Kind Code: Nintendo's way of putting GameFAQs out of business since 2009

[Frames]

nobody quits games these days because they're hard, which is why i see this as a dumb feature

games these days are so easy already the difficulty isnt the problem its keeping the player entertained

every game i quit was because i just got bored of it, i never had the desire to finish it, not that it was too hard that i became frustrated

one great example was ffx when i got to the final boss i stopped playing, you would assume that it was because it was too hard but i just got bored lol a year later i went back picked up the game and beat it first try no problem

on a serious note, i believe this feature is bad for games because it fosters the growing split between "casual" gamers and "hardcore" gamers, really its just the same people just playing games the only real difference is that some people play games more than others

by fostering the growth of this split this will only hurt the video game community in the long run, game developers these days are trying to hard to appeal to both sides they need to just focus on making a great game and the right people will play it if its too hard for some oh well, but a developer should never sacrifice quality just to make a few extra bucks

 

[Darkslash]

My biggest criticism of this is the game will most likely be a Zelda one (as indicated by the patent). I would greatly prefer such a system to be implemented in Pokemon, not for puzzles, but for Pokemon locations and capture. A walkthrough for capturing Mesprit an Azelf would have been useful, as it is always hard to tell when a Pokemon becomes "too weak" to be easily captured.

Catch rate and Pokeball type have to do with it. Also any pokemon you seen will have a location in the pokedex. Flashing areas are Pokemon locations

 

[The Halloween Captain]

Catch rate and Pokeball type have to do with it. Also any pokemon you seen will have a location in the pokedex. Flashing areas are Pokemon locations

I know that, but it gives me a headache trying to figure out when a pokemon should only be weakened to "yellow" status w/ a sleep condition versus when it should be weakened all the way to red. I have had very annoying battles in Colloseum because I weakened a legendary too much prior to capture.

 

[metaXzero]

nobody quits games these days because they're hard, which is why i see this as a dumb feature

games these days are so easy already the difficulty isnt the problem its keeping the player entertained

every game i quit was because i just got bored of it, i never had the desire to finish it, not that it was too hard that i became frustrated

one great example was ffx when i got to the final boss i stopped playing, you would assume that it was because it was too hard but i just got bored lol a year later i went back picked up the game and beat it first try no problem

on a serious note, i believe this feature is bad for games because it fosters the growing split between "casual" gamers and "hardcore" gamers, really its just the same people just playing games the only real difference is that some people play games more than others

by fostering the growth of this split this will only hurt the video game community in the long run, game developers these days are trying to hard to appeal to both sides they need to just focus on making a great game and the right people will play it if its too hard for some oh well, but a developer should never sacrifice quality just to make a few extra bucks

No HARDCORE (or core) gamers quit games because they get too difficult. Casuals are a different story.

And how would this "sacrifice quality". It seems to actually encourage higher quality by having an alternative way to play instead of dumbing down the main experience (like they do now).

And someone answer this? HOW does this hurt the experience for hardcore/core gamers?

 

[Oracle]

nobody quits games these days because they're hard, which is why i see this as a dumb feature

games these days are so easy already the difficulty isnt the problem its keeping the player entertained

every game i quit was because i just got bored of it, i never had the desire to finish it, not that it was too hard that i became frustrated

one great example was ffx when i got to the final boss i stopped playing, you would assume that it was because it was too hard but i just got bored lol a year later i went back picked up the game and beat it first try no problem

on a serious note, i believe this feature is bad for games because it fosters the growing split between "casual" gamers and "hardcore" gamers, really its just the same people just playing games the only real difference is that some people play games more than others

by fostering the growth of this split this will only hurt the video game community in the long run, game developers these days are trying to hard to appeal to both sides they need to just focus on making a great game and the right people will play it if its too hard for some oh well, but a developer should never sacrifice quality just to make a few extra bucks

Actually, I see a lot of people quitting games because they are hard.They are mostly children, and therefore, the majority of people who play nintendo games.

