Just one more reason I hate brawl/brawl kids. (feel free to close this)

[Blatt Blvd]

A lot of melee players had high hopes for brawl, only for it to (IMO) be a steaming pile of pooh. I think a lot of melee players are just annoyed at the fact that this watered down version of melee is being played competitively.

have to agree with this post for the most part.

thats why i hate the brawl scene so much.

i remember traveling 4 to 12 hours every other weekend for tournies that usually werent bigger than 40 or 50 kids.

now theres 80 man brawl tourneys weekly in all regions of the US.

BARWL

 

[nevershootme]

rule #1 of the social board. no brawl vs melee

 

[PolMex23]

why did everyone ignore me?

Are we women or men? Stop arguing...

CLOSE!!!

****IT MARKO!!!!!!!!

 

[AlphaZealot]

@AlphaZealot - ...since when have the old 2D fighters had a low turn out? ST and 3S are still pretty strong. they might even be when SFIV becomes established due to being considerably different. anyway you look at it, though, Smash is fundamentally not a great fighting game comparatively, and Brawl even more so. i just like to spread the gospel of good games. Don't play Smash. Play GGXX and SFIV.

Sorry. I mean in comparison to Smash, both Melee back in the day and Brawl in 2008/2009 so far, and having 10-20 tournaments a week around the country. Unless those communities have a number of tournaments that rival this: http://theviashino.com/ssbb/tournaments-2009-1.txt or this: http://theviashino.com/ssbb/tournaments2.txt or this: http://theviashino.com/ssbb/tournaments-2009-2.txt

Then they aren't special. Aside from SF4 (a new game) those older games aren't even comparable to Smash unless its EVO, and EVO is just once a year and the only year Smash was there with good rules (Melee) Smash was the second most attended game. Heck, even Brawl with crap rules beat out a game or two (LOL) last year.

Essentially, if you play Smash, you can find a tournament every single weekend almost anywhere in the country. If you play those other games good luck finding a tournament even two weeks in a row.

However you raise a great point. All the people saying "don't play Brawl, it sucks!" Should stop playing Smash. I don't really know the key differences between all the other fighting games, I just know the 2d fighters disrespect Smash as a whole the same way Melee players disrespect Brawl, so follow that logic we should all just switch to 2d fighters and drop Melee/Brawl all-together.

---

My personal opinion is people should play what they want.

In regards to competition, I think the most competitive game between fighters is essentially impossible to define. For example, you can have an infinitely complex game played by 10 people that isn't even close to the same competitiveness as checkers played by 1,000,000 people. One of the biggest pushers for how competitive a game is is HOW MANY PEOPLE PLAY the game. So even if on the surface, just looking at the dynamics that exist in the game, something is more "competitive" if you factor in the community/how many people play the game things could quickly change. It doesn't matter what game you are playing, if you are the best of 10,000 people you had more competition and skill then someone who managed to get to the top of the mountain against 100 people.

 

[GA Peach]

But you can't force your opinion on someone. That's the whole problem with this argument. People on both sides think that they are in the right, but they are both terribly wrong.

What if they don't want to play Melee? What if they don't want to play Brawl? Why must you try to change someone's opinion, and flame them if they don't?

And most importantly: Why can't we just be one big, happy community with everyone doing what they want to do?

well, so far, no one has explained to me how and why Brawl is a good game to play in competition. if you like the game, and wanna play it with friends, etc., cool with me. in fact, i encourage it. but, then, people start talking about the "community" they yearn for so much without really thinking about it; fundamentally sub-par games kill competitive communities. wanna know why Capcom Fighting Jam is never played in tournament? because it is fundamentally awful. brawl is ok casually, imo, but it is an absolute joke in competition, and it will make the community even more of a joke than it already is. Melee already is seen as a fairly big joke. People roll around on the ground with tears in their eyes when it comes to Brawl.

 

[AlphaZealot]

Both Melee and Brawl have awesome communities. I really wonder what you base the death of a community on if not strickly on the outside perception of rival communities. I base my observation of the community on what I witness at tournaments. Last weekend I did a Brawl tourney in MD/VA, and it was awesome, and though I missed it like 1/3rd of the people at the tournament went out to eat together afterwards. About a month ago I held my own tournament in Ohio, and when it was down I had about half the people stay just to eat and drink and have fun together. I've been to tons of tournaments in both Melee and Brawl where I'm housed by random people I haven't met, where I'm driven by people who lives hours from me, and where I meet people who I would in my everyday life probably not be privileged enough to meet. Smash is one of the only places where you can live this 'counter culture' type of lifestyle. It doesn't matter how good you are, there is a place for you somewhere in the Smash community.

