Kirby Question and Answer/Helpful Thread directory! <(^_^)>

[A1lion835]

then how is my freind CG me he does f throw up air then does it like two or more times so i.m gonna try it out i was watchin some of chus vids and saw him do it also. So it's sorta like one but not realy meh i'll just guess three then uhh i do stuff LOLOL imah kirby scrub.

Ah, that's SDIable. If you hit the control and/or cstick up and away from kirby, you go to far away to be hit again. Only fthrow->uair is guaranteed, no matter who the char is, but most people don't know that.

 

[choknater]

Is fthrow uair guaranteed on puff or other light characters?

I like fthrow uair - upwards ftilt near the ledge, hahaha.

 

[A1lion835]

Is fthrow uair guaranteed on puff or other light characters?

Yes, but some characters have ways to avoid it; it just doesn't work on sheik; snake can pull a grenade; mario can jump or up b; marth can up b; and mk can nair.

 

[choknater]

Why doesn't it work on Sheik o.o that's weird

 

[A1lion835]

Why doesn't it work on Sheik o.o that's weird

She has a really weird hurtbox. You have to wait a split second to be able to drift in range, but by then she can hit you or jump away.

 

[fromundaman]

Port Town is dumb. Those cars aren't that easy to avoid and if you're trapped, you get to choose between a broken shield and death.

I disagree. They always show up in the same places at the same time (depending on the lap, of course), and the safe zones are pretty big.

That being said, while it is legal in the Midwest, I still think it should be a banned stage if only because of how easy it is for characters to **** with those cars (D3 Dthrow into car for the kill, MK Dthrow into cars for the kill, Mario Cape **** or cape/FLUDD into cars for the kill, Mario FIHL to keep them where the cars spawn, starshot them into the cars, etc.), and the floor does a ****-ton of damage. Still, it's a good Kirby stage.



A1, Fthrow to Uair isn't guaranteed on every character... Characters with sex kick can't be hit with it for example.

 

[A1lion835]

A1, Fthrow to Uair isn't guaranteed on every character... Characters with sex kick can't be hit with it for example.

Gah, you're right, I usually mention that, but I forgot.

 

[~Gonzo~]

its all about Dthrow nowadays anyway, he Fthrows anymore

 

[Lovely]

I can't do Down Throws for some reason, I always do Up Throw or Back Throw with Kirby.

 

[choknater]

She has a really weird hurtbox. You have to wait a split second to be able to drift in range, but by then she can hit you or jump away.

With this knowledge alone I have regained my confidence to use Sheik against Kirby. I was always so scared of the low % fthrow lol.

 

[fromundaman]

Go ahead... I'd much rather face Shiek than Zelda...

Though Shiek can also Nair out of Fthrow combos.

 

[Lovely]

One thing I don't under stand is how can Shiek can able to get grab combo easier than Zelda? Aren't they the same weight or something? And why does Mario's Down B get rid of your power? XD

 

[~Gonzo~]

shiek is harder to throw combo b/c of her weight. its best to Nair her or Bair her into a grab combo, that way she can't escape

 

[Lord Viper]

☆ I used to think the match up with Zelda is 40-60 Zelda, but now I'm confused. Now I think the match up is 55-45 Kirby now after viewing some of the advantages that Zelda has over Kirby. ☆

 

[Morningstar]

I can't do Down Throws for some reason, I always do Up Throw or Back Throw with Kirby.

...Press down on the joystick... >_>

 

[Falconv1.0]

☆ I used to think the match up with Zelda is 40-60 Zelda, but now I'm confused. Now I think the match up is 55-45 Kirby now after viewing some of the advantages that Zelda has over Kirby. ☆

Wait, so you looked at her ADVANTAGES, and decided it's in our favor now?


Oh please do explain.

 

[Lord Viper]

...Press down on the joystick... >_>

☆ You just killed her sarcasm. XD ☆

Wait, so you looked at her ADVANTAGES, and decided it's in our favor now?


Oh please do explain.

