[Left 4 Scum] Game Over: Scum Win

[KevinM]

Who do you think your partners would aim for?

And yes thank-you

 

[Ronike]

Entirely depends on who my partners are. Seriously. I cannot give an answer to this without knowing who said partners are.

 

[KevinM]

Hmm then lets do this.

Who do you think your partners would aim for if they were: Marshy, Mentos and Macman.

Who do you think your partners would aim for if they were: Sold2, Cello, and Mayling.

 

[Xiivi]

Kevin you know your questioning has conveniently curbed a lot of the discussion that was going on right? Did you feel the current argument between McFox/Ronike, Kat's play, etc... were leading us nowhere?

 

[KevinM]

I didn't think a significant portion of the game was going to comment on it as whenever a particular conversation dominates a day, it allows people to coast. I think its something to look at, and it doesn't have to stop all together but who says we can't have more then one thing going on, mirite?

 

[Pythag]

Holy wow, lot of posts.

@Kevin, I don't necessarily feel that posting a role clears anyone. Play style clears people IMO more than a role.

 

[Circus]

Jesus, I'm lagging behind this game. Let me try to get back to a few questions that were specifically directed at me and then get something substantial up before the Top Chef finale starts.

 

[Chaco]

Play style clears people IMO more than a role.

Tenative QFT here. Playstyle can be majorly deceptive with some of the players though. With the better players here I tend to look at them as scum and move them away from scum deeming play.

I never like Marshys play when I'm town. He's too unreadable. Marshy intimidates me when I don't have the upperhand on him.

 

[Mayling]

I like the question game

Mayling: I know you've played with Cello_Marl and Sold2 before, so in that case, what can you tell us about them as players, and what kind of vibes are you getting from them currently?

I already said I was getting general townie vibes from both. I didn't elaborate though, so I'll do my best.

Why? It's hard to explain...

First off... Cello. Well, I think he is townie because he seems to care less about this game. I think Cello tries harder when he is scum. I think he gets more involved. I think that as scum, there is more to lose if you are lynched. When you are lynched as scum, townies laugh at you for getting caught. It is a victory. When you are lynched as town, to a degree you get to laugh at your fellow townies because a mistake has been made (whether the mistake has legitimate backings or not depends on what happened). Cello is not the type of person who likes to get caught, and therefore tries very hard not to get caught as scum... he tries harder to not get caught as scum than scum-hunting as town. I think he is a much better scum player than a town player. For instance... I think he gets lynched more often as a townie than he does scum, because he is trying harder as scum to not get lynched. I don't think he would be as inactive as he is in a game like this as scum, because being scum would entice him into playing.

S2... Uhm, well, the reason why I think S2 is town... Normally in a game where he knew people he would be more aggressive.. because he could ask people questions and actually be able to read them. But it was his response in this post: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=9001171&postcount=144 that lead me most to believe he is town. I think S2 as scum likes to keep his answers short; precise. Like, real short. And you may say that his answers have been lacking in quantity but when he did post, there was sort of a substantial weight to it. And it made me realize that S2 as scum would keep his posts short, because there would be less meat for people to scrutinize... that by keeping his answers short, there would be less to catch him on. And by saying this, I think S2 thinks he's clever by keeping his posts short and neat as scum, but really it's just a giveaway. (hugs S2) But this post had more to it, and therefore it gave me a vibe he was town.

I am more confident that Cello is town than S2.

 

[Mayling]

Here are my questions to you, KevinM. Please answer them as I have kindly answered yours. Thanks!

If you were infected, what would your general D1 strategy be optimally in an 18 person game.

Do you think town can benefit from a quick lynch and looking for up to four clears today, what do you think the likelihood of us nailing infected D1 is.

Who are your current top 5 suspects and a brief synopsis as for why?

If you were going into a 9 person MYLO cause town has done absolutely TERRIBLE this game, who would be the 4 others you would want on your side.

Mayling, Mcfox, Marshy, and Mentosman are incapped, who are you voting to keep around in this type of game. Don't spare anyones feelings and let me know why you're keeping the person you wanted around.

Mayling, Cello, and S2 have been incapped. Who do you uncap and why?

If you were infected what player would you be looking to incap today.

If you were an infected and your other teammates were weaker players, or players that you didn't think would be able to handle a game such as this what would be your optimal strategy to make sure you were able to garner a win.

Pythag, Circus, Cello, and Ronike are incapped tomorrow, which one do you vote to bring back and whats your reasonings for bringing them back.

What do you think town should REALLY be looking for in this game. A game devoid of flavor and roles, do you think breadcrumbs are the focus or is there something else you think should be concentrated on instead?

