Kirby General Discussion

[Pink Reaper]

I like to Inhale. Alot.

 

[Skyson]

I like all of Kirby's aerials, tbh. Even [to a small extent] Nair. Some people I play try to shieldgrab too early and eat the hitbox and light knockback, usually leading into an Utilt or grab or some nonsense. Very rarely, really.

Uair all day, though. SOOOOOO good.

 

[Nashun]

I like to F-air.

Maybe that's why my Kirby is bad...

Nahh. Don't get me wrong. Fair's okay if there's really not a confrontation going on and you need to set up some pressure; it's fairly safe and it lasts a while...

It's just that everything but moving/shielding (i.e. attacks) beat it.

Limit their movement with it but don't fight with it.

 

[KirbyKaze]

I like his Fair, wavelanding or double jumping into more Fair is really fun sometimes.

 

[ranmaru]

I like Kirby's Dair. And is Bair. I love meteoring people (by making sure all the hits hit) And I love getting powers. Thats the best power ever.

I haven't played him in a tournament setting as of yet. I have that syndrome... Where I play everyone the same. So I have to stick to one character. :/

 

[Pink Reaper]

I rarely try and drag people down with Kriby's Dair unless im on a stage like Yoshi Story or against a character with lolbad vertical recovery(Dk and Boozer) I usually try and hit with the tip of the foot on the last hit, as it leaves me as high above the opponent as possible and gives me options should I miss. If you miss with an all out Meteor you're now below your opponent with one of the most gimpable characters in the game.

 

[KirbyKaze]

A lot of characters with slow jumps and up moves are kind of stuck when Kirby Dairs right above them before their moves come out.

I also like to hit with Dair moving away from them to get them in the weird "getting *****" animation and then F-smash them at medium percents.

At high percent I try to do first hit of Dair into F/U-smash/Bair sometimes for KOs or edgeguard setups. At super high percents, I substitute for Uair if necessary, or just do Bair.

Dair is cool.

 

[ranmaru]

I also love u-tilting after Dairing. It made me realize, 'hey, his move set is kind of like fox/falco's. For example, his fair.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Only Fox and Falco's moves come out twice as fast, stay out three times longer, and have disproportionately good hitboxes for their properties.

 

[ranmaru]

But kirby has a better taunt. I like Kirby better in melee than Brawl. Don't know why.

 

[Skyson]

But kirby has a better taunt. I like melee better than Brawl. Don't know why Brawl was ever made.

There ya go, helped clean up that post. =]

 

[KirbyKaze]

Edgeguard Link with Stone.

Laugh as they miss the tech.

 

[Skyson]

Stone + breakout into Uair is way too good.

 

[ranmaru]

There ya go, helped clean up that post. =]

Haha, nice one, gave me a good laugh.

Edgeguard Link with Stone.

Laugh as they miss the tech.

Oh I will laugh. Also, I like only doing the down throw > up-tilt, and the up throw randomly sometimes. I hate when I L-cancel my u-airs to early though, thats something I gotta get used to.

 

[Pink Reaper]

Edgeguard Link with Stone.

Laugh as they miss the tech.

I've done this to Falco/Fox multiple times. It's rather easy if they're trying to hug the wall for a sweetspot.

 

[Stevo]

do you guys think kirby would be playable if his run attack was twice as fast and if he had no landing lag during arial forward b???

 

[KirbyKaze]

No.

10nos.

The root(s) of Kirby's problem(s) is that they gave him poor jumps, no aerial mobility at all, and poor hitboxes on all his moves (except tilts, bair, swallow kind of, and grab). Unfortunately, despite having a good grab, he lacks throws that do... things... which largely nullifies the usefulness of having such a good grab hitbox.

 

[!!!random falcon scrub!!!]

kirby is really cool! king d3 splats all over him though XD

 

[Stevo]

No.

10nos.