What I said earlier still stands. This gives the children a mentality of "i dont have to work hard at this because I can just skip it" rather than "i'll have to try hard to beat this game"
Furthermore, this mentality gets the kids hooked on videogames and discourages them from doing things outside of video games, such as being social, playing sports, etc., that are beneficial to their growth. With no social skills, they will never be able to meet people or will have trouble making friends. The purpose of having a child play sports is to let him have fun while being healthy and exercising.
I'd rant some more, but I don't feel like it.

No HARDCORE (or core) gamers quit games because they get too difficult. Casuals are a different story.

And how would this "sacrifice quality". It seems to actually encourage higher quality by having an alternative way to play instead of dumbing down the main experience (like they do now).

And someone answer this? HOW does this hurt the experience for hardcore/core gamers?

It gives gaming a terrible name, especially to the people who don't take the time to learn anything about it and are ignnorant ******* aka the majority of the people.

That option shouldn't be there anyways. If you can't do something, you don't just skip it. You can go find help on the internet or from a friend, but skipping it is downright lazy.

 

[metaXzero]

Actually, I see a lot of people quitting games because they are hard.They are mostly children, and therefore, the majority of people who play nintendo games.

What I said earlier still stands. This gives the children a mentality of "i dont have to work hard at this because I can just skip it" rather than "i'll have to try hard to beat this game"
Furthermore, this mentality gets the kids hooked on videogames and discourages them from doing things outside of video games, such as being social, playing sports, etc., that are beneficial to their growth. With no social skills, they will never be able to meet people or will have trouble making friends. The purpose of having a child play sports is to let him have fun while being healthy and exercising.
I'd rant some more, but I don't feel like it.

It gives gaming a terrible name, especially to the people who don't take the time to learn anything about it and are ignnorant ******* aka the majority of the people.

That option shouldn't be there anyways. If you can't do something, you don't just skip it. You can go find help on the internet or from a friend, but skipping it is downright lazy.

How it effects people outside of video games doesn't matter to the industry. What matters is getting people into games and keeping them happy instead of shooing them away.

And I REALLY don't see the difference between having a friend help you/looking up the answers on the Internet versus having a hint system/walkthrough built in to the game. The heck makes it so different from?

 

[Oracle]

How it effects people outside of video games doesn't matter to the industry. What matters is getting people into games and keeping them happy instead of shooing them away.

Actually playing the game doesn't matter to them either.

And I REALLY don't see the difference between having a friend help you/looking up the answers on the Internet versus having a hint system/walkthrough built in to the game. The heck makes it so different from?

The difference being that you can let the game play itself.

 

[The Halloween Captain]

Actually, I see a lot of people quitting games because they are hard.They are mostly children, and therefore, the majority of people who play nintendo games.

What I said earlier still stands. This gives the children a mentality of "i dont have to work hard at this because I can just skip it" rather than "i'll have to try hard to beat this game"
Furthermore, this mentality gets the kids hooked on videogames and discourages them from doing things outside of video games, such as being social, playing sports, etc., that are beneficial to their growth. With no social skills, they will never be able to meet people or will have trouble making friends. The purpose of having a child play sports is to let him have fun while being healthy and exercising.
I'd rant some more, but I don't feel like it.

It gives gaming a terrible name, especially to the people who don't take the time to learn anything about it and are ignnorant ******* aka the majority of the people.

That option shouldn't be there anyways. If you can't do something, you don't just skip it. You can go find help on the internet or from a friend, but skipping it is downright lazy.

You can't skip anything. There's a checkpoint system in place so that you can't save "skipped" sessions and can only progress so far in a game's cutscenes before the game stops you. You can only use the hint system for hints and short, unsaved skips at best.

It gives gaming a terrible name ?, especially to the people who don't take the time to learn anything about it and are ignnorant ******* aka the majority of the people. Explain how this gives gaming a bad name. You do realize the point of gaming is to have fun, and nothing more, right?

 

[Darkslash]

The difference being that you can let the game play itself.

You also forgot the part that the game will refuse to save its self if the system is used. Miyamoto *hopefully* knows that if the system is here no one would play the game, so he made it that if the system is used the game will refuse to save so that the player will learn what to do and they will play it them selves to advance into the game. All auto save checkpoints are gone and also rooms assessing a save point and blocked off and unusable.