 

[#HBC | Mac]

i like mayling

 

[Circus]

This goes to everyone, but this post made me think of it. WHY is everyone splitting their posts up into random lines? I've noticed almost everyone start new lines where there's really no reason for it. Can't we just put two sentences on the same line instead of separating them and making the post look strange?

This is interesting. While that break up of lines (as well as other break ups of lines) is indeed unnecessary, I think that kind of thing is common practice on SWF in general. Especially with short posts like that. For whatever reason, people have just adopted this style of lengthening their posts by stuttering their thoughts over several breaks.

I bring this up, because I think the fact that you've reacted to that post in this way could explain why you saw "HIT(S)" in my post due to some kind of unnatural paragraph breaking, despite the fact that I think my breaks were fluid. I had initially thought that you had simply gone off the deepend while trying to find breadcrumbs. Then I started to think that maybe it was actually some kind of infected gambit to cement what you might have thought was a likely town lynch without seeming scummy. But now, this right here might be a town tell. Or at least a sincerity tell, if I could call it that. Will dwell on it.

Circus: Why are you worried about me? For the same reasons as Cello and apparently Xiivi, or is there something else you don't like?

I suppose you could say that, as I do agree on both of their points that it is better to keep the possible breadcrumb observations to yourself until it turns into something closer to empirical evidence (if it ever does). Especially since when you don't do that, you end up with situations like mine, where I'm forced to defend something that hadn't even intended to write and it's basically up to everyone else to determine if they feel like believing me or not. It's too subjective.

However, the more specific point that's floating around in my head against you right now has to do with your stance on severing connections between the infected. You've made your case for this strategy over and over again, but I can't find common ground with you on it. You claim that it will be better for us if we force the infected to act independently, when that should, in reality, make it impossible for us to connect them to each other. That makes each scum that we have to find a separate investigation. With as many as 4 scum to find, I don't like our odds of being able to do that. The scum will be able to incap people every Night, and it will be bad for us regardless of whether or not they can communicate with each other. If they all incap different people, that's 3 soon-to-be-dead bodies for us. If they all manage to accidentally target the same person, that's one immediately dead body and no clears, which is still bad for us. It just doesn't seem like cutting off their communications actually inhibits scum to the degree that you claim to think it does and it had made me begin to wonder if this could be your way of throwing the town off the obvious hunting methods or something. I'm waflling on it.

@Kevin: I'm gonna start by saying that I had the same visceral reaction to your questions that people like Macman and Ronike had. As it is, we don't need the infected to have any more weapons to use against us tomorrow by knowing what we would do as scum and then trying to frame us with it (if they haven't already begun doing that). I flat-out don't like that you've asked questions like this that DO so clearly give the infected information to work with. However, in order to try to appease you (and since I don't think scum could actually use this against me), I'll say that I determined a long time ago that the if I were to ever actually get a scum role, I would just attempt to play exactly as I would as a townie if I could. And I think that this set up would allow me to do that more easily than usual (which is why I don't like Mentos trying to cut off communications with the infected. It just makes things harder to me). If I were doing it right, I wouldn't be playing too much differently than I am right now. And yes, I'm aware of how many favors that statement doesn't do for me, but I feel comfortable knowing that at least scum can't use that against me since I've already incurred suspicion over my play.

Also, this part isn't really your fault so much as it is the town's apparent inability to multitask, but I don't like that the conversation surrounding Ronike and McFox has stopped. I felt it was headed somewhere. If I'm up to it, I'll go back through the Ronike/McFox thing after Top Chef is over and see what pops out to me.

 

[McFox]

I'm still waiting for the full response that Ronike promised.

 

[Ronike]

Kevin, you want those to be specific, or general like mine was?

 

[KevinM]

@ Ronike as specific as you can possibly be thanks.


@ Circus you missed my question.


Mayling gets her separate post.

 

[Ronike]

So, you acknowledge that putting someone very close to the lynch is scummy, but if you're farther away from the end of the lynch, you're more innocent?

Wouldn't scum, then, join a scumbuddy's lynch pool earlier if it was looking like he was the only viable lynch of the day (as it was looking like Circus was)?

Depends upon the situation. A scum player could do it that way, or they could try to stay off the wagon entirely in hopes that town do it themselves and then the scum can go back and pass blame out. My personal favorite.

So, because something is common internet lingo, it CAN'T be a breadcrumb? Doesn't that just give scum a free pass to breadcrumb all they want to, as long as they use common phrases? If Circus is scum, and the other scum know it, they're going to be looking for phrases like, hmm, maybe "quick hits" in his posts? I'm not even saying for sure that it is a breadcrumb, what I'm saying is that you saying it CAN'T be a breadcrumb is incredibly scummy.

Well first off, I love that you completely leave out where I mentioned that quick hits could have been a breadcrumb, but probably isn't, even though I said it multiple times. Again with the picking and choosing?