☆ I mostly looked at her air game, at first I thought it was strong, but it turns out that she can't gimp very well, and can't stay in the air for very long. I know her ground game is very good and her F-Smash has a large hit box and hard to counter when you shield it, but you can also roll then attack her when she's done if your close enough and do an attack. And I looked at how Kirby can gimp Zelda off the stage, it's too simple to gimp her when your above her and she's off the stage, though if your on the same air space as her, then you'll most likely get Lightning Kicked, lol. I'm still thinking about it, some of the Kirby mains say that it's Kirby's favor, and when I remember, I haven't lost to a good Zelda main with Kirby yet. ☆

☆ Edited: T!Mmy did it better: ☆

And... Zelda is a 40-60 match up? In Zelda's favor? I'd be more apt to say it's in Kirby's favor, but someone could maybe talk me into going 50-50.

The reasons I say this is because Zelda really can't take advantage of her priority against Kirby. Unlike a lot of characters with disjointed hitboxes, Zelda leaves herself open quite a bit when using her U-smash, F-smash, Din's Fire, etc. This makes up for Kirby's speed and actually lets him move in with an attack of his choosing giving him opportunities to combo or go for a KO.

Also, Zelda's attacks are countered fairly easily by proper distancing and/or DI. You can actually Smash DI her multi-hit smashes to avoid the last, strong hitbox and survive. Din's Fire can just be Air Dodged if at a distance from Zelda, or you can N-air through it and hit her with the N-air (or just Fast Fall into whatever you want) if she uses it too close. Not to mention the Zelda Hat makes you practically immune to Din's Fire, and can be used offensively against her Side Steps and as a mix-up against her approaches (invincibility frames FTW).

Once off-stage, she's at a huge disadvantage. If you're close enough, you can hit her before/during her Farore's Wind with a B-air (maybe a Giant Swing or F-air). If she's out too far for you to Air Guard, just time your Edgehog so that she can't grab the ledge or hit you off of it upon her return and she loses a stock. She's then forced to reappear on the stage, at which point you can usually get a F-smash, U-smash, Hammer, Giant Swing, F-air, N-air, or B-air on her depending on how well you read her recovery.

It's easy to catch her with D-tilt, U-tilt, Jab, and B-air because her attacks are not fast enough to compete with them, and her fast attacks are not scary. I mean, her Jab, Nayru's Love, D-tilt, and D-smash are nothing compared to Snake's tilts or Meta Knight's anything. The worst that can happen is you get hit by a quick D-tilt multiple times, or get KO'd at 150% by a D-smash. I admit getting combo'd from D-tilt into U-tilt/U-smash is effective and scary, but you can also DI the D-tilt making the follow-up fail.

All Kirby has to do is stay out of range of Zelda's D-tilt/U-smash/F-air/B-air and watch for openings. She will have to leave herself vulnerable at some point, and even if she doesn't Kirby can still do a decent job approaching with dashing Perfect Shield, a Dodge, or with a B-air/Grab.

I'd give this a 55-45, Kirby's favor until I see otherwise.

 

[choknater]

Go ahead... I'd much rather face Shiek than Zelda...

Not my sheik

 

[fromundaman]

Not my sheik

I meant as a character, not the player obviously. If I could face myself somehow, I'd much rather play against my Zelda than my Shiek as well.

Shiek just has less on Kirby, and she has trouble killing. She's about as easy, if not easier to gimp as well. Also, she can be gayed.

 

[choknater]

Hm I'd say Kirby is a matchup where the Sheik or Zelda player would be better off going Sheik/Zelda.

 

[Vorguen]

So what does Snake have on Kirby that makes it such a bad matchup for Kirby? Because even though it's supposed to be in Snake's favor I seem to have a lot of trouble with Kirby, especially with his early % grab combos.

Also it's ridiculously easy to hammer Snake off the cypher, which is a really good gimp.


It feels more like a 50:50 fight to me.

 

[:mad:]

So what does Snake have on Kirby that makes it such a bad matchup for Kirby? Because even though it's supposed to be in Snake's favor I seem to have a lot of trouble with Kirby, especially with his early % grab combos.

