Kind Code: Nintendo's way of putting GameFAQs out of business since 2009

[flyinfilipino]

I didn't know that there was so much disdain for casual gamers...

Feel free to chew me out for this, but why are some people opposed to letting casual gamers have their own gaming experience? I know some folks that never even beat Super Mario Sunshine because they thought it was too hard.

People are so quick to jump down Nintendo's throat nowadays (and I know you may have your reasons). But really, there are cheat codes and hacks out there in lots of games that can also deprive anyone of the "intended" experience. Those are entirely optional too and can make a game "easier".

 

[KosukeKGA]

Read the thread. There are various reasons why this is just bad in general for everyone.

Plus, most of those cheats or w/e were hidden, out of the way etc.
---
Now Nintendo players will have that stupid HINT button right there on the **** screen.

"Oh! Having trouble with something?! JUST HIT THE ****ING HINT BUTTON!"

 

[Overload]

Exactly. I enjoyed Super Mario 64 up until you beat Bowser for the 1st time. Then I stopped playing it. Why? I couldn't beat it, got angry, and dropped it. I traded SM64 for Jet Force Gemini. Same thing happened with the twin Mantis Brothers. It took me 5 years (I dropped it when i was 9) to pick up JFG. This time i didn't drop it becuase I gained more skill. But I gained more skill from constantly playing Rouge Squadron(which at the time was near impossible to hit Storm Troopers becuase they would be 16 bit on the 64 bit screen). But do you think a Casual has 30 hours a week to practice video games for 5 years? Of course not. That's why I'm standing by this idea. Hopefully Nintendo will sharpen up to get back to good old Water Temple.

Sounds to me like you give up way too easily. If you get stuck in a game all it takes is to keep trying. As you keep playing that same part you will discover the most efficient way to progress and your skill level will increase. You will finally beat that part and feel rewarded. One shouldn't give up whenever something gets too difficult for them as this is ridiculous.

Also, casual gamers tend to play casual games, hence the name casual gamers. They don't play for long periods of time, just every once in a while to relax. Do you think they are going to pick up OoT? Most likely not. Most casual gamers will stay casual gamers. Only a handful here and there will go on to play bigger and better games.

I didn't know that there was so much disdain for casual gamers...

Feel free to chew me out for this, but why are some people opposed to letting casual gamers have their own gaming experience? I know some folks that never even beat Super Mario Sunshine because they thought it was too hard.

People are so quick to jump down Nintendo's throat nowadays (and I know you may have your reasons). But really, there are cheat codes and hacks out there in lots of games that can also deprive anyone of the "intended" experience. Those are entirely optional too and can make a game "easier".

When companies like Nintendo can shovel out games like wii fit/music/sports and countless other casual games in which not as much time and effort was invested in the creation of the game as would be on games like Zelda and everything else we grew up playing, AND make even more money on these types of games, whose to say that great games like OoT, Mario64, SSBM, etc. will continue to be developed? There's no guarantee, especially when Miyamoto is no longer around.

Less work and time = more profit
More work and time = less profit

I think it's clear why everyone feels the way they do.

 

[flyinfilipino]

Read the thread. There are various reasons why this is just bad in general for everyone.

Plus, most of those cheats or w/e were hidden, out of the way etc.
---
Now Nintendo players will have that stupid HINT button right there on the **** screen.

"Oh! Having trouble with something?! JUST HIT THE ****ING HINT BUTTON!"

It's all speculation.

And...you don't have to hit the ****ing button.

 

[KosukeKGA]

Yes...Look at the reasons why we're dissapointed in this idea, then.

 

[Darkslash]

Sounds to me like you give up way too easily. If you get stuck in a game all it takes is to keep trying. As you keep playing that same part you will discover the most efficient way to progress and your skill level will increase. You will finally beat that part and feel rewarded. One shouldn't give up whenever something gets too difficult for them as this is ridiculous.

I was 9 at the time i played Jet Force Gemini and back then the Mantis twins were the hardest bosses.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUOgt2qU14k at first it seems easy, but then when the rockets fly thats when it becomes hard. Plus it got easier as i practiced more. But then it looked like you missed my point. Is a Casual is going to spend 30 hours a week playing a game for 5 years? No, which is why i think the help system is going to be great. Of course seeing i took the games which took tremendous skill it could be my end.