Second, what I was reffering to was all the zombie BCing, as that couldn't be a BC as what would it be crumbing? So no, it couldn't be a BC. Again, since you continuously seem to miss this, this is excluding the quick hits thing, which could be a breadcrumb, but probably isn't.

That's clearly RVS from me, as only one other person actually did it.

Point still remains that had it worked, you would have likely had a full day of posting where people thought about how they would escape the zombie apocalypse instead of thinking about the game or "randomly voting". It's one thing to encourage people to randomly vote, which requires no thought, but you were trying to waste time with it. Not a huge deal, but still something to note, so I did.

No. What I AM saying (pay attention) is that, by using common terminology, scum can breadcrumb to each other and play it off as "Oh come on, that's just common terminology." This line of thinking from you is practically BEGGING them to do exactly this.

Look, I realize this. That's why I was on the Circus wagon, remember? Fact of the matter is, the HITS paragraphs could just have been coincidence (it wasn't that weirdly worded so as to force a BC) and he used quick hits as a phrase before, so I'm inclined to think it's coincidence. It's not like if he had done those two things and like, 3 other BC type things I wouldn't be on his lynch. But 2 things? Could easily be coincidence.

I only think Circus is scum if you are, due to your reactions. If you die and flip town or are incapped, that would do a lot towards clearing Circus in my mind.

Not much to say on this one.

Joining the lynch earlier so that you can say "Yeah, I put him at L-4, but the guy who put him at L-2 or L-1 is really scummy!"

Or getting on his lynch cause I thought he was scummy... Honestly, you could say anyone on a townie's lynch is scummy with this train of thought. That's why its better to work with degrees. Hence, yes, the person that puts a townie @ L-2 or L-1 is scummy unless the town has decided that person is the play.

Alright, let's take note of it:

"Hey look, Gheb is doing his Marshy impression. Too bad he's got a large bite-mark on his arm and he's been shivering uncontrollably. I don't think he has long. We should kill him.

And Ronike, the plan you just said is the opposite of a good plan. We want maximum communication today, because tomorrow, we can have as many as 4 cleared people to talk to during the day. Yes, we can only save one of them, but that gives us at least 2 clears and they can both vote. These people's opinions will be a lot more valuable than anyone else's, so the more we give them to work with toDay, the more informed they'll be tomorrow.

Ronike is our second zombie."

How does anything in that post mean that I want to end the day early? I look forward to hearing the explanation.

I forgot to note later on, but this is one of the things you contradict. You say you want lots of information, but later on you say you will wagon a whole lot because there are too many people. Wagoning fairly randomly doesn't give a whole lot of info in my experience...

Plus, since I'm on the subject here, wagoning and hopping off when its close to the hammer? Pretty much incredibly scummy. That just means people that look back at vote counts won't see you on the lynch of a townie, even though you were for it. Its much better to throw your vote where you plan to keep it (barring a few exceptions) otherwise you are just being misleading.

Hmm, let's see what I said here:

"I like it

Unvote: Vote: Circus

My brain has difficulty processing this many players in one game, so I'm probably going to end up wagoning more than usual. Feel free to hold it against me."

Say this with me:

Wagoning =/= lynching

if someone got too close to a lynch before the end of the day, I would have unvoted. Wagon-hopping literally means that I'll vote for people more liberally than I would in a smaller game, NOT lynch them early.

Didn't really get to this part when I was reading before. But still, why would you wagon hop? In my experience, the only real reasons to wagon hop is to throw around suspicion or pressure. And since its not the latter, its pretty scummy in my book. So yeah, at least lynching shows that you have conviction. Wagon hopping is just misleading, at least the way you've been going at it.

I really need some clarification on this one.
How do I in any way "acknowledge what you are saying with a 'general desire to end the day early'?"

You pointed out that I wanted to end the day early immediately after Circus asked if that's what I meant. Looks like acknowledgment to me. Here are the posts BTW:

Ok, I feel that this was worded very poorly. Right here, you're saying that you want to end Day 1 fairly fast, correct? Because if you're implying that I'm pushing for that, I'm gonna give you such a pinch.

Yeah, from what I remember, it was Ronike who wanted to end the day early, not Circus.

And they were a full hour apart, so no ninja johns.

Wrong again! Let's look. The following is from the post that Ronike is responding to above:


"The fact of the matter is that I can't play the way I normally do with this many players. So my D1 strategy is to be a part of a wagon that I like when the day ends, while also showing where my other suspicions lie."

Read the underlined and then tell how it in any way means I want to end the day early.

Try the whole thing. First off, you can point out suspicions with FOS' you don't need to wagon hop. Second, by pointing out your suspicions with votes, you are encouraging people to lynch that person BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT VOTES ARE FOR. To lynch people. By throwing votes out all around, you will eventually find a wagon people like and then end the day. Faster than just putting one vote out there, huh?

