CaliburChamp
Smash Master
Kirby's U-air has alot of hidden range. You can approach with it safely or you can do a reverse aerial rush and up-air. At first it doesn't look like it has much range, but it does.
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Kirby MetaGame discussion
- Thread starter psykoplympton
- Start date
Lord Viper
SS Rank
☆ Very true, Kirby's U-Air should be ranked on of his top five best moves to use. Let's talk about the usage of U-tilt, it's too useful. ☆
Gnes
Smash Master
Haha i thought i was the only one to do this...
If u bait airdodges with a bair u can then punish with a u-air. It works extremely well against snake/D3/chrs. with long airdodges.
Also ive been using dair alot more...its shieldpressure is excellent...and the way it ends allows for jab setups.
fromundaman
Henshin a go-go Baby!
Yeah, I don't think diddy or Marth work (though since I hadn't tested them with human players, they landed in an 'unsure column').
I definitely have to try doing it with the fliphop.
Also, them mashing buttons in the air DOES affect how fast they break out. (For that reason, you have to watch out for people who don't button mash. I always assume everyone will break out and occasionally end up getting unwanted suicides.)
Uair is amazing, though I rarely use the tail end. As good as it is, it always feels like Bair or hammer is better (Bair for an immediate hit, Hammer if you wanted a delay like you would have with an RAR Uair.). It's a great move though for sharking, juggling, general comboing, and even to a certain extent approaching.
I use all of Kirby's aerials :]
Actually, I use all of Kirby's moves. o_O
I didn't really know about Kirby's Upair having weird hitboxes, but I'll give it a try.
I've been using Fair a ton like I've said before, because it can punish dodges and it combos into itself well, and it keeps Bair fresh while adding nice damage and putting the opponent in a bad position.
Dair is also great. It's pretty hard to punish unless they shield the whole thing (which doesn't happen too often since it shieldpokes a lot, or they forget about the last hit) and you don't pull away.
I don't know if I said this somewhere else, but I tested out the "phantom lag" this weekend. As you should know by now, hammer (aerial and grounded) and stone both give you lag the next time you jump and land. If you do an aerial into the ground, the lag is reduced, so yeah, do an aerial into the ground after using hammer or stone. And yes doing an aerial makes the lag disappear.
This glitch still peeves me >=(
Actually, I use all of Kirby's moves. o_O
I didn't really know about Kirby's Upair having weird hitboxes, but I'll give it a try.
I've been using Fair a ton like I've said before, because it can punish dodges and it combos into itself well, and it keeps Bair fresh while adding nice damage and putting the opponent in a bad position.
Dair is also great. It's pretty hard to punish unless they shield the whole thing (which doesn't happen too often since it shieldpokes a lot, or they forget about the last hit) and you don't pull away.
I don't know if I said this somewhere else, but I tested out the "phantom lag" this weekend. As you should know by now, hammer (aerial and grounded) and stone both give you lag the next time you jump and land. If you do an aerial into the ground, the lag is reduced, so yeah, do an aerial into the ground after using hammer or stone. And yes doing an aerial makes the lag disappear.
This glitch still peeves me >=(
When it comes to the level 9 computers, they break out quickly when I Inhale from the ground, and they simply don't break out until they would "naturally" when I Inhale them from offstage.
fromundaman
Henshin a go-go Baby!
True, but CPUs are ********... It's true that you do break out faster when grounded for some reason, but struggling in the air will make you break out faster.
As for Phantom lag... meh, now that I know about it, I just do a lot more empty Nairs. In factm you can even occasionally mindgame with them (quick Nair>dtilt as they approach, Nair just out of range to Dtilt/Ftilt/Utilt, etc.).
As for Phantom lag... meh, now that I know about it, I just do a lot more empty Nairs. In factm you can even occasionally mindgame with them (quick Nair>dtilt as they approach, Nair just out of range to Dtilt/Ftilt/Utilt, etc.).
CaliburChamp
Smash Master
I never noticed this "phantom lag" is there any videos of it?
fromundaman
Henshin a go-go Baby!
I dunno, but you could just try it yourself. Do a hammer, grounded or not, then just jump. See how you get landing lag? That's what we're talking about.
psykoplympton
Smash Ace
kirbys uptilt is awesome because it is very fast and i believe(correct me if im wrong) has alot of priority.
up air is great to spam. i mean it. reverse up airs, underneath rob you can get crazy up airs since he doesnt have much to do when your underneath him.
up air is great to spam. i mean it. reverse up airs, underneath rob you can get crazy up airs since he doesnt have much to do when your underneath him.
aqua421
Smash Apprentice
i was just messing around and found out that Kirby's Dair can combo into Bair, Utilt, and Dtilt on characters like metaknight and falco when used on stage and spaced right (In training it was saying they were consecutive hits.). I knew it could combo into Ftilt and the occasional Fsmash for a while but not the moves listed above, especially Bair.
