Kirby General Discussion

[Pink Reaper]

I actually don't mind the Marth/Kirby match up as much anymore. It's far more winnable than I pretend it is, which is actually partially why I made the huge "How to beat marth" thread. Notice that I didn't make a "How to beat Fox" thread because I actually do consider that match up unwinnable >_>


I also REALLY enjoy the Kirby/Samus match up, and I don't know where the stigma came that it was so horribly skewed in Samus' favor.


Edit:

 

[KirbyKaze]

I don't think Samus vs Kirby is 100-0 or anything either, you can actually shield and space things on Samus and take advantage of the fact that she's actually slower than you in the air, and that WD back isn't all that when she can't grab you.

 

[Dogysamich]

Kirby v Samus isnt bad at all. I mean, you can duck a good bit of her moveset. Anything Kirby cant duck winds up being in d.tilt range (stuff like Samus' d.tilt, d.smash)

I mean, you can actually duck F.smash (all except for Down angled), but you have to DoR it.

 

[smasher32]

Anyone else here enjoy the Kirby v Jigglypuff match up?

puff on puff, bair on bair, floaty on floaty

no idea why, i just love fighting against a jiggs as kirby

 

[KirbyKaze]

I hate that I can be edgeguarded effectively, and she can't.

I also dislike any matchup where I can't d-throw tech chase or combo off u-tilt.

I do like that she doesn't combo me to death off a throw like half of the upper cast can, so that's kind of nice. And if you DI her crap, you can keep her from doing **** air combos in the middle of the stage that transition into efficient edgeguards, which is also kind of nice.

 

[Pink Reaper]

Dthrow on Jiggs is terrible. She can actually rest you out of it.

Jiggs/Kirby isn't hugely bad it's just sort of boring. You space a Bair, she spaces a Bair and you just sort of hope she dies before you. If not it's GG cus you can't exactly gimp her.

 

[KirbyKaze]

So. About that Kirby character.

*tumbleweed*

 

[Skyson]

Kirby is too good in doubles. I love using low tiers in doubles overall. It's funny to watch good players get more laid back in doubles and create a lot more openings for low tiers to abuse.

I actually started to learn Kirby/Marth a little bit, the patience game is becoming a better one, and I've stopped taking everyone to Final Destination! <_<

Kirby is moving, one step at a time. I'm taking my Kirby to TYM7 next Saturday, I might get lucky enough to hit a recording station. D:

 

[Pink Reaper]

So I still can't believe they let me into the MBR >.>


I've been going over the Kirby Match-Ups and I've finally come to terms with what is and isn't winnable. In terms of "You got this" it goes like this:

Totally Don't Got this Tier:
-Fox
-Peach
-Marth
-IC's

You Might Got This Tier:
-Falco
-Jiggs
-Ganon
-Mewtwo(Yeah, ****ing Mewtwo)
-Y.Link
-DK

You Probably Got this Tier:
-Sheik
-Samus
-Falcon
-Doc
-Luigi
-Mario
-Link
-Pikachu

You Got This Tier:
-Zelda
-G&W
-Roy
-Ness
-Yoshi

You Definitely Got This Tier:
-Pichu
-Bowser

 

[KirbyKaze]

I really don't find Mewtwo easier than Sheik at all.

Marth and Fox should have their own category against Kirby.

 

[Pink Reaper]

In terms of "This character is gonna **** you" I actually don't hate Marth as much as I do Peach or Fox. Fox I think should have his own category of "You wont win" and Peach has this really annoying "Kirby can't kill her" problem. It doesn't even have to be a good Peach, it just needs to be someone with good DI and access to the C-Stick and they can probably beat Kirby.

Marth can put Kirby away pretty well but it's not THAT hard to kill him with Kirby and it actually IS possible to win. It's just really ****ing hard.

 

[Smash G 0 D]

You don't got Luigi.

