Kid stabs bully to death. Gets off with no charges

[GunmasterLombardi]

parents even had to have a policeman escort him to school

So he is to be escorted home or picked up by his parents.

He was not forced to get on the bus.

@Pluvia, I never said the bully did nothing wrong.

 

[Masmasher@]

Naw
he was only escorted to school
he tried to fight off the policeman from dragging him to school

home he had to take the bus
which...is fully within his right
he shouldnt have to uproot his day to day routine because some bully wants to be a jerk

 

[Pluvia]

Yeah, because you're being threatened with violence you should have to change your day routine?

It's getting ridiculous when you say "Well, even though he was doing absolutely nothing wrong, he shouldn't have been there in the first place."

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

It's sad this happened.

 

[GunmasterLombardi]

Naw
he was only escorted to school
he tried to fight off the policeman from dragging him to school

home he had to take the bus
which...is fully within his right
he shouldnt have to uproot his day to day routine because some bully wants to be a jerk

I understand that with the police but he couldn't get parents nor a friend to drive him home?

Yeah, because you're being threatened with violence you should have to change your day routine?

It's getting ridiculous when you say "Well, even though he was doing absolutely nothing wrong, he shouldn't have been there in the first place."

Having trouble with a bully + bully is on the bus = Don't ride the bus...

Look, Dylan was an ***hole, but it's not any better that Saavedra straight up stabbed Dylan 12 TIMES as if he wanted to kill him. This act of self-defense was excessive and a line needs to be drawn.

You can't just murder someone and say "I was defending myself" and get off with no penalty.

 

[Jim Morrison]

I think from this point on we should just ignore this whole issue and it'll basically resolve itself. No one gets any better from saying "your point is stupid no yours is no mine isn't".

So we all start over again and nothing happened!

 

[Teran]

and was a black belt

Hahahahaha fat lot of good that did him.

Maybe the Nunos should take legal action against his martial arts intructor

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I disagree with the notion that he deserved to die, or how those youtube comments were horribly insensitive to the family.

People aren't black or white with personality, they are shades of grey, even if he seemed to express a lot of the bad side, doesn't mean he deserved to die. It happened because he pushed someone too far who could defend himself, and it wasn't murder.

It's truly said it did happen, and it might have been avoidable. Just one of the sad things in life.

 

[Pluvia]

We're not saying he should've died, we're just saying the kid shouldn't be done with murder.

 

[Teran]

I disagree with the notion that he deserved to die

Deserve really has nothing to do with it, he reaped the seeds of his actions.

And yeah basically I don't think people are condoning going after your bullies with pocket knives and chainsaws, merely that this kid who was repeatedly toremented and backed into a corner acted in fear of his safety and acted accordingly.

Besides I think the funniest part would be even if he were charged with murder and the stand your ground thing didn't exist, he could have plead not guilty due to temporary insanity and walked.

 

[Mic_128]

I understand that with the police but he couldn't get parents nor a friend to drive him home?

If his parents work, then no. And if he lives far enough away that he takes the bus, then I doubt friends who live elsewhere would want to take the bus the wrong way with him.

Having trouble with a bully + bully is on the bus = Don't ride the bus...

It's not any better that Saavedra straight up stabbed Dylan 12 TIMES as if he wanted to kill him. This act of self-defense was excessive and a line needs to be drawn.

You can't just murder someone and say "I was defending myself" and get off with no penalty.

You don't read other people's posts that explain things, do you?

 

[Masmasher@]

Hahahahaha fat lot of good that did him.

Maybe the Nunos should take legal action against his martial arts intructor

heres the kicker...
his instructor was his own father


maybe he should have taught more moral values
who knows

 

[-Jumpman-]

***** deserved it.

 

[etecoon]

I think Lombardi is right, obviously this kid should have just stopped going to school. The fight even happening was his fault, when someone wants to assault you constantly you need to realize that it's your fault for existing and take the appropriate action by becoming a hermit so no one will be tempted to attack you.

 

[Mota]

This whole thread has been an interesting read, but Etecoon just slayed me

 

[Luigitoilet]

The problem I have with some of the people in this thread and the general media about this incident is the emphasis on "bullying".

