LGBT Smashers

[The.End]

Do not speak of DDR as if you know what its about, and do not mock it.

I've been playing for 6 1/2 years, I'm pretty amazing. And I can think of 2 songs on DDR extreme ARC (248 songs) that uses a chipmunk effect. (Speeding up vocals) It's alot of House, Jpop, Dance, eurobeat, electronic, techno, funk, video game music, along with alot of commonly known songs done by cover artists and old school scores from famous composers remade by some of Konami's artists primarily.

@_@ i've played DDR before... All the songs on the list were just that. Nothing of the list that you mentioned... I must have been playing a really crappy DDR.

 

[Timbers]

Everything on DDR sounds the same to me, but synthesized lyrics are pretty rare to actually come by on DDR.

 

[SarahHarp]

... eurobeat, ...

Oh I love eurobeat. Yep. I definitely have every SEB album. Go me~

Also, more Samus representatives are needed here <.<;

 

[JigglyZelda003]

Kinda why i cant get into the Whole DDR thing, plus im not much of a dancer...

no need to be a dancer to play DDR, you just need good eye foot coordination.

Lol, even though I'm straight, its kinda funny how 80% of the Jigglypuff board posts here or some crazy number.

lol who else other than me and Veril?

It's alot of House, Jpop, Dance, eurobeat, electronic, techno, funk, video game music, along with alot of commonly known songs done by cover artists and old school scores from famous composers remade by some of Konami's artists primarily.

QFT

you play Bag too don't you? i still can't play that one yet

 

[dawgbowl]

I've passed everything on extreme (Arcade) with at least an A, AA's on all songs except for Legend, Unlimited, PSM and PSMO, and about 50+ AAA's.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5xBQuTVT_8
That's not a BAD example of the music, doesn't the range of genre's as well as I hoped but I ain't looking into this far.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ia8rrDVI6-4 (my old blog from early this year, you know, the ones you guys said you'd do!)

me and my friends playing a 4v4 random nonstop mode. (we dont know what song is coming until it starts)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gt4l9tYV28Y

(I went first, in the blue)

 

[Xsyven]

Get back on topic, or else this thread will be closed again.

 

[Mini Mic]

On topic: I'm curious, is being gay something you just suddenly realised or have you always known you were gay?

 

[deepseadiva]

For me at least it was something I always knew - kinda.

There was a specific night I was lying awake in my middle school years when I "came out" to myself. "OhmygodImgay."

But, looking back, I kinda knew for quite some time. Stupid Johnny Bravo. >___>

 

[Airgemini]

Well for me... Well I always knew I liked guys.. But I dont know when I knew I did..
Make sense?

 

[JigglyZelda003]

i've known since 6th grade, but didn't really know what gay was until 2 years later.

 

[1048576]

The same time you knew you were straight.

People should post here less frequently. Being gay isn't a big deal unless someone hurts you. There aren't that many things to talk about that don't fall under the realm of general chat. We're only different from anybody else in one way, and, quite frankly, that one way is a bit M-rated.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

The same time you knew you were straight.

People should post here less frequently. Being gay isn't a big deal unless someone hurts you. There aren't that many things to talk about that don't fall under the realm of general chat. We're only different from anybody else in one way, and, quite frankly, that one way is a bit M-rated.

>_>

While I understand where you're coming from Xsyven did say that as long as the members of this thread "kept things gay," everything would be gravy. So pretty much telling everybody to post here only if they have a sob story about being gay is kinda counterproductive to the point of a thread, which is to foster discussion between like-minded peers or those (like myself) who genuinely like the atmosphere (re: the people who come here and post about similar experiences with friends/family).

So, uh, my stepmother dyed my living room furniture today. It turned out hot pink rather than scarlet. Not only did I decide to keep it that color, I liked it.

o.o

Smooth Criminal

 

[Xsyven]

The same time you knew you were straight.

People should post here less frequently. Being gay isn't a big deal unless someone hurts you. There aren't that many things to talk about that don't fall under the realm of general chat. We're only different from anybody else in one way, and, quite frankly, that one way is a bit M-rated.

There's plenty of other gay-related things to talk about. But don't worry, we all know you're just being that annoying self-degrading pessimist we all know and love, so we can get over that.



@Mic: Pre-puberty, I liked girls, because you know, that's just what little boys do. After puberty, I started liking guys. I even remember my first crush from seventh grade (who by the way, is super fugly now.)