:]

 

[Skyson]

Looking at it like this is nice. My two cents on these match ups, if I count for anything. D:

Totally Don't Got this Tier:
-Fox (;-

-Peach (Really? Turnips give Kirby this much of a thrashing? I haven't done this match-up, but I have trouble wrapping my head around why this is so bad. Unless you crouch too much to avoid being grabbed [and then getting set up for Dsmash] then Fair seems like a relatively safe way to approach. I highly underestimate Peach, though, so there's something I'm missing.)

-Marth (Mm..I hate it with a passion, but it is a prime example of why Kirby cannot play offensively. Patience and a good knack for playing defensively can make this match-up more manageable than it seems, I think.)

-IC's (Another match-up I'm unfamiliar with, but I have to assume that you can't duck their grab. Kirb's Dsmash seems like a good way to repel their grab since the hitboxes on it linger for a little bit, and even Dtilt to poke away. Could Dair eat through their shields enough to let the ground hitbox stun them and prevent a shieldgrab? I don't know for sure, but I'm curious as to what makes this particular one so bad.)


You Might Got This Tier:
-Falco (It's all about getting that first hit in, really. One hit to put them off the edge, then you've got the stock. Of course, whether you get that first hit in the first stock or the fourth stock... that is the question. <_<)

-Jiggs (I see a lot of this match played on the edges/off-stage. Jiggs' Side-B is annoying as **** to get through unless you're aware of the length of the hitboxes. A big thing that I think helps this one is not immediately jumping when recovering, because all the Puff needs to do is read one jump and toss a b-air, then you're eating 3~4 more and a probable KO. Really risky match without a lot of quick ways to kill. I don't like this one.)

-Ganon (Ganon hurts a ****ing lot. It's not like Falcon where you have some chances to break out of/not get mindgamed into combos from a few low-knockback hits or knees.. every single attack is probably going to chuck Kirby off the stage. Ganon tosses Kirby around like a shotput disk, but he telegraphs pretty much all of his moves, with Uair being an exception, it's ****ing fast. You have to beat back a wall in this one, and good spacing on Ganon's part is even tougher to get around..)

-Mewtwo (lol? brb, gonna go find a good Mewtwo player in Ohio/the entire Midwest to test this against. ~_~)

-Y.Link (The nuances of the Link matchup still exist here, but now they're faster. Kirby doesn't like fast, I've picked up. Fast with projectiles is even more annoying. I play Young Link myself, and I know how agile the kid can be. Being able to even get close to him with Kirby is a rarity.)

-DK (DK ***** Kirby and it hurts.)


You Probably Got this Tier:
-Sheik (Most fun top tier match-up for Kirby imo. Needles are really the only thing that skew this match-up in Sheik's favor (a lot) but Kirby can take those. Being able to duck her grab = <3, though I think you can only dodge the standing grab, not the running grab. So, JC grab Sheiks get raaaaaped. =O I like this match-up but I don't play against really gay Sheiks, so my cup is still half-full for this one. =D)

-Samus (lolsamus. big clanky ***** that wears a "SWALLOWCIDE ME" sign whenever she is off the ledge.)

-Falcon (all day. Favorite high tier match-up, maybe favorite match-up, for Kirby. I need to get destroyed by a pro Falcon so I can stop loving this match-up so much. Duck, predict attacks with Utilt, commence the DESTRUCTOTRON.)

-Doc (Doc and Mario bother me. Cape is stupid. Pills hurt. Gimpable recoveries are well-appreciated, though. =D)

-Luigi (Nair is a big sweaty **** here, but it's Luigi so we're going to get him off the edge somehow, then pretty much hit whichever button on the Gamecube controller we want to make Luigi lose a stock. Yayyy.)

-Mario (Doc.)

-Link (I don't like this match-up much, but Link is slow and clunky so keeping up with him isn't overly difficult. Just make your way under/through the waves of ****.)

-Pikachu (lolpika.)

You Got This Tier:
-Zelda (Midwest has really good Zeldas. I cannot get an approach in here at all. It's a matter of "am I jumping into her Bair or jumping away to eat her Fair?" I try to beg them to transform into Sheik. =( )

-G&W (I'm the only one in my area that is awesome enough to play G&W [and Kirby] so I don't know what this is like.)

