Let's talk about Link.

[elvenarrow3000]

I'm pretty sure spacies get wrecked vs IC cause of that chain grab they have

I disagree. Spacies and Marth are probably the hardest characters to grab, and a lot of characters have chaingrabs on spacies but still have crappy matchups. Like... Pikachu, for instance. Granted, ICs are one of the few who have a chaingrab that works with platforms above, but the concept is still the same.

for some reason camping makes me really emo.

I hear you.

 

[Spife]

I'll camp from time to time, it's better than losing imo (lol playing Link) It's a good thing against Marth and some falcocks though.

We have an icies player in our crew who just grabs and ***** spacies. I don't have much IC experience beyond that.

 

[Stos]

^ **** camping. if you like camping move on to brawl. Seriously, losing is better than camping from my

point of view, when you lose atleast you tried but when you camp its just boring. Who the **** haves fun

camping? lol

 

[soap]

everyone camps a lil, ur not pure aggresion all the time, spacing out attacks is mini camping sorta.

 

[Stos]

camping a little is fine.
but camping all the time isnt.

 

[Spife]

Seriously, losing is better than camping from my point of view, when you lose atleast you tried but when you camp its just boring.

Play to win or go home.

Everything has a place, I'm learning Link doesn't have many. You can't camp all the time, you will get bum rushed, but letting them approach while playing Link is a much better idea then getting combo'd.

 

[Stos]

Play to win or go home

playing to win and camping are different.

if you camp to win then its different. camping to win is just ughh

camping with projectiles when needed > camping with projectiles to win .

 

[Spife]

camping with projectiles when needed > camping with projectiles to win .

Agreed, we're borderline scrubs for playing Link anyway so chanting "Play2Win" as a mantra is a silly thing to do lulz. Go low tier mains!

 

[Skler]

Vanz, the ftilt hits CF's sweetspot if spaced/timed right. You can also jump out and kick them in the face a few times.

As far as Link vs ICs goes, it's really gay. Link does have to platform camp to win if the ICs want to be ruthless and wobble/CG you. If they aren't wobbling/CGing you can fight them with spacing and some projectiles, but if they're going to play gay and you really want to win (or if you just really want to win) platform camping is link's best option against the ICs.

 

[LumpyCPU...]

spacing out attacks is mini camping sorta.

lol nice way to put it.

 

[Shaeman111]

forward tilt and nair are good against falcons recovery right?
what projectiles can screw up his sweetspot?

 

[Skler]

Yes and all of them, though the bomb can let him do silly tech related things and makes him gain height at higher %s.

 

[Shaeman111]

eww. ok i'll keep that in mind.
and how do you edgeguard sheik and marth?

 

[Skler]

Against Sheik you hang on the edge and then dair when they geton the stage.

Against Marth you throw boomerangs and shoot arrows to mess up his momentum and then either ftilt or nair.

 

[Cia]

what are link's best high tier match ups?? I'd like to think that it's peach + Jigglypuff, but Teczero beat me with his gay peach x_x

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Probably Peach. I dunno about Jiggs...

 

[Skler]

Link's best high tier matchup is either Jiggs or the ICs.

After that it's peach.

Unless Samus is high tier, in which case she's Link's easiest high tier matchup.

After that everyone does really well against Link.

 

[LumpyCPU...]

what????
ic's can savagely abuse link.

i would've never thought to hear that.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Best =/= good

 

[LumpyCPU...]

haha nice
i didn't think of it like that.

also, i'd say he's better against peach and jiggz than ic's...
but then again, i've never even done that match up.
haha so i'm a noob for posting...

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Yeah, I would figure he does all right against Peach too. Oh well.

 

[Skler]

IC's only do really well against Link on FD. Other than that it's probably even or just a tiny bit in the ICs favor. Puff is about even with Link too unless the stage is gay.