Also it's ridiculously easy to hammer Snake off the cypher, which is a really good gimp.


It feels more like a 50:50 fight to me.

His tilts alone make it even. And besides that, Snake's just a better character. He has better OoS options, even more reliable kill moves. I'm guessing you just don't have enough Kirby experience, Vorgy.

 

[~Gonzo~]

That match-up is in Kirby's favor IMO, if ur gonna get tilted shield and keep holding shield and roll away better get tackled than Ftilt'd imo also Kirby's aerial game gimps the F out of Snake, not to mention inhale ***** his recovery also cuz it can pull snake away from his C4 when he's tryin to blow himself back on to the stage.

 

[Falconv1.0]

I second the opinion that Kirby could be even or even advantaged vs Snake. His superior aerial game and ability to gimp the **** out of snake is a huge boost for him. Kirby can basically camp Snake if he gets a stock advantage, and I'd think getting those grab combos is a lot easier when he's approaching you. And those grab combos will get him in the air, let us get a hit or two, and possibly get him off stage where we get to **** his arse.

The issue is Snake's defensive game, which is pretty **** good. Once we are at high percents he's scary to be near, and our range wont be helping us much there. Going in for a bair might be worth it before like 80%, but after that it's just not gonna happen. I myself take less issue with the tilts and more with the nades. Once your in his face just figure something out. I dont know if this is dumb luck, but I've seen Asdioh note this as well. Rolling behind them seems to actually work, maybe my opponent was just being dumb but if it's a viable strategy, then let's get in on that gold mine.

Go go go go Gonzo go.

 

[momochuu]

Snake does a lot of damage. ;-; Especially on his last stock for whatever reason...

I've seen people almost get 3 stocked and come back and win with Snake.

 

[Corrupted]

At which percentages will dtilt trip (at different weight groups)?

 

[thrillagorilla]

Check t!MmY's Kirby guide, "Kirby and the Amazing Guide 2.0". It has all of the move frame data for Kirby. Its one of the Stickys, so it shouldn't be hard to find.

 

[Face124]

How long before a "Kirby's zones" thread appears?

 

[Falconv1.0]

Snake does a lot of damage. ;-; Especially on his last stock for whatever reason...

It's called the Aura boost, it's different though because it's from loss of stocks not from damage taken.

But in all seriousness, I think that has way more to do with the player than the character. What if I found videos of a Kirby making a comeback? Suddenly do we all change opinion on the match up?

 

[Asdioh]

So what does Snake have on Kirby that makes it such a bad matchup for Kirby? Because even though it's supposed to be in Snake's favor I seem to have a lot of trouble with Kirby, especially with his early % grab combos.

Also it's ridiculously easy to hammer Snake off the cypher, which is a really good gimp.


It feels more like a 50:50 fight to me.

Pull a grenade when Kirby does grab combos. It will damage both of you, but it is worth it for Snake. It basically makes you both come out even, since obviously Snake's extreme heaviness and Kirby's extreme lightness balance each other out. Plus the fact that Snake has an easier time KOing...

I find it difficult to hammer Snakes off the cypher, for the simple reason that good Snakes DI upwards when hit offstage, and then double jump, and then cypher WAY above the stage.

How long before a "Kirby's zones" thread appears?

*shrug*

I'm thinking about doing it, but then, I don't really care to, and other characters can come look at our thread and be like "nau I can beat Kirby mwahahah!"

But in all seriousness, I think that has way more to do with the player than the character. What if I found videos of a Kirby making a comeback? Suddenly do we all change opinion on the match up?

Either character can make comebacks.

I don't know about "making comebacks" but imo I've seen (and experienced) the Kirby definitely outplaying the Snake and losing anyway. The simple fact is that good Snakes are hard to gimp, and they live much longer than Kirby, and deal damage faster. This is why I think it's not an even matchup, even though Kirby can combo the crap out of Snake if he's good. It just isn't as effective as when Snake a few tilts and grenades/explosives/throws.