I didn't actually ... admit it to myself until I was about 18, or so. Hardcore denial, despite the fact I would look at guys rather than girls all the time. Like, I knew I liked guys, but I was so not gay.

 

[Sanu]

For me at least it was something I always knew - kinda.

There was a specific night I was lying awake in my middle school years when I "came out" to myself. "OhmygodImgay."

But, looking back, I kinda knew for quite some time. Stupid Johnny Bravo. >___>

*snickers* "Oh Jooooooooooohny!!!"

My situation was pretty similar to Xsyies; I looked at girls in my pre-pubescent because that was what you were supposed to do <_<; and then OMG PUBERY... why aren't girls attractive to me? I actually thought I had erectile dysfunction when I was much younger because I'd never get aroused when looking at girls... at all. It all made sense eventually though XDD

I sort of unconsciously realized though at the tender age of 12 . I had one friend who would come to my house and sleep over ALL THE TIME. He was cute, in a geeky sort of way... :nerd: but anyways, whenever we'd go to sleep I'd always somehow wake up earlier than him. I'd usually end up just looking at him for 5-10 minutes at a time, wondering what would happen if I happened to ummmmmmm nomnomnom his manhood in his sleep, if you will *blushes*. I ended up really close to doing it once too :freak:. I really hated myself for that and always tried to tell myself OMG THIS ISN'T RIGHT, YOU DISGUST ME :smoke:.

Then denial set in; when he stopped sleeping over I tried to forget about that all and would just tell people that school is important now and girlfriends are important later . I used to have a low sex drive, or so I believed, so I just ignored sexual feelings in general. I eventually subconsciously deemed myself bisexual and just sort of close that box at that point .

Then in highschool, I ended up having a teacher with a really nice bum, so those feelings were on the forefront of my mind again.. not to mention all the hot guys at my school. OH NOES, the horror . I'd always end up staring at his bottom line instead of listening during class x.x It was around then that it dawned on me. I was at work taking my break... I had been debating my sexuality that whole night, especially since I had a huge crush on one of my best friends/co-worker. And then BOOM, I looked up at the sky and said "It can't be true... I'm GAY!!" really loudly . Just about everyone in the area looked at me and I was really embarrassed .

Thus ends my long and winded tale of how I came to terms with my longing for mansmex

 

[1048576]

There's plenty of other gay-related things to talk about. But don't worry, we all know you're just being that annoying self-degrading pessimist we all know and love, so we can get over that.



@Mic: Pre-puberty, I liked girls, because you know, that's just what little boys do. After puberty, I started liking guys. I even remember my first crush from seventh grade (who by the way, is super fugly now.)

I didn't actually ... admit it to myself until I was about 18, or so. Hardcore denial, despite the fact I would look at guys rather than girls all the time. Like, I knew I liked guys, but I was so not gay.

I don't understand. Aside from sexual orientation, how are you different from John Doe?

"I like pink" falls under general chat, IMO, but you're the mod, and if you disagree, that's great, because I could talk about pink-dominated rainbows until the sky falls down

I knew it right away. I used to watch pro-wrestling when I was middle-school aged...

I have had a crush on my best friend for some time now. Unfortunately, I know he's straight.

“No matter how cynical you become, it's never enough to keep up”

That's my motto.

 

[Sanu]

Also funny to note is that I was probably the biggest homophobe in my middle/highschool back in the day. LOOK HOW I TURNED OUT xD

 

[Takumaru]

@Mic: Pre-puberty, I liked girls, because you know, that's just what little boys do. After puberty, I started liking guys. I even remember my first crush from seventh grade (who by the way, is super fugly now.)

I didn't actually ... admit it to myself until I was about 18, or so. Hardcore denial, despite the fact I would look at guys rather than girls all the time. Like, I knew I liked guys, but I was so not gay.

Xsyven and I share a life story... or at least 5 sentences.

 

[Brav3r]

Aww man, too funny

Ive kissed a girl when i was 4 years old, had a crush on a girl in elementary. somewhere
during middle school, puberty sorta changed everything, a few guys had some sort of
appeal to me, not all of them lol there was still denail. I still have a few crushes on some girls
(heh, they still look hot though) but no real sexual attraction.

