[Left 4 Scum] Game Over: Scum Win

[Kataefi]

Mentos I totally understand what you're saying, and no I'm not skimming but at the same time I can't store page after page of information in my head.

I went back and reread the thread to see if I'd look at anything differently now that my thoughts are corrected. I immediately identified with Pythag's post, which is why I linked to it.

I measure the level of honesty in a mistake by how blatantly stupid it was... and I'm pretty embarrassed by the mistake I made =( There's also the fact I unvoted seconds after.

 

[KevinM]

My turn ^_^

Question time :D


1. Cello_Marl: I know you've played with Mayling and Sold2 before, so in that case, what can you tell us about them as players, and what kind of vibes are you getting from them currently?

2. Circus: Circus, if you were infected, what would your general D1 strategy be optimally in an 18 person game.

3. Chaco: Do you think town can benefit from a quick lynch and looking for up to four clears today, what do you think the likelihood of us nailing infected D1 is.

4. frozenflame751: You realize a game in which you can't die N1 makes me very wary of you correct? Do you plan on playing more like cop Frozenflame in which you make little posts but they're usually filled with a lot of concise content, or with no fear of dying do you plan on playing towards what we're more accustomed to?

5. Gheb_01: Who are your current top 5 suspects and a brief synopsis as for why?

6. Kataefi: If you were going into a 9 person MYLO cause town has done absolutely TERRIBLE this game, who would be the 4 others you would want on your side.

7. KevinM: Looking good man, I like the way you look with that bandana on !

8. Macman: Mayling, Mcfox, Marshy, and Myself are incapped, who are you voting to keep around in this type of game. Don't spare anyones feelings and let me know why you're keeping the person you wanted around.

9. Mayling: Same question that was directed at Cello except with him and Sold instead of you and Sold.

10. McFox: If you were infected what player would you be looking to incap today.

11. Mediocre: If you were an infected and your other teammates were weaker players, or players that you didn't think would be able to handle a game such as this what would be your optimal strategy to make sure you were able to garner a win.

12. mentosman8: Pythag, Circus, Cello, and Ronike are incapped tomorrow, which one do you vote to bring back and whats your reasonings for bringing them back.

13. Pythag: Do you think I'm clear for posting my town role literally moments after it was posted? Do you think anyone is cleared right now besides myself?

14. Ronike: As scum who would you be looking to incap tonight?

15. Sold2: Same question as directed towards Mayling and and Cello, also post who you think we should lynch currently.

16. The Marsh King: Top 3 lynch candidates and why.

17. Vyse: If you were infected what would be your optimal D1 strategy?

18. Xiivi: What do you think town should REALLY be looking for in this game. A game devoid of flavor and roles, do you think breadcrumbs are the focus or is there something else you think should be concentrated on instead?


Answers Please :D

 

[Ronike]

Don't have time for a full response, but I'm going to throw your own logic back at you: by throwing your vote around, maybe you are trying to get people lynched faster but seem a-ok bc you are on the wagon earlier.

 

[Ronike]

Oh, and I quoted all your posts bc ghebs too lazy to go back and read.

Who I'd incap depends entirely on my teamates and who I think they would incap. I can be more specific, but I'd rather not give scum any ideas.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

8. Macman: Mayling, Mcfox, Marshy, and Myself are incapped, who are you voting to keep around in this type of game. Don't spare anyones feelings and let me know why you're keeping the person you wanted around.

So many Ms.

If I was making the decision outside of what's happened so far in the game, I'd probably say marshy.

but thus far he has yet to do anything that makes me think he's town... actually the opposite.

mayling, no idea dunno what she's capable of. I've heard good things but haven't been really paying attention to her this game.

McFox is generally really helpful but I didn't exactly like his push for ronike seemed a bit like he was just going with the flow. Also didn't like his excuse for why he won't be able to make good observations and how he'd bw more simply because the game was big.

And you! Can't remember anything yuve done this game except for saying yu wanna lynch me because of my erratic behavior. Sadly saying that makes me think you're town..

So Iunno!

/copout answer

 

[KevinM]

So far FOS the Two Copouts

Answering these questions can generate discussion. By not doing so you are not helping town.

Ronike I don't care if you specifically say who you think is best to kill, please answer the question.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

It's kind of hard to truthfully answer a question like that given that the circumstances has yet to present themselves. And I can only speculate what i would do in that situation which may not be at all accurate. Also because you are basically telling me to pick the one between these 4 [good] players that i believe is the towniest, which a difficult question if you consider that i have yet found enough info to base my town reads on and given that it's hard to quantify how townie I think someone is...