How does this in ANY WAY mean I want to end the day early. I still want the day to have the maximum amount of time. However, at the END OF THE DAY, I feel like we have a chance to lynch scum, if we lynch you.

I admit to skimming here, but I legitimately was running out of time by that point as I had somewhere to be.

 

[KevinM]

Here are my questions to you, KevinM. Please answer them as I have kindly answered yours. Thanks!

If you were infected, what would your general D1 strategy be optimally in an 18 person game.

In an 18 person game, there's a lot of room for error D1 as scum. I would try and be extremely vocal from the very beginning garner a lot of attention and generate a lot of discussion. I would lead the town on wild goose chase, pointing out non-existent bread crumbs. Scum slips from the stupidest of sayings, IE, if someone says they're brain dead I'm going to push them hard for a freudian slip of being a zombie. I'm going to make sure i'm actively in pushing lynches for the first few days because as infected you can just chalk those up to the person who was mislynched playing poorly and most of the town whom you've been leading since early D1 will be inclined to agree with you since you've laid out your case and reason for pushing.

This isn't to say I'm just saying make a bandwagon like we had earlier on Circus, where there wasn't A LOT of substantial evidence, minus the breadcrumbing of course. I'm talking you want to go Post by post with your subject, really lay into them, and when they respond further twist their words and strawman them into looking even scummier then they actually are. Optimally by playing aggressively D1 you establish yourself as the go to townie as infected.

Do you think town can benefit from a quick lynch and looking for up to four clears today, what do you think the likelihood of us nailing infected D1 is.

I think that town does NOT benefit from a quick lynch today, discussion is whats going to win this game for us. You don't not find contradictions and you do not apply pressure during a quick lynch. Except on the one person whom you're lynching. You're not going to press them for a role in this scenario, nor are you going to get any strong reactions from either side. They're simply going to have to accept the fate of being quick lynched, it's not like they can make a claim to save themselves. If a quick lynch happens, or happened, I stand by the claim that we have gained nothing. I think our chances of lynching scum D1 is rather low, but not abysmally low in fact I'd put it somewhere around 35 percent. Higher then the mathematical probability but not enough to bet it all on black as they say.

Who are your current top 5 suspects and a brief synopsis as for why?

Top five suspects is pretty hard. However I can safely say my current top 3 are. Macman, Marshy and Ronike. As for elaborations.

Macman: As I pointed out, him saying not to answer questions is a direct contradiction to the way he played in another game. In fact he condemned the very people whom were dodging the questions in that game. He's saying the reasoning is simply the game is different, but I disagree, i feel there may be an ulterior motive here. Considering any denial of discussion is a scum tell I'm bound to be a little bit suspicious but coupled with the fact that it's a direct contradiction to Macman's usual style, it puts him on the top of my list for a lynch.

MarshyKing: Hasn't done a lot really, that's to be expected, but in this situation he also discouraged the answering of questions as well as directly avoiding his own. He hasn't contributed anything and I don't seem doing so that and the fact that the hybrid nature of the account means its harder to get a read on two different players especially ones who are VASTLY different players, makes them a threat as infected. Would like to see them lynched.

Ronike: The weakest of my three candidates, the thing I didn't like about Ronike is at first he decided he wouldn't answer my questions and seemed quite vehement about not answering them. After only an hour he conceded to not only answering them but to make sure he was getting everything about the question correct. Unlike where Marshking and Macman simply copped out Ronike conceded and I'm not sure if he was looking to score some gg points or if he merely realized where I was coming from with the questions.

If you were going into a 9 person MYLO cause town has done absolutely TERRIBLE this game, who would be the 4 others you would want on your side.

If I had four cleared townies going with me into a lylo and only I knew they were clear, as this is how the question is supposed to read. I would want, Mentos, Mcfox, Mayling, and Cello. These are the people whom in my mind are willing to answer questions and glean information off of them. They are open to various points of discussion and from what I've seen of them, they aren't hasty with their decisions. That makes them the PERFECT candidate for going into lylo with. In fact I would bank on that town powerhouse to make the right decision each day. This is of course a question disregarding the mechanics of the game considering the number of incaps available in a night but you get the point.

Mayling, Mcfox, Marshy, and Mentosman are incapped, who are you voting to keep around in this type of game. Don't spare anyones feelings and let me know why you're keeping the person you wanted around.

In order I would probably vote for

Mentos
Marshy
Mayling
Mcfox

Reason being, having a cleared Mentos is great, his deductive abilities are always really good, and most of all he's really great at making the case to let you know what he's thinking.

Marshy's deductive abilities are SCARY good, I don't understand him sometimes. But as for helping the rest of town, not so much. However knowing he's clear is a huge boon for his style of play so I could deal with the headches of his play style knowing that he's scumhunting on my side and not psuedohunting on theirs.

