the grownups are talking honey, please go outside and play in traffic.
(don't post crap like that in this room)
-
Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
Kid stabs bully to death. Gets off with no charges
- Thread starter GreenKirby
- Start date
- Status
(don't post crap like that in this room)
Claire Diviner
President
That little punk was the bully? Suddenly, I get the feeling that nothing of high value was lost... but that's just my apathy. *flame shield up*
- Joined
- Jun 8, 2009
- Messages
- 9,609
- 3DS FC
- 3136-6583-3704
It's weird, he's the typical douche that you think to yourself in high school "If he died, I wouldn't mind".
I guess it's not that I mind so much as someone killed (A stupid person, but person nonetheless) someone, via STABBING them over 10 times, and isn't in trouble. I just don't see how you can possibly not stop cutting up another person after the first cries and screams come out of their mouth. Shoulda just cut the *****es face, teach him a lesson. THAT's something I can get behind. Teach him a lesson, not kill him.
I guess it's not that I mind so much as someone killed (A stupid person, but person nonetheless) someone, via STABBING them over 10 times, and isn't in trouble. I just don't see how you can possibly not stop cutting up another person after the first cries and screams come out of their mouth. Shoulda just cut the *****es face, teach him a lesson. THAT's something I can get behind. Teach him a lesson, not kill him.
You do realise a lot of times when people get stabbed they don't realise what's actually happened immediately, right? Meaning they don't scream. Hell, a lot of people claim they thought they had been punched, only noticing when there's a knife/dagger/whatever sticking out of them.
I've been in situations during high school where after being provoked repeatedly I just snapped and hit back/gotten into fights, not thinking, barely aware of what I'm doing until afterwards. The fact that you can't relate to this, leads me to think that you've never been bullied, so it's not surprising that you can't see it from his point of view.
I don't think anyone's agreeing that he should have not been charged with anything, but I'd rather him not be charged, rather than be charged with murder since he did everything he could to avoid the situation that the bullies forced upon him.
I've been in situations during high school where after being provoked repeatedly I just snapped and hit back/gotten into fights, not thinking, barely aware of what I'm doing until afterwards. The fact that you can't relate to this, leads me to think that you've never been bullied, so it's not surprising that you can't see it from his point of view.
I don't think anyone's agreeing that he should have not been charged with anything, but I'd rather him not be charged, rather than be charged with murder since he did everything he could to avoid the situation that the bullies forced upon him.
I stabbed a kid in the leg with a pencil once, after months and months of daily harassment.
I mean, just once, but still. I wasn't really thinking "let me find a non-lethal place to stab this kid" when I did it....I just did it and realized after that I had just stabbed someone.
I mean, just once, but still. I wasn't really thinking "let me find a non-lethal place to stab this kid" when I did it....I just did it and realized after that I had just stabbed someone.
- Joined
- Jun 8, 2009
- Messages
- 9,609
- 3DS FC
- 3136-6583-3704
Lol, you're talking to the wrong ******! I grew up in the pasty white, disgustingly conservative southern oregon. I just would never STAB someone. I think that's why I don't get it. That isn't how I handled being bullied.
Zook
Perpetual Lazy Bum
Did you miss the part where it said that the boy tried to avoid the bully? The article said that, before the stabbing, the kid clearly demonstrated that he did not want to confront the bully. You seem to think that his first reaction was to pull a knife on the other kid.
It's pretty clear the kid snapped and his instincts took over. I highly doubt he actually realized what he was doing. I mean, I'm glad that you've never been in a situation of extreme stress before and can't relate to the situation at all, but...
Also, are you serious? "That isn't how I handled being bullied." looool oh yeah, Oregon is a pretty tough place, I'm sure what happened to you and what happened to Saavedra was more or less the same situation. I bet you actually feared your life was in danger. Like Saavedra.
- Joined
- Jun 8, 2009
- Messages
- 9,609
- 3DS FC
- 3136-6583-3704
Uhm hi, you're a little late to the conversation... you didn't say anything that Mic didn't say before you.