 

[flyinfilipino]

There -are- people who WILL hit that **** HINT button every now and then no matter their age.

You cannot deny that. It takes away the game in video game.

*a previous response*

So, what any old casual player does do get their own enjoyment out of their game takes away from your experience?

 

[Overload]

Is a Casual is going to spend 30 hours a week playing a game for 5 years?

I'm pretty sure you don't need to play a game that much to beat a boss, and to answer the question, no a casual isn't going to spend 30 hours a week playing a game for 5 years.
Is a casual going to play non-casual games? Most likely not.

 

[flyinfilipino]

I'm not sure if real "casual" gamers know the difference between "casual" and "non-casual" games, but correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[SuperBowser]

Also, casual gamers tend to play casual games, hence the name casual gamers. They don't play for long periods of time, just every once in a while to relax. Do you think they are going to pick up OoT? Most likely not. Most casual gamers will stay casual gamers. Only a handful here and there will go on to play bigger and better games.

I play casual games and traditional games.

I like how you act like you know Nintendo's business model better than them. They clearly believe they can convince many of the new gamers on the Wii to try a traditional title like Zelda. Considering you don't know the implementation yet (and this feature can most certainly improve Zelda), I think it's ridiculous you are whining they way you are.

 

[KosukeKGA]

Read the thread.

 

[Darkslash]

I'm pretty sure you don't need to play a game that much to beat a boss, and to answer the question, no a casual isn't going to spend 30 hours a week playing a game for 5 years.
Is a casual going to play non-casual games? Most likely not.

Back then Mario was a casual game, Melee(believe it or not) was a casual game, HELL Wii sports is a casual game(no duh) but Melee and Wii sports have leagues with them(wii sports is small but exists). The Hint system is what Nintendo hopefully is the nail in the board that makes the bridge the thing that pulls casuals closer into mainstreaming and then into true gamer status.

Also technically it was 2 bosses.

 

[Bowser King]

It's all speculation.

And...you don't have to hit the ****ing button.

To tell the truth, I'll Always have the urge to hit it if I ever come across a hard game.

Sometimes in games like Phoenix Wright, I'll wish there was a way I could find the answer.
Do I need it? No. I eventually figure it out but with a button like this, what happened could have been completely different.

-Bowser King

 

[GreenKirby]

Read the thread.

Which is all so far hypothetical as we know next to nothing about it.

 

[trueganon]

I would never use anything by that name...ever.

 

[Darkslash]

Sometimes in games like Phoenix Wright, I'll wish there was a way I could find the answer.
Do I need it? No. I eventually figure it out but with a button like this it might have been completely different.

-Bowser King

some times the answer is bluntly obvious, other times it so well hidden that you still can't believe that its the contradicting evidence and then its so obvious but wrong. But then again Phoenix Wright is a casual game in some sense, it uses your deduction skills and brainpower more than your reflexes and hand eye coordination, which Hardcore games mostly use *cough*nomoreheroes*cough* and surprisingly Brain age, which kinda uses both

 

[flyinfilipino]

Sometimes in games like Phoenix Wright, I'll wish there was a way I could find the answer.
Do I need it? No. I eventually figure it out but with a button like this, what happened could have been completely different.

-Bowser King

If you pressed the button or figured it out on your own, wouldn't the same thing have happened either way?

 

[Bowser King]

some times the answer is bluntly obvious, other times it so well hidden that you still can't believe that its the contradicting evidence and then its so obvious but wrong.

I've had all three of those things happen to me

-Bowser King

 

[Overload]

I play casual games and traditional games.

I like how you act like you know Nintendo's business model better than them. They clearly believe they can convince many of the new gamers on the Wii to try a traditional title like Zelda. Considering you don't know the implementation yet (and this feature can most certainly improve Zelda), I think it's ridiculous you are whining they way you are.

I don't claim to know anything. While they probably can convince people drawn in by the Wii to play other games like Zelda, that doesn't mean that's where their focus will be. And I'm not whining I'm just stating what I think could happen.