The root(s) of Kirby's problem(s) is that they gave him poor jumps, no aerial mobility at all, and poor hitboxes on all his moves (except tilts, bair, swallow kind of, and grab). Unfortunately, despite having a good grab, he lacks throws that do... things... which largely nullifies the usefulness of having such a good grab hitbox.

well i totally agree with you on all those points, but I was thinking it might make him playable (maybe not good lol)

maybe you are right, he is REALLY bad, he might would need even more than that.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Autocancel Hammer and a good dash attack would probably help him immensely, by giving him some stuff to approach with on the ground and cover big distance but by "help him immensely" I really mean he'd go up to bottom of low tier or something.

Autocancel Hammer in theory is really, really gay.

He'd still have most of his other problems.

 

[Nashun]

Autocancel hammer would give him mid-% combos. Exactly what he needs to get the dude to the end of the stage for the edgeguard.

But really any multi-hit aerial with 0 landing lag is just sooooo good. Can't shield grab it and leads to advantageous mix-up on block.

How much it would help him would be limited to how many moves could beat it, though.

 

[Stevo]

Either way, its kirby we are talking about, he could use something good, even if its "gay"
I guess a slight increase to his arial move speed (not like jiggly speed, but an increase) the ability to follow up his throws, and a run attack that doesnt suck, would make him "playable".

If ever melee+ is possible, Im gonna try it out lol.

 

[KirbyKaze]

How much it would help him would be limited to how many moves could beat it, though.

Well, it is a big spinny hammer...

Granted I wouldn't be surprised if Kirby's hammer had an awful hitbox purely because it's Kirby and Smash hates Hammers but even so, how bad can it be? It would probably at least trump non-sword/Sheik moves...

 

[Nashun]

I don't really use hammer much. When I do it's an accident. I have no idea what key moves it beats. Some really important ones it would need to be able to beat are the spacies' sex kicks and at least a couple of peach's aerials. And it would really help if it, at the very least, traded with marth's fair. It would be dumb if it lost to stuff like if the tip of sheik's bair though.

Edit: nvm, just replayed it in my head. marth's fair has better range than air hammer. doesn't matter though. it comes out pretty instantly and it would be a decent out of shield option if he doesn't want to grab.

+ it could lead to decent combos on marth.

 

[KirbyKaze]

I do hammer a lot when the platforms are low on FoD because it's easy to edgecancel there. Edgecanceling Hammer into Bair is pretty decent for flashy pressure.

It seems to have reasonable priority, definitely enough to beat the starfurries' aerial suite.

 

[Skyson]

Maaaan. I've found thinking about what I wish Kirby could do to be a big time waster.

It's a lot easier to acknowledge what you can't do rather than fantasize about what you want to do.

Kirby/Zelda is a pretty fair matchup. It throws off Zelda's game when the kicking target is about 1/3 the size (about 1/6 when ducking) of the usual kicking target. You can punish missed kicks and actually combo decently out of Utilt at low percents. She also helps to promote non-reckless playstyle, and with the good Midwest Zeldas here, I have a lot of fun with the matchup.

Just updating with stuff as I encounter it; I've actually started using Kirby as a secondary to my main, Sheik, against some characters/players who have played x-million other Sheiks to read me perfectly. <_<

 

[Nashun]

I've actually started using Kirby as a secondary to my main, Sheik, against some characters/players who have played x-million other Sheiks to read me perfectly. <_<

Because what other Sheiks do dictate your actions?

You read the player, not the character. No amount of match-up experience will give you player information on someone you've never played.

 

[Skyson]

Really? Every single Sheik player is unique? Reading the way a bunch of different people play the same character can give another player a general concept of how that character is played well. It gets to the point where doing things outside of the norm would only be bad for that player.

Maybe I don't incorporate enough into my personal game to throw people off, but there are a few characters that I can get significantly better results from when using Kirby against than Sheik. I don't change as a player, but I change my character. Why is there a difference there, then?

 

[Stevo]

Maaaan. I've found thinking about what I wish Kirby could do to be a big time waster.

It's a lot easier to acknowledge what you can't do rather than fantasize about what you want to do.

I dunno man, kirby CANT do a lot of things, somehow I dont think that would be easier lol.

 

[Skyson]

I dunno man, kirby CANT do a lot of things, somehow I dont think that would be easier lol.