-Roy (My friend "mains" Roy and CCs like a mother****. I've seen Kirby die from 0% on the edge of Yoshi's Story. Grab, downthrow, fsmash, KO. It was disgusting. Just space better than Roy and you'll win, because Roy is awful.)

-Ness (dunno.)

-Yoshi (Bair is always the best aerial to take out his jump. If you watch for when the jump starts, you can throw a Bair early enough for them to think they'll armor through it. I want to believe that Yoshi's invincibility diminishes over the time that his double jump animation goes on, or more specifically the necessary power of an attack that can cancel it out decreases. Fun match.)

You Definitely Got This Tier:
-Pichu (Pichu is fast, man. So fast. I find this match-up difficult for the sole fact that, for once, I have to be the "larger" character trying to re-orient myself to hitting the smaller character, except this smaller character happens to be a whole lot ****ing faster than me. Baiting thunder jolts for free damage to force an approach is cool, though.)

-Bowser (*Powerthirst "AUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGH" because Bowser is a relatively easy match-up for Kirby.)

Marth and Fox should have their own category against Kirby.

/agree. =(

 

[Smash G 0 D]

Luigi isn't helpless off the edge - common misconception!

 

[Skyson]

Well, I know that, but Kirby has a lot of jumps to go chase him with. As long as you don't knock him too high vertically, you can just hover over him and Dair him to a KO. Low% kills on Luigi can be done that way, at least. Bair him off the stage, hover Dair, edgehog.

Ironically enough, I find Luigi harder to kill at higher %s with Kirby. xD

 

[Pink Reaper]

I've killed luigi more than once by just jumping out and letting him hit me with Side B. It's hilarious.

 

[Smash G 0 D]

Based on what I know about Kirby, Luigi is much faster. Especially if he has platforms, so getting Luigi off the edge is something hard to do in itself. Most Luigi are very cautious towards the edge anyways. Also, doesn't Kirby's Dair have some startup lag? I'm sure it's possible to sneak an Uair on Kirby before it comes out, if the Luigi predicts well. Meh, idk. Gotta test it, I guess.

 

[Skyson]

Yes, Luigi is faster than Kirby on the stage. Every character save Bowser (but really good Bowsers can argue against that) is faster than Kirby on the stage. It's the edgeguarding, in my opinion, that really places Kirby above the others. Having multiple jumps to chase and finish a recovering opponent is super necessary. :D

Typically I'd just be hovering over while you charged Green Missile. I mean, watching you throw Uair and lose some height just to push me back so I can use Dair again is very kind of you, but I could even take Reaper's suggestion and soak up the Missile to give you no height. Or, if I was feeling particularly chipper, using Down-B at the same time as your Missile so that it hit the rock and did no damage to me. :]

 

[Smash G 0 D]

You're listing some extremely situational... situations ._. and Uair, if used properly, does not lose Luigi height.

 

[Skyson]

The down-b thing was really a joke. In the offhand occasion that it would block the missile, it would also hit Luigi and pop him up, so you'd be gaining more height off of it. <_<

Floating out to right in front of Luigi and just taking the hit of Green Missile is a very viable option, granted that Kirby isn't at a high enough percent for the thing to kill him.

Staying and hovering (5 jumps, I can wait out your charge, you'll have to fire eventually or you'll die) to catch the Missile with a Dair is perfectly doable, since Missile can't sweetspot the edge. The only risk is mistiming the Dair and having the missile explode my feet.

Other than that, not very situational. I didn't think Uair lost you that much height, but it'd be dumb to waste all of Kirby's jumps just to try and hit Luigi before he used the Missile and shot past Kirby. <_<

 

[Smash G 0 D]

I was ignoring the rock thing xD

And the waiting thing is true, but at this point you'd have to assume that Luigi is at high percent and you got him off the stage. This is pretty much basic edgeguarding in Kirby's way, like Dsmashing at the edge against a Falcon with Sheik. I'm saying you can't gimp Luigi; he doesn't need missile to recover at low % if you just Bair him.