Mayling at third because I like her ability to ask a lot of questions and her knowledge of the newer players is really really valuable in a game where picking up reads is going to be a little harder then most.

Mcfox rounds it off not because he's the worst of the three but because I feel in this type of game his well rounded play wouldn't be a boon to MYSELF as much as the others. I need someone that can excel in one area.

Mayling, Cello, and S2 have been incapped. Who do you uncap and why?

Mayling again, see above for the reasons.

Cello hasn't been as vocal and he's a little more concise and as a newer player I'm not quite sure how to handle him

S2 rarely posts so its very difficult to put a bead on him

If you were infected what player would you be looking to incap today.

First I would try and rationalize in my head what my teammates are going to incap and look for those. I will most definitely try and hit the same targets my teammates are because that way i minimize the number of clears that town can work with the next day. Furthermore I would look for the less vocal players that are looking more like inexperienced townies, because now all they can offer is the fact that they're clear, leaving the more experienced players whom are normally wrapped in a little more mystery be it because their playstyles are in general hard to read or just because they're playing really well left to scrutiny and hopefully mislynched.

If you were an infected and your other teammates were weaker players, or players that you didn't think would be able to handle a game such as this what would be your optimal strategy to make sure you were able to garner a win.

Quite simply D1 and D2 I might just play my game really ignoring the fact that I even have scummates, play it like I was a traitor. Later in the game however as things become narrowed down and the clears # is starting to rise up, I would bus a teammate, knowing in fact that this move MIGHT just by me another day in towns good graces before I really have to amp my game up.

Pythag, Circus, Cello, and Ronike are incapped tomorrow, which one do you vote to bring back and whats your reasonings for bringing them back.

This question I wanted answered first so I'm leaving it here until after someone answers it.

What do you think town should REALLY be looking for in this game. A game devoid of flavor and roles, do you think breadcrumbs are the focus or is there something else you think should be concentrated on instead?

I think breadcrumbs are actually kind of pointless to look for and would MUCH rather win off of this right here, questioning each other and trying to take away from it what we can. Put ourselves in each others shoes both as town and infected and try and read into what the person would say to each question under those two alignments as well as eventually taking away from what we can with the night incaps.

Anyone else feel like answering the questions directed at them so we can keep going?

 

[Ronike]

I agreed to answer them because I figured out a way to do it without giving away too much info. Garnering information is nice, but not when it gives the mafia an opportunity to coordinate in a situation where they can say "look, he told me to do it".

I'm not usin names. Too much room for framing.

Marshy, Mentos and Macman:
Marshy would prolly go after one of the new players/bad players.
Mentos is kinda hard, because I'm not too familiar with his scum play (I never really pay much attention to him TBH... sorry), but if I had to hazard a guess, I'd say he'd go after someone who he buddied day 1.
Macman would go after someone who is attacking and then use some WIFOM the next day to try and seem like he was being framed

Sold2, Cello, and Mayling.
Sold2 would likely go after whoever he thinks is the best in order to try to get them killed.
Cello is kinda hard, but I think he would go after whoever seems the most clear if I had to say. Least sure on this one for sure though.
Mayling I think would go after whoever she didn't like.

 

[Mayling]

Awh, you flatter me KevinM. Thank you for your answers.

Mayling I think would go after whoever she didn't like.

This is certainly untrue.

 

[Ronike]

That's what I would assume with you as a scum partner. That's the strongest attribute of your playstyle that I've seen from other games: you go after people based on emotions rather than scuminess. It doesn't matter if its true or not, the question was what would I think.

 

[McFox]

Point still remains that had it worked, you would have likely had a full day of posting where people thought about how they would escape the zombie apocalypse instead of thinking about the game or "randomly voting". It's one thing to encourage people to randomly vote, which requires no thought, but you were trying to waste time with it. Not a huge deal, but still something to note, so I did.

I find it interesting that you take something that I did not do and hold it against me.

I forgot to note later on, but this is one of the things you contradict. You say you want lots of information, but later on you say you will wagon a whole lot because there are too many people. Wagoning fairly randomly doesn't give a whole lot of info in my experience...

It's not a contradiction at all. Yes, I wanted maximum information for cleared townies. I did not say that I was going to be the one to get that information. What you're quoting is my general attitude that people should talk as much as possible. Like I said, I did not think I'd be able to find any information worth the town's time on D1.

Plus, since I'm on the subject here, wagoning and hopping off when its close to the hammer? Pretty much incredibly scummy. That just means people that look back at vote counts won't see you on the lynch of a townie, even though you were for it.

Hmm, did you forget to point out that I would go back to the wagon I like at the end of the day? Looks like you did. Pretty much incredibly scummy.

