Kirby General Discussion

[Xiivi]

There are a million things that Kirby can do, but we don't need that many new threads to pop up. In order to discuss Kirby's combos, t!mmy's Competitive Kirby Guide, framerates, etc. without making a new thread for each individual detail, I've made a General Discussion of sorts for all things Kirby (and other characters if we're discussing strategies).

Kirby FTW.

 

[nitro-blazer]

Well, there is already a large topic on this very thing.

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=47755

 

[Sushiman]

Whaaat?! I feel incredibly stupid. -_______- I can't delete it either. *cannot hide shame*

 

[nitro-blazer]

No, no, it's okay. The other topic is past the 'show up on the boards' date, so if you never heard of it before, then you probably wouldn't know unless you explore past topics.

Still, it might not be a bad idea to start a new one. There are a few players who weren't active during that time, so this one could give people a reason to discuss techniques, which, in the first place, lead to the discovery of older techniques. Plus, a lot of smaller topics can be confusing, and hard to keep up with. We need a new one anyway.

Anyway, one thing we could start discussion on is luring enemies to the edge, by force or persuasion. This is one thing I myself need to work on as well.

 

[DeathscytheHello]

Anyway, one thing we could start discussion on is luring enemies to the edge, by force or persuasion. This is one thing I myself need to work on as well.

Kirby players have to be tricky in order to win. So, this is what you do...

When the ref isn't looking, punch the other person in the face, then threaten that it'll happen again unless they throw the match.

Or, if you want legal moves, I guess you could, you know, just stand at the edge and taunt. If you're winning, they have to come to you to have any chance at winning, so just play the waiting game. If you're behind, well, hope the annoying taunts will do something.

I'll think more on it later.

 

[Sushiman]

I usually stand next to the ledge and taunt, unless they have projectiles. In this case, I duck and unduck. Sometimes, I hang off the ledge and ledgehop. That usually gets the opponent to come for you.

EDIT: Good news. I got an AR, so I'll try to put some Kirby debug hitboxes up during the weekend. (iImight be too busy making a short movie with it, though)

 

[Sushiman]

Double Post.

There's been a load of discussion in the brainstorm thread, but that doesn't mean we can't start another one here.

Death to Marth Maneuver
To be revealed later.

I've been checking t!mmy's guide for the past month, but I never saw an update on this one tidbit. Does anyone know of this "death to Marth"? I also heard t!mmy was making a video guide for Kirby, too.

EDIT: Found this in the archives

I think I may have just found a new tactic for Kirby. It's a bit tricky, and kind of hard to explain, but I'll try my best.

This is just a new way to effectively recover when hanging from the ledge. If the opponent is somewhat close to the edge, this should work no matter whether they shield or not. All that's involved is letting yourself fall just a little bit further before ledge-hopping, and as soon as you jump to cancel the falling, hold towards the stage and use the hammer. When the hammer is used before reaching the apex of a jump, it doesn't give that extra little float that you would normally see. If you do it right, you should barely go over the lip of the edge while using the hammer, and hit the ground while the attack frames of the hammer are in front of you. Landing while the attack is still in motion gives no additional frames of lag, and the shield lag given from the hammer should keep the opponentin the shield until you can attack again. I've tested this in AR, and the hammer shield lag is 18~ frames, while the Kirby's actual landing lag is 24~ frames. As something to compare it to, that's pretty much the same time it takes a Kirby to wavedash. Most characters have at least 5 frames of lag before the grab hitboxes appear, and adding on 4 or 5 frames of player error before starting the grab should give Kirby enough time to crouch, thus avoiding the grab, and start a dtilt to knock them back. And this is assuming that the opponent saw this coming and has practiced against it. In most cases, the Kirby should have enough time to attempt a grab himself before the opponent will react.

Again, it's probably hard to imagine without actually seeing it, but I've tried my best to explain it. I haven't practiced this against a human opponent too much yet, but it should theoretically it will work great.

 

[Samochan]

Death to marth maneuver is the lightshield edgeguard, where you bait the marth player into trying to sweetspot the ledge with his up B while you're as close to the edge as possible lightshielding and moving the shield a bit down and away so that marth surely hits it. When he does, it drops you on the ledge before marth can grab it, therefore edgehogging him effectively.

