Let's talk about Link.

[Spife]

What about Link's nair?

It's to good. When I play as Fox I find myself spamming nair some times because it's also good. Not as good but the entire thing is faster with better options out of it.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

No, I mean like use Link's nair against Fox's nair.

 

[Skler]

I don't think I've ever had a big problem with Fox full jumping things a lot. Timed utilts, FJ uairs (in case they DJ to be tricksy) can hit it. If they're using the nair early than you can just WD and grab when they land. Even if they aren't nairing early WDing into jabs/whatever allow you to react to the possible DJ reasonably quickly. You can also cc dsmash/jab, but if you're crouching they'll usually just drill.

Remember folks, if you hit with a jab you'd better be dsmashing or doing the strong triple. Only illusion stab on shields or if you really want to get it.

Edit: Whoever is above the other person wins the nair battle in Fox vs Link, and Fox has an easier time getting above Link. The catch is being above Link is almost always a bad position because Link's highest priority moves are the ones that hit above him. Does anybody have frame data on Fox's full jump?

 

[elvenarrow3000]

I have a question!

Slash 2

Total: 22
Hit: 7-8

Shield Stun: 6
Shield hit lag: 3
Advantage: -12
Stab Advantage: -6

Window of the stab: 3-25
Stab starts: 11
Window of the Illusion stab: 1-10
Illusion stab starts: 11

What happens if you press A on frames 3-10?

 

[Skler]

magic

Got Fox jump frame data?

 

[elvenarrow3000]

magic

thar u go
















































No, I'm not going to be a jerk like that.

Jump: airborne on frame 4

Air time: 35
Earliest FF hold: 15
Earliest actual FF: 18
FF air time: 27

SH air time: 21
Earliest FF hold: 9
Earliest actual FF: 12
SH FF air time: 15

There you go.

So how do you start up the rapid stabs instead of the normal stab?

 

[Spife]

uh, off the top of my head I think he's airborn at frame 4, you have to release jump by frame 2 (IIRC, which I'm sure I don't) and to Multi shine you have to shine on frame 1. That's all I know. I'm surey ou know it too, but this way I seem semi-knowlegeable and maybe some pro will think "man he knows his stuff about fox and jumping! I should train this Link main!" and then I become the next legendary story writer, right under pixel and kevinM.

Edit: EA3K is trying to steal my trainign from pros!

 

[elvenarrow3000]

No, you have that right. I dunno about the multishine though, never really looked into it. I don't think it's frame one though, because it feels way too slow to be that. Maybe frame three or four.

Dude, the legendary story things really upset me.

 

[NES n00b]

im drinking maple syrup and playing with the Link girls.

nah, on the real.
im thinking of ways to not get ***** by fox. im serious about this. Ive been watching Link matches, like everyone.

Make sure your nair is out before fox's or that your nair is coming from above fox's leg IE full hop nair to DJ to something or just fastfall after the full hop nair (recommend full nair the most of the approaches). Jab alot it is good. Use it for shield pressure, use it to stop fox's nair, use after nair/fair, and use it to setup dsmash but mix it up with nair or fair to keep them guessing. If you are feeling gutsy you can get a grab sometimes out of jab. >_> Also retreating fairs beat fox's nair cleanly which is really nice if you need to hit him totally away from you or think you can get more damage than usual (does more damage then nair). Uptilt is also a pretty good option especially for stopping behind approaches along with bair but uptilt combos into other things as you already know. Sometimes, I even dash attack when they are semi high percentages cause it does combo stuff and it overshoots dash dancing and stuff. Always a good idea to mix these things up to stop his approaches.

Against fox, it is harder to get downsmash on him but it still essential against him because of the setups it makes and the damage is good. So I think it is a good idea that instead of using jab every time you hit with nair or fair use dsmash when you think it is appropriate. This strat works as long as you don't spam IE if they don't expect it. Sometimes you can get a grab out of stuff like nair or fair or jab but definitely don't spam it cause like yeah you know. grab mostly when you think you are absolutely sure they will shield or after a nair or fair (cause they usually won't jump up or spotdodge). Otherwise don't do it though i sometimes do it when i think they are going to not jump.
Finally you can get dsmash by crouch canceling poorly spaced nairs but not that great of a strat. Sometimes it works.....
You probably know all the combos and stuff (and most of my advice V_V) so i won't go there. But I do recommend to get fox onto platforms all the time that way they get upaired, faired, or daired depending on what is better. Force them on platforms all the time.