 

[metaXzero]

I'm pretty sure you don't need to play a game that much to beat a boss, and to answer the question, no a casual isn't going to spend 30 hours a week playing a game for 5 years.
Is a casual going to play non-casual games? Most likely not.

Casual gamer will pick up and play WHAT THEY WANT TO PICK UP TO PLAY. They may see a Zelda game and think "hmm...this might be interesting". They don't *****ing think "Zelda is hardcore game and I won't like it" unless they've already played it.

 

[Overload]

Casual gamer will pick up and play WHAT THEY WANT TO PICK UP TO PLAY. They may see a Zelda game and think "hmm...this might be interesting". They don't *****ing think "Zelda is hardcore game and I won't like it" unless they've already played it.

Why the hostility? Of course I'm just making generalizations here, but I'm guessing most casual gamers only own a Wii. I could be wrong of course, but the Wii appeals to such a wide audience and is fairly inexpensive in comparison to say the PS3 that it would make sense. How many "hardcore" games do you see on the Wii?

Also, I will assume many casual gamers don't have time to play long games like Zelda and want games you can pick up and play for a few minutes any time.

Some casual gamers might feel like they wouldn't be able to complete a game such as Zelda either, and most people who play games like Zelda are people who've been gaming since the early ones and have been fans of the series from some time.

Of course these are all generalizations and assumptions, but I think it makes some sense, however little it may be.

 

[Darkslash]

Some casual gamers might feel like they wouldn't be able to complete a game such as Zelda either, and most people who play games like Zelda are people who've been gaming since the early ones and have been fans of the series from some time.

Which is why the hint system is there. To dispel the thoughts that they can't finish it or beat it. Its actually recently that I've dived into Zelda more rigorously. I still need a FAQ once in a while, but does that make me a Casual? Of course not. The hint system won't also put Gamefaqs out of business since it is a subsidiary of Gamespot. Plus seeing that this could be only on Nintendo games, or Nintendo licensed games, there still is space for Sony and MS, but then again some devs not seen on a Nintendo console see this as a great idea.

 

[Overload]

Which is why the hint system is there. To dispel the thoughts that they can't finish it or beat it. Its actually recently that I've dived into Zelda more rigorously. I still need a FAQ once in a while, but does that make me a Casual? Of course not. The hint system won't also put Gamefaqs out of business since it is a subsidiary of Gamespot. Plus seeing that this could be only on Nintendo games, or Nintendo licensed games, there still is space for Sony and MS, but then again some devs not seen on a Nintendo console see this as a great idea.

While I see where you're coming from, I personally would rather be a casual gamer who picked up the game and tried to get through it on my own for a more rewarding experience, but of course not everyone feels this way.

 

[SuperBowser]

...it's optional.

And you just said that a casual gamer wouldn't pick up a traditional game -_-. Thus, Nintendo is adding a new feature that makes a game more accessible, without compromising the gameplay.

 

[OmegaXXII]

It's optionated indeed, it all depends whether a casual gamer wants to play it traditionally or not, I personally wish they wouldn't use this new method, but again this is just me, being a typical hardcore gamer, I wouldn't forgive myself if I actually skipped a whole entire level without even tyring to play through it, for me that would definetly be a boring and akward experience.

 

[Bowser King]

If you pressed the button or figured it out on your own, wouldn't the same thing have happened either way?

There's a huge difference between pressing a stupid button and doing it by myself.
It feels so much better knowing I completed the game/level by myself without help.
Plus, I payed for the game so I could play it not so I could watch all the scene's.

-Bowser King

 

[Lore]

so now they are discouraging actual thinking when you get stuck and instead making a button you can press whenever you get stuck, which means you will never improve and will be forced to keep using it on the harder levels? Which would also mean you would stop enjoying it at that point and the game would simply be like busy work which bores you partway through the video and makes you never want to finish the game? Which would ALSO mean the average casual gamer who does that would not want to waste his money on more of the 'boring' games in that series or on that console, causing nintendo to lose money every time they release another one of these?

Absurd. Nintendo would never do that.