 

[Pink Reaper]

you could do what I do and use Inhale and go for a swallowcide cancel. I use that so much, even on last stock when im behind.

 

[Skyson]

"if you just Bair him"

That's probably where I would Bair him two more times, then fly towards the stage and throw Dair. Wall of Pain Luigi back a little bit, still a low percent, then get ready to Dair. Unless you start charging the missile immediately after taking the Bairs, I'm saying there will be issues with recovery.

Dsmashing at the edge with Sheik is silly, anyway. Chain is so much better. <_<

 

[Smash G 0 D]

I can go into detail as to why Dsmashing with Sheik against a recovering Falcon is acceptable, especially considering my brother is a pretty high level Sheik player and has explained this to me himself ._. but let's not get into that.

When you described the multiple Bairs, my first reaction was to instantly get out that missile. But yeah, I guess you could cause a lot of Luigis problems. I've always considered edgegames to be my specialty though, so it may be a different story from my perspective.

And Pink Reaper, swallow cancel kills are banned. Trust me. Don't use it.

 

[Pink Reaper]

I can go into detail as to why Dsmashing with Sheik against a recovering Falcon is acceptable, especially considering my brother is a pretty high level Sheik player and has explained this to me himself ._. but let's not get into that.

When you described the multiple Bairs, my first reaction was to instantly get out that missile. But yeah, I guess you could cause a lot of Luigis problems. I've always considered edgegames to be my specialty though, so it may be a different story from my perspective.

And Pink Reaper, swallow cancel kills are banned. Trust me. Don't use it.

Im surprised you responded so quickly considering how long it must have taken to color that whole thing

In terms of what I do to luigi if I have to edge guard I usually just sit there where I KNOW he has to go(Missile is too predictable) and just spam Bair. You know **** well a recovering Luigi doesn't have a huge amount of options and considering Kirby literally can just sit there in one spot walling Luigi(though admittedly Jiggs and Peach do it better) means he shouldn't have too much trouble edge guarding him.

Dair is actually NOT my edgeguard of choice against Luigi. Since most Luigi's save their jump as long as possible if they Meteor Cancel out of it it puts them in front of you ready to Bair you. Kirby doesn't have alot of good options on an opponent who's in front of him, especially not in the air. It's far to risky when Bair is just so easy.


Also, Swallowcide is toooooooooo good. Let's go to the MBR and get it banned.

 

[Smash G 0 D]

Im surprised you responded so quickly considering how long it must have taken to color that whole thing

I have many skills.

In terms of what I do to luigi if I have to edge guard I usually just sit there where I KNOW he has to go(Missile is too predictable) and just spam Bair. You know **** well a recovering Luigi doesn't have a huge amount of options and considering Kirby literally can just sit there in one spot walling Luigi(though admittedly Jiggs and Peach do it better) means he shouldn't have too much trouble edge guarding him.

Dair is actually NOT my edgeguard of choice against Luigi. Since most Luigi's save their jump as long as possible if they Meteor Cancel out of it it puts them in front of you ready to Bair you. Kirby doesn't have alot of good options on an opponent who's in front of him, especially not in the air. It's far to risky when Bair is just so easy.

Yeah I don't see Dair as a huge threat to my recovery as Luigi. It's just getting pushed away from the edge that will kill. Tornado, UpB, and the saved jump are all reliable ways for Luigi to survive, but missile is easily beaten.

Also, Swallowcide is toooooooooo good. Let's go to the MBR and get it banned.

Let us make haste!

 

[Pink Reaper]

I feel like Luigi should be way lower.
Like, at the bottom.
The absolute bottom.
Because he's garbage.