Its much better to throw your vote where you plan to keep it (barring a few exceptions) otherwise you are just being misleading.

It isn't misleading if I put my vote on lynches I like. That way if I die before I have a chance to talk to town as a cleared individual, they'll know where my suspicions were lying.

Didn't really get to this part when I was reading before. But still, why would you wagon hop? In my experience, the only real reasons to wagon hop is to throw around suspicion or pressure. And since its not the latter, its pretty scummy in my book. So yeah, at least lynching shows that you have conviction. Wagon hopping is just misleading, at least the way you've been going at it.

I wagon-hopped because I had legitimate reasons for voting for everyone that I did. Also worth noting is the phrase "to throw around suspicion or pressure." If you'd read my reasons for all of my votes, then you'd know that this is exactly what I was doing (with the exception of Gheb, who was an RVS vote). I'm not going to re-give my reasons, because I know you've read it, and are just hoping people have forgotten about my reasons and will take you at your word over about this.

You pointed out that I wanted to end the day early immediately after Circus asked if that's what I meant. Looks like acknowledgment to me. Here are the posts BTW:

[quotes]

And they were a full hour apart, so no ninja johns.

I don't understand what your point is here, is what I was saying.

Try the whole thing. First off, you can point out suspicions with FOS' you don't need to wagon hop. Second, by pointing out your suspicions with votes, you are encouraging people to lynch that person BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT VOTES ARE FOR. To lynch people. By throwing votes out all around, you will eventually find a wagon people like and then end the day. Faster than just putting one vote out there, huh?

First off, just because you CAN point out suspicions with a FoS doesn't mean you HAVE to. It's my vote, and if I feel like voting someone to pressure them instead of hitting them with a much weaker FoS, then there's nothing wrong with that. FoS' are ignorable, votes are not.

Second, I realize that by pointing out my suspicions with votes, I am encouraging people to lynch that person. Seeing as how I'm suspicious of them, I would want them lynched. If votes were the ONLY way town could communicate, this would be a bad strategy. But since we can also talk and explain our votes, there is no reason that it's a problem.

Thirdly, I am not the only member of town, nor am I in charge of it. Throwing a single vote around is not going to somehow magically trick everybody into lynching someone early.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

Xbawks hueg posts Day 1? That's pretty epic.

Lovin' the fact that I'll actually have some substance to catch up on this weekend. Lookin' forward to joining the fun.

I was sorta skimming just to get a general idea of what you guys are talking about and I find it very odd that you all are discussing hypothetical incap scenarios. Why is this? Spoon feeding what you will and will not do in a given incap scenario to the infected is just a plain bad idea. You're just feeding them ideas for who to cap and who to incap to set up the most WIFOMy and conflict creating scenario tomorrow. You're basically doing their work for them by allowing them to not have to out guess the intentions of the town. I really don't see how explaining the whats and why behind such hypothetical scenarios is beneficial to the town, or really very productive in any way.

 

[Vyse]

17. Vyse: If you were infected what would be your optimal D1 strategy?

It would probably be to talk about a possible strategy for communication and then see if any of my scummates try to use it. Or to wait for somebody to mention somebody, then make a post that mentions them in passing, and hope that the others take it as a signal to single that player out.

I won't elaborate on possible strategies I can think of when it comes to that since I don't want to give scum any ideas, but at this point the three things we need to do is look for hidden messages, people who only mention players that become eventual lynch targets and good old fashioned scum hunting.

Sorry for not keeping up with the game as much, I hate IRL johning.
I will be able to go into super saiyan mode about 4-5 days from now though.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

Vote Count:
[5] Not Voting (Chaco, Vyse, Mayling, Kataefi, Macman)
[4] Circus (Xiivi, KevinM, Sold2, Mediocre)
[2] Ronike (frozenflame, McFox)
[2] McFox (Pythag, Ronike)
[2] frozenflame751 (mentosman8, Gheb_01)
[1] mentosman8 (Cello_Marl)
[1] Gheb_01 (The Marsh King)
[1] Cello_Marl (Circus)
[0] Macman ()
[0] Sold2 ()
[0] Kataefi ()
[0] Pythag ()
[0] Vyse ()
[0] Mayling ()
[0] Chaco ()
[0] KevinM ()
[0] Mediocre ()
[0] The Marsh King ()
[0] Xiivi ()

With 18 players alive, it takes 10 to lynch.
A deadline has been set for Wednesday, December 16th, Noon EST.

 

[Circus]

@ Circus you missed my question.

I think I answered it in a general way, actually. But to put it more concisely, I think I'd just try to play like an overactive townie. So on D1, I guess I'd probably try to be vocal and maybe see if I could start a few wagons. Would probably ignore the fact that I even had scumbuddies. Might even immediately try throwing one of them under the bus if a wagon had already started on them. Specifically, I think this set up allows for and even encourages that kind of strategy for the infected, so I'd pretty much just look out for #1. Scum are in a perfect position to play just like a townie in this game.