For sheild pressure just bair/nair/fair jab * n where n is however many times you want and you can also put as many jabs as you want but only do third or rapid knowing you stopped the shield pressure if it fails....or succeeds. nair should be used for during shield pressure when you think he might get out of sheild fast after the jab or you want to hit his sheild quickly to repeat the jabs. Fair should be used for delayed things like if fox likes spotdodging while in shield or to poke above his shield or eat his shield (IE hurts his sheild more). Bair for multiple hits or if he sheilds behind you (obviously). Dsmash when shield pressuring if you are sure it will poke him or he will let go of his shield. But mostly only dsmash to poke underneath. Grab rarely (again obviously).

Use boomerang to cover options when he is recovering low or high or just to hit him if you know where he is going but I recommend usually throwing it low unless you know he is going to recover high. If he foward bs high nair a little away from the ledge so he drops like a rock and has to recover low. Fall nair or upb or edgehog when appropriate.

Edit: WHY THE **** DID I TYPE THIS WHEN EVERYONE KNOWS MOST OF THIS STUFF GAHH!!!!

2ndEdit: Frame 3 to multishine as that is when you can jump out of shine.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Sorry Spife =( I'll pass on anything I learn.

EDIT: No, but, there's no way you have to shine on the same frame that you jump. I tried with Falco, and that's definitely not how it works.

Dude, Spife, your videos are so randomly funny. Not just the tech ones but like... the matches with the suicide Spin edgegrabs and the two triple Peach dsmash hits in a row.

 

[Stos]

kk ty guys.
now i got more moves to outgay Fox's FJ Nair.
elvenarrow3000 tahnks for the frame data.

edit: so whos going to the conneticut tourney this weekend?

 

[elvenarrow3000]

If anyone cares about the multishine, it's frame three of the jump.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=109595

Just sayin'.

 

[NES n00b]

Sorry Spife =( I'll pass on anything I learn.

EDIT: No, but, there's no way you have to shine on the same frame that you jump. I tried with Falco, and that's definitely not how it works.

Dude, Spife, your videos are so randomly funny. Not just the tech ones but like... the matches with the suicide Spin edgegrabs and the two triple Peach dsmash hits in a row.

Must be the one after it then. Cause you jump....then shine. >______>

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Oh, wait, it's four. I'm stupid! Haha, ignore me...

 

[Spife]

maybe you had to jump on frame on off the ground or jc the shine on frame 1, I forget >.>

QUOTE:
"Dude, Spife, your videos are so randomly funny. Not just the tech ones but like... the matches with the suicide Spin edgegrabs and the two triple Peach dsmash hits in a row."

I don't remember two tripple peach dsmashe hits, in a row. I do remember taking about 50% cause I cc to much though >__>
Edit::
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ocwrCWxC90&feature=channel_page
lol
and suicide spin edgegrabs, against a doc on FoD? I do remember scraw hogs hurting more than helping -.-

Smash is a funny game, a very funny game. My favorite parts of smash is the competition, the endless amount you can learn and improve (nearly endless, you can't "beat the game" in a competitive fighter at least) AND I see something new and ridiculous almost every time I play.
One of my favorites was when Darc (not Banks, but now he'll find this message, hi banks!) came over to me at a tourny (while I was practicing on 2 minute time against a lvl 1 pichu, as all the pros do) and sat down and we started to play some friendlies, which was coo, but the ridiculousness that followed was...well ridiculous. The one thing that stuck out in my mind from that day was when he was playing y.link and dair'd me, he triple bounce dair'd me and the last dair was a spike. I think that was the first time I had seen y.link's spike (I knew about it just couldn't do it). crazyness


On topic though: dash attack -> up-b ***** ***** ***** at high percents on falco (and I'm sure on fox). 100% or so, just get a dash attack in and read DI accordingly, then ****. You can also dash attack -> dair I"m sure.

 

[Stos]

happy new year

 

[KirbyKaze]

Fox full jump Nair is soft.

"HEY! LISTEN!"

 

[Banks]

(not Banks, but now he'll find this message, hi banks!)

SUP

this gives me something to do on the boards. I applaud you spife, I applaud you!

 

[Spife]

SUP

this gives me something to do on the boards. I applaud you spife, I applaud you!