 

[Firus]

I agree it's irrelevant but it's still true even if YOU yourself don't it. lol

And there's evidence due to the fact that Mario and Zelda topics usually get more posts than other topics in many video game forums.

Just because they're more popular doesn't mean that's all people play.

Oh BTW,

Hypocrisy is an ugly little thing, ain't it? HAHA!

It would be if that were actually hypocricy. From what people in this thread are saying, casuals are completely incompetent since apparently they don't know about GameFAQs and so it's not an option to them. When they can Google it. I'm saying either they're right or they're wrong, and casuals really aren't all that stupid and thus don't need the systems. It's logical deduction, not assumption.

So you feel like you might be tempted to use the hint? No offense, but that just sounds like a personal problem. I still don't understand how the extra "effort" to look up the solution on the Internet somewhere is somehow "better" than getting the hint in the game.

*Sigh* Didn't I already use an analogy here?

Oh don't you get the memo, FlyingFilipino?

Assuming that the hardcore does something stupid is wrong and evil.

Yet assuming casuals does something stupid is okay and holy. After all, it's not mothers and little children want to have fun playing games.

Gaming: IS SERIOUS BUSINESS!

(I know I shouldn't be enjoying this too much, but it's just so **** funny)

Why do people always put words in my mouth...?

And how would this "sacrifice quality". It seems to actually encourage higher quality by having an alternative way to play instead of dumbing down the main experience (like they do now).

You're expecting too much of Nintendo. They haven't shown affection for the hardcore recently, don't expect this hint system to show otherwise. Once they actually live up to that, I'll buy it.

How it effects people outside of video games doesn't matter to the industry. What matters is getting people into games and keeping them happy instead of shooing them away.

To the industry. I don't give a rat's *** about keeping casual gamers in gaming, because as far as I've seen, ever since they came into the game, Nintendo's been a worse company -- in my opinion, anyways.

Also, considering they're selling video games, if the rest of the world thinks they're evil and bad, isn't that bad for business? You know, just a little bit?

 

[Mr. Rogu]

wow nintendo, way to lower yourselves even more wth this kind code thing.

"hey i have an idea" nintendo
"what" a random guy
"i should make a gameplay system where you now have the option to ruin the games purpose of challenge and figureing things out" nintendo
"sounds great" a random guy
"now kids growing up wont learn how to solve things on their own and become a smarter person, everybody wins" nintendo
"wait, what about the hardcore audience" a random guy
"f*** them, i only care about 5 year olds now" nintendo
" whatever" a random guy


even if it is optional, its still retarted, without a challenge, theres no point in playing the game

 

[The Halloween Captain]

Wow. There are a lot of stubborn angry people on the internet. I'm glad I don't care whether or not games have a hint system, because now me and Darkslash will be able to enjoy the next Zelda game, while you guys complain on the internet about the hint system you never use. Hooray for not caring!

 

[Mr. Rogu]

Wow. There are a lot of stubborn angry people on the internet. I'm glad I don't care whether or not games have a hint system, because now me and Darkslash will be able to enjoy the next Zelda game, while you guys complain on the internet about the hint system you never use. Hooray for not caring!

i personally dont really care, i just wont use it but im just trying to make a point.

 

[Firus]

Wow. There are a lot of stubborn angry people on the internet. I'm glad I don't care whether or not games have a hint system, because now me and Darkslash will be able to enjoy the next Zelda game, while you guys complain on the internet about the hint system you never use. Hooray for not caring!

Just because the hint system upsets us, doesn't mean we won't be able to enjoy the game just because of that.

Also, is the concept of the mere principle of something offending someone foreign to all of you supporters of this?

 

[The Halloween Captain]

Just because the hint system upsets us, doesn't mean we won't be able to enjoy the game just because of that.

Also, is the concept of the mere principle of something offending someone foreign to all of you supporters of this?

Yeah, pretty much. To be offended by the mere presense of something is actually a desire to limit the freedoms of others in an odd sense.

 

[flyinfilipino]

It would be if that were actually hypocricy. From what people in this thread are saying, casuals are completely incompetent since apparently they don't know about GameFAQs and so it's not an option to them. When they can Google it. I'm saying either they're right or they're wrong, and casuals really aren't all that stupid and thus don't need the systems. It's logical deduction, not assumption.