 

[McFox]

Don't have time for a full response, but I'm going to throw your own logic back at you: by throwing your vote around, maybe you are trying to get people lynched faster but seem a-ok bc you are on the wagon earlier.

I look forward to hearing a full response, seeing as how this is BS. If you had read my post, you would have noted that I planned to unvote any wagon I was on until the end of the day if they got too close to a lynch.

And Macman, I assumed that I wouldn't be able to get much on D1. In the recent Mafia Sleepover which also had 18 people, I was pretty lost on D1, so ended up wagoning more than I like to. I figured the same thing would happen here. However, I ended up being wrong, seeing as how I think Ronike is scum.

Kev, to answer your question: incapping someone gives town information. It tells them that the person is not scum. So therefor, to minimize on the information garnered, I'd try to go for someone whom town was not suspicious of anyway. It's difficult to say who that would be at this point, since right now pretty much everyone has either had some suspicion at least lobbied their way, or else they've stopped playing entirely. So in that case, I'd probably go for a vet whom Town was likely to trust in the early game anyway. At the beginning of the game, town is going to be more trusting of people who have been playing for a while, as opposed to new players like Cello, Sold, or Mayling. So I'd probably go with some like you, Marsh, or frozen. If I absolutely had to pick right now, I'd probably go with Marsh.

 

[KevinM]

It's kind of hard to truthfully answer a question like that given that the circumstances has yet to present themselves. And I can only speculate what i would do in that situation which may not be at all accurate. Also because you are basically telling me to pick the one between these 4 [good] players that i believe is the towniest, which a difficult question if you consider that i have yet found enough info to base my town reads on and given that it's hard to quantify how townie I think someone is...

Stop copping out.

There are all four cleared now.

I am not asking you which one to be towniest. IF they are incapped they ARE town.

You know that stop beating around the question.

 

[KevinM]

I look forward to hearing a full response, seeing as how this is BS. If you had read my post, you would have noted that I planned to unvote any wagon I was on until the end of the day if they got too close to a lynch.

And Macman, I assumed that I wouldn't be able to get much on D1. In the recent Mafia Sleepover which also had 18 people, I was pretty lost on D1, so ended up wagoning more than I like to. I figured the same thing would happen here. However, I ended up being wrong, seeing as how I think Ronike is scum.

Kev, to answer your question: incapping someone gives town information. It tells them that the person is not scum. So therefor, to minimize on the information garnered, I'd try to go for someone whom town was not suspicious of anyway. It's difficult to say who that would be at this point, since right now pretty much everyone has either had some suspicion at least lobbied their way, or else they've stopped playing entirely. So in that case, I'd probably go for a vet whom Town was likely to trust in the early game anyway. At the beginning of the game, town is going to be more trusting of people who have been playing for a while, as opposed to new players like Cello, Sold, or Mayling. So I'd probably go with some like you, Marsh, or frozen. If I absolutely had to pick right now, I'd probably go with Marsh.

Interesting, this is exactly the way I was looking at it right up until who you chose. Marshy is a perfect example of someone in this game whom as scum I would not incap. His short concise and often out of nowhere posts are something that a lot of newer players are going to have a hard time getting a read on. But I like where your head is at but do you agree with where I am coming from?

 

[#HBC | marshy]

16. The Marsh King: Top 3 lynch candidates and why.

gheb. i'm bothered that some of the questions you're asking halfway to deadline could've been asked in RVS

circus' 234 lines up with a lot of what i'm thinking. request votecount. does that post discourage any of his wagoners to hop off as well?

deadline is in a week. substantial frozen post plz

 

[#HBC | Mac]

oh im dumb. i should have remembered incapping them clears them. thts a dumb question then. You are asking me who I value the most to have with me.

marshy then =D

 

[The Marsh King]

gheb. i'm bothered that some of the questions you're asking halfway to deadline could've been asked in RVS

circus' 234 lines up with a lot of what i'm thinking. request votecount. does that post discourage any of his wagoners to hop off as well?

deadline is in a week. substantial frozen post plz

marshy

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Gheb_01: Who are your current top 5 suspects and a brief synopsis as for why?