SuSa
Banned via Administration
The Kirby boards are the only boards I've seen to use words I don't know or haven't heard of elsewhere. (Phantom Lag, Sharking)
I must really be using my Kirby in a different way then most of you as well. I use fair soley for punishing spotdodgers, and I abuse the shield-poking properties of dair and how it can lead to fsmash (often times), and many other things. Now I'm interested in how you Kirby mains actually play your character.
(I have an opinion that almost all Olimar mains are facing Peach the wrong way. Many say it's a tough matchup, yet I've never had problems with it... so depending how the "regulars" play that could be your issues to some matchups - which if I can help will further your metagame... \excuse)
Tomorrow would anyone like to do some matches? (Preferably not ditto's if you have a secondary - use that.... you can go vs my Snake with your Kirby then we can switch off)
I must really be using my Kirby in a different way then most of you as well. I use fair soley for punishing spotdodgers, and I abuse the shield-poking properties of dair and how it can lead to fsmash (often times), and many other things. Now I'm interested in how you Kirby mains actually play your character.
(I have an opinion that almost all Olimar mains are facing Peach the wrong way. Many say it's a tough matchup, yet I've never had problems with it... so depending how the "regulars" play that could be your issues to some matchups - which if I can help will further your metagame... \excuse)
Tomorrow would anyone like to do some matches? (Preferably not ditto's if you have a secondary - use that.... you can go vs my Snake with your Kirby then we can switch off)
A1lion835
Smash Champion
Phantom Lag=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfpJj4Ln1Uc&NR=1
Sharking-Attacking someone from below the platform they're standing on.
*ignores rest of post b/c he'd be embarrassed at how bad he is if we played*
fromundaman
Henshin a go-go Baby!
Haha, yeah, since we can't think of ways to advance our metagame, we spend our time making up words instead
I can try to play you tomorrow or today if you'd like, though not completely sure about my availability, and Wifi sucks... (Only got internet a few days ago, so I'm going to john that I'm not used to lag, and thus can't combo like I should. Meh, oh well... I'm still willing to do some games! I need all the practice I can get.) Just contact me via AIM if/when you want a match.
RoflWafflez
Smash Apprentice
I'm usually available most of the time, and I need some Snake practice anyway...
SuSa
Banned via Administration
Turns out my friend has a Plasma.
The input lag on Plasma is 10x worse then WiFi :/ because ONLY I feel it.... not both of us -_-
So Tuesday it is? Possibly Monday?
The input lag on Plasma is 10x worse then WiFi :/ because ONLY I feel it.... not both of us -_-
So Tuesday it is? Possibly Monday?
RoflWafflez
Smash Apprentice
Prolly not Monday, i gotz a big Memorial Day party to go to...most likely Tuesday...get in touch w/ me on AIM, thats where i usually am.
I seriously have nothing better to do, so, I guess I'll play you. I won't be able to shield/dodge everything on reactions, so it'll be TOUGH @@@@ for me. I can get by that, though.
I'll add your Brawl FC, add mine whenever you want to. I'll use my snake when you use your kirby, etc.
fromundaman
Henshin a go-go Baby!
Haha, my friend has that too. I know your pain. Put that friend on a normal TV though, and he'll have a tough time.
CaliburChamp
Smash Master
Question...
Is there any way for Kirby to get a grab set up? TL and Link has Z-air to grab, Pika has F-air to grab. Perhaps the first hit of F-air to grab, preferably hitting behind a shield, preventing you from getting shield grabbed. Anyone wanna try testing this out? I'm not able to do it now.
This could end up helping Kirby alot, since Kirby relies on grabs so much.
Is there any way for Kirby to get a grab set up? TL and Link has Z-air to grab, Pika has F-air to grab. Perhaps the first hit of F-air to grab, preferably hitting behind a shield, preventing you from getting shield grabbed. Anyone wanna try testing this out? I'm not able to do it now.
This could end up helping Kirby alot, since Kirby relies on grabs so much.
LuVr
Smash Apprentice
I wish MK was as easy to beat in Brawl as he is in kirby's dreamland.. lol
Lord Viper
SS Rank
☆ Meta Knight in Kirby Dreamland?!? Since when? =3 ☆
☆ lol, I get what you mean, though he was never in any Dreamland titles. Also, this is about the Kirby meta game discussion so Kirby meta game talk only on this thread. =D ☆
Since the others IGNORED you, I'll answer.