Peach has an advantage against Link on small and really big stages, her shield pressure is incredible against Link and she can beat the nair all the time (which is Link's other shield). She's also hard to combo and, when she gets a turnip, hard to space against.

Peach isn't some sort of unwinnable matchup, I'd rather play against Peach than Doc or Mario, but she certainly isn't as good of a matchup as Link vs Jiggs, ICs or Samus.

Edit: Most people don't play enough ICs (or samus, or jiggs) to learn the matchup well. If you know the matchup it's not bad because none of those characters have a strategy that will always work. Peach is borderline because she has things that work retardedly well at close range and shuts down Link's major safety move. The only good thing about the matchup is that Peach is slow, which gives Link a good shot at spamming like a homo until he can land a kill move.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Makes sense I guess. What do you think about Marth?

 

[Skler]

Marth ***** Link pretty bad. I'd place him under Captain Falcon in the list of characters who **** Link.

 

[Cia]

Peach is hard to combo?? can't Link just do what young link does?? (projectile combo)

 

[LumpyCPU...]

link is good against peach imo.
i main peach. and i sometimes counter peach players with link.
hahaha

i also disagree with marth ****** link.
i would say it's almost even but in marth's favor.

but again... all of this is IMO so... yeah haha

 

[Spife]

Nah, as a Link main I think that match up sucks bawls.

Sheik
Fox
Falco
Falcon
Marth

Fox is under sheik cause fox is comboable lol and doesn't just juggle you >.> I think that list is pretty acurate though. You see a lot of those characters played in tourny, Marth is the easiest of Link's high tier match ups but it's still rough. Marth has a much better ledge game, and lo and behold get's characters (Link) off the stage fairly well (tipper fsmash at 50% should be a stock no matter the stage). Add that to the fact that of all the neutrals, with just a ban you can get rid of half of the small stages, with a ban and a strike you can get rid of both (YS and FOD), but they have a ban and a strike too so they can get rid of your large stages. It sucks.

 

[Stos]

Link > Peach in like midsize stages.
Though you can be close or far peach, you have to be within mid. You can land fairs and nairs after hitting her with projectiles and stuff. Also for killing dthrow to up b will like send her off stage but not kill, though it can lead into a kill. if shes recovering from the top just throw some projectiles and follow her to like Up B though when shes recovering from under you can just edge gaurd with like nair to like grab edge roll lol. Also try forcing her up top to like edge hop dair. but i recommend just to edge roll her (LOL new killing technique) when shes recovering from under. but yea its really hard to combo peach. just dont take her to like yoshis or dreamland, or fod (your choice). Dthrow Uair is like gg for peach. also bomb or rang to Dair is like instant death around 100%

 

[Cia]

this might sound like another stupid question. but what makes Falco Link's 3rd worst match up?? I would have thought it was Marth or Falcon =/

I know falco's Lasers are annoying to everyone, but Link spend's sooo much time in one of his Full hop Nairs, it's hard for me to see why falco has that much of an impact

 

[Skler]

About Link comboing peach, Link's projectiles are too laggy and his bombs give about half the stun of young Links and have more knockback. If Peach DIs away Link can't combo off his bombs at all unless he was already jumping. Link's lag is also bad enough that he has to be far away when throwing the boomerang (Peach plows through it like nothing) so he can't combo out of it well.

Are those pichus with strange colors or some strange NEW pokemon I don't understand?

Falco can pew pew pew and run away before pew pew pewing more. He can just run past the FJ nair and pew pew pew some more. Falco is just too annoying, he also has solid combos on Link and shuts down his projectile game on most stages.

As far as Link's matchups are concerned I'll make a little tier list for characters vs Link.

Vicious ****:
Sheik
Fox

****:
Falco
Captain Falcon

Disadvantage:
Marth
Doctor Mario
Mario

Slight disadvantage:
Peach
Young Link

Even (or too close to call):
Jiggs
ICs
Luigi
DK
Zelda?
Pikachu

Slight advantage:
Samus?
Ness
Yoshi
Roy
G&W?