Nuno was physically assaulting Saveedra, and continued to stalk and pursue him after Saveedra tried to run away. actively stalking Saveedra to inflict further physical harm.

he didn't stab the guy just because he was "bullying" him. He was defending himself from a violent assailant. Also, people seem to be representing this as the kid gouging away at Nuno's heart 12 times. The reports say two of the stabs were fatal and most articles simplify the range of wounds as "chest and abdomen area" as Saveedra was retreating and as Nuno was still pursuing. I don't think people realize how frantic a fight can be, especially when your assailant is more than marginally larger than you and you are outnumbered. It's very likely these stabs happened in under 5 seconds.

My blame goes on the way bullying is treated and looked at by society and as a result in our public schools. It should have never come to this, and I really think the "bullying" term is a euphemism that really trivializes what it really is- abuse.

Imagine if the situation was the same, but it was a battered wife defending herself from an abusive husband, someone with far more physical strength and sheer weight/size and she stabbed the man after being punched in the back of the head (which is also a potentially fatal thing to do [people have died from less and MMA bans it for a reason]) and further pursued and assaulted. Would there be as much "SEND THAT MURDERER TO THE GALLOWS" as with this story? I doubt it.

 

[jugfingers]

I think it is likely that nuno underestimated or was unaware of the strength of human suffering.

jorge is a hero to alot of people.

 

[GunmasterLombardi]

If Saavedra was a girl I wouldn't still be posting here.

Not to sound hypocritical.

 

[Luigitoilet]

If Saavedra was a girl I wouldn't still be posting here.

Not to sound hypocritical.

That is not only hypocritical but also sexist. good job i guess

 

[Teran]

I think Lombardi is right, obviously this kid should have just stopped going to school. The fight even happening was his fault, when someone wants to assault you constantly you need to realize that it's your fault for existing and take the appropriate action by becoming a hermit so no one will be tempted to attack you.

Man you kidding? I think you mean commit suicide!

That is not only hypocritical but also sexist. good job i guess

Looool perfection.

 

[Gaogao]

If a dude try's to fallow me and kick my _, and I think he is threatening me, I will kick his _ first.

 

[Aurane]

*Reads title of Thread* See, why do we even bother breathing anymore?

 

[BBQTV]

cause your body forces you to breath if you hold it in for too long.

 

[Kinzer]

4. Counciling
Why the hell are you saying the kid who is being bullied should get counselling? He's not the one with behavioural problems. He's not the one who can't interact with people without using violence and threats. Saying the bullied party should get counceling is like saying that police should handcuff themselves when they arrest someone. It's a stupid idea.

Not even just why, but how as well.

How would that help him? Would the bully suddenly stop because the victim's getting psychiatric help?

Really?

C'mon Mic, I at least expected better from you, of all people.

Spelt is too confusing to tell whether his posts are just witty or if he really warrants the "troll" label.

Do you have any idea how ignorant this is?

L-Let's just assume that we actually did taclke the Unconditioned Stimuli, (source if you will) which was the bully's maladaptive behavior. From there, we can pretend the bully got proper counseling and thus became a normal human being taken away from his anti-social personality behavior. Everything's all hunky-dorry and we can go back to the things way were right?

... If only it were this easy.

Sadly, that isn't the case.

Can you at least imagine the type of long-term psychological effects this would have? I'm not even going to fancy the thought of just a singular negative to it because there's no freaking way to tell how one person would be able to handle the circumstances thereafter due to the subjectivity of human nature.

I admit I should've explained this one.

"Someone's bullying me and the only way I know how to handle him is with a weapon. I need help." Is that clear enough for you or should I explain it in ghetto or something

You probably should've done people a favor and be serious about this.

Luckily I am here.

@Pluvia. I'm too lazy to eat those post up.

Again, wonderful that I'm here then.

Do you (people) want me to list all the possibilities?

Because I actually can, I'm going to college to become a Psychologist, and I have an idea what this s*** does to people.