That's.. kinda what I said.

Playing Kirby for so long against just about anyone gives you examples of all the disadvantages Kirby is put at. Hitbox range, aerial control, aerial mobility, really gimpable recovery, low priority.. really, I know that there's a lot he lacks. He is where he is on the tier list for a good reason.

None of that impedes me from playing the character, though. One of the best ways to get a feel for a character is to learn their strengths and weaknesses. Kirby... just happens to have a lot of weaknesses. At the same time, the "if only Kirby had this" things to "make up" strengths that aren't there tend to get in the way.

Of course, dreaming is lovely and everything, but wishing is for the wishers, and overcoming is for the determined.

I'm determined to carry a tournament-legit Kirby as a secondary to Sheik. I've gotten over what I wish Kirby could do, and I can only focus on what I can make Kirby do. :O

I've noticed, going back through my posts in this thread, that I'm not offering a whole lot of actual information, just kind of ideas about things. ~_~

I wish there were other good Kirbys in the midwest to play with. I have trouble finding low tier players as it is. xD

 

[Pink Reaper]

Tournament-Legit Kirby equates to a pocket character you can pull out on a player who's playing a) a character you're extremely familiar playing against b) extremely unfamiliar with Kirby c) Not above your skill level whatsoever and d) about to get counter picked on a stage that ***** them.

It's not impossible. CP a falcon player on Mute City with Kirby. It can work.

 

[Skyson]

A sounds cool, though. From one of my best friends maining Falcon he consistently beats my Sheik, but I've picked up Kirby and can beat him there.

B is hard to get a feel for if you don't know the person. Of course, assuming nobody is familiar with Kirby is just as good. :D

C is an option I go for when I want to practice Kirby a little seriously, since pulling Sheik on a lower-skill level player is boring and I usually throw the exact same combo all 4 stocks, and it feels really stale.

D has never been a reason for me. I'm stupid with stage picks all the time. I just ban Battlefield and go. I'm starting to consider banning Dreamland because most matches with my Kirby end up pushing 6 minutes. ._.

I did manage to beat a decent Marth by CPing Corneria, though. I think I was better skill-wise, but I dunno. Mute City for Falcon? Hmm.

 

[Nashun]

Really? Every single Sheik player is unique?

No, but they don't need to be for the sake of this argument.

Reading the way a bunch of different people play the same character can give another player a general concept of how that character is played well.

That is absolutely, 100% correct. But in SoCal's metagame there are always several viable options in nearly EVERY gameplay scenario that are all reactions to viable options by your opponent. I'm not sure how you guys play over there, but generally a character can be played well using a myriad of possible options it has in many different situations and nearly 100% of the time, both characters have viable options.

It gets to the point where doing things outside of the norm would only be bad for that player.

You say that like its a bad thing. As stated in my previous response, smash is deep enough so that in nearly every situation there are several viable options.

Maybe I don't incorporate enough into my personal game to throw people off, but there are a few characters that I can get significantly better results from when using Kirby against than Sheik.

That's all matchup, bro. Maybe you're better with Kirby vs. X or they're worse with X vs. Kirby than the respective Sheik matchups. Maybe you don't know all of Kirby's or Sheik's available viable options in certain scenarios so you're being predictable.

I don't change as a player, but I change my character. Why is there a difference there, then?

Consider your original statement. You know, the one I nitpicked at.

I've actually started using Kirby as a secondary to my main, Sheik, against some characters/players who have played x-million other Sheiks to read me perfectly. <_<

.

To say that experience vs. other Sheiks allows them to read you perfectly is silly! To summarize:

1. Sheik has several options in every scenario, including safe, "get out of jail free" options that are generally only punishable by a perfect read. Every Sheik player is different and its pretty impossible to find 2 players who have the same patterns and thought processes.
2. Matchup experience gives you a feel of what the viable options are between the two characters. It's extremely possible that your opponents (who are really good against sheik so are "perfectly reading you") know exactly what Sheik's options are and are just playing it safe. It's completely possible that they're waiting for you to make a mistake based on your lack of matchup experience and punishing it.