 

[Falconv1.0]

Asdioh I have trouble taking some things you say seriously when you say we have trouble gimping Snake. And you are seriously downplaying our options. If you start a combo with both of you at 0% if he were to pull out a nade and hurt both parties you'd still be in a percent lead. It's less about killing him and more about gimping him.

Watch Ally fight Chudat. I'm getting really tired of this whole "I see Kirby out play the other person and still lose" That's totally discrediting every win a Snake has ever gotten versus Kirby, wow that's fair.

Snake isn't some all powerful beast, his heaviness and I'd argue pretty predictable recovery are in OUR favor. We combo him, that gets him in the air, and we win in the air. And if he's off stage, we get to win some more. Either way my side wins because it has Gonzo on it.

 

[Asdioh]

We'll see how Gonzo and other Kirbys fare against the likes of Ally and other good Snakes this weekend

In the meantime, here's an example of Snake outplaying Kirby and then getting *****

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbwx7-4bDdw

 

[Falconv1.0]

We'll see how Gonzo and other Kirbys fare against the likes of Ally and other good Snakes this weekend

In the meantime, here's an example of Snake outplaying Kirby and then getting *****

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbwx7-4bDdw

Thus proving we can win/maybe have an advantage? I'm leaning more towards neutral than advantaged like Gonzo, but I definitely dont think it's 6/4 Snake's favor.

Hey, the more good top tier matches we have the more players we get.

 

[Triple R]

I'm going to have to agree with Asdioh. I mean I've gimped snakes before, but if the snake knows you'll try to gimp them, which they have no reason not too, they will always try to recover high, making gimps extremely hard to get. I'd have to say snake is easier to kill with fsmash at high percents then trying to rely on gimps.

As far has fthrow -> uair and nades, I don't see how it's a fair trade considering our weight. If you say kirby basically dies at 100% while snake dies at 150%, and you say nades do 10% (they don't, but it doesn't matter) Kirby is then about 10% closer to his death while snake is only about 6.67% closer to his death..... In the end snake gains from this trade even if he takes damage, and it's far less damage anyways compared to if he doesn't stop the chain.

Snake also has the ability to control the stage with C4, nades, and such. Sure we can air camp and approach that way, but he still severely limits our options.

I'd 60 snake : 40 kirby. I don't even know what the current rating is....

 

[Falconv1.0]

As far has fthrow -> uair and nades, I don't see how it's a fair trade considering our weight. If you say kirby basically dies at 100% while snake dies at 150%, and you say nades do 10% (they don't, but it doesn't matter) Kirby is then about 10% closer to his death while snake is only about 6.67% closer to his death..... In the end snake gains from this trade even if he takes damage, and it's far less damage anyways compared to if he doesn't stop the chain.

Snake will be taking damage from the combo and the nade, we just take a nade. Isn't that better for Kirby? Poor math is poor.


And lol, no, guys, seriously, Snake is pretty easy to gimp.

 

[fromundaman]

Asdioh I have trouble taking some things you say seriously when you say we have trouble gimping Snake. And you are seriously downplaying our options. If you start a combo with both of you at 0% if he were to pull out a nade and hurt both parties you'd still be in a percent lead. It's less about killing him and more about gimping him.

Watch Ally fight Chudat. I'm getting really tired of this whole "I see Kirby out play the other person and still lose" That's totally discrediting every win a Snake has ever gotten versus Kirby, wow that's fair.

Snake isn't some all powerful beast, his heaviness and I'd argue pretty predictable recovery are in OUR favor. We combo him, that gets him in the air, and we win in the air. And if he's off stage, we get to win some more. Either way my side wins because it has Gonzo on it.

Falcon, chill...

I agree this isn't a hopeless matchup, and a lot of your points are true, but so are Asdioh's. Gimping a good Snake *CAN* be tough. Personally, I don't have too much trouble with it since inhale generally ***** Snake's recovery and no one expects it, but Snake does have more options than one would think, and generally speaking, when they do pull them out, you won't be expecting them.