Get *****. Kirby > Luigi

NEXT TOPIC

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

I saw something earlier about kirby vs ice climbers, I main them so yeah. basiclly everything works vs kirby, chain throws,wavesmashing,juggling,de-snyces, kirby is slower and can't camp them. so what can he do? edge gaurd, B isn't nearly as useful vs them. Heck I could camp kirby as the ice climbers, with de-snyned ice block wavedash and quad ice blocks even if it's not that useful.

Even vs solo popo what can kirby do? popo could beat kirby's bair with his auto canceled bair and popo's does more. Plus dair is good vs kirby. Kirby would be a bigger joke than roy vs ice climbers, heck pichu at that because at least he is immue to all but one chain throw and can't be juggled or camped.

I would love to fight a kirby just ice block chase grab, have fun

 

[Skyson]

The situation sounds grim, but I think Final Cutter beats ice blocks, if nothing else.

 

[KirbyKaze]

I think you can still do more to a Peach.

Smart Marth is very, very unwinnable. Fortunately, Smart Marth is also an oxymoron so we don't have to worry about him.

Ice Climbers I don't know but I could see why it could be really bad.

 

[Skyson]

Fair just feels like a really good attack against characters who play a very punish-based game. It has relative range for a Kirby attack, and the floatiness of it makes it able to be spaced well enough to avoid shieldgrabbing in some cases. I like it a lot.

Headed to a smashfest, lots of Foxes, Falcos, Sheiks, and Ganons. I plan on bringing the K Train. D:

 

[KirbyKaze]

My only Sheik experience was vs two extremely campy, hyper conservative, needle-spammy Sheiks that never shield-grabbed at ducking Kirby or Puff, so I never found Sheik fun at all

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

All you could do is the gayest thing in all if smash(stage wise) take the ice climbers to poke floats, which your chances still aren't great. maybe if you got nana all by herself you could get 5 uptilts

 

[Ocho(*8*)]

So after Kirby inhales you and steals your neutral-b, what can you do to make him drop it?

I know he drops it if he gets hit, but not always, so I'm assuming there's a certain time period after the inhale where he will drop it if he gets hit. Does anyone know this time period?

Or is it something else?

 

[Pink Reaper]

Taunt.

10chars

 

[Ocho(*8*)]

^ I know about the taunt.

I'm the person fighting kirby who's trying to make him drop my **** lasers.

 

[Pink Reaper]

Kill him.

There's no guaranteed way to make him drop a power, you just have to hit him till it happens. You could spam moves with multiple hits(like Fox/Falco's Uthrow) and try and make it happen faster but there's nothing you can do to force it out outright.

You could also try just not getting inhaled.

 

[Nashun]

Fair just feels like a really good attack against characters who play a very punish-based game. It has relative range for a Kirby attack, and the floatiness of it makes it able to be spaced well enough to avoid shieldgrabbing in some cases. I like it a lot.

Nahh...Fair's pretty bad. You use it to beat jumps and whatnot but it doesn't have enough range to use for any sort of pressure. It has a fast start-up so you can try to use it before other moves come out but as an approach...you're better off f-tilting or b-airing.

It's decent against shield but it's shield-grabable except at the tip...and if you're spacing it like that it'll get beat by anything that's not a shield.

"Relative range for a Kirby attack" means absolutely nothing in this context. What matters is relative range to other characters' attacks...and fair doesn't have relative range for an attack.

And every character plays a "very punish-based game" so I don't know what you're talking about there.

You can use it to punish whiffs and stuff since it's probably your fastest aerial while dashing but in every other case you're going to want your back to your opponent in any sort of confrontation.

 

[KirbyKaze]

I like to F-air.

Maybe that's why my Kirby is bad...

 

[soap]

My only Sheik experience was vs two extremely campy, hyper conservative, needle-spammy Sheiks that never shield-grabbed at ducking Kirby or Puff, so I never found Sheik fun at all

who were these players? jus curious

my friend plays a ton of kirby, super annoying. I could not shieldgrab fair to dtilt.

fair comes out fast, doesnt let u jump, and has protection all the way down, and is hard to shieldgrab.

WD back spam kinda ***** it, but what doesnt wd back solve against kirby