I play Brawl competitively, it is both fun, exciting, demanding mentally, and for me also somewhat physically (Diddy is likely more demanding then Peach was for me in Melee). One of the things I like about Brawl is that it's slower pace allows for a very clear perception of what strategies are being employed and what strategies are being used to counter said strategies. I litterally have written down information that looks almost like my old chess notes about Brawl (and I did in Melee but just to a lesser extent). Melee I view as basically the same, except for most people it is more demanding physically, and the technical challenge can be an attraction to the game (actually this was one of my chief reasons for playing Melee competitively back in the day).

Both games have highly consistent winners, so saying anything along the lines of "not competitive" or "easy to get good at" is a joke, since it clearly ISN'T easy to get good at either game and if it were then why has it been 4 months since M2K lost a Brawl tournament (and why has he only lost 1 Melee tournament in the last year, and his loss comes to the same player that ended his previous 1st place streak).

The best way to tell if a game is competitive is simply asking if there are consistent winners. If there are consistent winners then that means that the better players win, which is all you need for a game to be competitive. Consistent winners means someone is doing something MORE RIGHT then the opponent and is therefor better. What that is and whether what they are doing is "dumb" or "annoying" or "not fun" is another story, but at the end of the day anyone who says either Smash game isn't competitive I just tell them to look at the consistent results and if it isn't competitive then go ahead and try and win.

 

[SynikaL]

The best way to tell if a game is competitive is simply asking if there are consistent winners.

More fundamental than this is simply a large pool of players with a competitive desire. Consistent winners simply tends to become a desired epiphenomenon in regards to the face of the competitive outlet, but is not necessary.

At this point, Melee players complaining about Brawl just seems immature to me. Grow up. You and your game are not important anymore. Deal with it.

Sorry if this is out of context, I haven't read much of the thread. I'm sure it is still comprised of the same tropes and general silliness that was so en vogue almost a year ago.


-Kimosabae

 

[AlphaZealot]

Agreed. Actually my criteria probably isn't all encompassing, because poker is **** competitive, and there are consistent winners, but not like we have in video games where people and teams can just dominate. So, a game can also not have completely consistent results but still be entirely competitive. For this point, your description of a large base of competitive minded people works best. Both Brawl and Melee fit this description.

 

[Hawks go Caw]

I always see it as like MvC2 compared to SFIII. MvC2 requires a ton more tech skill than any game I know of (maybe Guilty Gear requires more, but I'm not entirely familiar with the game). Wavedashing and triangle jumping; all the infinites; tons of other crap. Overall just crazy fast fingers and crazy accurate timing. It's fast paced; it's way offensive; it's all about rush down and pressure. Much like Melee.

SFIII requires significantly less tech skill. There's still things like kara throwing and parrying, but it's not as physically demanding as MvC2 is. It's much more defensive/punishment; read and react. It's much slower paced, but this allows for more thinking, strategy, and predition. Both games are still awesome in their own ways. To say SFIII sucks because it has less tech skill is dumb.

SRK probably laughs at the entire Smash community. So what?

Also, the Smash community is super cool. You'll meet a **** every now and again, but not nearly the same as SRK. Pokemon forums are the worst though. Every single one of those people are so elitist. And over Pokemon of all things.

 

[Dogysamich]

SRK probably laughs at the entire Smash community. So what?

Also, the Smash community is super cool. You'll meet a **** every now and again, but not nearly the same as SRK. Pokemon forums are the worst though. Every single one of those people are so elitist. And over Pokemon of all things.

Wow, that's a relative statement.

 

[Zip.]

But you can't force your opinion on someone. That's the whole problem with this argument. People on both sides think that they are in the right, but they are both terribly wrong.

What if they don't want to play Melee? What if they don't want to play Brawl? Why must you try to change someone's opinion, and flame them if they don't?

And most importantly: Why can't we just be one big, happy community with everyone doing what they want to do?

