get into the habit of going for it often. It isn't a combo by any means.
Percents a fresh Down Throw will combo into Up Smash or Fair:
Against Meta Knight
Red: 0-8%
Yellow: 0-12%
Blue: 0-16%
White: 0-19%
Against Snake
Red: 0-12%
Yellow: 0-16%
Blue: 0-22%
White: 0-25%
Most characters are going to be between those two (DK and GW are the two immediate ones that come to mind that are heavier than Snake or lighter than MK).
tekkie
Smash Master
i think i originally meant uthrow > usmash, my bad. i forgot about dthrow > fair; i haven't thought about it much.
is uair good for frame traps? like, uair after the usmash, if they airdodge, fair or something?
is uair good for frame traps? like, uair after the usmash, if they airdodge, fair or something?
BSL
B-B-B-BLAMM!!!
Dthrow -> empty short hop -> regrab is sexy
DtJ Hilt
Little Lizard
I think Uair lasts just a little bit too long to work well as a frame trap. At least after an up smash. If you uair just as they're falling from a juggle, then you can space it better and time it a little earlier so that they can't get past it and through you before you have time to react.
CyanNY
Smash Cadet
Can I get some recovery advice? Its the only hole in my game right now and I'm wondering what I need to be practicing to get better at it.
BSL
B-B-B-BLAMM!!!
First thing's first: make sure you're DIing properly. Good DI makes it so much harder to end up in a bad decision. Always DI up. If you're low, and far off stage, you have less hope than anyone else ever.
Do not use your second jump unless you absolutely have to.
Whistle as you jump, they'll be trying to knock you out of it, whistle stops that.
If they're hogging the ledge, throw purples at them, it'll knock them off before you upB.
If you're falling onto the stage and they're waiting on you, use whistle bounces to change direction quickly. Try falling nairs after your whistle, maybe.
Do not use your second jump unless you absolutely have to.
Whistle as you jump, they'll be trying to knock you out of it, whistle stops that.
If they're hogging the ledge, throw purples at them, it'll knock them off before you upB.
If you're falling onto the stage and they're waiting on you, use whistle bounces to change direction quickly. Try falling nairs after your whistle, maybe.
Amical
Smash Journeyman
Hello, I'm a bit new to Olimar, and a bit new to competitive play, for that matter, so forgive me if I sound inexperienced. Recently I found out for myself that you can, or at least I think you can, get a dthrow chain grab up to varying numbers on quite a few characters (Without purples, of course). I did some debatable testing, meaning that I did not have another human player available to help me with it, and found some information for myself on this using the CPU in brawls. I have all my own data now on how many dthrows you can get on each character, but what I want to know is if there is any accurate information pertaining to this, because I would really like to know, but I haven't found any. Is there any official data for this, if it exists, somewhere? I thought it might come in handy someday if you can really do it.
BSL
B-B-B-BLAMM!!!
DI ruins it. As far as I know, dthrow won't chain grab ever. You may be able to get a second one off if you get a good read, or rather they mess up a read. Hilt would know for sure though.
CyanNY
Smash Cadet
Down throw chain grab isn't a very viable option. You're better off trying for a down throw forward smash regrab or just down throw up smash works well too.
DtJ Hilt
Little Lizard
Two thumbs up.
Only thing I would add to this is that Fair and Uair are good options for getting them off of the ledge as well, but mostly uair if you can get under them before you use your second jump. But yeah. When you use your second jump is the main game changer, right there with becoming competent at whistling.
On the topic of Down Throw Chain Grabs. I don't know the specifics or the exact data, but here's what matters.
Fox and Wolf can be standing chain grabbed once. Meaning you can get one more chain grab off, after the first throw. If you want to land a third grab, you have to do a really quick and short dash grab. Again, this only works on Fox and Wolf, and maybe a couple of really low tiers that flew under the radar (Ganondorf? Falcon?), but even then I'm pretty sure that Fox and Wolf are the only two and I know for sure that no mid/high/top tiers can be chain grabbed at all (Falco, Snake, MK, or anyone else that matters). Also, if you're a frame or two off on the third grab on Wolf, his reflector will beat out your attempt. Fox is really easy to get the third grab on, though. That said, after the third down throw you can still get an up smash or forward air on them.
Dthrow -> Fsmash -> Regrab was cool and worked back in 09, but it's not worth your time. You're better off always going dthrow -> Fair or Up Smash. Hell, regrab after the fsmash is about as likely as a regrab after the fair. But neither are reliable. That said, whether or not it's something you're better off doing than just going for a second grab is debatable. Landing a second grab afterwards if you make a good read is much more likely, in my opinion.
lazymp
Smash Apprentice
I've got some questions:
1) Snake: My grabs/fsmashs get beat out by his ftilt a lot. Am I spacing badly? Or how should I go about dealing with that? Well-spaced fairs?
2) Falco: Well executed chain grab --> dair at low percents can sometimes very easily kill me. Is there a way to counter this well? Other than avoiding being grabbed and taking some damage so it's easier to break out. And even then, what're some good strategies against falco, when he can use lasers+side B+reflector to outcamp us, and his inside game is solid too?
1) Snake: My grabs/fsmashs get beat out by his ftilt a lot. Am I spacing badly? Or how should I go about dealing with that? Well-spaced fairs?
2) Falco: Well executed chain grab --> dair at low percents can sometimes very easily kill me. Is there a way to counter this well? Other than avoiding being grabbed and taking some damage so it's easier to break out. And even then, what're some good strategies against falco, when he can use lasers+side B+reflector to outcamp us, and his inside game is solid too?
