Canada [Jul 26, 2014] B.C. Brawl Monthlies - Back in business, now featuring Smash 64! (Burnaby, BC)

[omgwtfToph]

Hey, WA melee player here, just wanted to chime in on the wobbling situation and post some other random thoughts:

I don't think wobbling is BS at all lol. Considering non-separated IC's have numerous ways to absolutely destroy someone after getting a grab I don't think wobbling legality really influences the outcome (or should); if the non-IC's player is playing such that he's getting grabbed that often, he should be losing anyway.

And if wobbling being banned wasn't explicitly part of the ruleset I don't think there should have been a redo to be honest lol. But that said, if the tournament series has always had wobbling banned then I think a proposal to redo is a fair compromise. I think Violence handled the situation well.

That said, it's 2012 and the fact that there's still tension between the BC brawl and melee communities is absurd to me. It's absurd to me that a player entered PM with the express purpose of pissing people off, and it's absurd to me that the player in question was driven to that point in the first place (also, for what it's worth, especially after hanging out with 9B and Vinnie in Japan for 5 days, I'm 99% sure Brawl IC CG is significantly harder than wobbling LOL. although it probably isn't harder than some of the trickier IC CG's in Melee, though I don't know for certain). I feel like BC has a lot of trolls for some reason and maybe the scene would be bigger if those people kept to themselves a little more. But what do I know.

Oh yeah and Big D I don't really know you at all but sorry for cheering for Sion hella hard in you guys's PM set (if that bothered you) LOL. Sion is just my homie. <3 Hope Gimpy wasn't bothering you with the brawl bashing either.

edit: oh yeah and after watching PM at this tournament I think I'll probably enter it next time if it's there. Hope I get to meet some of you guys

 

[Captain L]

yussss PM is my thing looking forward to playing you in it

one more thing to clarify, dawson legit plays PM, it was melee that he entered to annoy people


I think the BC brawl and melee communities have definitely gotten a lot closer with eachother since the release of PM though

 

[michael_li]

think i get salty? wrong.................
at the end of the day it's just a video game. chill the **** out pple

 

[xXx-NoobKing-xXx]

Mike, you sometimes post stuff that is perceived to have malicious or offensive intent behind it. Please don't take offense to this as I am not trying to offend you.

 

[Arcansi]

That said, it's 2012 and the fact that there's still tension between the BC brawl and melee communities is absurd to me. It's absurd to me that a player entered PM with the express purpose of pissing people off, and it's absurd to me that the player in question was driven to that point in the first place (also, for what it's worth, especially after hanging out with 9B and Vinnie in Japan for 5 days, I'm 99% sure Brawl IC CG is significantly harder than wobbling LOL. although it probably isn't harder than some of the trickier IC CG's in Melee, though I don't know for certain). I feel like BC has a lot of trolls for some reason and maybe the scene would be bigger if those people kept to themselves a little more. But what do I know.

What I don't understand is how one can grasp the concept of trolling but not get why Big D did what he did.

As surely as trolling exists, it will progress to do worse and worse things, all in the name of fun. And as it is accepted by society, it will prosper in its own right.

The fact that there's a background for Big D to kinda go off of is only a possible rationale for rationalizing his actions.

he didn't enter to win he entered to piss people off with wobbling, as was clearly stated in his post lol. Not trying to drag this out but it was stated that the reason he entered to piss people off was because people were talking about how much harder it was to wobble in melee than CG in brawl and he just wanted to prove them wrong.

It is possible to both want to piss someone off and want to win.

 

[omgwtfToph]

No, I understand why Big D did what he did completely. I'm just saying that the community shouldn't have reached the point where someone would want to do that in the first place.

 

[Arcansi]

No, I understand why Big D did what he did completely. I'm just saying that the community shouldn't have reached the point where someone would want to do that in the first place.

So you fail to grasp what trolling is?

I mean, doing something wanting to make someone angry and be entertained by it is not a new or groundbreaking concept...