Dair->dashgrab works almost all the time, since people barely have time to put up a shield before you get to them. I personally have a problem doing it right, because I usually buffer the dash too soon and end up doing a standing grab that's nowhere near them T_T
Dtilt->dashgrab
First or second hit of Fair->grab (it knocks them slightly up in the air and they can't do anything)
Jab->grab...I don't think this actually works, since the jab doesn't seem to have much hitstun, but people tend to shield after getting jabbed and this works like 80-90% of the time for me.
I can't think of anything else right now, besides doing stuff like dthrow->chase their landing and regrab repeatedly (only works on some characters, like Snake. Harder to do on, say, MK)
It no longer works for me, my opponents got smarter, they now get hit with the jab then automatically grab me... So now I have to either do the full jab combo, or predict when they'll try and shieldgrab my jab combos.
Heh, I land that all the time against random people who I mostly never play with! They think they can attack me out of a dthrow, and I just powershield>regrab>dthrow yet again! First time I did something like this i was using ZSS, and it was with her utilt against a Marth... Best used at low %s, and against fastfalling characters (like Fox) dthrow regrabs are 100% assured when they're at 0% till who knows when (i usually dthrow twice then utilt away, then bair).
There are lots of setups for grabs, some involving mindgames, others not. At low %s, your opponents tend to be combo'd into grabs nearly every time. dair/falling bair/ff fair/dtilt/nair/jab/grab > grab/regrab all work wonders, i assure you!
fromundaman
Henshin a go-go Baby!
Heh, I find MK one of the easier ones to do Dthrow chases to TBH unless he tries to DC (It's one use!?).
Also, there's also FF Fair to grab on tall characters.
As for the Jab>Grab, if your opponent wised up to it, switch to jab>Dtilt. Crouch dodges a lot of grabs after all.
CaliburChamp
Smash Master
Wow, good stuff! I knew about some of these but apparently I forgot the other grab set ups. Sometimes I feel like you have to be extremely robotic to play brawl. Like, always go for a grab set up or grab when your opponent is at 0% since it racks up the most damage the fastest. You have to have a strategy throughout the entire match, and if you freestyle and just do anything, you'll get sloppy and inconsistent. It's especially most important to be robotic when your opponent is at low %, when your opponent is at high % he gets knocked away too far for you to do anything really.
fromundaman
Henshin a go-go Baby!
Calibur, I REALLY disagree with your having to be robotic statement.
Kirby is a character for whom practically nothing (Actually I think there might literally be nothing) is guaranteed, and for whom improvisation (while keeping what you know in mind) is especially important.
Kirby is a character for whom practically nothing (Actually I think there might literally be nothing) is guaranteed, and for whom improvisation (while keeping what you know in mind) is especially important.
CaliburChamp
Smash Master
For example, Falco. When your up against a Falco and your at 0% expect a chaingrab to happen once he grabs you. Most good Falco's will do this so they can get the chain grab to D-air spike. Against a n00b Falco, the Falco would just freestyle and not worry about grabbing the oppoonent at 0%. Same applies to all characters not only Falco. Thats what I mean when I say robotic.
Well, going into a match with the spirit of improvisation with kirby is not as bad as it sounds.
When Falcos try and grab you at 0%, being cautious about this can seriously help you against that, making them give you more openings than actually getting the grab off. Improvising is a good way of ading into your arsenal a new stock of mindgames. Why do a pivot grab or SHDL when you could dair from above>techchase into a grab, or something of the sort?
I hope you understand what I mean, I'm not meaning things like "fsmash at 0%", more like do things your opponent wouldn't expect at the most unexpected times (replacing bairs with fsmashes is NOT being smart or 'imrovisational').
When I was talking about following Dthrows with regrabs, I was generally talking about at higher percents. I mean, take Snake or Ike for example, since both of these characters fall victim to it quite easily. You dthrow, they jump away afterwards, and then they have no choice but to Up B or land on the stage (if they're too far from the ledge)
All you have to do is run up to them and shield. If they do an aerial, their aerials are all pretty laggy and you can block it and shieldgrab. If they airdodge into the ground, you can still grab them when they land. Characters with slow aerial movespeed and aerials that lag upon hitting the ground can't really do much to dthrow chains.
And Dtilt is so good against Snake.
...Snake's hitboxes are so broken. /whine
All you have to do is run up to them and shield. If they do an aerial, their aerials are all pretty laggy and you can block it and shieldgrab. If they airdodge into the ground, you can still grab them when they land. Characters with slow aerial movespeed and aerials that lag upon hitting the ground can't really do much to dthrow chains.
Oh yeah, Jab->Dtilt rocks. I do it all the time, specifically offline. It's amazing how much my playstyle can change offline @_@
And Dtilt is so good against Snake.