More Macman and FrozenFlame please. And throw some Mediocre in there while you're at it.

 

[The Marsh King]

kevin = scum or scum's best friend

I didn't think a significant portion of the game was going to comment on it as whenever a particular conversation dominates a day, it allows people to coast. I think its something to look at, and it doesn't have to stop all together but who says we can't have more then one thing going on, mirite?

you're not talking about the "particular conversation" that's dominated the day

A lurker or Marsh King.

Preferably lurker.

name names? any interest in wagoning sold2?

gheb and sold2 are my picks right now. i'd hop on either of their wagons in a heartbeat. am i alone in this? a response to what i said about circus' 234 would help me

marshy

 

[Xiivi]

unvote: vote: gheb

Marsh King you said 234 lines up with a lot of your thinking.

I didn't even feel like there was enough of McFox vs. Pythag to have the TvT vibe (or any vibe) from it. McFox vs. Ronike is a different story. I feel better about McFox than Ronike.

Everything else in the post isn't too far off from my thoughts though, except maybe Kat who seems to be playing the "innocent" card he did in grammys.

 

[KevinM]

@Marshy you're still really suspicious for trying to paint me in a bad light like I'm helping scum instead of answering any question or TRYING at all to work with town.

 

[Chaco]

Marshy, I'm giving you some homework. Give me a 3 paragraph post (7 sentences in each) before the end of Day 1,

 

[Pythag]

gheb and sold2 are my picks right now. i'd hop on either of their wagons in a heartbeat. am i alone in this? a response to what i said about circus' 234 would help me

I've been ok with a gheb lynch for awhile...

 

[mentosman8]

Lol Chaco. And Circus, thanks for your response about your suspicion on me, believe it or not, that post helped me understand where you were coming from a lot(although I don't particularly agree with it). What I mean to say with my opinion with cutting off scum communication is this:

1. Scum still know who each other are. Their attempts at communication would not really help draw connections IMO(unless they tried to direct the whole team instead of say their plan), and the biggest and most useful connections would be based off regular interaction in the day, as with a game where they can communicate outside the thread. Forcing them to not communicate, in my mind, makes it a lot more similar to a normal game in how scum interact, without actually limiting our ability to connect them.

2. While(assuming 4 scum) we may gain four clears if we don't call out potential communication and scum coordinate, we lose 3 of them at the end of the day. When I say we force them to act independently, it refers to the night stage, not the day stage. We benefit more from having scum uncoordinated at night, because there are higher odds for scum to multihit, which gives us less clears but moves the game along at a more normal pace. If scum hits 4 separate people we lose a lot more than we gain IMO. If they double hit two people because they don't know what the others are doing, I feel it hurts us less. Perhaps less of a problem D1, but as the game moves forward this will make a HUGE difference in how long town has to find scum.

Now, I feel like I explained my thoughts better here than I had before, and hope, even if you disagree, you can now see where my head is at on this subject clearly.

 

[Kataefi]

6. Kataefi: If you were going into a 9 person MYLO cause town has done absolutely TERRIBLE this game, who would be the 4 others you would want on your side.

I don't know YET. I think it's too early on in the day for me to know exactly who I think has town and anti-town sentiments - for all I know someone could appear unbelievably helpful but be scum, or totally the opposite. I've never had a clear cut view of anyone in any game really.

I won't end your answer like that though - I'm getting good vibes from Mayling and Mentos, so I would consider them under that scenario you gave. Imo they haven't been overly talkative or underly quiet, but they have been productive in a sense and not overbearing in their views.

I have this pre-conceived thing in my head where I've always felt scum would either be extremely quiet or overly chatty on the first day to try to somewhat disguise themselves, and then shape the rest of their play from there if they survived D1.

_

But @Kevin... I thought some of your questions were very selective. I know you want everything out in the open... but I couldn't help but get the feeling you name dropped at very specific players...

Assuming you are a possible scum (and I'm in no way implying you are), by asking questions to EVERYONE you'll also be directly addressing your scum buddies. The very selective questioning also makes me a tad more suspicious because of this. It's a very pro-town way of slipping subtle coordination between mafia members. I can definitely see this as a pro-town thing to do but potentially for scum reasons... food for thought I guess...

So yeah... Kevin... why the selective questioning is my comeback question to you?

 

[Kataefi]

Oh and with that... it's interesting to see people's reactions to Kevin asking a bunch of questions! Some people were very open with their information, others were more private. Some answered more vaguely in hope they wouldn't reveal too much information to scum as a townie (something I personally felt was good, because it answers the question but doesn't hold signposts for good scum coordination).