 

[omgwtfToph]

What are you talking about? No **** I know what trolling is LOL, and it's not a new concept. I'm saying that the absurd part to me is the fact that there's such a desire for each community (the BC Melee/Brawl communities) to troll each other in the first place. I would've thought Melee and Brawl would've moved beyond that by now.

I feel like I'm repeating myself.

 

[booshk]

Lmfao. Yeah ^

I have no idea why that last post by Arcansi was even made, lol
edit:

There's a fine line between trying to troll for fun, and being a ****head.

I mean, I could go to you while you're in the middle of playing a tournament match and pour water all over you, unplug your gamecube, smash your CRT with a bat, run away, and come back later only to say that I was trolling. Sorry, I feel like you're hiding behind the word "trolling" - the word shouldn't be used as an attempt to repudiate the consequences you're supposed to face.
I also have no context for this situation; these are just my two cents on recent posts, choose to take it as you will.



Miss you too brah, I'll try to make it out to the next tourny 8D

 

[omgwtfToph]

Dude booshk where you been, I miss yo ***

edit: Probably shouldn't get too off-topic or whatever in here hahah sorry guys

 

[T-block]

Uhh... guys, let's not use "pissing off", because that implies Big D's intent was more malicious than it actually was:

The only reason I learned to wobble was because people were trash talking about how easy it is to cg in brawl compared to how hard it was to wobble. I don't think anyone is going to make that comparison again, and if they do well.... Point is I went in wanting to make someone salty and I did. I beat someone on the PR, got my entry fee back, and I ended my melee tournament life on a win.

He got **** about ICs, so he entered to prove it wrong. Nothing wrong with that - and it's certainly not "pathetic".

I'm just confused about why nothing was done until after game 3. Was there no wobbling done in the first two games?

 

[Captain L]

don't worry about going off topic in this thread, it's a rare occurrence for it to actually stay on topic

side note I went for sushi with kevin at the tournament and it was excellent, far better than pizza and only 4 times the price! More people should go for non-pizza foods. Although I really only had time for it since brawl wasn't happening, usually I'd be playing 2 hours of ICs pika near the end of brawl tournaments


also I originally cared about making my 2000th post awesome but once I hit 1999 I realized I didn't care anymore

 

[Arcansi]

Dude booshk where you been, I miss yo ***

edit: Probably shouldn't get too off-topic or whatever in here hahah sorry guys

Don't worry about it. Thread doesn't really care all that much, from what I can tell.

What are you talking about? No **** I know what trolling is LOL, and it's not a new concept. I'm saying that the absurd part to me is the fact that there's such a desire for each community (the BC Melee/Brawl communities) to troll each other in the first place. I would've thought Melee and Brawl would've moved beyond that by now.

I feel like I'm repeating myself.

What I'm not getting is where you get that there's a desire for the Melee//Brawl communities to troll each other.

From what he's said, Big D just saw something trollable and then trolled it.

 

[Captain L]

arcansi I don't get why you're going on about this dawson's motives were made outrageously clear like 10 times

 

[Arcansi]

arcansi I don't get why you're going on about this dawson's motives were made outrageously clear like 10 times

Is there something that happened irl that I am not informed of?

Because I mean...

He got **** about ICs, so he entered to prove it wrong. Nothing wrong with that - and it's certainly not "pathetic".

 

[Captain L]

they should hack pokemon trainer to be pikachu lucario and jigglypuff

man if someone did that I'd pick up lucario just for kicks

switch should become pikachu's side b, lucario's down b, and jigglypuff's up b

I mean skull bash and sing are cool but I'd trade them for the ability to switch



actually I just had a really amazing idea if pokemon trainer hacking was possible


make a hack of PT with three different characters. They cannot switch (so they have their full movesets) and have no stamina, but automatically switch out between stocks. That way you get a 3 stock match between two people that features 6 different characters and like 5 different matchups

so like I choose Jigglypuff MK Pikachu and then I get 1 stock with each of them in that order oh man this would be a nutty side event

 

[Blue Yoshi]

I would love that SOOOOOOO much. I have even said several times to Victoria people that I wished they included a possiblility of switching characters between stocks. 3 stock games with 3 different characters would be amazing.