 

[The.End]

Also funny to note is that I was probably the biggest homophobe in my middle/highschool back in the day. LOOK HOW I TURNED OUT xD

Haha... Yea alot of people say that 99% of homophobes end up gay. I wonder, i hope it's true, for my own sake xD. I hear it's repressed homosexuality or jealousy. Ah well.

Anyhow, I suppose i had some sort of attraction to the girls when i was in elementary and further back. Although, later on, maybe when i was around 12-13, I just wasn't interested in a relationship with them. Although i was more in a state of denial back then due to all the homophobia around me. Although i still see alot of it, I somehow managed to accept myself, don't ask how, I don't even know how. I think that in the stage of my own acceptance in sexuality, I also managed to boost my self-confidence (I had really bad self-confidence, back then). I forget how it all happened though, I suppose the transition from elementary to high school really helped, seeing as none of my former classmates/friends attend the same school as me . It's like starting anew. Anyhow, I think that our own surroundings/environment may have a huge effect on the way people end up coming out, or even if they are in denial.
No idea how i figured out I was homosexual, I suppose it was the same thing as if you were hetero, you just know (and possibly the fact that there was sexual/emotional attraction to same sex)

P.S. Darn it the chatroom doesn't work anymore D:

 

[Timbers]

On topic: I'm curious, is being gay something you just suddenly realised or have you always known you were gay?

I'm not really sure. Probably something you would subconsciously know, but never think of it as a big deal until you (or the people around you) start becoming attracted to others/you become attracted to them. Like, as early as 4th grade I always thought this guy was cute and I thought he was cool and someone to look up to, but at that time I remember wishing I was like him (at that time being a delinquent was totally awesome to me. The kid ditched and pissed off every teacher in that building, and hot chicks liked him for it) rather than wanting to be with him. I pretty much told myself I was just envious of him, but I still thought he was cute as hell. That was really the only guy I thought of 'like that' until later years in middle school though, I still liked flirting with girls until my freshman year where I lost interest in them and just went after guys.

Haha... Yea alot of people say that 99% of homophobes end up gay. I wonder, i hope it's true, for my own sake xD. I hear it's repressed homosexuality or jealousy. Ah well.

I doubt it's jealousy or repression. If you genuinely hate homosexuality, it's either because enough people told you to hate it or you just really really hate gays. I myself come off as (tolerant but) homophobic to people that don't know I like guys. It's not really intentional, I think I just subconsciously try too hard to cover it up.

 

[Daysoo]

Sadly did not perform as well as I could have in recent tournaments.
I continue to break even / make a small profit.
Haven't placed first in a long while.
Made enough to treat my BF to dinner tonight at least.
I got ranked 3rd for my state's Brawl PR, too! :D
Smack Hos, man. Srs bid'ness.

 

[Silent_Rain]

Also funny to note is that I was probably the biggest homophobe in my middle/highschool back in the day. LOOK HOW I TURNED OUT xD

Back in middle school, when I was insecure like there was no tomorrow, I used to have this "friend" who I would hang out with. He was a HUGE homophobe. The funny thing is, he had more feminine qualities than I do such as some typical hand gestures, prettier handwriting than me =P (lol), he would hang around girls a lot, and just the way he would speak. Anyways, towards the end of 8th grade, he decided to make my life miserable. He was not an ***, he was a big betch. We were in band and once he even tipped over my music stand so all my sheet music would fall on the floor everywhere. I can not remember exactly why he was mad at me that time. We ended going to different high schools. Sometime in the middle of high school, I heard from other people that know him that he was gay. There was a huge rumor going about that. I loled in my head since I wouldn't doubt the rumor.

 

[Timbers]

Sadly did not perform as well as I could have in recent tournaments.
I continue to break even / make a small profit.
Haven't placed first in a long while.
Made enough to treat my BF to dinner tonight at least.
I got ranked 3rd for my state's Brawl PR, too! :D
Smack Hos, man. Srs bid'ness.

d'aww, that sux

I'm probably bad at smash now as I've been hella busy since October and haven't been able to smash much lols.

glad you at least made enough to go out to dinner :3

prettier handwriting than me =P (lol)

I think I just took the most irrelevant bit of your post and decided to comment on it, but I use to always get compliments on my handwriting because it was 'pretty.'

I never understood that though, I always have written stupidly small and...I can't think of a better word to describe my writing other than 'sharp.' I never knew what pretty handwriting was suppose to look like haha.