But some casuals might need the system to get past things. I know a lot of friends that gave up on games because they couldn't figure them out.

I'm sure I would occasionally succumb to it, yes, I have said that. It's still not the issue. It's the principle of the thing. It demeans gaming to have a built-in walkthrough.

Apparently (I missed the detail too), the game won't even let you save if you use the hint system. Does that change anything for you?

Yeah, they pick up what they see that looks fun. And to a lot of casuals, games people consider "casual" are generally the ones they like. Wii Fit didn't get popular because people picked a game out of a pile on a whim.

Well, the "Wii" in the title makes it sound like Wii Sports, which everyone's played. What if some kid decides to go into a store and just pick up a Zelda game just because they've heard of it?

If they can't be bothered to beat the game once by themselves why would they explore it further? I don't see people who don't put in the effort to beat a game wanting to go further. It just seems illogical.

Like some people have said, apparently you still actually do have to beat the game yourself. Now knowing that, can you explain to all of us why it's so much worse than looking things up on the Internet?

 

[Firus]

Yeah, pretty much. To be offended by the mere presense of something is actually a desire to limit the freedoms of others in an odd sense.

I could present to you so many examples where this is just...WRONG.

In a VERY roundabout way, it is. If I actually were offended by it because I had a desire to limit others' freedoms, it would be. But I'm not.

But some casuals might need the system to get past things. I know a lot of friends that gave up on games because they couldn't figure them out.

Why is YouTube or GameFAQs any different from the hint system?

Apparently (I missed the detail too), the game won't even let you save if you use the hint system. Does that change anything for you?

It makes it better than it was. But it still changes gaming to a point I dislike.

Well, the "Wii" in the title makes it sound like Wii Sports, which everyone's played. What if some kid decides to go into a store and just pick up a Zelda game just because they've heard of it?

I didn't say they're ONLY attracted to casual games. They're just attracted MOSTLY to casual games, or more popular games -- which is why Nintendo's working to semi-casualize them.

Like some people have said, apparently you still actually do have to beat the game yourself. Now knowing that, can you explain to all of us why it's so much worse than looking things up on the Internet?

Because it discourages thinking. You CAN go on the internet, but it takes much more effort to get there. You generally have to at least get up and go to your computer first. Now you don't even have to move from your seat, you can just push a button. It encourages the laziness all-around that's conquering society today.

 

[Oracle]

You can't skip anything. There's a checkpoint system in place so that you can't save "skipped" sessions and can only progress so far in a game's cutscenes before the game stops you. You can only use the hint system for hints and short, unsaved skips at best.

I may be a tad confused. I'm arguing against the system that lets you save, let the game play itself so you see how you are supposed to do everything (which therefore takes all of the challenge out of the game, as well as taking away effort to actually try hard at something),

Explain how this gives gaming a bad name. You do realize the point of gaming is to have fun, and nothing more, right?

People would respect gaming less if they realized you could press a button and win.
Which is what they would perceive.

You also forgot the part that the game will refuse to save its self if the system is used. Miyamoto *hopefully* knows that if the system is here no one would play the game, so he made it that if the system is used the game will refuse to save so that the player will learn what to do and they will play it them selves to advance into the game. All auto save checkpoints are gone and also rooms assessing a save point and blocked off and unusable.

Whether or not you save is irrelevant. You will basically win the game and get all of the rewards of the game without playing. No one would play after using the walk through to figure out the game because that takes the surprise away. I've already seen the beautiful cut scenes, I know this plot twist, I know how it ends. Why should I play?

 

[Darkslash]

People would respect gaming less if they realized you could press a button and win.
Which is what they would perceive.

Tactical nukes FTW!

 

[GreenKirby]

People would respect gaming less if they realized you could press a button and win.
Which is what they would perceive.

Gaming is respected?

 

[flyinfilipino]

Why is YouTube or GameFAQs any different from the hint system?

Because it discourages thinking. You CAN go on the internet, but it takes much more effort to get there. You generally have to at least get up and go to your computer first. Now you don't even have to move from your seat, you can just push a button. It encourages the laziness all-around that's conquering society today.