 

[The Iron Wolf]

Introducing Super Smash tag team for Smash 4!



Also, I wasn't ever aware of the...tensions...between the Melee and Brawl communities at this stage of Brawl's existence. The whole thing sounds stupid in retrospect. But who am I to say in the matter? Just my $.02

 

[Captain L]

I was thinking NvS3

 

[Captain L]

the animosity is very minor at this point, it used to be a lot more but I'm pretty sure that was mostly to do with clouderz

I bet there are chess players who hate on checkers

oh crap I saw H's edit and thought it was a new post so I didn't realize I was double posting, my bad

 

[The Iron Wolf]

LOL Clouderz.

Ah, 2008. Those were the days on WiFi...yep definitely.

 

[StarWaffle]

Only thing going through my mind for the last few pages

 

[| Big D |]

I learned to wobble to stop all the false comparisons between brawl ICs and melee ICs.

I didn't enter to make someone salty over wobbling, only have someone underestimate me.

I entered to see how far I could go utilizing it, as a means of using my knowledge of brawl to progress.

I get hate in every smash game I play, it's nothing new.

I don't think any less of any of you, it was a mistake and unfortunately I was the victim.

Eric handled it fairly well, however I don't want anyone disrespecting Daze. If it wasn't his tourney, the person running it should have checked the rule set that was posted. How was Daze supposed to know that wobbling was banned if it's an unspoken rule? The TO of a tourney determines what rule set is used. If Daze hosted a melee tourney with wobbling legal he has every right. Same with Violence running a wobbling banned tourney. Daze believed wobbling was legal, if he wasn't the TO then the TO should have posted the correct rule set, or at least checked it like I have.

I'm over it now, I played with Violence at the venue had some fun, things are cool between us.

Don't hate me because of this, don't hate Daze because of this, I don't hate melee players because of this.

 

[Blue Yoshi]

Hate Landon because of this. This is clearly all his fault. He set the entire disaster up himself the night before.




But seriously, I think we've talked about this enough. How about we change the subject to something a little more... happy (for want of a better word).



What are people planning on doing for Halloween on Wednesday? I'm spending it at the smash club (that actually now has 2 people that play brawl... though still low level, but better than nothing). Lots of people, me included, are bringing candy, which we're all sharing among each other.

 

[Alacion]

Wow at this drama that I didn't even cause.

Brawl bashing is completely not deserved.

BC's trolls need to stop trolling.

 

[Kantrip]

Hmm?

[COLLAPSE="Hmm?"][COLLAPSE="Hmm?"][COLLAPSE="Hmm?"][/COLLAPSE][/COLLAPSE][/COLLAPSE]

 

[Alacion]

Thank goodness for "quote."

But seriously, nobody really appreciates trolls so I think it's about time we all grow up.

 

[Kantrip]

Quoting that is probably more effort than clicking three times, I didn't even do a big chain.

 

[Arcansi]

But seriously, I think we've talked about this enough. How about we change the subject to something a little more... happy (for want of a better word).



What are people planning on doing for Halloween on Wednesday? I'm spending it at the smash club (that actually now has 2 people that play brawl... though still low level, but better than nothing). Lots of people, me included, are bringing candy, which we're all sharing among each other.

How is a topic which has the inability to actually get something useful out of it (we all just kinda say what we did) on its own (there is the possibility that someone finds something to do on halloween, but this is small relative to the possibility of gaining something out of the previous topic, assuming new info) better (happiness tends to be a measure of how good something is, just everything all jumbled up into one) than one where you can?

 

[Alacion]

Halloween is terrible. I hate pretending to like children wearing weird costumes, handing out candy each time the doorbell rings, and pretending to be happy for a whole night.

I agree with Landon in that more people should eat out because it's healthier and tastier than pizza though at a higher cost. Also, it gives us time to talk and get to know each other which doesn't happen when Peach crown smacks or when she gets shuttle looped.