Except not really because as that type of doctor, all I could do is study. I'd never understand what it's like first hand. I pray I never will have to either. I mean God, man. Ugh~!

IDC what anybody says: I am siding with the victim (not the dead one) and how the situation was handled.

I don't feel like considering variables and just get the done-deal. Unfortunately not everybody can recognize their faults, but if it involves inflicting harm on me then I'm afraid our interests are conflicting. That rhyme was totally not intentional.

 

[Pluvia]

Either I'm really tired or that was impossible to understand.

 

[Luigitoilet]

Congrats Kinzler, that is one of the worst posts I've ever read in my whole time here at SWF.

I had to lol when you told us to go look for sources for something you said though.

 

[Kinzer]

Either I'm really tired or that was impossible to understand.

You and me both.

Congrats Kinzler, that is one of the worst posts I've ever read in my whole time here at SWF.

I had to lol when you told us to go look for sources for something you said though.

I hope you're being sarcastic/exaggerating. Even then, this is just bad . I don't even want to make this personal and call you out on your past posts that haven't contributed to threads (and you're a mod so that just makes it worse) :/ Also c'mon, that's even worse than using s in favor of z

Also where did I tell people to go look up things Even though the internet is a wonderful invention no matter what?

... At least I don't think I'd go and say that explicitly. Not when I'm studying for that sort of situation.

 

[Luigitoilet]

Also where did I tell people to go look up things Even though the internet is a wonderful invention no matter what?

.Let's just assume that we actually did taclke the Unconditioned Stimuli, (source if you will) which was the bully's maladaptive behavior.

when you make a statement about a psychological phenomena such as Unconditioned Stimuli and maladaptive behavior, you don't just say "google it." or whatever you meant to express with "source if you will".

I mean...you CAN, but it makes you a very bad debater. This is your argument, so you provide the sources. don't just throw italicized jargon at us.

And moreover, that post doesn't even make sense especially in the context of the people you're replying to. They were both in response to a poster who argued that Saveedra getting counseling would somehow stop Nuno's bullying. You should, being a student of psychology have access to some of the literature and academia about it. If you are that much smarter about this than us, why not give us some sources to read?

I don't think anybody was arguing that Saveedra is not in need of severe counselling. In fact, the poster that Mic was responding to was arguing that counselling for Saveedra would actively prevent Nuno from bullying him which is simply untrue.

And then at the end you're like " I don't care what y'all think, I'm siding with Saveedra!" as you are the only one in this thread to do so. In fact, I think people defending Nuno are in the minority as far as this thread goes. It's like you quoted all those posts and then didn't read them, but decided to yell at the posters anyways and then type some nonsense about how you are studying psychology as if that is relevant to this situation in the least.

 

[Kinzer]

when you make a statement about a psychological phenomena such as Unconditioned Stimuli and maladaptive behavior, you don't just say "google it." or whatever you meant to express with "source if you will".

I mean...you CAN, but it makes you a very bad debater. This is your argument, so you provide the sources. don't just throw italicized jargon at us.

And moreover, that post doesn't even make sense especially in the context of the people you're replying to. They were both in response to a poster who argued that Saveedra getting counseling would somehow stop Nuno's bullying. You should, being a student of psychology have access to some of the literature and academia about it. If you are that much smarter about this than us, why not give us some sources to read?

I don't think anybody was arguing that Saveedra is not in need of severe counselling. In fact, the poster that Mic was responding to was arguing that counselling for Saveedra would actively prevent Nuno from bullying him which is simply untrue.

And then at the end you're like " I don't care what y'all think, I'm siding with Saveedra!" as you are the only one in this thread to do so. In fact, I think people defending Nuno are in the minority as far as this thread goes. It's like you quoted all those posts and then didn't read them, but decided to yell at the posters anyways and then type some nonsense about how you are studying psychology as if that is relevant to this situation in the least.

... But I never explicitly said "Google it." ;_; Please don't put words in my mouth, I'm not trying to imply anything. I know better than to assume that cryptic/sarcastic get nowhere in intellectual discussion on the internet and I wouldn't dare do anything like that here.