Snake's weight is both an advantage and a disandvantage to him. He can get comboed much easier, as you said, but lives longer, generally speaking. Also, while both of us have good kill moves, his are generally safer than ours. That doesn't mean we can't land ours, but ours leave us open to punishment more than his (except his Fsmash.).

Also, about pulling out grenades to stop combos, yeah, we are in a percent lead, but that doesn't mean much against Snake. If you want to flat out kill him, then he's got the advantage, since he'll still kill you earlier. If you want to gimp him, then it makes little difference. The only way I can see that having an impact is if you want to aircamp.

Providing you do aircamp, I see triple R suggesting we approach with it. Don't. Just evade projectiles and wait for Snake to make a mistake. That's how the Wario's play it, and while we don't have their airspeed, we can effectively aircamp. If they don't make mistakes and/or get bored of missing with projectiles and approach, then let the timer run out.

Snake will be taking damage from the combo and the nade, we just take a nade. Isn't that better for Kirby? Poor math is poor.

It depends. If he catches you by surprise and you trade a Uair for a grenade, then no, it's not at all. If you predict the grenade and hit it with say, an aerial hammer, then yeah, it's definitely worth it.

We'll see how Gonzo and other Kirbys fare against the likes of Ally and other good Snakes this weekend

With all the other good players there, I kind of doubt any of us will even get to face Ally in the actual tourny, though maybe I'm underestimating you and Y.b.M. (And Gonzo? Is he going?).
Meh, I dunno about you guys, but I'm pretty sure he'll **** my **** up anyway in MMs, not because of his character (though I dislike him very much for wanting to play Marth...), but because I have no doubt he is a much better player than I.


EDIT:

Asdioh, while that Kirby wasn't very good, and it was obvious that Afro wasn't playing his best, that Kirby had the right idea for facing Snakes: Play it patiently, really gay, and make him approach you.

 

[A1lion835]

Gimping a snake, except with inhale, will be tricky. Also, what happens if he has a 'nade in his hand when we inhale him? Explosives are supposed to give us damage, stun and no knockback, but what if someone's holding it...?

Our goal in this matchup should be to get him in the air, because all of our aerials are faster than all of his, and he can't mortar slide in the air (dur). That being said, throws are good. Very good. If he pulls out a 'nade when you fthrow him, land and uthrow for 18% on him and nothing on you. This'll eventually get to a guessing game of who'll do what. For utilt, while you may know this, the knockback sends you slightly behind him, so the best place to DI is down and behind him. Kirby just can't deal with the disjoints though. Gimping is good if he doesn't recover high, but what are the chances of that vs a good snake? Air hammer is a good choice while he's on the way down, just make sure to get rid of the phantom lag before he respawns. I'd say this is 60:40 snake's favor over all, because his weight is hard to deal with. It's also really boring to get around his camping X_X.

 

[SheerMadness]

Wow Falcon good job at being a condescending *****. Since when are you the top authority on Kirby vs Snake? What decent snakes have you beaten in tourney recently? I've never seen a decent tourney placing from you either. What the hell have you done that makes you more knowledgeable than the rest of us.

Good Snakes ARE hard to gimp. If the Snake knows ANYTHING about the matchup they're going to recover as high as possible.

Any why would you ever wanna take damage vs Snake when you don't have to?

You're welcome to think the matchup is even if you want but don't be a condescending ***** about it.

And I'm the one who gets flamed on here? Atleast when I post my matchup opinions I don't try to bash anyone elses opinions.

 

[Vorguen]

Rofl apparently I started a Kirby vs Snake flamewar.

 

[Falconv1.0]

I'd argue that if Snake isn't given a whole lot of room to move we can Wop him before he can even try to recover high.

Sheer Madness there are so many different reasons why I'm not going to keep up some discussion with you. I said I have trouble taking an opinion seriously, whoop de ****? That has nothing to do with my tourney record which I have openly stated is balls. If anyone is flaming anyone it's you. >_>