 

[The Iron Wolf]

How is a topic which has the inability to actually get something useful out of it (we all just kinda say what we did) on its own (there is the possibility that someone finds something to do on halloween, but this is small relative to the possibility of gaining something out of the previous topic, assuming new info) better (happiness tends to be a measure of how good something is, just everything all jumbled up into one) than one where you can?

I had to read and re-read that about 3 times and I still don't understand what the hell you're saying.



:I

 

[Blue Yoshi]

Wow at this drama that I didn't even cause.

I actually did have part of one of my posts say something along the lines of "come on guys, seriously? You're creating drama, and Kev isn't even involved in it at all?" or something along those lines, but I thought it could have been interpreted as mean, so I removed it. But since you said it yourself, I guess it's fine I mention it?



Anyways, I'm not dressing up, or giving out candy, or anything else like that. I'm just generally hanging out with a large group of friends playing Video games, card games, whatever other games, and... essentially having a candy potluck.

Halloween doesn't require you to dress up or anything else like that.

Anyways, I was simply trying to change the conversation to something that wasn't related to the drama we were talking about, so... if people are against talking about halloween, then suggest another topic.

 

[NeeBee]

////////::

 

[Violence]

I feel like I need to explain myself.

I was first asked about wobbling during pools. I recall Rusty Shacklefurd showing off his wobbling in a friendly maybe a year ago, and I asked offhand if wobbling was legal at the tournament.

I've had the unique experience of being part of the wobbling ruleset discussion in multiple regions. In Northern Ohio, when I was in college, my friend, a Sheik main, learned to wobble by listening to "Kyle's Mom is a Big Fat *****," which has a bpm that lines up perfectly with the wobbling rhythm. In tournament, in matchups that were hard for him, he simply learned grab gimmicks and wobbled his way into 2nd-3rd place(Can't beat Vidjogamer, a top level Peach at the time). I understood the frustration(though I do understand the just get better mentality, and though it was getting him free wins against people he couldn't normally beat, it was not by any stretch unbeatable), and soon, because of him, wobbling was banned in the Central and Northern Ohio area.

Moved back to Norcal. Wobbling was allowed in locals, just for experimentation, to see if any ridiculous IC would try to wobble, because I think people were kind of curious to see how good it was. I believe that in some tournament series, it was legal, and then in some others, it wasn't(Except for the Boback clause, Boback is allowed to wobble). It really depended on the TO, afaik. The general consensus was that it wasn't broken, and you just had to not get grabbed.

Came up to BC, and when Rusty showed his wobbling, it was kinda nostalgic, so I wondered what this region's rule on wobbling was. People said it wasn't allowed, the general attitude was that it was dumb.

I understood the feeling, and I remembered it when BigD's opponent asked about it in the match.

I spoke from memory, that wobbling was illegal. I thought BC had a consistent ruleset, and whenever changes were made, such as our stagelist to reflect FC stages so that our traveling players could get more experience with it, we would be vocal about it. As such, I did not think that anything had changed.

Bracket began, and Dazrin came up to me and said that he wanted to allow wobbling. I took this to mean that he intended on making wobbling legal from the start, and he mentioned that it only affected one player. I didn't want to go back on my decision about wobbling, but Dazrin posted the thread for the tournament, so I assumed that he also posted the rules on it. BigD also mentioned that he had checked with Dazrin before the tournament, so I thought it was wrong. I was the tournament host, my responsibility was to make sure things ran on time, and I sacrificed entering Melee singles to do it. Among other things, I had assumed that Dazrin was clear on the ruleset that was agreed upon for the tournament.

So, I told BigD that he could wobble.

I watched the last match of that set, Michael was shielding in spots where he definitely shouldn't have, and as a result, BigD got plenty of grabs. 7 wobbles in total, as far as I could count.

I felt bad for Mike, but that's what happens when wobbling is legal and you let yourself get grabbed. He has a tough time against IC's that use normal chain grabs like Rusty too, so losing to BigD was not out of the question, as long as wobbling was allowed.