DtJ Hilt
Little Lizard
1) Are you talking about dash or standing grabs? Because if you're dash grabbing at all, you're definitely going to get beat out by his ftilt. If you're standing grab (which you should be doing), while it's somewhat easy to space incorrectly, you should be pretty safe. Forward Smash should out range his ftilt. There's a chance of him hitting the hurtbox on the Pikmin and canceling the attack, but he shouldn't be able to hit you with the ftilt if you're spacing it well enough.
That said, you usually aren't going to want to just sit at mid range and try to outrange Snake. Keep a bit of a distance and make him approach. Defensive Pikmin Toss with grabs/fsmash to cover the moments that he might soon try to approach during. Make sure to have the hitbox/grab out before he tries to come in, otherwise it'll most likely be too late with his huge frame advantage over Olimar.
Fair is good but only if you see an opening that's pretty much a guaranteed punish. Don't be predictable with it or you could easily eat a fair or a leave yourself open for a myriad of punishes.
2) Now Falco on the other hand, you are going to want to sit at mid range against. As you said, he does a good job in a camp battle against us and his close range game is ridiculous. Especially compared to ours. But he doesn't have very many good options if you're just outside of his range, but not so far that he can safely laser. Fsmash is great if you think he'll do a quick phantasm, as well as keeping pressure on him as well. Nair does well against it too, and if you want to get really fancy, utilt clanks with it in a way that leaves him vulnerable and re-grounds you to the neutral state so that it combos into upsmash beautifully. Try it out sometime.
Stay at long range for a little while just to throw some Pikmin for him to have to deal with. You aren't going to want to stay too far for long, but you don't want to abandon it completely. It's pretty easy to transition from camping long range to keeping pressure mid range, and force Falco to shift gears.
Stay away from him at low percents. It seems obvious, but it's a big deal. Camp the platforms until you get some percents on you. 20-25% should be fine. Don't give him the percents, by any means, make him work for it. If you bounce from platform to platform he should have a lot of trouble getting lasers or aerials on you, and you can get some free pikmin on him and maybe even a nair/fair or two. If you get under him and he's still on the platform, or higher, you can attempt juggle with a uair or pivot grab his landing. The pivot grab is safe since it will put you far enough away from him so that if he does avoid the grab, he'll be too far to punish you. The uair is safe since you'll already be in the air to retreat to your platform camping.
That said, don't be afraid to retreat to the air in general. If he's pressuring your shield, get off the ground. Don't let him get a free punish on a roll or try to throw out a move that he'll easily cancel with a jab. Not saying to jump away from him every time, but his answers to it are less so than most characters. Falco is by no means one of the best character at punishing Olimar being in the air.
That said, you usually aren't going to want to just sit at mid range and try to outrange Snake. Keep a bit of a distance and make him approach. Defensive Pikmin Toss with grabs/fsmash to cover the moments that he might soon try to approach during. Make sure to have the hitbox/grab out before he tries to come in, otherwise it'll most likely be too late with his huge frame advantage over Olimar.
Fair is good but only if you see an opening that's pretty much a guaranteed punish. Don't be predictable with it or you could easily eat a fair or a leave yourself open for a myriad of punishes.
2) Now Falco on the other hand, you are going to want to sit at mid range against. As you said, he does a good job in a camp battle against us and his close range game is ridiculous. Especially compared to ours. But he doesn't have very many good options if you're just outside of his range, but not so far that he can safely laser. Fsmash is great if you think he'll do a quick phantasm, as well as keeping pressure on him as well. Nair does well against it too, and if you want to get really fancy, utilt clanks with it in a way that leaves him vulnerable and re-grounds you to the neutral state so that it combos into upsmash beautifully. Try it out sometime.
Stay at long range for a little while just to throw some Pikmin for him to have to deal with. You aren't going to want to stay too far for long, but you don't want to abandon it completely. It's pretty easy to transition from camping long range to keeping pressure mid range, and force Falco to shift gears.
Stay away from him at low percents. It seems obvious, but it's a big deal. Camp the platforms until you get some percents on you. 20-25% should be fine. Don't give him the percents, by any means, make him work for it. If you bounce from platform to platform he should have a lot of trouble getting lasers or aerials on you, and you can get some free pikmin on him and maybe even a nair/fair or two. If you get under him and he's still on the platform, or higher, you can attempt juggle with a uair or pivot grab his landing. The pivot grab is safe since it will put you far enough away from him so that if he does avoid the grab, he'll be too far to punish you. The uair is safe since you'll already be in the air to retreat to your platform camping.
That said, don't be afraid to retreat to the air in general. If he's pressuring your shield, get off the ground. Don't let him get a free punish on a roll or try to throw out a move that he'll easily cancel with a jab. Not saying to jump away from him every time, but his answers to it are less so than most characters. Falco is by no means one of the best character at punishing Olimar being in the air.
BSL
B-B-B-BLAMM!!!
Something something JCGrabs
lazymp
Smash Apprentice
Thanks Hilt, super helpful stuff ^_^
Mr.Pikachu
Smash Journeyman
anyone know who's the best Olimar?
Sky Pirate
The best defense is a lot of frigging healing
Nietono is generally considered to be the best.
BSL
B-B-B-BLAMM!!!
Me
Mr.Pikachu
Smash Journeyman
Rottenyogurt
Smash Rookie
Any tips for the mirror match?
BSL
B-B-B-BLAMM!!!
Play gayer than your opponent.