Except for being a **** about "I wasn't bullied right" or something silly like that. Sorry no one ACTUALLY ever got to kick my ***. Sorry I'm so softcore~
Except for being a **** about "I wasn't bullied right" or something silly like that. Sorry no one ACTUALLY ever got to kick my ***. Sorry I'm so softcore~
Pluvia
Hates Semicolons<br>;
Yeah I've known people that have been stabbed and pretty much all of them say they thought they'd just been punched. The adrenaline also might have covered it up for the bully even more, so I highly doubt he would've noticed it straight away.
infiniteV115
Smash Hero
Yup. One of my friends was stabbed in a 3v5 (he was on the 3 side) confrontation but he didn't notice until the 5 guys on the opposing side left. And he only noticed because of a bloody tear in his shirt.
I've never been stabbed but I've had a lot of injuries that weren't immediately apparent, it's frequently the more innocuous cuts and scrapes that actually hurt the most at the moment of impact. I've gashed my hand pretty badly and only noticed it when I saw the profuse bleeding, the body blocks the pain for a lot of things like that.
Forget stabbed, you can be shot and not realise it.Yeah I've known people that have been stabbed and pretty much all of them say they thought they'd just been punched. The adrenaline also might have covered it up for the bully even more, so I highly doubt he would've noticed it straight away.
Also seriously when you think about it, the killer probably did society a favour, if you feel like being callous about it.
Like really, I am fine with a lot of questionable things, but I've always found bullying to be somewhat of a low practice, consistently picking on someone who you perceive to be weaker/of lower status for no real reason other than to satisfy your own ego or something.
Like really, it's not exactly an achievement to stomp ants all day, which is why bullying is kinda lame as a one to one picking on thing, which is what this was.
Pluvia
Hates Semicolons<br>;
Regarding the society thing, I was surprised people in this thread were shocked about what he was like after seeing that youtube video. I mean what were they expecting? A kinda normal kid? Or a stinking chav like the one shown.
Jim Morrison
Smash Authority
No but a person is a person until you get something to judge them off.
And I'm a person so I feel bad for persons.
And I'm a person so I feel bad for persons.
Peeze
Smash Master
LOL i live 30minutes from there. Florida has the best laws 
They are still a person after that, you know.
theeboredone
Smash Legend
I'm still curious to know what kind of upbringing the bully had, but guess we'll never know.
Blistering Speed
Smash Champion
So, children are now allowed to murder their bullies, without reprecussion?
The amount of blind bias from people who can empathise with the killer is frightening.
The amount of blind bias from people who can empathise with the killer is frightening.
GunmasterLombardi
Smash Champion
Yeah cause he definitely couldn't have not ride the bus, nor call the cops a long time ago, nor get his parents to file a restraining order, nor get counselling.
It's scary how helpless we high schoolers are; also, I didn't know being glad a bully was killed meant that you're a better person than they were.
Can you guys honestly post anything more ludicrous, or do I need to kick my sarcasm up a level?
Peeze
Smash Master
Bullying, being teenagers, riding a bus are all irrelevant details.
The law says if you are attacked, you have the right to meet force with force. He did that.
The law says if you are attacked, you have the right to meet force with force. He did that.
I bet if this kid were still alive people would be all "he is the worst kind of person I wish he'd just die".
Young Jorge is vessel through which the world managed to vent some hatred.
12 times.
Young Jorge is vessel through which the world managed to vent some hatred.
12 times.
This. Ideally you don't want anyone to die, but people have to be able to defend themselves. Blows to the back of the head can be potentially lethal or life altering, considering he had his whole gang joining in too the use of force is understandable. Did any of you even read about this or did you just see the opportunity to be self righteous and immediately lunged at it?
The amount of people who thinks that's the point makes me sad.
Lets go through the list and point out how dumb they are.
1. Not riding the bus
Okay, great, so now he doesn't even have the relative safety of a bus to protect himself in, with a bus driver for if the situation went out of control. He was stabbed when he left the bus, not on it. And what's walking going to do, other than slow him down, giving the bullies more time to find and torment him?
2. Calling the cops
Unless there's plenty of witnesses or evidence, they aren't going to do anything.
3. Restraining order
These aren't worth the paper they're printed on. Aside from the fact you have to go through court and explain to a judge why, which you need a lot of evidence to give a valid reasoning, you won't get one. Even then, they're badly enforced. Call the cops, and hope that they're still thereby the time they eventually arrive. And I'm talking from experience, my dad had to get one a few years back and it was useless.