Correct, Close topic nao pl0x..

 

[AfroQT]

Alphazealot just layed down the law.
What a man.

And i LOL at saying melee isnt a good game competitively.
IF its NOT guilty gear or SF4 it CLEARLY is not good to play competitively.
What horrible logic.

 

[Mike G]

Yeah, AZ is a beast!




I guess Kye is OK too LOL


sometimes people let thier opinions get the best of them :/

 

[Gindler]

without brawl i wouldnt have gotten into melee....

Same here, but I feel like it's too late for me to be saved

 

[Zoro]

no no brawl is garbage

 

[Moses.]

I love you AlphaZealot.

 

[ph00tbag]

Some day, I want to give Alpha Zealot a hug.

Because he's a neat guy.

 

[exarch]

Actually, I'm pretty sure melee players complain about brawl mostly to annoy brawl players.

At least, that's why I do it.

BARWL SUXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

 

[AlphaZealot]

Actually, I'm pretty sure melee players complain about brawl mostly to annoy brawl players.

At least, that's why I do it.

BARWL SUXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

You heard it here first folks, Melee players are jerks.

Sad though, Melee players didn't use to be, because if you are oldschool enough (2002/2003/2004) you had to deal with the traditional fighting game community doing the same thing to Smash players. Actually, they still do the same stuff, they have simply backed off because they can't compete with Smash numbers and its a discussion that grew old.

I thought it was annoying when I played Melee that 2d fighters said my game sucked, and now its almost ironic that Melee players treat Brawl players the same way. People should be left to do what they want without having some 3rd critique what they enjoy.

Also I <3 Mike G. Miss you mangz.

 

[Vijin]

They didn't used to be because brawl wasn't out stealing that melee thunder. MVC2, Street Fighter, etc. had nothing to do with the melee scene. So they don't like our game. So they say it isn't a valid fighting game. But who cares? The massive tournament scene proved otherwise, and that's all that really mattered. Because of brawl, the amount of melee tournaments has dropped. Like Gigabits for example used to have melee every month. But now it's every other month. At one point they would have brawl 2 months in a row, and then a melee tournament. So now you've got a smash scene that's been split in half. Most places do more brawl than melee now. Just turns out that it's the brawl players who are taking the brunt of melee-player frustration.
I personally don't care. if If feel like it I'll go to a brawl tournament just to play some melee and chill. But if people are wondering why so much hostility is going towards brawl or brawl players, that might just have something to do with it.

 

[AfroQT]

You heard it here first folks, Melee players are jerks.

Sad though, Melee players didn't use to be, because if you are oldschool enough (2002/2003/2004) you had to deal with the traditional fighting game community doing the same thing to Smash players. Actually, they still do the same stuff, they have simply backed off because they can't compete with Smash numbers and its a discussion that grew old.

I thought it was annoying when I played Melee that 2d fighters said my game sucked, and now its almost ironic that Melee players treat Brawl players the same way. People should be left to do what they want without having some 3rd critique what they enjoy.

Also I <3 Mike G. Miss you mangz.

This is literally the reason why i do not play 2d fighters competitively.
Like after playing brawl/melee, and going to tournaments WEEKLY, why would i want to play a game that has tournaments like....every 3 months? Seriously (atleast in FL), the scene is dead. There are no tourneys, i have to go OOS for a tourney, and even then thats once every few months (big tourneys like FR, EVO, SB). Whereas melee/brawl puts out the same numbers as those tourneys (as far as entrants per game), and has a local tourney like ...every week? With good numbers on those tourneys as well (in FL, it ranges everywhere between like 20 to 40 people at any given tourney....). To me all the other games seem like downgrades for competitively play. Not to mention nothing is as fun as melee to me. Or Snake in brawl (lololol).

 

[Toneh]

alphazealot ftw!
jeez i didnt realize it was that many brawl tournaments going on right now!
So many tournaments going on its too fun to miss

 

[Smith]

They're just reliving the past through rose colored glasses.

The melee boreds were just as ******** back then. There just wasn't a dissident faction division.

So the elite Melee people were always just the elite melee people. Instead of the Elite Melee people, the elite brawl people(who the elite melee people mock due to brawl being a joke to them) and the casuals on both sides.

Truth of the matter they're all douche bags trying to make their peice of the pie sound tastier then everyone elses.