Well, you answered your own question there. It takes much more effort and thinking to go on the Internet to get an answer? That's barely arguable. Bringing the laziness of society into this is...not really helping either, honestly.

 

[SuperBowser]

I'm tired of how puzzles are presented in Zelda. Nintendo give the solution without you having to think much anyway. I didn't even finish Twilight Princess because the dungeons felt like such a chore. At least with the hint system, the game might let me attempt the puzzle on my own and THEN think about help.

Regardless of the casual talk, I'm glad this system is coming.

 

[Oracle]

Gaming is respected?

Notice less

 

[GreenKirby]

Gaming HAD respect?

 

[Darkslash]

Gaming HAD respect?

True. Its been used as a scapegoat too much and people are vague on the definition of a video game. Wii Fit, despite what negative comments you say, is a video game. But people buy it becuase they don't think it is one. People blame shootings and murders on GTA and w/e FPS they can think off.

 

[Firus]

Well, you answered your own question there. It takes much more effort and thinking to go on the Internet to get an answer? That's barely arguable.

At least you have to get off your ***. I didn't say it'll be a workout, I just said it will take much more effort. Because compared to sitting on your *** and pressing a button, getting up, going on your computer, and looking up the game on GameFAQs takes much more effort.

Bringing the laziness of society into this is...not really helping either, honestly.

Whatever. It doesn't matter. That's not my issue with it anyways. You're the one that brought up GameFAQs, and again, there's a difference between the game companies themselves putting a strong hint system in a game and some random people putting up FAQs on a website. It's the principle of the thing -- and no, I'm not just against the principle to impose on everyone's freedom.

Also, going back to your point about built-in game passwords, codes, etc, they weren't a blatantly obvious GIVEN feature. You had to either figure it out yourself, ask someone you knew, or look it up. There's your difference. Most of the people who figured them out didn't use them to cheat anyways. I had beaten Sonic 1 before I started using Level Select, I just like using Level Select so I can play the Final Zone when I feel like it.

It almost makes the entire game feel useless. Why take the time out to figure out the puzzles if the game company intended for you to take the easy way out at least once? I would do it anyways, but it...it's like the game companies are saying "We created these puzzles for you, but it's okay if you just want to ignore them and cheat through the game." You'd think the devs would have a problem with that, why bother with the puzzles in the first place?

Not to mention that this will probably hurt me personally at some point. You can go on about how it's my fault, but having a button right there for me to press is going to be bad. I have little enough willpower that if I'm stuck on a puzzle, I'll be too apt to just click the button -- whereas normally, there are enough obstacles in the way that I can't just click on a button on a whim. I expect you to come back with "have self-control" or "have willpower" or "that's your fault", but I really don't give a crap what you say about that matter. It does affect me. It affects all of us. I'm sure all of us, whether we say we will or not, will succumb and hit that stupid button and get screwed. At least most of us.

I would say it doesn't matter, since I'm not even sure if I'll get Nintendo's next console, but it does because the principle still annoys me. At the moment, I can still defend gaming by saying that there are puzzles, strategies, etc. that you have to figure out in video games, so it takes an extent of intellect to play and it's not just a lazy man/woman's hobby. When the puzzles and strategies don't have to be figured out yourself, not really much I can do to defend gaming, is there? Gaming isn't going to be accepted necessarily without this system, and when it is accepted, it probably won't be in my lifetime. But I want gaming to be accepted someday instead of being frowned upon. And I don't just want the Wii Fits of the world to be okay in the general eye.

 

[GreenKirby]

We're complaining about laziness when all we do to play video games is to sit on your ***?

 

[Firus]

We're complaining about laziness when all we do to play video games is to sit on your ***?

Ugh, I'm not going to bother with an argument over this with you. If you want to continue this via PM or something, fine, but it's not relevant to the topic and I really don't need to waste any more time trying to explain this.

 

[Mr. Rogu]

wait i thought this debate is about nintendos easy way out system, not laziness

 

[BloodyPuppy]

We're complaining about laziness when all we do to play video games is to sit on your ***?

Just because it's physically not difficult doesn't mean it can't be difficult.

 

[Firus]

wait i thought this debate is about nintendos easy way out system, not laziness

Exactly, that's why I said I wasn't going to bother debating it here.