4. Counciling
Why the hell are you saying the kid who is being bullied should get counselling? He's not the one with behavioural problems. He's not the one who can't interact with people without using violence and threats. Saying the bullied party should get counceling is like saying that police should handcuff themselves when they arrest someone. It's a stupid idea.
- Joined
- Feb 6, 2009
- Messages
- 11,841
Not even just why, but how as well.
How would that help him? Would the bully suddenly stop because the victim's getting psychiatric help?
The problem isn't that he defended himself with force, it's that he stabbed him twelve times, which goes past the point of defence.
I could understand if he just stabbed him a couple of times, at that point the bully would have been incapacitated. But the fact that he continued to stab him after he was compromised is what I think he should be punished for.
Blistering Speed
Smash Champion
I can't believe this. People are honestly excusing this child killing another child for bullying him. Self defence should not be some sweeping generalisation for all retaliations. I was in a fight when I was younger, he hit me first. By the precedent this case sets, I'm within my rights to stab him repeatedly and kill him.
****ing really? Stop vicariously rationalising this because of your own experiences.
****ing really? Stop vicariously rationalising this because of your own experiences.
Enlighten me.
Pluvia
Hates Semicolons<br>;
I think you're jumping to conclusions thinking we've been bullied because we defend him. I've not been bullied yet I don't think the kid should be charged with murder seeing as though it wasn't premeditated.
It was self defense. He could've been seriously injured or even killed, the bully tracked him down and swung at his head from behind, the victim protected himself with force and the bully was killed. It's not a black and white situation.
It was self defense. He could've been seriously injured or even killed, the bully tracked him down and swung at his head from behind, the victim protected himself with force and the bully was killed. It's not a black and white situation.
Read my post above.
People here seem to think that you either have to think that he shouldn've acted in self-defence at all, or that stabbing someone 12 times constitutes self-defence, as if they're the only two options.
I think he was entitled to act in self-defence, but stabbing someone 12 times, especially considering that the bully would have been incapacitated after a couple of stabs goes beyond self defence.
People who say 'he was entitled to act in self-defence' are ignoring the fact he stabbed him twelve times, as if that's not that different to stabbing someone two or three times.
People here seem to think that you either have to think that he shouldn've acted in self-defence at all, or that stabbing someone 12 times constitutes self-defence, as if they're the only two options.
I think he was entitled to act in self-defence, but stabbing someone 12 times, especially considering that the bully would have been incapacitated after a couple of stabs goes beyond self defence.
People who say 'he was entitled to act in self-defence' are ignoring the fact he stabbed him twelve times, as if that's not that different to stabbing someone two or three times.
Pluvia
Hates Semicolons<br>;
But you're not taking into account the circumstances of that situation. He's 14, and was getting attacked, he probably thought he was going to die, he lashed out with fear and rage. There's people who have smashed Xbox controllers in a rage, I have a friend who has gone through about 20 now, but why? That's not a rational thing to do, the rational thing to do is stop playing and turn off the Xbox, yet people don't instead they smash controllers because they're so angry.
This situation is much more extreme than a crappy Xbox game. Not only did he get surprise attacked, by someone who had been threatening him previously, he could've been killed or seriously injured. He lashed out and protected himself.
Saying he should've thought rationally in an irrational sitation is ridiculous.
This situation is much more extreme than a crappy Xbox game. Not only did he get surprise attacked, by someone who had been threatening him previously, he could've been killed or seriously injured. He lashed out and protected himself.
Saying he should've thought rationally in an irrational sitation is ridiculous.
You don't know this. We've had several people in this thread testify that people don't know that they have been stabbed until they see the damage afterwards. For all we know, Dylan continued attacking Jorge after he had been stabbed. It's reasonable to presume that in Dylan's state of mind that he thought Jorge had engaged in a fist fight and he was responding in kind. This means that rather than backing off after being stabbed, Dylan would have continued being aggressive. Since Jorge was legally allowed to use as much force to eliminate the threat; in the above scenario, this means lethal force. We don't know what actually happened because the news articles are lacking in facts, but it would depend on what actually happened to determine whether this amount of force was justified or not. Given the details, it can't be determined, but it certainly does not boil down to the number of wounds on the attacker.Dre. said:
GunmasterLombardi
Smash Champion
Hey guys, killing isn't wrong cause a piece of paper said so.