 

[Silent_Rain]

I think I just took the most irrelevant bit of your post and decided to comment on it, but I use to always get compliments on my handwriting because it was 'pretty.'

I never understood that though, I always have written stupidly small and...I can't think of a better word to describe my writing other than 'sharp.' I never knew what pretty handwriting was suppose to look like haha.

The reason I added that statement was partially because in general, I think it is believed that girls have neater handwriting in general, so I was also joking, hence the lol, to point it out as a feminine quality. However, I know there are exceptions, like you. =P

But yeah I real messy handwriting. Sadly, I once slipped with a glass on my right hand (the hand I write with) and it broke on my hand, causing me to damage a nerve on my middle finger. I can not hold a pen or pencil correctly.

Anyways, back to boys...or girls....where are all the lesbians, also "T" for the transgender folk?
I think I usually see usernames that I recognize as males.
Blah, I don't know, you can never tell on the internet these days. :/

 

[kirbywizard]

hm never really liked a girl more then a friend never ....>_>
I really have only one person that I know is a homophob but he really dosent express it to much
wow the topic here changes so fast

 

[Timbers]

- Being bi is WAY more difficult than being gay. Sometimes you prefer guys, sometimes you prefer girls. And no, you can't have a word about it T_T

I think it's uncertainty that makes it 'difficult,' and I use the word very loosely. Being deadset in liking girls or guys is nicer than feeling like you flipflop and teeter totter on the fence. Just in my opinion.

 

[KirbyKaze]

I liked talking about handwriting more than this crap.

 

[Sanu]

^ XD <3

My handwriting is akin to that of a Doctor's... <___<

 

[Xsyven]

............

 

[Sanu]

Hey, I made a huge post earlier so you have nothing to say to me about being off topic !! Plus, we're discussing false stereotypes.

... <_< I'll stop now.

So uhh, what's the deal with gay rights issues? Jerry?

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[Timbers]

Gay marriage I think is a big one, and while it'd be nice to see marriage for gays, I can't help but also sympathize with those who feel that a sacrement of their religion is being 'tainted' and may feel pressured about it. I'm not saying what they're feeling is right, but I can understand their reasoning and their beliefs. I know I'd feel indifferent about having something I believed in all my life to suddenly be threatened and thrown out. It'd be nice to see gay marriage enforced, but I'm not going to go call everyone who disagrees ignorant and misguided. It's literally our word against theirs.

But there are some things that I can't support and feel rather ill about. Xysven's situation with Utah, for example, has nothing powering this decision besides ignorance and hatred. It's pretty lame.

 

[Veril]

Gay marriage I think is a big one, and while it'd be nice to see marriage for gays, I can't help but also sympathize with those who feel that a sacrement of their religion is being 'tainted' and may feel pressured about it. I'm not saying what they're feeling is right, but I can understand their reasoning and their beliefs. I know I'd feel indifferent about having something I believed in all my life to suddenly be threatened and thrown out. It'd be nice to see gay marriage enforced, but I'm not going to go call everyone who disagrees ignorant and misguided. It's literally our word against theirs.

But there are some things that I can't support and feel rather ill about. Xysven's situation with Utah, for example, has nothing powering this decision besides ignorance and hatred. It's pretty lame.

the thing is marriage is a legal institution independent of its religious ties. Atheists get married. No one religion can claim marriage as unique to them, and there ARE religious groups that do not have an issue with gay marriage (I'll look up the sect). The government can't force a religious group to perform a marriage CEREMONY, but those can be performed by government officials and aren't necessary for the legal designation of marriage. Not allowing gay marriage is akin to favoring a set of religious beliefs. This violates the separation of church and state... not that this doesn't happen all the time anyway ("cough" prop 8).

I have no sympathy for religious opposition to gay marriage at all. None. Their logic is tremendously flawed from a legal perspective.


in Regards to allowing Civil Unions;

Its not fair. For me the real issue with marriage vs. civil unions is the idea of them being separate but equal. We all know what that means... They aren't legally equivalent, which is what we want, no?

 

[pdk]

On topic: I'm curious, is being gay something you just suddenly realised or have you always known you were gay?

i've talked about it a bit more in depth with a few peeps on here, i don't care to share the whole scoop with the board right now so take this (possible cursing/NSFW content in the other posts, sorry children)

 

[Teran]

Gay marriage is legal in England.

You poor sods.