Just because it's physically not difficult doesn't mean it can't be difficult.

Exactly my point.

 

[GreenKirby]

Ugh, I'm not going to bother with an argument over this with you. If you want to continue this via PM or something, fine, but it's not relevant to the topic and I really don't need to waste any more time trying to explain this.

OK my love, I'll await are email sex. :D

 

[flyinfilipino]

It almost makes the entire game feel useless. Why take the time out to figure out the puzzles if the game company intended for you to take the easy way out at least once? I would do it anyways, but it...it's like the game companies are saying "We created these puzzles for you, but it's okay if you just want to ignore them and cheat through the game." You'd think the devs would have a problem with that, why bother with the puzzles in the first place?

I understand why you're against the idea, and I'm sure I'll never be able to convince that away. I'm not going to tell you that you need more willpower or anything like that. Where are you getting the idea that Nintendo/whoever absolutely intends for you to use the hint system at some point? That defeats the notion that it's supposed to be optional, which they have said they are going for. If you can't figure out the problem at all and hit a dead end, you're probably going to use an outside source anyway. I just don't understand why you're quick to assume that they're trying to make you use this system. It's not meant for you.

 

[Firus]

I understand why you're against the idea, and I'm sure I'll never be able to convince that away. I'm not going to tell you that you need more willpower or anything like that.

So you feel like you might be tempted to use the hint? No offense, but that just sounds like a personal problem.

This is why. I thought you were going to say that it's just a personal problem and not really a legitimate complaint about the system, or something. Sorry for making the assumption, sometimes I just feel like preemptively defending my points when I can see an argument being made against them/

Where are you getting the idea that Nintendo/whoever absolutely intends for you to use the hint system at some point? That defeats the notion that it's supposed to be optional, which they have said they are going for. If you can't figure out the problem at all and hit a dead end, you're probably going to use an outside source anyway. I just don't understand why you're quick to assume that they're trying to make you use this system. It's not meant for you.

They wouldn't implement if they didn't expect it to be used, correct? Even though it's likely aimed at the casual gamers, hardcore gamers like me run into dead ends at times too. It's not really a stretch to think that they might expect me to use the system too. Though they probably don't really care anyways -- they're a business, and as far as consumers go I'm not really that big of a deal, nor are hardcore gamers in general. I'm not complaining or anything (although I'm not happy about it), it's just the truth.

 

[flyinfilipino]

They wouldn't implement if they didn't expect it to be used, correct? Even though it's likely aimed at the casual gamers, hardcore gamers like me run into dead ends at times too. It's not really a stretch to think that they might expect me to use the system too. Though they probably don't really care anyways -- they're a business, and as far as consumers go I'm not really that big of a deal, nor are hardcore gamers in general. I'm not complaining or anything (although I'm not happy about it), it's just the truth.

Oh, well I thought you meant they'd make some sort of impossible puzzle or something that requires the hint system to be used, just to spite you. That sounds pretty silly, now that I think about it. Anywho, at least it'll always be there for you (maybe?) if they do decide to roll out the harder games. And so will Gamefaqs.

 

[The Halloween Captain]

Oh, well I thought you meant they'd make some sort of impossible puzzle or something that requires the hint system to be used, just to spite you. That sounds pretty silly, now that I think about it. Anywho, at least it'll always be there for you (maybe?) if they do decide to roll out the harder games. And so will Gamefaqs.

Twilight Princess. Wolf Link trying to pick up the Master sword by moving statues to their original position. Not impossiblke, but the kind of thing that can get annoying, detract from the gameplay, and could be easily solved with a hint system.

Personally, any puzzle that gets frusterating detracts from the game. I don't want to be stuck in a room because I don't understand some minor architechtural detail I missed, no matter how puzzle-oriented the game is. If this takes the pain out of the annoying "find everything" sidequests or helps me with "You can do that?" puzzles, It would be nice to have the choice of taking a hint.

For example, the first time I got the claw-shot in the TP water temple, I didn't know it worked on vines or those flying desert plants; I thought it just worked on those gold and red pads. I would have liked the option to recieve a hint rather than be forced on the internet for a minor detail.