*reads article again*

...Once again, I lose faith in Nintendo as a company. Good thing I have my pc, which is great for someone who actually likes games. ^_^

 

[Darkslash]

...Once again, I lose faith in Nintendo as a company. Good thing I have my pc, which is great for someone who actually likes games. ^_^

Which is why P.C Devs are also showing interest in this system

 

[GreenKirby]

so now they are discouraging actual thinking when you get stuck and instead making a button you can press whenever you get stuck, which means you will never improve and will be forced to keep using it on the harder levels? Which would also mean you would stop enjoying it at that point and the game would simply be like busy work which bores you partway through the video and makes you never want to finish the game? Which would ALSO mean the average casual gamer who does that would not want to waste his money on more of the 'boring' games in that series or on that console, causing nintendo to lose money every time they release another one of these?

Absurd. Nintendo would never do that.

*reads article again*

...Once again, I lose faith in Nintendo as a company. Good thing I have my pc, which is great for someone who actually likes games. ^_^

So I guess you never asked for/received help on stuff like homework, driving, or even walking.

Which is why P.C Devs are also showing interest in this system

And notice how they seem to be more supportive of it well, even if it just slightly. lol

 

[E.G.G.M.A.N.]

So I guess you never asked for/received help on stuff like homework, driving, or even walking.





And notice how they seem to be more supportive of it well, even if it just slightly. lol

You still have to do it yourself though, you can't just say "crap, I'm sick of homework" and fast forward through so it's magically all done (now there's something I wouldn't mind once in a while).

 

[Darkslash]

You still have to do it yourself though, you can't just say "crap, I'm sick of homework" and fast forward through so it's magically all done (now there's something I wouldn't mind once in a while).

The thing is you can't save the game if you use Kind code, so you DO have to do it eventually, like homework,walking ect. Of course casuals being the blissful people they are see some thing cool in Kind code and will hopefully be motivated to do it themselves. Plus Kind code can show the easiest route in a game but then will up the curiosity of a player to check out the harder routes

EXAMPLE

2 routes are shown in a Call of duty game. Kind code shows the easiest route. You go through there and done. 2nd play though comes and the casual will want to check out the other route. The casual then finds a better weapon than the one s/he used previously. If all goes well the casual will then start checking out alternative routes that where seen but not walked into later ingame. Secrets, better weapons and grenades not found on the first route will be used.

 

[Firus]

Why do you ignore this is optional?

Why do you ignore the fact that we all DON'T CARE that it's optional? Haven't I already countered this argument?

I don't know why but when Nintendo does it every one cries and whines. When Sony or MS does it every one praises them. The thing will be *cues broken record* optional. It won't get past certain parts with out the user doing them. Its really a hint system. Telling them to "push Block A to hole A" I really don't know what the big fuss is about. If this is going to solve some one's Block fine with me. It won't **** up the game.

Why do people insist on this...

When Sony and Microsoft implement a system like this, I'm going to be JUST as pissed. You can't say "You guys are complaining now but when Sony and Microsoft do it you won't be! You're such hypocrites!" You can't predict the future and then blame us for your predictions.

Oh, and aside from some parts of some games, telling the person to do it is almost as bad as doing it for you.

And it's not like the Nintendo 'hardcore 'buys anything since the N64 other than Mario or Zleda anyway. lol

Are you EVER going to stop saying this? Jesus...

I am probably what would be considered the Nintendo 'hardcore' and I've bought plenty of things besides Mario and Zelda since the N64.

Assumptions for the epic fail. Especially when you use the same assumption everywhere without any sort of evidence other than you're just convinced we're close-minded.

Not to mention it's not really relevant to this topic.

This is aimed at casuals. Casuals don't know any thing about sites like IGN,GameFaqs or Gameradar. The Hint system will allow them to not get frustrated, break a T.V and leave gaming.

IF YOU CAN'T FIGURE OUT HOW TO GOOGLE THINGS, IT'S YOUR OWN GOD**** FAULT.

I swear, either casuals are just made out to be stupider than they are, or someone with an IQ of 20 is more competent than them.

Feel free to chew me out for this, but why are some people opposed to letting casual gamers have their own gaming experience? I know some folks that never even beat Super Mario Sunshine because they thought it was too hard.

Um...because in order for them to have their own experience, they have to ruin gaming?