I admit I should've explained this one.
"Someone's bullying me and the only way I know how to handle him is with a weapon. I need help." Is that clear enough for you or should I explain it in ghetto or something?
This guy gets it...
Pluvia
Hates Semicolons<br>;
Why did you ignore my post?
Pluvia
Hates Semicolons<br>;
Even worse was the whole "the only way I know how to handle him" thing. Handle him? That makes it sound like he was the one doing the attacking, when in reality he was the one avoiding the fight and defending himself when he got attacked.
GunmasterLombardi
Smash Champion
@Pluvia. I'm too lazy to eat those post up.
That Xbox thing helps my point. Maybe there was self-defense but there wasn't any self-control.
That Xbox thing helps my point. Maybe there was self-defense but there wasn't any self-control.
Pluvia
Hates Semicolons<br>;
And the bully? Say your opinion on him and what he should've done differently.
Walking away from a fight shows self control. And I'm sorry, but every animal can be nice, but if you keep pushing, tormenting, abusing it, it will snap, it will become uncontrollably aggressive. Seen the kids poking, prodding, chasing the cat, which then lashes out, scratching them? Or maybe a dog instead, throwing things, yelling, grabbing it's tail, then it bites them.
The fact is, if you can't even see this, then it's simply clear you or anyone you know personally hasn't been bullied to this extreme. In a way, you're rather lucky, but it's leaving you very ignorant to this situation.
The problem is, you can't quantify something like incapacitation relative to the number of stabs, or the number of times someone was shot.
The number of stabs necessary and justifiable for self-defense is the number it takes to decisively incapacitate your opponent. There's no single answer. A person might be stabbed once and die. Another person in another fight might be stabbed twenty times and live. You cannot simply look at the number twelve and say "that was too many."
Moreover, when a person is in adrenaline-fueled fight-or-flight mode, they're not consciously thinking about this--especially not a young fourteen-year old kid who's scared and has been attacked and has no self-defense training. I cannot attest to this personally but a number of people in this thread have confirmed it based on their own experiences. If you were afraid of getting the living hell kicked out of you (or perhaps worse), you'd probably stab repeatedly until you felt you were no longer in danger.
Trying to put a number on how many stabs it takes to neutralize an attacker is like trying to determine the number of licks it takes to get to the center of a Tootsie Pop. Just because one specific owl says three, doesn't mean it's three for everyone
Nobody's saying that killing is okay (at least, I hope not). What they are saying is that, in this specific case, it was justified based on the circumstances.
Masmasher@
Smash Lord
Well
the kid he killed was two to three years older then him
and was a black belt
and in that situation especially when you are fighting for you life you tend to flail
he killed the kid with a stab that hit his vital point in the chest
heck they count nicks as stab wounds.
while i don't wish death on anybody
being bullied is tough and it wasn't till i stood up to mine that they backed off
but this was much more extreme
he tried several times to leave the fight even getting off at a bus stop way before his house just to preemptively end it
parents even had to have a policeman escort him to school
this was a reoccurring theme
and you only can push something so long
lmfao at telling on the bully
because everybody knows that the teachers can protect you away from school and they are gonna expel him for messing with you
thats sarcasm since i know thats lost online
this kid felt like he was at the end of his rope and fought
you cant and shouldnt live day to day thinking
"oh well he only stuffs me in the locker usually on Thursdays so i should get off today without serious injury"
the kid he killed was two to three years older then him
and was a black belt
and in that situation especially when you are fighting for you life you tend to flail
he killed the kid with a stab that hit his vital point in the chest
heck they count nicks as stab wounds.
while i don't wish death on anybody
being bullied is tough and it wasn't till i stood up to mine that they backed off
but this was much more extreme
he tried several times to leave the fight even getting off at a bus stop way before his house just to preemptively end it
parents even had to have a policeman escort him to school
this was a reoccurring theme
and you only can push something so long
lmfao at telling on the bully
because everybody knows that the teachers can protect you away from school and they are gonna expel him for messing with you
thats sarcasm since i know thats lost online
this kid felt like he was at the end of his rope and fought
you cant and shouldnt live day to day thinking
"oh well he only stuffs me in the locker usually on Thursdays so i should get off today without serious injury"
- Status