They know your options. Do you know your options as well as they do? That's probably why it seems like they're "reading" you perfectly. Sometimes more punishments are made from mistakes or bad choices rather than a read.

There are 2 possibilities.
A. You're making bad choices or tech skill mistakes and your opponent knows the matchup well enough to punish it. In which case they're not necessarily perfectly reading you. You're just messing up.
B. You're easy to read/You can't pick up reads as well as your opponent. In which case other Sheiks that they have played are irrelevant.


I'm pretty much done. And yes, this entire post was me nitpicking at his choice of words.


disclaimer: i'm not good at this game

 

[Pink Reaper]

disclaimer: i'm not good at this game

You play kirby, why would you even need that disclaimer?

 

[Tamoo]

Hey guys,
I kinda second Kirby (well, I just use him in low tier tournaments) so I thought Id share this info with you guys to hopefully help you in certain matchups. Im not claiming to have discovered this or anything, I found it on my own but I find it hard to beleive this community has not found this before, but it seems to be an AT that hasn’t been well publicised, nor well known at all from the reaction I got from posting it on the jiggs boards. So here goes.

Powershielding Made Easy​

Campy falco's always get to everyone eh? Well characters like jiggs can get round this with ease.

Method:

1) When you see the falco start to sh, crouch.

2) the laser will come towards you, wait for it to pass directly above you.
*The whole laser counts as a hitbox, so it is all powershieldable, so wait for any part of the animation to be above you*

3) Now, you have to let go of crouch, and in the time between getting up and getting hit by the laser, you have to shield.
*The whole shield allows you to powershield, not just the area between you and the edge of the shield*

If you do not let go of crouch, you actually light shield before fullshielding, which does not allow you to powershield.

Applications:

Close range: Wavedash oos to grab is very useful here, as they generally do not expect the grab coming at all, and hence, free uthrow to rest. Or just throw falco off the edge if he's close to the edge. Maybe go for a surprise rest, there are a lot of possibilities as falcos are generally thrown off by their blasters getting reflected back at them.

Long range: Camp the **** out of that spammy *****!!#

Might even make a little video to go along with this hehe

Hopefully, this can help all of you on your falco game, it may be quite hard to get the hang of, but at least jiggs has something remotely technical now

 

[Skyson]

Well, everything you said was straight up valid, and really all I have is the last thing you said, except it preemptively defines me.


disclaimer: i'm not good at this game


This was the truth before and after I'd picked up Kirby. I don't improve and I've yet to place well at any tournament I've attended.

So, sure, we'll just jump ship and go to the fact that I'm a predictable player and Sheik is my go to for the situation. I get read, beaten, and sent back to the start.

I basically just entertain myself by playing Kirby, and then get excited when I do good things so it seems like I'm progressing with someone that is low tier and not popular among the community.

No matter who I play, I don't get anywhere. I just have different styles with different characters that all add up to an equal amount of inability. xD

 

[KirbyKaze]

its pretty impossible to find 2 players who have the same patterns and thought processes.

Drephen and MacD.

 

[Pink Reaper]

Drephen and MacD.

LOL too good.

 

[KirbyKaze]

I'm the best son get at me.

 

[Massive]

Hey guys,
I kinda second Kirby (well, I just use him in low tier tournaments) so I thought Id share this info with you guys to hopefully help you in certain matchups. Im not claiming to have discovered this or anything, I found it on my own but I find it hard to beleive this community has not found this before, but it seems to be an AT that hasn’t been well publicised, nor well known at all from the reaction I got from posting it on the jiggs boards. So here goes.

I saw you post this on the Jiggs forums, I've been doing this for years! Now there's going to be copycats everywhere!
Nice work though, I kind of thought it was common knowledge for anyone that played Falcos regularly.

Kirby is tournament viable if they don't know how to play against a Kirby.
I usually pull him out in friendlies after elimination and school people who just knocked me out of the bracket simply because of the size of the dtilt/ftilt hit boxes and the frightening effectiveness of utilt>uair.

Air Hammer > Utilt > uair is a legendary combo.