 

[Timbers]

the thing is marriage is a legal institution independent of its religious ties. Atheists get married. No one religion can claim marriage as unique to them, and there ARE religious groups that do not have an issue with gay marriage (I'll look up the sect). The government can't force a religious group to perform a marriage CEREMONY, but those can be performed by government officials and aren't necessary for the legal designation of marriage. Not allowing gay marriage is akin to favoring a set of religious beliefs. This violates the separation of church and state... not that this doesn't happen all the time anyway ("cough" prop 8).

I have no sympathy for religious opposition to gay marriage at all. None. Their logic is tremendously flawed from a legal perspective.

I'm not saying what they're feeling is right, but I can understand their reasoning and their beliefs..

I never said what they think is right, but I can see their logic behind it and, to an extent, understand.

 

[Daysoo]

What's my opinion on the gay marriage debate?

the thing is marriage is a legal institution independent of its religious ties. Atheists get married. No one religion can claim marriage as unique to them, and there ARE religious groups that do not have an issue with gay marriage (I'll look up the sect). The government can't force a religious group to perform a marriage CEREMONY, but those can be performed by government officials and aren't necessary for the legal designation of marriage. Not allowing gay marriage is akin to favoring a set of religious beliefs. This violates the separation of church and state... not that this doesn't happen all the time anyway ("cough" prop 8).

I have no sympathy for religious opposition to gay marriage at all. None. Their logic is tremendously flawed from a legal perspective.


in Regards to allowing Civil Unions;

Its not fair. For me the real issue with marriage vs. civil unions is the idea of them being separate but equal. We all know what that means... They aren't legally equivalent, which is what we want, no?

This.

 

[Mazaloth]

I'm back... Again.
Quit Brawl for SFIV. (Sorry).
But, I still will be participating in the LBGT Thread.
The last subject we were on was not an area I was familiar with so, that also contributed to my absence.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Gay Marriage.

The thing about Marriage is that it is no longer a religious themed ritual. Even though, the churches claim marriage to be a sacred event, held witness by God, Marriage is just not only religious, it is an icon of independence and devotion.
The thing about Civil Unions is that all it does is undermine the meaning of marriage. What the States are doing by not allowing Gays to marry is telling them in a nice way, "Yeah, You MIGHT be able to be devoted buuuut, since your Gay...".

The Church is just trying to undermine, and this is not acceptable, morally or legally. We must follow all of the consitution that every man is free, and has the right to pursue life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness.

Of course there are more, but this is the main aspects. It really is the fact of the undermining that pisses me off.

 

[adumbrodeus]

I'm back... Again.
Quit Brawl for SFIV. (Sorry).
But, I still will be participating in the LBGT Thread.
The last subject we were on was not an area I was familiar with so, that also contributed to my absence.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Gay Marriage.

The thing about Marriage is that it is no longer a religious themed ritual. Even though, the churches claim marriage to be a sacred event, held witness by God, Marriage is just not only religious, it is an icon of independence and devotion.
The thing about Civil Unions is that all it does is undermine the meaning of marriage. What the States are doing by not allowing Gays to marry is telling them in a nice way, "Yeah, You MIGHT be able to be devoted buuuut, since your Gay...".

The Church is just trying to undermine, and this is not acceptable, morally or legally. We must follow all of the consitution that every man is free, and has the right to pursue life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness.

Of course there are more, but this is the main aspects. It really is the fact of the undermining that pisses me off.

There's a few minor issues I'd like to point out, more in the clarification sense then anything else because I'm pro-legal gay marriage.


Firstly, there actually is a religious idea that secular marriage is inherently wrong, since it's "supposed to be" a solely religious institution. Therefore by that reasoning, any state marriage that amounts to something that disagrees with their religious ideals is wrong because religion defines marriage. The thing that they're missing is that it doesn't touch the point of other religions, but I actually have a fair amount of sympathy for that view.

Why? Because the natural progression is that the state should not interfere with marriage period. No marriage licenses, no limits on who can marry, no nothing. The functions that marriage legally performs can be done through other mechanisms and marriage itself can legally be reduced to a contract between two (or more, but that's a separate debate) people.