... Hmm. Well, you must forgive me. I'm not used to actually citing sources, especially not online. I'm surprised I've gotten this far without it, but I suppose that's my fault for not knowing better. *Scratch.*

Also, I don't think I'm that much smarter (but again I never said I was smarter about this sort of thing. Just that I happen to be reading into this sort of thing). I'll be honest, it should be generally/applied knowledge. Why so far it's been college entry level. You know, the type of information people pick up on regardless of their major? Must I have to explain the mundane details then as well?

If that's really necessary I suppose I will, but you know... A simple Google definition search should take care of that. Here, I'll give one example (I can give more if it really is needed, I swear it's no trouble on my end):

Define: Maladaptive Behavior.

At this point I'm just saving time and saying "Define:-" should find even the most simple, brief definitions. But again, am I wrong for giving others too much credit?

B-But here, I can at least provide a weblink to the book in question. Sorry, I'm really not familiar with how to cite.

As I've said, introductory level stuff. Don't know how much more straightforward I could make this without proper citation and direct quotes/definitions from the book.

Okay okay, so I looked at it again. You (and Mic) are right in saying that the victim wouldn't have needed any sort of therapy if things had just been left alone, or perhaps went in a different direction. I agree with that, that's certainly true. Forgive me if I gave the impression otherwise. However, as everyone has read/seen, that didn't go as such.

Mmm, but then this is where I'm coming from. That's a traumatic experience having to deal with a bully no? I wouldn't know, I really don't. I just read stories like this, hear from other people, and that's just the impression I'm getting. If it were so easy to shrug off, there wouldn't be problems like this, no?

I suppose I don't know. Maybe I failed to recognize that this sort of thing can be interpreted in different ways, and not all views are wrong (or even right... What do you call that besides limbo?). Or I just looked at certain parts and not the whole.

Edit: Woah no~! When I said 'source,' I meant that as a layman's replacement word. I did not in any paraphrase that to suggest people go look up stuff themselves!

Ninja-edits are wonderful? Well this time I've no excuse, now I'm just slipping. Perhaps from being tired.

 

[mariomaster21]

Geez, it's scary to think about bullying taken to these extremes. And you gotta wonder how much it take you to snap before you finally snap back...

 

[Masmasher@]

what the **** is this dude talking about
stop spitting out your credentials and speak lmfao

 

[Life]

Kinzer's posts over on /sonic/ are actually quite informative if a bit tl;drish. I have no trouble with the ones here.

Also, there's a difference between "the kid needs counseling" (present tense, that is, after the stabbing) and "the kid should have gotten counseling" (past tense, that is, before attacking the other kid). I think at some point one of us (I neither know nor care which one) got confused between the two and that's why we're having this argument.

 

[Luigitoilet]

I disagree. I think bullying IS a traumatic emotional thing (also, an aside here but Nuno transfered to the school to avoid bullying/harassment problems of his own, according to his parents) and Saveedra needed counseling before this incident ever happened. Like I said, I don't think anybody else suggested otherwise before this whole little debacle began. The argument was originally that counseling was not going to prevent Nuno from bullying Saveedra, which was something that someone had suggested earlier in the thread. I think Kinzer misinterpreted these posts to read "Saveedra doesn't need counseling period"

 

[Aurane]

cause your body forces you to breath if you hold it in for too long.

Generally speaking, who should anymore?

What I meant was that I look at some of the comments here, seeing some of you supporting him, then see that a CHILD bully was STABBED by another kid, and then the kid gets away with it, made me want to just die out of unexpressed rage (Though I care to see how death is the answer to THIS sort of situation). The logic of the judging we've seen lately (Casey Anthony, big example) blows my mind.

Bully be bullyin'. So instead of going all Pawniard on him, try, to the very least, beating the **** out of him. Obviously, the kid could of.

I see the life we live now as pure and simply messed up. Sorry, I can't be kind about this matter.

 

[Masmasher@]

Generally speaking, who should anymore?

What I meant was that I look at some of the comments here, seeing some of you supporting him, then see that a CHILD bully was STABBED by another kid, and then the kid gets away with it, made me want to just die out of unexpressed rage (Though I care to see how death is the answer to THIS sort of situation). The logic of the judging we've seen lately (Casey Anthony, big example) blows my mind.