 

[Sushiman]

Ohh, now I see. I should try that some time. How do you move your light shield? Just by tilting the control stick, right?

At first, I thought the Death to Marth Maneuver was a crazy combo that instantly kills all Marths, haha. I guess I could dream.

 

[Smash G 0 D]

Dreaming is good. So are Kirby general discussion topics

Kirby players are usually too smart. I play a bit of Kirby, he's cool.

***POST 911***

 

[nitro-blazer]

Dreaming is good. So are Kirby general discussion topics

Kirby players are usually too smart. I play a bit of Kirby, he's cool.

***POST 911***

*Dreams that Kirby is top tier...*

*...Is dreaming of himself playing SSB64.*

I'm hoping for enough improvements to make him at least mid-tier in Brawl, like more aerial mobility, not losing all your jumps out of cutter, one more reliable kill move, less lag, or, more power for those laggy attacks.

 

[Sushiman]

I wish stone would spike, or at least hold down the enemy with you while you go down at top speed.

Anyone want to tell me who the best Kirby player is?

 

[t!MmY]

Death to marth maneuver is the lightshield edgeguard

That's the "Marth Trick".

 

[psykoplympton]

I have a tournement coming up and my biggest fear is sheik players. can anyone tell me of tricks to get sheiks? Its my first tournement, may i add, and i want it to be a good one.

 

[nitro-blazer]

I have a tournement coming up and my biggest fear is sheik players. can anyone tell me of tricks to get sheiks? Its my first tournement, may i add, and i want it to be a good one.

You can crouch under Sheiks grab, and you have a larger grab range.

 

[Buttcrust]

^ That's basically it.

Best Kirby player? I's say it's close between KrazyKirbyKid, Kirbstir, King Kirby90, and Omnigamer. They're all very good.

 

[t!MmY]

Kirby's combo's vs. Sheik can actually be effective. I've had Sheik players tell me Kirby "counters" Sheik. One time I tried to enlighten one player that Kirby does not counter Sheik, so he just said he's a "light counter". X_X

Up-Tilts work nicely on Sheik, but, as said above, crouching is very important. Players unfamiliar with Kirby will go with default attacks (grabs, dash attacks, etc) and suddenly realize that they're not nearly as effective against Kirby as with other characters.

After this, Sheik players will resort to Needle Storm (which goes over Kirby's head while he ducks). What do you think they do next? That's right, more needles, but they usually have the smarts to try the aerial type so they're angled diagonally down onto Kirby. If you're fast enough, you can catch them off guard as they throw needles and hit them with aerials.

When Sheik recovers, make sure to edge hog. This forces her to use Vanish over the ledge and back onto the stage. Ledge hop, stand, or roll as time allows to maneuver yourself to either knock Sheik back off, lead into a combo, or go for a KO as necessary. D-smash in the high percents is a fast way to KO this way (like, over 125% - 150% depending on the stage).

(I'd like to have written more, but I have class in 5 mins!)

 

[psykoplympton]

Excellent, that really helps. The best kirby players i think are T!mmy and king kirby 90, they are both really good.

 

[Sushiman]

Yeah, I've watched a bunch of t!mmy and Omnigamer's videos, and it's really fun to watch them kick butt.

 

[t!MmY]

Psykoplympton - When is your tournament? I have one this weekend and I could try to record a Kirby vs Sheik match for you.

 

[psykoplympton]

Its this weekend on saturday.

 

[t!MmY]

Hm, no time then. :\

 

[psykoplympton]

yeah, i appreciate it though. I always like to learn from your vids. The tournement is tommorrow and i think im ready for it.

 

[t!MmY]

My brother and I took first in Low Tier Doubles yesterday with Pichu + Kirby (and some Zelda + Kirby). ^_^

 

[Sushiman]

Yay for low tier! Good job, Timmy. What place do you guys usually get in normal tournaments?

 

[psykoplympton]

I just did my tournement and lost first round, to a peach. It turns out i dont know how to handle peach, any tips?

 

[nitro-blazer]

I just did my tournement and lost first round, to a peach. It turns out i dont know how to handle peach, any tips?

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=90150

A lot of good info in this thread here.

 

[Buttcrust]

Peach is tough. U-air has many uses here. F/B-air her while she floats. Use grab a lot.