Always a pleasure, banks.
What's the deal with Maine? Are all of you getting housed?

 

[elvenarrow3000]

It was against Cogsmooch. I saw one of your Sheik matches against him too, also dsmash rapeage.

Peach's dsmash is so scary... I'm like... afraid to drillshine her even though it's so good against her just 'cause if I mess up, there goes my stock.

 

[Skler]

I swear that Banks does a search on his name every day.

I'm going to the CT tourny, and I expect to see you all there.

Including Banks.













Banks

 

[elvenarrow3000]

So how are the banks holding up with the economy as it is?

 

[Banks]

I swear that Banks does a search on his name every day.

I'm going to the CT tourny, and I expect to see you all there.

Including Banks.

C U There d00d!

So how are the banks holding up with the economy as it is?

this is CLEVER!

 

[Stos]

Skler & Spife how did you guys do in bullheaded?

 

[Spife]

I didn't make it out of pools (Skler, Alucard and Mogwai, to say the least did) and Skler got like, 7th I think.

 

[soap]

kk ty guys.
now i got more moves to outgay Fox's FJ Nair.
elvenarrow3000 tahnks for the frame data.

edit: so whos going to the conneticut tourney this weekend?

when fox is coming in high try throwing in random usmashes even if u whiff i get the jab out in time to protect myself alot.

not a staple strat but its like 3 utilts in a row, the wtf factor *****, this works better with Young link though, cuz he is shorter and the sword hits short hops better

 

[Skler]

My exact Bullheaded performance in the singles bracket was as follows.

Winners Bracket:

beat Kyu Puff (ICs)
beat Reno (Sheik)
lost to M2K (Sheik, Fox)

Losers:

Beat Alukard (Samus, Sheik, Captain Falcon)
Lost to Vanz (Sheik, Peach)

As far as teams went I'm pretty sure me and Pine got like 7th or 9th.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

You lost to Mew2King? N00b =P

 

[Cia]

How do you edge guard CF when he sweetspots the ledge on FD?? Dtilt doesn't work i lost a match to javi's CF in tournament because of it.

and LOL, what was i thinking going sheik against skler. he's too good.

 

[Stos]

good **** skler.
what was your main cp stage and ban against all of those sheiks ?
wow every set you had a sheik except with Kyu Puff

 

[elvenarrow3000]

How do you edge guard CF when he sweetspots the ledge on FD?? Dtilt doesn't work i lost a match to javi's marth in tournament because of it.

...huh?

Ftilt or falling nair. Actually, ftilt or nair in general for edgeguards. Good stuff.

 

[Cosmo!]

skler confirm/deny: IC/Link is the dumbest matchup in the game

 

[Cia]

oh that was mistake. javi mains marth, but he went CF against my link.

 

[Spife]

skler confirm/deny: IC/Link is the dumbest matchup in the game

Dumbest for who? It's not a hard match up for Link at all if that's what you mean. It's pretty dumb for everyone though if the IC player takes a stock off every grab.

 

[Cosmo!]

well me and zjiin were playing it for awhile and i basically found that unless I ran around and platform camped with bombs I was at a disadvantage, lol, it was really dumb, he switched to fox after a couple of matches, then we could both properly fight eachother again

 

[KirbyKaze]

IC usually are pretty good against normal fighting because of their unique shield game and grab punish (cc grab, shield grab, wd grab, tech chase grab, etc).

You kind of have to play gay with most characters to do good against them. If that's not your cup of tea, pick Peach or Marth lolz.

 

[Spife]

I just spam projectiles and try and uptilt them. Seriously, Nana doesn't DI. if you can seperate them, so much the better. Also, if you can, push them away if you flub something (like an aerial) with fsmash or dsmash or up-b or just turn around and utilt lulz.

I like throwing out grabs too (I wouldn't expect to do it and I'm the one doing it >.>)

 

[Cosmo!]

ya it was just sorta dumb

against IC I like to go falco, my marth doesnt work as good? I sorta have a weird playstyle. and throwing bombs w/ link is boring lol

 

[Spife]

I'm pretty sure spacies get wrecked vs IC cause of that chain grab they have

 

[Stos]

for some reason camping makes me really emo.
i hate it, throwing gay explosives, rangs then following it up with arrows.
The only match-up you should camp to win is jigs and ics. But its so boring. I hate campers. But i love camping in rl.