Internet forums. Psh

I beileve this post won..

 

[PolMex23]

I beileve this post won..

yea he wrecked *** wit that post...

we should close this, Matt is right too.

I just dont like 2d community, halo, WoW or any other morpg or what ever,

they are all stupid usually...

The funny side is Marvel, though seemingly a hateful community, are actual really funny but just really loud an proud.

Some of them are stupid (dark prince) but most are cool.

 

[Hawks go Caw]

yea he wrecked *** wit that post...

we should close this, Matt is right too.

I just dont like 2d community, halo, WoW or any other morpg or what ever,

they are all stupid usually...

The funny side is Marvel, though seemingly a hateful community, are actual really funny but just really loud an proud.

Some of them are stupid (dark prince) but most are cool.

I know a lot of MvC2 people in person around the NO area, and they're all super nice even to a scrub like me. But on the forums it's all about talking trash.

And just as a note, 2D fighters don't need local tourneys and what not. They have arcades. That's where the competitive scene is.

 

[exarch]

You heard it here first folks, Melee players are jerks.

Gah! Someone FINALLY agrees with me!!
The truth is out! Exarch is a jerk! I knew it all along.
Thank you AZ for pointing out how insensitive he was being! He does that stuff all the time and people think he's joking, but I always knew he wasn't! Thank you for holding him accountable for his careless words!
I freaking hate that guy!!!

 

[Player-3]

Gah! Someone FINALLY agrees with me!!
The truth is out! Exarch is a jerk! I knew it all along.
Thank you AZ for pointing out how insensitive he was being! He does that stuff all the time and people think he's joking, but I always knew he wasn't! Thank you for holding him accountable for his careless words!
I freaking hate that guy!!!

I love that guy!
his sig is related to CAKE!

 

[Vijin]

Gah! Someone FINALLY agrees with me!!
The truth is out! Exarch is a jerk! I knew it all along.
Thank you AZ for pointing out how insensitive he was being! He does that stuff all the time and people think he's joking, but I always knew he wasn't! Thank you for holding him accountable for his careless words!
I freaking hate that guy!!!

JEES Exarch, WHY do you gotta be so mean? Don't you care how other people feel?!?!

EDIT; I remember one time at Gigabits, Exarch was watching a match while he standing in the isle. Someones girlfriend tried to get by and gave him mad attitude because he was IN HER WAY. Even Exarch mentioned how much of an *** he was to be standing in that isle!

 

[mkGmoney]

cheez-its are pretty good

this whole thread is a joke

 

[petey_did_it]

yeah i like cheez its.

people who h8 brawl are lookin for the wrong thing in it. what separates players in brawl is not so much tech skill but more so smarts and mind games (and meta knight ). players need to learn the gayness of the game and exploit the gayness of the game. thats what its about, and its actually not that bad of a result until it gets to ledge camping or infinites, both of which are in the process of ban. one appreciates a match in a different way that they appreciate a match of melee. the most rewarding thing in brawl is knowing that each time u hit someone, that means u have outsmarted him. ur constantly thinking in that game. constantly. sound boring? move on, i got no problem with it

i started playing melee recently and i love it. i had a hard time understanding the game mechanics and getting used to the change in playstyles, but i didnt drop it, call it gay, and move on. instead i took what the game had to offer, a fast paced, very technical game, which brawl does not focus on. im half decent now, i gave common tech moves down, and learning and mastering combos is addicting

basically, appreciate a game for what its focus is. if its different and it doesnt have the tech skill craze that u were looking for, i suppose u could skip it and call it gay, but u could also learn it and see what it really has to offer, then call it gay.

cheez-its are pretty **** good actually.
the original one's my fav....

 

[petey_did_it]

afro lets be serious the only reason u play brawl is EZ moneyz

 

[leafgreen386]

So has this thread gone far enough downhill that I can just come in here and randomly flame brawl, yet?

Gah! Someone FINALLY agrees with me!!
The truth is out! Exarch is a jerk! I knew it all along.
Thank you AZ for pointing out how insensitive he was being! He does that stuff all the time and people think he's joking, but I always knew he wasn't! Thank you for holding him accountable for his careless words!
I freaking hate that guy!!!

Yeah.

 

[Poltergust]

...Let's just close this thread. >_>