Adam Brown came and talked to me, and explained to me that wobbling has never been legal in BC, for a long, long time. I explained this to Daz, and he admitted that he hadn't really considered it in the rules when he made the thread. The thread itself, if you look, has no mention of wobbling in the rules, and as such is left to the TO's discretion. BigD had done the right thing by asking Daz before he entered what the policy was on wobbling, and Daz and I had given him two opposite answers. This is nothing more than a dismal failure on our part, and for that, I apologize.

As such, the complaints from Adam were not unwarranted, the precedent has been set in the past that wobbling was illegal, and I had also made this ruling earlier in the day. I really didn't want to have to ask for this, but now that I was sure that Daz hadn't said anything official on wobbling in the thread, and that he was speculating on the ruleset, just like I was, I talked with him, and we decided to ask BigD to replay his match without wobbling. BigD mentioned that he didn't want to continue to play, and that he didn't want to enter, if wobbling was banned. I apologized, and said that if he refused to play, that I would be treating it as a concession.

And that was that, he stood up and left with Landon. Landon stopped them, and told me that in his opinion, Dawson should get his entry fee back. I believed that this was the least I could do.

As a TO, I am completely and utterly against dipping into the pot for any reason. The prize money part of the tournament's integrity, and I never want to remove money from it for reasons other than accounting mistakes.

As such, the $10 I refunded Dawson were from my own pocket. Consider it my own personal apology. When I decided not to enter singles, I made my mind up to at least make the tournament a memorable and enjoyable experience for everyone, and that clearly just ended for Dawson.

I hope you guys will not take this as a strike against the Melee community. I was so focused on logistics, timing, and making sure matches were being played on time, that I did not clarify a rule that was clearly very important, and that cost us one of our entrants. This mistake won't be happening again, and I hope you will continue to join us for Melee/P:M events in the future.

whoosh

 

[traffic.]

to erryone: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1EY7lYRneHc

Everything that isn't playing games for fun and being awesome: ^^


edit- O BY WAY THERES SWEARS

 

[traffic.]

Halloween is terrible. I hate pretending to like children wearing weird costumes, handing out candy each time the doorbell rings, and pretending to be happy for a whole night.

Has it occured to you that there are more activities available on halloween other than being my mom.

 

[traffic.]

What I'm not getting is where you get that there's a desire for the Melee//Brawl communities to troll each other.

Could be all the trolling and ****-talking that exists between the BC Melee and Brawl communities.

 

[Yakal]

I wouldn't say there's **** talking...more like dumb things that people say and dumb things that happen

the brawl dudes i've gotten to know are all tight

 

[Blue Yoshi]

Violence, given the circumstances, you handled the situation very well, and we all agree on that (at least I think we do). Dawson even said himself that for what it's worth, he was satisfied with the outcome (though I don't know if he will enter melee again, from what I remember). Wobbling is a controversial technique, which usually is up to the TO, but due to the mis-communication, different sides were told different things, and everything went wrong. No one person is to blame. However, for now on, it's best to make sure that all rules, if possible, be stated beforehand, and if a problem like this occurs again (e.g. a rule that was not clarified), have multiple people involved in the discussion, and have the result said to everyone (maybe one person will use it, but anyone who faces him is affected, and this could be anyone).

As far as the melee hate being raised over this tournament, I don't think anyone is mad at anyone because of this mis-communication. However, other incidents did occur during the tournament (e.g. livestream bashing of brawl, according to a few people, among other things), which is why some people are not entirely impressed of certain members of the melee community. Sure, the wobbling mis-communication may have been annoying to several people, but that alone is not what caused some friction.

So, once again, Violence, what happened happened. Under the circumstances given to you, you took one of the best courses of actions you could have taken. Dawson ended up on the wrong side of the coin, but it's just how it turned out. We're not mad at you, we're not mad at Daz, if anything, some people may be disappointed, but that's it. The melee hate that seems to exist is coming from other sources, not from this incident. So don't worry about it.

 

[Jason!]

So what are peoples plans for Halloween this year? ;O