Secondly, this always annoys me, it's not "the Church", it's "a number of religious organizations". "The Church" refers to Latin rite Catholicism, which while it opposes gay marriage officially, is far from the only religious group that does so. To say "the Church" in this context makes it seem like Catholicism is the only group that opposes gay marriage. It's a linguistic tic that contributes to anti-Catholic bias (namely to say things done by Christian groups are done by "the Church"), let's spread the "love" evenly in where it belongs ok?

in Regards to allowing Civil Unions;

Its not fair. For me the real issue with marriage vs. civil unions is the idea of them being separate but equal. We all know what that means... They aren't legally equivalent, which is what we want, no?

Actually, it depends on how they're legally defined.

If they're legally defined as "marriage" (in other words, the laws on civil unions are basically a redirect to the marriage laws in whole), then it doesn't matter. People will call it marriage and the legal distinction will vanish from our language.

Just only certain denominations will perform them.


That said, anything less falls into the "Separate but Equal" issue, but remember, the Brown V. Board of Ed. decision DOES require demonstrable harm to apply.

It didn't overturn Plessy, it established a standard by which assertions that something is "Separate but Equal" may be challenged, and then established that the criteria had been met for education.

 

[Mazaloth]

There's a few minor issues I'd like to point out, more in the clarification sense then anything else because I'm pro-legal gay marriage.


Firstly, there actually is a religious idea that secular marriage is inherently wrong, since it's "supposed to be" a solely religious institution. Therefore by that reasoning, any state marriage that amounts to something that disagrees with their religious ideals is wrong because religion defines marriage. The thing that they're missing is that it doesn't touch the point of other religions, but I actually have a fair amount of sympathy for that view.

Why? Because the natural progression is that the state should not interfere with marriage period. No marriage licenses, no limits on who can marry, no nothing. The functions that marriage legally performs can be done through other mechanisms and marriage itself can legally be reduced to a contract between two (or more, but that's a separate debate) people.


Secondly, this always annoys me, it's not "the Church", it's "a number of religious organizations". "The Church" refers to Latin rite Catholicism, which while it opposes gay marriage officially, is far from the only religious group that does so. To say "the Church" in this context makes it seem like Catholicism is the only group that opposes gay marriage. It's a linguistic tic that contributes to anti-Catholic bias (namely to say things done by Christian groups are done by "the Church"), let's spread the "love" evenly in where it belongs ok?

I didn't mean the Church in an offensive way, I am truly sorry. My mum is Romen Catholic, and I do go to church, mainly for insight purposes.
I ment all churches. Not labling one Sect of them, Once again I am sorry.

If the marriage is a solely religious thing, then the state should also stay out of their affairs. It isn't right for the state to have anything to do with religion, if not but widen the opprotunities towards it.
However, religion must be a concrete thing, a single crack cannot suffice, so how can the state realize the rights of people, while considering the rights of religion?
Marriage, NOW, is not only that of religious ideals. It is a reconization of partnership by state, or religion. Or both.
I'm saying that it is increasingly hard to balence both, because of all the conflicts.

 

[adumbrodeus]

I didn't mean the Church in an offensive way, I am truly sorry. My mum is Romen Catholic, and I do go to church, mainly for insight purposes.
I ment all churches. Not labling one Sect of them, Once again I am sorry.

If the marriage is a solely religious thing, then the state should also stay out of their affairs. It isn't right for the state to have anything to do with religion, if not but widen the opprotunities towards it.
However, religion must be a concrete thing, a single crack cannot suffice, so how can the state realize the rights of people, while considering the rights of religion?
Marriage, NOW, is not only that of religious ideals. It is a reconization of partnership by state, or religion. Or both.
I'm saying that it is increasingly hard to balence both, because of all the conflicts.

Don't worry, I know it's not a crack, just making people aware.


As for separation of church and state, the free exercise clause must also be respected, not just the establishment clause.


Really, it's not so much that marriage is a solely religious thing, it's that the state has no business in it whatsoever. If people want to make a contract (which is what marriage is in the secular sense) then it has no business in stopping them.

The only institution that can officiate marriage at a level beyond "personal, the couple defines everything"-style marriage is religion, and there only with it's followers.


Secular marriage is ok, because with the state out of the way it because uncontrollable. State marriage is not ok, at least imo.



Better back off the religion though....


Actually, I had a conversation today that was pretty interesting, we were talking about how it was fine for girls to be pro-gay rights regardless of their orientation, but guys that are involved are automatically assumed gay. Having some personal experience in this (I mentioned it on the thread, and come on I know what most of you were thinking till I talked about my family) I'd like some thoughts, you guys have any insight or personal experience on this?