Bully be bullyin'. So instead of going all Pawniard on him, try, to the very least, beating the **** out of him. Obviously, the kid could of.

I see the life we live now as pure and simply messed up. Sorry, I can't be kind about this matter.

WRONG
the bully was it least 2 years older then him
built better physically
and is/was a ****ing black belt

cmon now
its not about whether it was right to kill the kid
it what the moment had brought to illicit that response
that it the fact that he was tormented
bullying is just a step short of torture.

he doesnt "get away with it"
thats your problem
your looking at this like a crime
it was self defense and i add AFTER he tried SEVERAL times to flee the situation

savvadra didnt want to be another statistic

do you have any idea how many ****ing times victims of bullys die by accidental/extreme circumstances because of said bullying

then by even stated that he got away with it you are assuming that he tried to kill himhe might have been trying to deter him

 

[Luigitoilet]

Bully be bullyin'. So instead of going all Pawniard on him, try, to the very least, beating the **** out of him. Obviously, the kid could of.

Yeah! I agree! He should have stood on his hind legs, beat his chest and bared his teeth. Maybe after the fight he and the bully could have picked the bugs out of each others hair!

 

[Spelt]

kinzer has made this thread so much more entertaining.

 

[etecoon]

WRONG
the bully was it least 2 years older then him
built better physically
and is/was a ****ing black belt

Had all of his friends ganging up on him too, what a punk move.

 

[Aurane]

WRONG
the bully was it least 2 years older then him
built better physically
and is/was a ****ing black belt
So, what, he couldn't just get some help? No one said anything about him asking for help.

cmon now
its not about whether it was right to kill the kid
it what the moment had brought to illicit that response
that it the fact that he was tormented
bullying is just a step short of torture.
I know what bullying is. I definatly do not require a definition, even an example. But it's definatly looked down on how to avoid bullying. He used no good effort to stop it. If I'm wrong, explain why a knife is bloodied up into another child.

he doesnt "get away with it"
thats your problem
your looking at this like a crime
it was self defense and i add AFTER he tried SEVERAL times to flee the situation
It is a crime, what the hell are you talking about? A child was "Stabbed" by another kid because the kid was being bullied. Even if he tried to flee the scene, there were very much better ways to handle the situation. There's no excuse to KILL someone.

savvadra didnt want to be another statistic

do you have any idea how many ****ing times victims of bullys die by accidental/extreme circumstances because of said bullying

Which is why I know we're ****ed. We have a pitiful judging system, and little should-bes like Bullying is a national problem. That is sad, and we focus more on that than what needs more attention. It's a joke to think killing the bully was the ONLY way. Self Defense means you strike back to defend yourself. Killing is out of context. Now, if the bully had a knife as well, THAT'S a different story. The only arguement I agree with is that he's a black belt, which is a weapon classification.

then by even stated that he got away with it you are assuming that he tried to kill himhe might have been trying to deter him
I'm not saying he commited a crime intentionally. I'm saying he took it too far.

Answers underlined. Personally,I think it's sick that nothing was learned from this scene. "Bullies of the world: Grow up. You need to take a step off, because you too might be killed." That's what my 9 year old cousin told me, which I do NOT appriciate.

Yeah! I agree! He should have stood on his hind legs, beat his chest and bared his teeth. Maybe after the fight he and the bully could have picked the bugs out of each others hair!

Better bring a barrel, We'll teach'em a lesson, style.

EDIT: Wait, the bully had friends? I did not know this... I'm done here, then. Carry on. *walks off*

 

[etecoon]

I have to agree with LT on this, the fact that it was "bullying" is completely irrelevant and you're marginalizing the actual event by trying to demean it that way. It doesn't matter if there's past history, if someone sucker punches you in the back of the head they're using lethal force and you have the right to respond in kind, especially if they then proceed to prevent you from fleeing. The fact that there was a history of abuse is already not pertinent, but to then try to play it off as "well now everyone can just kill their bullies"? SMFH