 

[Samochan]

I just did my tournement and lost first round, to a peach. It turns out i dont know how to handle peach, any tips?

Nitro posted a good link for kirby vs peach discussion, but if you'd like to handle peaches other low tier way, you should try zelda. Zelda's toes can be spaced effectively so that peach can't shieldgrab. Her short hop fair/bair is also on the right height to hit a floathing peach and has enough priority and quickness to get trough her attacks. It's also easy to z-catch peach's turnips with zelda. She also doesn't have huge learning curve and doesn't need much technical skill either, and if it goes very rough you can always switch to sheik for a grab and uair/fair kill. >.> For a low tier, zelda does pretty well against peach so if you want a low tier counterpick againct peach, pick her. Link and Luigi are other options, but have bigger learning curve and while they cna effectively handle peaches, especially link needs to be very skilled or he'll get comboed to hell and back by peach.

 

[t!MmY]

The best we've done before in an Oregon tournament was 2nd in Doubles ... but that was "Normal" Doubles, not limited to Low Tier. Outside of Oregon we took 13th at NCT2 Doubles. This time around, we lost to a Ness/Kirby team first round because my brother kept getting the Kirbys mixed up. Lol. That, and the Ness player is really good.

We went all the way through Loser's Brackets to take out a Roy/Jiggly in Loser's Finals so we could go up against the Ness/Kirby players again in the finals. Finals were best 3 of 5, and they won the first two, I thought for sure we'd have to settle for second, but my brother and I managed to win the next 3.

We still had to win another 3 of 5 set since we were coming from Loser's Bracket, and we won the next three with a combination of Pichu and Zelda FTW. All the tournament matches were being recorded, so I'll definately put a link for them up in the Kirby Video Archeive when they're online.

 

[Sushiman]

Wow! That sounds so intense! My Kirby doesn't really stand a chance down here in SoCal. Ken and all the space animals that live here dominate the normal tournaments. . . but even if there was a low-tier tournament, Ken beats everyone with his G&W.

Highest place I've ever gotten was 33rd in singles B)

 

[Samochan]

I wanna see Ken's GW. >_>

 

[Sushiman]

You can find Ken's G&W in there. http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=93825

I had my tournament today, but I couldn't get anything recorded. Sorry. I didn't get very far in singles, anyway (5th out of 12). My partner and I won doubles, though.

 

[Sushiman]

Double Post

Kirby doesn't have many things to do, does he? When I research other characters, they have so many possibilities. You look at Samus and his SWD, SHMC, and Falco's SHL, and even Mewtw's SUNC. Does Kirby have any special moves that are abbreviated to make them sound cooler? If so, a list would be nice. Maybe we just haven't explored Kirby as much as the other characters have been.

 

[Buttcrust]

SHFFLAUA... I guess.

He can do all of the projectile cancels.

What about this, DSH invented the name to give him credit, but I invented abbrev.
WH, basically WD back and hammer them. Wave-hammer.

 

[nitro-blazer]

SHAH and RAH?

Kirbycide? (Erm, krbSD?)

Full Jump Double Bair (FJDB)?

Samus and his SWD

 

[Sushiman]

Whaattt?? What are all these abbreviations?! O_O Anyone care to explain? There isn't a specific list, so we Kirby mains don't really know what to do and just improvise during a game. You see, I didn't know that a FJDB would be effective, so I never really implemented it in my game.

Samus and his SWD

Shaddup. D: My friend mains samus, and he's too manly to be a girl. I keep forgetting >.> Perhaps when Brawl comes out.

 

[nitro-blazer]

Full jump double bair is pretty usefull at times.

Of course, Kirby doesn't have anything even CLOSE to as good as SHL, the missile cancel, or most other moves, but there are abbreviations for the few things he does have.

 

[DeathscytheHello]

Of course, Kirby doesn't have anything even CLOSE to as good as SHL

Are you kidding? SHDL.

And the WH, as Buttcrust puts it, is always great. It's more of an insult than a move. It's like saying, "Hey, why don't I read you so well as to not only hit you with my really laggy move, but also sweetspot it?"

 

[nitro-blazer]

Are you kidding? SHDL.

Yes, but the SHDL can only be used against one character, unless it's teams. Falco has his approach available to him against every character in the game.