Why do you demand 5 suspects from me in the first place? In the event that you are a zombie you'd already know 3 other players and with 5 suspects from me you'd get a good idea whom I trust and whom not. Asking this question is like asking me to tell the infected players whom to incaptivate and whom not. Answering this question sounds like a dumb thing for me to do. You can FoS me if you consider it appropriate but I will not tell you my top 5 suspects at any point during the game.
My biggest suspicions are Ronike, Mentos and yourself.
Ronike because I find McFox' case against him a lot stronger than his defense. Don't want to go into detail here as it dominated a lot of our discussion. Just saying that I don't have more against him right now than anybody else does and I hate repeating stuff that's been said a bunch of times.
By not responding to my last post mentos seems to accept the fact that I consider the things he did anti-town. If Circus' breadcrumbed are legit then mentos did a good job at choaching him/advising him to not do it.
You because you seem to ask for trivial information but the info you get can be extremely useful for infected players - in fact the information on who trust whom can be useful for the rest of the game and give them a good idea on whom to incaptivate or not. Especially the question "if X, Y and Z are incaptivated who's you safe?" sounds a lot like you try to make information available that helps scum a lot more than the survivors.

 

[Cello_Marl]

@KevinM Online, Mayling tends to "feel" people out, by poking and prodding until she can settle on an appropriate disposition. She's timid, as a standard, of new people when the number of people involved she knows is lower than the number of people she doesn't. First impressions stick to her, and escalate over time if nothing is done to stymie or modify them, whether positive or negative. She latches onto people that she knows over those that she doesn't, but is open to persuasion, especially in volume. She ignores the "Big Picture" in favor of the topic of the moment.

My analysis of S2 is a little rougher. He views the game as more formulaic than fluid. Suspicious, unusual, and scummy are all synonymous, but he tends to inquire rather than pressure in these cases. Mafiascum wiki, but not forum, is his Mafia Bible. He tends to view "hidden agendas" and "I'll tell you later" as scummy, and wants to know exactly why and how any action takes place.

For impressions of the two, I don't know about S2. It looks like he wants to use more "acceptable" play, but is clinging to old habits. May sounds like she wants to put forth ideas, but is still in her prodding stage. Both could be either, but there's nothing suggesting one way or another.

 

[Ronike]

Stop answering Kevin's questions. Yes they can create conversations, but it gives the mafia way too much information.

FOS: Kevin for asking these questions

More content with a McFox lynch since he JUST TOLD KEVIN WHO HE WANTS TO FREAKIN INCAP TONIGHT. Scum coordinatin if I ever saw it.

Kevin, I have no reason to answer your question, as anything I answer will more helpful to the mafia than the town.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

hmm agreeing with ronike about the questions

 

[#HBC | Mac]

especially since I can't see how some of these questions would at all be helpful to finding scum

 

[mentosman8]

12. mentosman8: Pythag, Circus, Cello, and Ronike are incapped tomorrow, which one do you vote to bring back and whats your reasonings for bringing them back.

Hm, a rather difficult question. It would be down to Circus and Ronike immediately, as they have far and away been more productive than the others listed. Between the two, I would likely go with Ronike(not knowing what occurs D2 to affect my decision), merely because he is so much more brash than Circus and I feel that aggressiveness would be very useful if we have any newer scum who aren't prepared to deal with it.

 

[Xiivi]

18. Xiivi: What do you think town should REALLY be looking for in this game. A game devoid of flavor and roles, do you think breadcrumbs are the focus or is there something else you think should be concentrated on instead?

I'm treating it the same way as AniMafia, except not being a vocal idiot about it like I was with SuSa. Question things as they go along, and make a big push when I feel I've got a good lead. Focus on things I see as possible connections based on voting patterns and point them out when I feel it's worth the push. I don't really see the point in actively calling out breadcrumbs until you have reason to believe it's a breadcrumb and not you just seeing what you want to see.

 

[Xiivi]

ninja'd by Ronike/Macman

I don't think the question directed at me was problematic though.

 

[KevinM]

Thats funny Macman because in a certain ongoing BRoom game you actually were quite vocal about players being scummy for NOT answering my questions just because I wasn't town.

 

[Ronike]

...did you just ask a bunch of scummy questions to catch Macman in another game?

 

[KevinM]

@ Marshy, my questions could have been asked in RVS they could have been asked in LYLO, who cares they're asked now.

You didn't answer the full question nor did you even try.

God this is annoying.

 

[KevinM]

...did you just ask a bunch of scummy questions to catch Macman in another game?

No the questions are meant to further discussion and to take from them what you will.

You just telling everyone not to answer them is a rather large red flag. Considering once again discussion is the ONLY way town can win this.