Maybe if they actually attempted to enjoy the media rather than be determined to have it their way, they could HAVE their own experience without anyone complaining.

People are so quick to jump down Nintendo's throat nowadays (and I know you may have your reasons). But really, there are cheat codes and hacks out there in lots of games that can also deprive anyone of the "intended" experience. Those are entirely optional too and can make a game "easier".

Yeah, and those cheat codes and hacks are not only not endorsed by Nintendo, but HIGHLY DISCOURAGED, to the point of constantly updating the Wii to destroy Homebrew and AR.

I'm not sure if real "casual" gamers know the difference between "casual" and "non-casual" games, but correct me if I'm wrong.

No, they obviously don't go to the store and say "That game is casual! I want it!", but just as I might be attracted to a Metroid game, they are attracted to casual games. Because those are the kinds of games they enjoy.

2 routes are shown in a Call of duty game. Kind code shows the easiest route. You go through there and done. 2nd play though comes and the casual will want to check out the other route. The casual then finds a better weapon than the one s/he used previously. If all goes well the casual will then start checking out alternative routes that where seen but not walked into later ingame. Secrets, better weapons and grenades not found on the first route will be used.

Who's to say casuals will bother to replay a game, and even if they do, who's to say they'll search for other paths?

 

[GreenKirby]

Are you EVER going to stop saying this? Jesus...

I am probably what would be considered the Nintendo 'hardcore' and I've bought plenty of things besides Mario and Zelda since the N64.

Assumptions for the epic fail. Especially when you use the same assumption everywhere without any sort of evidence other than you're just convinced we're close-minded.

Not to mention it's not really relevant to this topic.

I agree it's irrelevant but it's still true even if YOU yourself don't it. lol

And there's evidence due to the fact that Mario and Zelda topics usually get more posts than other topics in many video game forums.

Oh BTW,

Assumptions for the epic fail.

I swear, either casuals are just made out to be stupider than they are, or someone with an IQ of 20 is more competent than them.

Um...because in order for them to have their own experience, they have to ruin gaming?

Maybe if they actually attempted to enjoy the media rather than be determined to have it their way, they could HAVE their own experience without anyone complaining.

Hypocrisy is an ugly little thing, ain't it? HAHA!

 

[flyinfilipino]

Why do you ignore the fact that we all DON'T CARE that it's optional? Haven't I already countered this argument?

So you feel like you might be tempted to use the hint? No offense, but that just sounds like a personal problem. I still don't understand how the extra "effort" to look up the solution on the Internet somewhere is somehow "better" than getting the hint in the game.

Assumptions for the epic fail. Especially when you use the same assumption everywhere without any sort of evidence other than you're just convinced we're close-minded.

I swear, either casuals are just made out to be stupider than they are, or someone with an IQ of 20 is more competent than them.

Assumptions...?

Maybe if they actually attempted to enjoy the media rather than be determined to have it their way, they could HAVE their own experience without anyone complaining.

The point is that they attempted and couldn't get any further. There's no enjoyment in it anymore, and that's the point of this hint system. If casuals lose interest in one kind of game because they can't complete it, then they won't be buying anymore of that kind of game. If you acknowledge the fact that they'll get the same result by looking up answers on the Internet, then why are you determined to keep this from them? Because you'll be tempted to use it too? Don't forget that the Internet is also available for you whenever you need it.

Yeah, and those cheat codes and hacks are not only not endorsed by Nintendo, but HIGHLY DISCOURAGED, to the point of constantly updating the Wii to destroy Homebrew and AR.

I was talking about some cheat codes that are intentionally put into some games to make certain things easier if you choose to use them, but I guess this is irrelevant to the subject.

No, they obviously don't go to the store and say "That game is casual! I want it!", but just as I might be attracted to a Metroid game, they are attracted to casual games. Because those are the kinds of games they enjoy.

Sometimes casual gamers will just pick up whatever they see. They might make uninformed decisions. They might not know the difference.

Who's to say casuals will bother to replay a game, and even if they do, who's to say they'll search for other paths?

They could. You don't have to assume that they won't.

 

[GreenKirby]

Oh don't you get the memo, FlyingFilipino?

Assuming that the hardcore does something stupid is wrong and evil.