Advantage:
Kirby
Pichu

Why did you pick this character?:
Mewtwo
Bowser


That's up for discussion since a lot of the low tiers are debatable. Zelda and G&W are really strange matchups. Anybody who I wasn't really sure about has a question mark after their name, the others are in the spot/tier they belong.

 

[Cia]

whooa. young link has an advantage?? can you please elaborate on that some more. I secondary Young Link and I find Link to be a hard match up because of Link's range and link being hard to kill. YL has a little speed over link, but =/ idk, it just doesn't seem to be enough

 

[Slasherx]

Link has variety of moves that can leave him open UpB for example.
However most of his moves make large knock back,
so I'm not sure if Tlink has advantage over Link.
Even if Tlink have a bit more speed he's for combo, meanwhile Link is a 1-2 hit.

 

[Cia]

TLink?? LOL

 

[elvenarrow3000]

They're Plusle and Minun. They SUCK. Seriously. They're only useful in doubles and in doubles they both die to a single Earthquake.

Although most Electric types suck anyway.

 

[Winston]

Doc and Mario are in the "Disadvantage" category (instead of Slight or Even)?

I don't play Link and all so I'm not challenging your reasoning, I'd just like to hear it. My impression was that Mario didn't have enough range/ability to punish projectiles to be too big a threat.

 

[Skler]

YL runs around spamming and Link just runs around slowly getting hit in the face. What YL lacks in killing power he makes up for in running away and comboing off of his superior projectiles. YL also has a decent edgeguard vs Link and plenty of moves that send Link off the edge (wtf is with that dsmash and dash attack).

Also, TLink.

Doc and Mario have a more spammable projectile with less lag. Link generally has to approach them and gets worked because of it. Doc/Mario also have a beastly approach, great shield pressure game (on Link only) an easy edgeguard against Link and are difficult to combo/kill. They have good combos on Link and since they don't actually need to finish (just send you off the edge and edgeguard) their lack of good KO moves doesn't really matter. Doc also has a great finishing combo that can KO Link on most stages around 110%.

They also have CGs against Link, Mario's is amazing while Doc's is just ok.

 

[Axel.EmO]

Young link is better in every single way.

Hes faster
Hes more agile
Hes smaller
He drinks milk

I don't see why anyone would use link?

He is weaker
His chain doesn't reach as far as Adult Link
His sword is smaller
His throw is less vigorous

 

[Stos]

young link short chain hurts his recovery badly. =(

 

[HiIH]

Doc and Mario have a more spammable projectile with less lag. Link generally has to approach them and gets worked because of it. Doc/Mario also have a beastly approach, great shield pressure game (on Link only) an easy edgeguard against Link and are difficult to combo/kill. They have good combos on Link and since they don't actually need to finish (just send you off the edge and edgeguard) their lack of good KO moves doesn't really matter. Doc also has a great finishing combo that can KO Link on most stages around 110%.

Yeah, I've gotten to play DogySamich's Doc a fair amount lately. Chain grab to around twenty>Fsmash sucks, since one grab leads to around an unpunished 30%. Tried to DI or DJ, but if the doc hits you with an Fsmash during the chaingrab times, it's kind of unavoidable. Only thing Link REALLY has on Doc/Mario is range. If you can keep Doc off of you with Range, and occaisonally cut through his pills/fireballs with a nair every now and then you've got it.

One of the biggest problems I've found is that Dsmash is very punishable. Jabs into Dsmashes suddenly get a little dangerous, because after Doc/Mario gets pushed back by it, they can wavedash back up to you instantly and Dsmash you. Upairs and Utilts do stop there normal way of juggle breaking (falling back through with dairs), but you have to make sure your Uair is good and out...

 

[Shaeman111]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01zZkjMaVlk

the fox may not be so great, and i was alittle off my game, but critique plz?