Who the **** cares if scum learns something from the answers. So does all of town, and by having all of the same information and MORE people, town is at an advantage.

We win this by discussion and thinking of what an infected player would want to do.

Please answer the question directed towards you.

 

[KevinM]

oh im dumb. i should have remembered incapping them clears them. thts a dumb question then. You are asking me who I value the most to have with me.

marshy then =D

Can you complete the question and tell me why you would keep marshy around?

 

[Ronike]

I care. This is just giving Mafia a chance to either coordinate who to incap or the opportunity to frame people and I refuse to answer the question you are directing at me.

 

[KevinM]

Hm, a rather difficult question. It would be down to Circus and Ronike immediately, as they have far and away been more productive than the others listed. Between the two, I would likely go with Ronike(not knowing what occurs D2 to affect my decision), merely because he is so much more brash than Circus and I feel that aggressiveness would be very useful if we have any newer scum who aren't prepared to deal with it.

And if we have more experienced Scum all that happens is Ronike will clash with them over and over again? Is that what you're banking on.

Is this just coming from the game, or from past experience as well?

 

[#HBC | Mac]

Thats funny Macman because in a certain ongoing BRoom game you actually were quite vocal about players being scummy for NOT answering my questions just because I wasn't town.

dunno why yud reference ongoing games.

and because of this set up, questions like that can easily be a means of breadcrumbing potential targets. Also don't see how knowing who someone would incap or who they would vote to save furthers discussion.

 

[KevinM]

You can ask questions off of those questions, you can look for similarities the next day off of who answered what. You can try and press for more information.

I like how you completely brush off the contradiction with its an ongoing game and then a really really WEAK argument as to why its not the same when it clearly is.

 

[KevinM]

You also never elaborated as to why you would save marshy.

 

[KevinM]

I'll be back after dinner btw.

 

[McFox]

More content with a McFox lynch since he JUST TOLD KEVIN WHO HE WANTS TO FREAKIN INCAP TONIGHT. Scum coordinatin if I ever saw it.

Oh s***! You caught me!

*facepalm*

Still waiting for a full response to my latest post to you. I'm especially looking forward to your justification for actively lying about my intents in this game, in regards to ending the day.

Anyway Kev, I'm glad we're thinking alike. I see what you're saying with Marsh, and especially since Marshy and kk are both playing on the account, there's a lot of potential confusion there to be used. In that case, I'd probably go with you, since frozen's rampant inactivity could easily be used against him.

 

[mentosman8]

Kevin: From my experience with Ronike, he's not too shabby at picking out experienced scum either. Another reason I forgot to mention is that I have very limited experience with Circus, having only a couple game-days played with him throughout all my games, whereas I have played with Ronike in several, and have seen him have some good success.

 

[Chaco]

3. Chaco: Do you think town can benefit from a quick lynch and looking for up to four clears today, what do you think the likelihood of us nailing infected D1 is.

Nailing infected D1 is a far shot. As this is essentially a vanilla game. I believe I once heard Adel, a really good mafia strategist, say that the correct number of vanilla townies to 2 goons would be 44. I think that's a far shot, but I do not expect a ton of infected in this game. Day one percentage of nailing infected would be less than 15% taking some probably. I expect Tom to have around 4 currently. Anymore would be unbalanced, imho.

Town most definitely can benefit from a quick lynch, believe it or not. I'd much rather a policy lynch though while we can spare one. A lurker more so. You have a much higher chance of hitting scum through a lurker when doing a quick lynch. I'd support it.

 

[KevinM]

Who would you look to lynch then right now if you and only you had the say in it then?

 

[KevinM]

I care. This is just giving Mafia a chance to either coordinate who to incap or the opportunity to frame people and I refuse to answer the question you are directing at me.

Then thank-you for being useless.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

You can ask questions off of those questions, you can look for similarities the next day off of who answered what. You can try and press for more information.

I like how you completely brush off the contradiction with its an ongoing game and then a really really WEAK argument as to why its not the same when it clearly is.

because I didn't say anything about it being a different set up and an easy way for mafia to breadcrumb who they want to incap...

i'd save marshy cuz i think he's good. What info did you gain from this answer?

 

[Chaco]

Who would you look to lynch then right now if you and only you had the say in it then?

A lurker or Marsh King.

Preferably lurker.

 

[Ronike]

Fine Kevin, I thought of a really general way to word it that won't give away information:

I'd incap whoever I thought my partners wouldn't incap in an effort to incap as many people as possible.

Happy now?