Yet assuming casuals does something stupid is okay and holy. After all, it's not mothers and little children want to have fun playing games.

Gaming: IS SERIOUS BUSINESS!

(I know I shouldn't be enjoying this too much, but it's just so **** funny)

 

[Darkslash]

Who's to say casuals will bother to replay a game, and even if they do, who's to say they'll search for other paths?

Who's to say they will replay with a game? I secretly "studied" the casuals at my school, which is about 98%. They play games becuase they're fun, and easy. That's why games like Guitar Hero/Rock Band, Smash Bros., Pokemon and the 2d Mario's are fun. They're simple, yet fun. Now when you dive deeper into them, that's when their true colors show. The Hint system is described as to help that Casual into the deeper parts and not skim the surface, which is all they do with mini game shovel ware. The surface looks fun but on the deeper side, its really a repetitive action with the mini games. Maybe that's what defines a hardcore gamer. A person who can dive into a game and see for what it really is. Of course Hardcore's aren't really going to need this system, so its no harm to us. Because if we can analyze the game there's going to be no need for a hint system for us.

 

[Zodiac]

I disagree. Nintendo has sucked for quite some time now. At least a year imo.

On Topic: Hopefully including this will mean that they'll be ok with making some harder puzzles. I loved TP but it was almost always easy, significantly more so than WW or OoT.

yup. this is true, they may say they care about the hardcore crowd but that's bull ****, Nintendo has sucked since they released the wii, and slowly started phasing out hardcore gamers. miyamoto said he was making zelda more casual at last e3. zelda, the most hardcore. or once the most hardcore nintendo had to offer.

They used to be able to make a perfect blanace between casual and hardcore... And for the last time..WHY DON'T THEY JUST GIVE YOU DIFFICULTY LEVELS TO CHOOSE FROM

 

[The Halloween Captain]

Whether or not this is a good idea is entirely dependent on the level of difficulty of the next Zelda game and the self-control (or lack thereof) of "hardcore gamers." Nintendo was not ever able to strike a balance between hardcore and casual; their old games were simply uncompletable for half the fans (OoT, for example, was impossible without a strategy guide. I know, I've tried). And choosing difficulty levels is kinda offensive in itself, as it's a cheap way to keep dumbed down puzzles and offer a supposedly better game for hardcore gamers by simply making enemies of greater health, power, and number.

However, difficulty levels in Twilight Princess would have been good. The puzzles were already quite fun, and didn't need to be any tougher. Though the enemies were a little too easy.

My biggest criticism of this is the game will most likely be a Zelda one (as indicated by the patent). I would greatly prefer such a system to be implemented in Pokemon, not for puzzles, but for Pokemon locations and capture. A walkthrough for capturing Mesprit an Azelf would have been useful, as it is always hard to tell when a Pokemon becomes "too weak" to be easily captured.

The system is actually quite brilliant. Don't complain about a free, detailed, in-game video walkthrough that is devoid of spoilers.

EDIT: What is it that "hardcore" gamers want anyway? Tougher games? That is the point of implementing such a system. Nintendo cannot make more difficult games without losing a large portion of it's fanbase until it AT LEAST implements some form of hint system.

 

[GreenKirby]

yup. this is true, they may say they care about the hardcore crowd but that's bull ****, Nintendo has sucked since they released the wii, and slowly started phasing out hardcore gamers. miyamoto said he was making zelda more casual at last e3. zelda, the most hardcore. or once the most hardcore nintendo had to offer.

They used to be able to make a perfect blanace between casual and hardcore... And for the last time..WHY DON'T THEY JUST GIVE YOU DIFFICULTY LEVELS TO CHOOSE FROM

Zelda... seriously you think that's hardcore?

Compared to other RPGs the Zelda series is butt easy. Fire Emblem is usually harder than Zelda. But since the Nintendo 'hardcore' never play anything other than Zelda, I can't say I'm surprised.

 

[The Halloween Captain]

Zelda... seriously you think that's hardcore?

Compared to other RPGs the Zelda series is butt easy. Fire Emblem is usually harder than Zelda. But since the Nintendo 'hardcore' never play anything other than Zelda, I can't say I'm surprised.

Zelda isn't an RPG.