...Snake's hitboxes are so broken. /whine
Just to point out, the Snake I play with does grenade wavebouncing, so he jumps to one side, and if he sees I'm drawing a landing mark, he wavebounces, completely changing his momentum. If not, he lands safely or does something else.
After a couple of games, it starts getting easy to predict, though. Still, you can't really say it's easy chaining dthrows this way if the opponent can wavebounce as easily as snake (or anyone with a fast special move), including Ike (he can wavebounce his sideB and escape you, unless he's returning from offstage, then he'll jst aim for the ledges).
After a couple of games, it starts getting easy to predict, though. Still, you can't really say it's easy chaining dthrows this way if the opponent can wavebounce as easily as snake (or anyone with a fast special move), including Ike (he can wavebounce his sideB and escape you, unless he's returning from offstage, then he'll jst aim for the ledges).
fromundaman
Henshin a go-go Baby!
Ironically, while we are all talking about the same thing, I still find MK one of the easier to chase and regrab after a Dthrow. After all, they all jump, then they can either do a rising Dair or descending Dair (both of which you shield), jump again, or just land into a Dsmash. Once they do this enough (with two of the options leading into a regrab), they're out of jumps, severely limiting their options. Sure, they can also tornado, but you can pivot grab that, Fsmash it, inhale it, or even Usmash it during the startup, sideB leaves him open, and UpB doesn't really help him land at all. In the end, only his downB can make his landing unpredictable.
Yoshi's another easy one to predict his landing, but beware of his nasty Dair. That thing'll rip shields to shreds.
Generally speaking though, Dair chases usually work on most everyone and are awesome.
Yoshi's another easy one to predict his landing, but beware of his nasty Dair. That thing'll rip shields to shreds.
Generally speaking though, Dair chases usually work on most everyone and are awesome.
Kirby has many setups for grab.
D-air -> Grab
F-air x1 or x2 -> Grab
U-air -> Grab (low percents)
B-air -> Turn around & Grab (low percents)
N-air -> Grab
D-tilt (Trip) -> Grab
U-tilt -> Grab (low percents)
Jab x1 or x2 -> Grab (doesn't actually work, but it's still a setup for a grab)
D-air -> Grab
F-air x1 or x2 -> Grab
U-air -> Grab (low percents)
B-air -> Turn around & Grab (low percents)
N-air -> Grab
D-tilt (Trip) -> Grab
U-tilt -> Grab (low percents)
Jab x1 or x2 -> Grab (doesn't actually work, but it's still a setup for a grab)
choknater
Smash Obsessed
my favorite setup for grab is Sheild -> Grab
levy612
Smash Rookie
Hmmm.... I'm a kirby mainer, and think that these techniques are all good. Also a great Kirby technique is to make use of Kirby's bair to guard edge. Thats a great way to keep the opponent off the stage and to rack up damage. Not tomention the move has good knockback. ^.^
Dooms
KY/KP Joey
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is Utilt > Nair a legit string? if its at low percents, I'm pretty sure it can lead to something after the Nair, such as a Grab, Tilt, or mabey something more unique(spelling)
Dooms
KY/KP Joey
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Nair is really fun to use. Hardly any lag when it hits the ground and it can be used to setup for things probably. I think all of kirby's airials are really good =D.
xXLifTXx
Smash Rookie
I found N-air to be a C-C-C-Combo Breaker! In many cases, especially when falco tries to spike you after that chaingrab, but this is only when he gets your percent a little too high. I've also found it very helpful to friends that play Captain Falcon. It's a nice setup for the knee of justice.
on a side note: Any way to get past getting back up from a ledge without Lucario doing that side B grab of his ?
on a side note: Any way to get past getting back up from a ledge without Lucario doing that side B grab of his ?
I think nair is pretty useless. The hitbox is too small, you can only use it near the ground (when about to land) so as to avoid the horrible lag, doesn't hit far, doesn't do much damage, and you have to put your control stick in a neutral position to do it, meaning you won't DI anything if they hit you.
... Well, I guess nair is great for cancelling sideB's, downB's, or ledgegrabbed upB's landing lags. but thats about it.
EDIT: Oh! To get past Lucario's sideB, bait him to do it by faking you'll land in front of him, then do whatever you feel like doing... Or, ledge cancel an upB or twu, then jump back in by ledgehopping a fair (don't jump while on the ledge, let go THEN jump!).
... Well, I guess nair is great for cancelling sideB's, downB's, or ledgegrabbed upB's landing lags. but thats about it.
EDIT: Oh! To get past Lucario's sideB, bait him to do it by faking you'll land in front of him, then do whatever you feel like doing... Or, ledge cancel an upB or twu, then jump back in by ledgehopping a fair (don't jump while on the ledge, let go THEN jump!).