I believe there could be a split that could be useful in somewhat identifying scum from town, though nothing is ever concrete, so this is just theory.

I'd go into more detail but it's 5am here so I'll post something tomorrow!

 

[mentosman8]

Oh, and one more thing to my comments on my reasons for cutting off scummunication, run some logistics for this game, and think of where we could potentially be by D3 if we allow scum to organize. You should see at least why I'm paranoid about letting them do so.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Could more people please hop on the frozen wagon? Now is a bad time to let people slip under the radar. The RVS is behind us now and thus serious discussion and connections are being made. Do you really want to give frozenscum a chance to avoid connections to other players by allowing him to coast like that? That dude needs to talk a lot more and start offering opinions. He's been plenty active in the Newbie game so why not here?

Kevin, I still think you're scummy for asking these questions. Both of the main reason I saw you posting look weak. First you say that it helps generating discussion but it's not like discussion wasn't being made at the time you asked those questions. In fact it seems like you try to distract from debates like McFox/Ronike/Circus/Mentos (which actually looked fruitful and if more players had given their opinion on it would have given us plenty of information and connections) for no apparent reason.
Additionally generating discussion that helps town is not pro-town behaviour if it helps scum more than it does town and the questions look exactly like this was your intention - generate discussion on the surface, provide information for infected players. The reason I'm thinking this is because they are very specific for such simple question. You ask 2 players about their opinion of 5 other players each and you ask another player about his top5 suspicions. That way you easily bring up information about up to 15 players (of 18) and not just "some" players. The fact that you specifically ask for names (or mention them yourself) and ask specific people about them doesn't make me think like you ask for these names randomly - you just try to make it look like that.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Oh, and one more thing to my comments on my reasons for cutting off scummunication, run some logistics for this game, and think of where we could potentially be by D3 if we allow scum to organize. You should see at least why I'm paranoid about letting them do so.

But who said that we were going to wait until D3 to point out breadcrumbs? The point is that you talked about it much, much earlier than that. Probably about 3 or 4 RL days into the game. That's plenty of time to observe and investigate possible breadcrumbs before anybody is incaptivated. You could've waited about 10 days to see if something noteworthy or more incriminating than "DUDS" and "HIT" comes up and then bring it to the table. Communication wold've still ended up being shut down before anything happens and at the same time we might have gotten our hands on stronger material than that.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Correction:

But who said that we were going to wait until D3 to point out breadcrumbs? The point is that you talked about it much, much earlier than that. Probably about 3 or 4 RL days into the game while D1 lasts about 2 weeks. That's plenty of time to observe and investigate possible breadcrumbs before anybody is incaptivated. You could've waited about 10 days to see if something noteworthy or more incriminating than "DUDS" and "HIT" comes up and then bring it to the table. Communication wold've still ended up being shut down before anything happens and at the same time we might have gotten our hands on stronger material than that.

 

[The Marsh King]

@Marshy you're still really suspicious for trying to paint me in a bad light like I'm helping scum instead of answering any question or TRYING at all to work with town.

you should be painted in a bad light. i still think you could've just asked some of those questions earlier or better yet talk about stuff that's been happening but you haven't commented on it much. you're asking us who we trust...why? could you help scum any more?

Marshy, I'm giving you some homework. Give me a 3 paragraph post (7 sentences in each) before the end of Day 1

what do you think of s2? what lurkers would you like to go after? i might make that post if you start contributing

 

[Mayling]

kevin = scum or scum's best friend

you're not talking about the "particular conversation" that's dominated the day

name names? any interest in wagoning sold2?

gheb and sold2 are my picks right now. i'd hop on either of their wagons in a heartbeat. am i alone in this? a response to what i said about circus' 234 would help me

marshy

you should be painted in a bad light. i still think you could've just asked some of those questions earlier or better yet talk about stuff that's been happening but you haven't commented on it much. you're asking us who we trust...why? could you help scum any more?

what do you think of s2? what lurkers would you like to go after? i might make that post if you start contributing

Why do you want to go for S2? cause he's a lurker? Why did you ignore the fact that I was getting pro-town vibes from him?

What makes this interesting is you're calling KevinM scum or scum's best friend, but then you say you want to bandwagon a lurker. If you think KevinM is scum, or helping scum, he isn't helping town... Why don't you vote for him? Instead you want to go for a lurker...

I guess I understand the philosophy of "lynch all lurkers" but ... you say here you think we have a scummy person but want to attack a lurker. It doesn't make sense to me. Especially when you have a person who has played with S2 a lot saying they're getting pro-town vibes... Doesn't make sense.

If I'm missing something, please feel free to clear it up. ^_^

 

[KevinM]

So are you in fact telling me Marshy you have ascertained absolutely NO information from the questions and the answers.

If so perhaps you are more useless then the players you routinely talk down upon.